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Prima Donna
10 Mar 11 20:11
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Date Joined: 29 Apr 09
| Topic/replies: 4,152 | Blogger: Prima Donna's blog
Just wondering I understand they are just short of his target of 130 mares,reckon we will see more of these classy two year old's retiring from now on bit like our friend Zebedee.

One other thing if Dream Ahead went to stud now would he hold commercial appeal at say 5k euros.
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Report potentialmillionaire March 10, 2011 9:49 PM GMT
I'm interested to know how all these much of a muchness types are going.

I suppose Arcano is full, Showcasing will get there and Approve will too? Are Zebedee and Vale of York in similar boats? As you know, I am using Showcasing and he is the one that really appealed to me but that's a bit crazy perhaps as there really can't be much in it. Can there?

I think Dream Ahead would need to be some looker to get the juices flowing. Diktat doesn't have much by way of va va voom to add to the mix. I think I would hope for him to train on, develop a profile like Paco Boy/Canford Cliffs etc. which could then help him command a spicier fee.

I think a non trained on or injured 2yo always has a strong chance of being forgotten and Diktat only brings a big fat nothing to re-hang your hat on.
Report RipVanWinkle March 10, 2011 10:05 PM GMT
Of the above we're only using Arcano very surprised that Approve got such a large book i never really liked him he because of the fact he was with Haggas who i dont rate as a trainer at all nothing to do with the horse at all, everything must be factored in when choosing a stallion[smiley:crazy]

Will Canford Cliffs be supported by Forum posters on retirement?
Report Wilycayote March 11, 2011 8:57 AM GMT
re. Approve. I find it difficult to get a handle on a sprinter out of a sadlers wells mare.

Would love to use Canford Cliffs.
Report Prima Donna March 11, 2011 1:38 PM GMT
It never seems to amaze us all just how the hell do these sorts seem to attract in terms of book sizes,I too was surprised Approve was close to 130,reckon all of this sort will get around the same amount of mares.
Gay O'Callaghan is for me the down side and not William Haggas,I never find Gay as easy as Tony to deal with,Gay always gives you the impression he's going to explode he never seems to take things slowly or in his stride,but I do hope they gain success with this new stallion,deals as ever are available but not as much as you'd think.
Don't think Diktat is that great myself he must hold dream ahead back a bit but saying that he's not been a total disaster either and he does come from a great family,imo like most of theirs Darley ruined his chances a bit.
If and when Canford Cliffs does go to stud yes we will send him some,I'm looking forward to seeing him run this term,would you send him a few Rip Van?
Oasis Dream is a sprinter out of a Dancing Brave mare who is from a Stout-ish family all class mind,that's a factor in that theory and maybe the difference with Approve being overall any use.
Report yer ma March 11, 2011 2:10 PM GMT
As an Oasis Dream proxy Showcasing vs Approve was a no brainer give the damsides.  They were offering to deal so finding 130 might be possible (if entirely undesireable for the breed).  CCliffs is streets ahead of the milers from last year so clearly on anyones list - hope they dont want Makfi money + a premium.  £25k still makes me chuckle, Q Redvers & cronies buying them up with Quatari money left right & centre.
Report RipVanWinkle March 11, 2011 5:16 PM GMT
I wouldnt give £25k for Makfi regardless of the fact he won a classic last season. It was a pity that Makfi and Canford Cliffs didnt meet a few more times last season as i think canford cliffs would have got the better of him. I like the look of Canford Cliffs alot, i like the fact he won the St.James Palace against a quality field, its a race that i really look forward to come Ascot and the Coventry is always a big win at 2. I suppose that Makfi does hold extra value being by Dubawi but Canford Cliffs seems like a very hardy horse, his conformation seems good with a nice long stride(only saw him at the Curragh missed him at Ascot). I do like the fact hes out of a Marju mare and the purchase of him makes sense by Coolmore as he will eventually shuttle and should be in big demand down under because of Stolen Hour and Buckpasser. I cant see them charging more than €15000 when he retires regardless of what he does this year
Report neill d March 11, 2011 8:16 PM GMT
I'd be nearly sure Canford Cliffs will be champion older horse this year and I also reckon he'll win a group 1 at 10 furlongs.
Report potentialmillionaire March 11, 2011 9:05 PM GMT
I don't know how much they paid for Canford Cliffs but I would like to bet it would necessitate a higher fee than 15k perhaps Ripvan. One particular problem is that if he flies through this season like last, by starting him at a modest fee they are in effect 'admitting' his pedigree flaws. Whilst they are there for all to see - and to have a view on! - I think that if he doesn't lose his gloss like Rip Van Winkle did slightly then they will pitch him at his level.
If next year is blistering and he had a pedigree to match then he'd be a 40 grander wouldn't he?
Report RipVanWinkle March 11, 2011 9:27 PM GMT
I couldnt see them standing him for much more than 15k because he is by Tagula not saying he is a bad sire but he is not commercial which makes it hard for Canford Cliffs to be very very commercial although he will be commercial and he doesnt have the strongest dams side. The thing is when you have a horse like Rip Van Winkle being rated so high by the best sire in the world although he has his faults being pitched at €20000 i couldnt see how they could put Canford on a higher fee.

Canford Cliffs seems like a real athlete though and has scope so can you see him getting as many 2 year olds as people think? He has a powerful shoulder with a good big hind quarter which is something that is very good but i couldnt see them pitching him at a higher price than Rip
Report Prima Donna March 11, 2011 9:51 PM GMT
My view is if CC does not go on this year (I think he will)then he'd be 10/12k if he does do it and is top miler then the most he will be is 17k but agree with Rip Van 15k looks about right,Rip Vans point about Tagula is valid.
Report potentialmillionaire March 11, 2011 10:27 PM GMT
I agree that the disparity between now - and not trained on - and 2012 after a glittering 4yo career would be enormous. 12k for the former and 20+ for the latter.

I guess he's a great looker and no-one can afford to ignore a mega talented miler commercially.
Report AntoineDoinel March 12, 2011 2:22 AM GMT
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Report jonnyrotten March 12, 2011 9:17 PM GMT
makfi full for this year and the owners might be the next (mac toombs) kind of makes me think of george and his skate to where the puck is going to be quote
Report potentialmillionaire March 12, 2011 9:39 PM GMT
I think you are right to consider that potential scenario jonnyr. I think quite a few people will be keeping an eye out.

I am probably way out here, but the Qatar boys do seem to be working to a similar blueprint to the 'Let's get Dubai on the map' initiative so who knows where they might end up.

Are they coming at the game from the position of great passion that the Maktoums brought to the mix though? I think that given the Dubaians enormous racing infrastructure worldwide coupled with their love of the game, tighter times chez Maktoum will not knock them from the top of the pile of great influence any time soon.
Report jonnyrotten March 12, 2011 10:08 PM GMT
im sure you are right potm, shiekh mo would go down with the ship before he let any1 else grab the helm, but things are getting tighter even for him
Report yer ma March 13, 2011 9:29 AM GMT
Quataris seem to be investing in sports of all types so cant see too many parallels with the Dubai family (who clearly love racing) AND if you're that serious, getting in bed with Redvers and basing at Tweenhills isnt the route.  It aint no Dalham Hall / Derrinstown / Nunnery...
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