Dylan Thomas-The newest "sire of sires"

hope your right BoxFresh, I have always liked him. Long way to go to replace Montjeu though.

whos his best so far?

Furners Green the best so far?

Very much doubts about Dylan Thomas tbh. Yet to produce something exciting.

Boxfresh,To describe Dylan Thomas as 'the perfect replacement' for Montjeu is nothing short of fanciful at the very least.what ever has he shown so far that has given you such faith?I'm really not convinced at all he is ever going to get 1 Epsom derby winner let alone a plethora of them.Personally I'd think its more likely he will get a plethora of jump winners poss' a Gold cup winner.....a Cheltenham one at that too!
Well you did ask.By the way do you work in Coolmore's nomination dept'?

I've considered him, for his professionalism in a lump of a package that ought to be better than as a first season set of results, but chickened out, as I can't wait the extra year or 2 that I think his runners will need.

Unfortunately my experience of owning one has been a disaster,never ran as a 2yo but after first run on the track at Wolves recently my jockey told me to get rid right away,oh well such is life. Thought DT was a marvellous racehorse though and I wish him well at Stud,unfortunately not with the one I had though!!

Believe me folks,he will become a top sire,they need time,their useless at 2,if people are prepared to be patient with them they will be duly rewarded,as for prima suggesting he'll sire Gold Cup horses,what a silly thing to say,just because your're opinion of him is totally different to mine does not mean you start patronising people,Childish behaviour,
i suggest you pop along to the Horse Racing or Football section if thats whats you're into sunshine.

BoxFresh, I have been a supporter of DT on this forum in the past likening him to High Chapperal in that he is a slow starter that may get better as thay get older. I still hope thats the case. His Derby trial stakes winner is gelding and I notice his runner in the maiden today is a gelding, which I think is a dodgy sign for him. The trial stakes winner stayed on very strong in soft going at ascot and I wouldn't be suprised if he ends up over extended trips. Even if he wasn't gelded he is a 100/1 shot for any Derby. Only Furner Green an O'brien home bred is showing any real class at the moment from a large book when he stood for 35k. He should be doing a bit better by now to be honest.

I don't think PD was being patronising, he has always thought that DT will only be a national hunt stallion. I hope he is wrong but as it stands he is a better bet to sire a good Cheltenham winner than a Derby winner. The comment about you working for Coolmore was only banter.(You dont, do you?)

Gosh. I wasn't going to get into this thread as I couldn't really believe even you totally believed that hyperbole on Dylan Thomas Boxfresh. Anyway, back you've come to re-iterate and with a little malice thrown in so here I am.

Montjeu came up with top class 2yo's from the off. Dylan Thomas hasn't.
Montjeu had 2 Derby winners and a Derby 2nd in his 1st crop. Dylan Thomas will not.
Montjeu started at a fee of 30000 punts and was not knocked down in the rush. Dylan Thomas started at 50000 euros and was. Geldings are not a nice result when your production costs have been that high but at least they are ready for the winter game.

Dylan Thomas's profile will improve for sure but he is never going to be in the same league as Montjeu. Only Galileo gets to occupy that spot.

Passion's great Boxfresh, use it wisely.

Hi Boxfresh,

I wouldnt have a pop at PD, I always find his really honest comments/opinions on this particular forum, fascinating and informative,sometimes controversial but always thought provoking. I really think when you have regular contributors such as PD/POTM/TRUEHONCHO/YERMA and  others this is easily the most enjoyable forum with no nastiness here,so please no more bitching as you will find yourself in the minority here. PD speaks like the rest here as they see it,fair play to them!!

Interesting your joining date also???

He started off at 50k euros he is now 12.5k euros. He covered some very good mares (134) in his first season but only two of his first crop got a Racing Post rating of over 100. Furners Green won a 4 runner G.3, however more significantly he is out of a top class producing mare. Dylan Thomas has shown very little so far to be getting excited.

Wow,plenty of bites since last night,pleasing

midas get you're tongue out of his ass ffs,brown nosing at its best right there,

Sycophant

I think Pot M has summed up perfectly the facts regarding Dylan Thomas and Montjeu,my thoughts precisely I couldn't of put it better myself.Boxfresh I'm never patronising in my replys forthright maybe but you did ask for our views and I gave mine.However I'm not going to be drawn into an argument with you over this and I think the point raised by Midas7 regarding your starting date speaks volumes.....if your games fishing then cast again as this wise old fish isn't biting.

to my friends on here thanks for the support but lets leave this thread its going nowhere!

havent really liked this horse either but maybe he will sire better as they get older but whats the forum thing dt or dom (duke of marmalade)?.will they both be poor/average danehill sons or do you thing one will come through.dom didnt win a group one till he was 4 so his race record wasnt as good as dt and they both carried there heads quite high.i will find it hard too see either making a big impression.

Well BoxF, the market doesnt want them at all so if you have the courage of your extremely strongly held convictions, you should by a few.  I've done two yearlings (including a good selling one) and I didnt like them.  They looked like stores but you never know.  Speaking of coolmore / Montjeu - I'd be raging (if I'd just had a mare covered) to hear the kiwis are getting Pour Moi for 1/3 off!

but in fairness they have to export a lot of lamb to finance the fee. (sorry any Kiwi's I know you do other things than breed sheep!!)

How can a horse who is going to stud in a country for the very first time be standing at a 'reduced' fee? You can only reduce something that has previously cost more can you not? I don't see Coolmore being delighted with that gramatically incorrect headline.

With regard to the disparity between Antipodean stud fees and those up here, Hello? they never have been the same to the best of my knowledge. I don't see the Aussies moaning about the Europeans only having to pay 35k euros for Fastnet Rock.

If it's 'bites' you're into, boxFresh, then let me have chomp! You're talking rubbish

That RP report on Pour Moi is factually incorrect.

He's standing for $18k not $20k.

http://windsorparkstud.webelement.co.nz/Stallions/PourMoi.aspx

Compares well with Cape Blanco(20k), Makfi (27.5k), Mastercraftsman (20k), Rip Van Winkle (22k) who are all standing in the locality.

That RP report on Pour Moi is factually incorrect.

He's standing for $18k not $20k.

http://windsorparkstud.webelement.co.nz/Stallions/PourMoi.aspx

Compares well with Cape Blanco(20k), Makfi (27.5k), Mastercraftsman (20k), Rip Van Winkle (22k) who are all standing in the locality.

Bill Oppenheim ‏ @billoppenheim  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Dylan Thomas leads Euro 2nd-crop sires in 2012 earnings over Stormy River. Big move today by Manduro into 4th with Vanteaux wnr. Dutch Art 3

Read it and weap,so much for the so called "Experts" on here.
Clueless.

"Dylan Thomas leads Euro 2nd-crop sires in 2012 earnings"

Ok, but how does that make him "the newest sire of sires" as per your original postulation?

Dylan Thomas,

2010 Yearling median £24,142 (72 catalogued against a covering fee of EUR50k)

2011 Yearling median £15,000 (42 catalogued against a covering fee of EUR 35K)

Furner Green the only Group winner from his first crop.

Even with Coolmore buying their own yearlings to bolster the ledger, those figures are a disaster. If you use Dylan Thomas, you go broke. I can only assume BoxFresh likes him, but has never sent a mare to him !

I think BoxFresh is wrong. Teofilo is above him.

I think we may have misinterpreted BoxFresh too.

King of kings is a ruler of all
Best Of the Bests is best of all (neither that good as stallions mind) but

Sire of Sires means the best granddad not the best sire of all

Bill Oppenheim ‏ @billoppenheim
Dylan Thomas - 6 maiden/Cond. race wnrs 9 1/2f.+ since last Wed., now # 1 EU 2nd-crop sire 2012. Tomorrow's column at http://www.thetdn.com.
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oh dear,the "experts" really getting shown up here,
Guessers.

this is a bad joke, to be a sire of sires he must have a son at stud who in turn is producing good racehorses. at the moment dylan is a fair bit dissapointing but will be allowed time to see hooo his 1st two crops fair as 4year olds, without a group1 winner at this stage he'll be sold onto japan with poor old footsteps,

BoxFresh you are right, I was looking at the British stats. However, the European ones are not good for DT. With such a poor winners to runners rate, he wont be at the top of that list for long. His highest earner is a gelding and there are horses not far below him with far better horses running for them.

I am certainly no bloodstock expert but have studied advanced calculas with Heinz Wolff and have post grad Econometrics. I can assure you that using this particular set of stats to further the DT cause is just plain daft.

Just noticed that an anagram of Boxfresh is fox herbs. I think he must have been smoking some herbs of a very different variety.......

Why would you reckon things have gone so spectacularly wrong with him lads, is it as mentioned that it is just best to avoid staying sons of Danehill? I've heard it said here that sons who are typical of their sire are often the ones who go on to do best at stud. I thought DT would do very well myself given his toughness, race record and good lucks, even though he didn't reach his peak till 4, he was still very unlucky in the Derby and I reckon winning an Arc at 4 giving weight is the sign of a real good horse these days. He always struck me as a real Galloping staying type of middle distance horse and it could be that his progeny do better at 1m6f plus or even...... over sticks. I thought he was a very handsome horse to look at so I'm surprised breeders are making such losses with him, not 50 to 12 suggests that he won't be around too much longer.

I could see a lot of his progeny ending up in Hong Kong where the rattling fast ground and the fact that owners are buying to race will help him too.

neil d, I don't really want to get into this one as I am not sure Boxfresh has truely disappeared and I have no desire to correspond with him. However if we knew why they succeeded and why they failed we'd all be rich

Good evening all you experts on here,i'll try not say anything that potentialmillionaire doesn't agree with as he'll just throw his toys out of his pram again,
But Surely even this bluffer can admit i was right in my main assessment of Dylan,
it may kill him to admit it but i said Dylan Thomas' progeny at 2 are useless,They clearly improve massively with age just like the
great Horse himself,i think the facts back me up on that

Rip Furners Green you ran you're little heart out fella,
Just goes to prove how tough these DT progeny are becomming as they progress with age
Dead Heating for 3rd in a Group 1 not to be sniffed at.

A real shame to see that happening,from a bad position he ran a super race,don't know where that puts DT as I assume Furners to be his best so far,shame

BoxFresh in fairness to you, they are coming better with age.

Devotion came 2nd Group 3 and prob could have won bar Greeness
Tower Rock very genuine in the Derrinstown 2nd again
Furners Green French Guineas Winner bar rotten luck post and pre race.

Could have been 2 Classic Winners in as many weeks for Coolmores New Sires. Tannery only last week as well.

Screaming a young Montjeu(not Montjeu as I he wont be as good as him) but looks like a Montjeu type. Slow progression and bloom as a 3yr old.

Watch out for the Hannon horse in Saturday's Newbury maiden, he is their 'Derby horse if they have one' apparently.

yes ruby you seem to know what you're talking about mate,He's gonna be a great sire,maybe sire of sires was a bit far fetched,
But the older his progeny get the better they get,that is now becomming a Fact

Very sad about Furner's Green. Interesting to note his broodmare sire, what do I say about him and what he brings to a horse...?

Furners Green looked a real miler, what a shame indeed, he could have changed perceptions to a degree maybe.

breeding is a gamble but it loooks like you would be better spending your nomination fees on lottery tickets than sending a mare to dylan thomas.

Tannery again tonight

Athens 2nd

Just seen this photo on the Coolmore facebook page and it reminded me of this thread.

[   This image is no longer available.   ]

Whilst "sire of sires" is a ridiculous thing to say about DT,He's not doing too badly,He's surprised me tbh.
Long may it continue,Dylan was one of my Favourite horses.

yes but actually , his runners where at a fee of 50 000  euros !!!

i want to see the second and third generations

i really think, it will be disappointed, in my opinion