Dick Turpin to stand for £7000

although i initially thought this would be the ballpark fee for him, i now think its too high. I also think Showcasing and Sakhees Secret are too high.

I note they are brave enough to promote Dick Turpin with a current photo. I'm not sure I would be - but I suspect he probably will let down well. He was a good racehorse with a high rating and he won plenty of races so perhaps I have been a little tough on him. If you breed a really nice colt by him thae I expect 7k will look cheap but on the other hand I don't see many fillies getting out alive.

Bahamian Bounty is exposed now, big time, so his fee needs to keep slipping.

I cannot see why Whitsbury should drop the fee of a champion sprinter who has got the marketplace happy below 4500.
I don't struggle with Showcasing either, but that is just a personal opinion.

I agree PM. In fact, Sakhee's Secret had a decent enough yearling average at the sales (for quite a few offered too) and I was a little surprised to see any kind of reduction. But good for Whitsbury for sticking their neck out.

Agree with you Pot M, £7000 for Dick Turpin would look awefully high if you got a filly!

Think your being a bit tough Truehoncho. SSecret couldnt have done much more at the sales than he did. Would rather him at his price that DTurpin at his.

Still a fan of BBounty tho.

SS went to stud at 6.5k. Unless you think this was very cheap then 5.5k for 4th season doesn't offer much value. Maybe Showcasing isn't so bad but I still think it's not a great incentive to use a second season value type stallion.

I like both of these but as the market gives such a premium to first season sire foals and yearlings I would like them cheaper. Monsieur Bond is 5k and proven and there are others in this bracket who's fees havent been announced yet that would be big competition for SS and Showcasing. On a forum that is commercially minded I'm suprised those prices are being supported.

PotM, I know how keen you are on first season sires, I would be suprised if you were tempted by a 4th season sire with just a 15% discount on their 1st season fee.

truehoncho, I'll thank you to not expose my galloping hypocrisy on here

I don't like to use 2nd season sires much but I will do. However 4th season is a real no no in almost all circumstances so for me to pontificate on whether a 4th year fee is good value is probably a bit rich!
As you say, if they were really cheap perhaps I would be more tempted too.

I have a mare in foal to S.S (long story) and I'm not particularly happy with that, but as we've said, some cofort to be taken from the yrlg figures.

i think the point to consider with 3rd and 4th season stallions is that most stallion will fail, and if your shopping at the value end even more of them will fail. If you use them in the 3rd or 4th season it doesn't matter how good they were, how much their yearlings sold for or anything else because you can't sell until they are proven or failed. So decide on the % you think fail and divide the first season price by that and that should give you a ballpark figure of value. If you think only 15% fail then SS is good value.

I like using them because as a small breeder on a small budget I am looking to get lucky. Its just a punt, but it has to be cheap. The risk should give me a chance of getting a better class of stallion than i can afford, but with only a 15% discount it doesn't.

truehoncho, thank goodness we all have different opinions but for me your point is a bit too simplistic.

Some studs choose to charge absolute top whack for their new stallions in their first year (Ballylinch?) and then expect to reduce this significantly later on. Whilst others take a view that they set a good value price to begin with, so they dont have to keep chopping the price later on. So your back of the **** packet calculation is subjective to the stallion and the stud.

I tend to look more at the type of yearlings produced by a 4th season sire, their median price, and the sort of trainers that have bought them.

However, in a more general sense, i do see what you are saying about gambling on stallions in 3rd and 4th year. i just think some are more calculated gambles than others....

i didnt know f ag packet was a rude word!

Wilycayote,we dont disagree that much. Of course i was being a bit simplistic to try and get the point across and I agree there are other factors. I did say that if you thought SS was cheap starting off then you may justify the 4th season fee. However, i think the stud keepers have big incentives to price them high in their first season. Other than the income generated they also will benifit from a better class of mare.

When you calculate the gamble apply some risk assessment theory that any other business would. You just cant get away from the amount of failures there are, just look at this years list. How many of them would you say will add value to this years yearlings let alone be worth a fee increase? and plenty of them sold well as yearlings and have stock with the top trainers.

Pastoral Pursuits at 6.5k is laughable - if you need evidence..there were 15 of his in the last Donny yearling sale. A 2011 median of under £10k.  Staggeringly bad value.  Whitsbury seem alone in being on the money with their stallions.  The Irish appear to have missed the fact the country is bankrupt.  Hopefully Darley & Cheveley Park get it right.

Totally agree yer ma
Think there are plenty of more solid stallions in and around his price bracket. Feel he should be closer to 4.5k mark. Still, I'm more likely to be sending him a mare than DTurpin.

July cup winning son of BBounty V Jean Prat winner by Arakan, no contest.

Do you not think Wily that with 3 crops of racing age under his belt P P will not be judged on his race record and sire much these days?

If one uses him in 2012 then your 1st opportunity to sell (as a foal) there will be 5 crops of (temperamental?) runners hanging around.

The pull of 1st season power - even that by an Arakan horse - seems to be a better bet than that to me.
Do you breed to race?