Bloodstock & Breeding
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20 Oct 11
09:26
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18 Feb 07
I can reveal.
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Replies: 18
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JM
any idea of fee? |
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Not yet truehoncho. How would you price him? Decent on the track, but don't really like his pedigree. Think they might be better off marketing him as a grandson of Nureyev rather than a son of Arakan though?
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he was a good colt that won early and a G2 as a 2yo. I like hime and agree that being a grandson of Nureyev is the way to promote him. For what its worth, I think he will get decent stock given the right opportunities. I have a mare closely related to Pivotal and would suit him but I think he may be out of my range, I guess somewhere around 8-10k. I will wait for third season and take my chance for about 4k. do you think I'm close? I think if he was going to get a higher fee he would have gone somewhere more upmarket.
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Personally I think 8-10K would be too much (although I had in my mind Dream Ahead at a top-price of 15K, so what do I know?!). I'd think DT should be no more than 6-7.5K
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i hope your right. Very cheap for such a good class performer even with a light page. I think at 6/7k he will get a lot of mares.
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Actually having had a closer look at it I think you are right JM. I think my liking of the horse led me to over price him. All in all 6/7k seems right. I still think he will be good value at that and due to connections he will be commercial enough.
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Gosh. Questionable horse at a questionable venue.
All the pedigree problems of Cockney Rebel, without the talent. Doesn't take a crystal ball to foresee an uphill battle. Still, if he's a great looking horse he might be worth a punt as the 1st seasoners are looking thin on the ground. I cannot see a fee of over 6k and I wouldn't consider him a safeish punt over 4.5. |
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i think a key difference between DT and CC is the connections. If you get a decent DT yearling you should sell well.
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I don't understand the point on Dick Turpin's connections ? Phil Cunningham has put plenty of mares in foal to Cockney Rebel in an attempt to support him. Do you really think the Doyles will support Dick Turpin to the point of dictating his future ? You need to get decent mares to him first.
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i think that hannon and co will buy decent stock from him, which will encourage owners of better mares to use him. also good 2yo's at hannons will have a chance of promoting DT.
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Whilst he was at hannons they hardly supported him did they. He only ran 2nd in the 2000G because the owner rightly insisted on running there. Thru out his 3 year old campaign he had to play 2nd fiddle to CC at hannons so not sure how hannon and co. are going to be massively supporting him now at stud. Cant see Hannon/Doyle having any sentiment if he looks like getting early 2 yr old types im sure they will buy them if not they wont same as any other stallion.
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Cant see it myself. Not that interested at 4-5k even. He didnt make 30k as a yearling so doubt he's stunning but I could be wrong. Hannon / Doyles buy a lot of horses but with acclamations, paco boy, canford cliffs, Zebedee, Libourne Lad...not going to be able to support them all. Getting a bit itchy about next year - really want to stay in UK but might be a struggle.
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I know it's nice to think about the Hannon purchasing power, but really with these stallions covering 120, 150 or even more, it's just not realistic to count on any one buyer. They'll shop around to suit themselves anyway and their 'type' is their motive before sire or dam considerations.
I have yet to start a long list - some fees would be nice to crystallise thinking! |
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some of you guys must be on crack!
Hannon has more new stallions going to stud over the last two years than any other trainer. The extent to which he can support each one is tiny relative to the number of average foals that the likes of DT will be churning out. even if he is 4k I will give him a miss. Arakan ex Sharrood mare is not going to turn buyers on when yearlings turn up at the sales in 3 years time. |
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Sakhee ex Secreto mare worked okay this sales season Wily!
Gorgeous foals will turn them on wherever they come from! I'm with you though obviously on this one. But you never can tell. . .  |
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Wilycayote
Whatever I'm on but I'm sureif it were crack it would make my Mrs look better! I agree that hannon and co will not buy average stock. If you have average stock which most do, you will be scraping round for any bids no matter what the stallion is in this bracket. There are no stallions in this price bracket that are going to make you a profit of any sort with an average one. Thats how it is and probably as it should be. Why on earth should anyone be entitled to make money off an average yearling from a cheap stallion? That would be farming rather than thoroughbred breeding. My opinion is that have you have a decent one, by which I mean one of his better ones you will have the chance that they will be interested in it amd therfore may get a premium on it. They buy a lot of yearlings and I don't beleive that they would not look at a nice one out of a stallion they have done so well with. I am certainly not suggesting that this is the reason you should use him, I already said that I like him, I'm sure not everyone will. It was just a comment regarding why he may be more popular than Cockney Rebel. |
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Good point PotM, the Sakhees Secrets did fly off the shelves because they looked racy.
Don't know why I'm so uncomfortable witH DT. Perhaps coz he won his group 1s in France and Italy, but also because I cannot think of a successful stallion that was trained by Hannon. He is a genius and gets every drop of their talent, whilst others don't. |
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I know why I'm uncomfortable with him, although I quite like the family. It's modest, but has thrown up some nice fast horses for the Mcenerys in recent times.
The 'foreignness' of his form is a problem and Arakan is a shocker for sure. |