Bloodstock & Breeding
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just like to know anyones thoughts on the new stallions
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I have a mare in Ireland that I wanted to cover with Arcano before bringing her back here. But annoyingly she got turned away as I think his book was full in a little over 4 weeks! so thinking about bring her back at an earlier date and covering her with Showcasing or Aqlaam as she is by Efisio and he works well with Oasis Dream (Rimth & Mullien, both stakes winners on this cross).
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Aqlaam is full Wilycayote so Showcasing it is perhaps! Unless ofcourse you are of great door opening influence. There are plenty of perceived good things that are full, but their percentage of loss making foals will remain huge, like everything else.
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I'm afraid I have zero door opening influence! But I cant understand why Shadwell stallions fill up so fast when the stud has a very poor record with its stallions over the past 7 or 8 years +. I know they support their stock but there is a limit to that if they're not doing it on the track.
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how many mares is a full book then and what should be correct amount to give breeders a chance?
Also as a new breeder i have noticed stallions cover so many mares and then when u look at the number of foals born /reg its less than 50 % of what they covered.why? seems very false info? |
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Wilycayote, people like me will pick a stallion on our perception of it's potential for our mares.
As a commercial breeder I do try to consider the stud's commercial support too, but that is very much less important. A studs ability to 'make' a stallion is important if you choose to use their horse in year (2) 3,4, (&5) Year 1 is solely about the quality of the individual produced and year 6 onwards is about how the runners are faring. I think Shadwell's record as a sire producer isn't very much different to many other farms it's just that when there are 32000 Hawk Wings, Footstepsinthesands, etc etc there are obviously a lot more winners to keep trading on than there are with an equally ordinary sire at Shadwell/Derrinstown. Elnadim. Mujtahid, Mujahid, Sakhee etc. are better than many sires out there but the number of mares covered perhaps works against them. However I try to keep a sharp eye on W/R and stakes horses to foals stats to really evaluate a sire. I know others just assimilate totals in their heads derived from their daily read through of the racing post, and many stallion studs know this, but you must consider the opportunity given. After all, most stallions are useless - wherever they stand and Shadwell doesn't retire half as many there as most. Let us know where you end up! sammy, I would love to see books restricted to 110. The absolute perfect no. for stallion and mare owner in my opinion! |
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Pot M, I totally agree that 110 is an ideal number to restrict stallions to covering. Enough ammunition without flooding the market. I might ask what they are restricting Showcasing to, otherwise I'm not so sure where I should go. Anyone know of a good nick with an Efisio mare?
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Wily, Whitsbury have a very set policy on book sizes and I can't quite remember what it is!
I think it's 110 0r maybe 120 in year 1 to get 'enough' on the ground. And then it's less from then on. They'll tell you quite happily and I think it is a reasonable policy. I was discussing matings with a friend today. And I thought with 3 Oasis Dreams 2 Invincible Spirits and a Danehill Dancer it's a crowded old pear tree! They are so interchangable aren't they and with all of them covering big books there will probably be enough in each of their books for buyers to just buy one from the stallion that hits the fashion jackpot. There's not much room for error is there. Doesn't Efisio sit nicely with most lines ? Particularly all the Danehill lot? |
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110 sounds fair number to me ,but how come lots or nearly all the so called busy stallions end up having so few foals against there mares covered? are these stallions just preceived busy? or do they have really bad conception rates due to covering so many mares?
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A few days ago I saw Paco Boy. Very impressed with his strength and muscle definition although admittedly only just back from the Far East before Christmas after a busy year racing. I believe they are thinking of covering up to 130 mares.
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Fancy fleshing out your Paco Boy experience, Ugly.
Does he wind that off fore like it appears in the video? I've always assumed him to be an on the leg non-walker too. Tell us more! |
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As long as you are one of the dozen pals Little Johnnie uses to inflate the median by buying off or the dozen that Doyle buys you'll be fine. How much are they really asking from these 130 breeders?
Showcasing is 120 including a nice one of mine. Charlie O says he's nearly full. While I agree PotM about a glut of similar types, the more I looked the less I thought of the others pedigree. Arcano covers were a stitch up job before the end of the Nov, although Hamdan isnt going to buy them all. |
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its not that Paco Boy is a particulary bad looking horse, its just that he cant walk a yard. I watched him closely in the parade ring at many racecourses where he would shuffle round.
Its no coincidence that his sale record reads; foal- E18,000 yearling goffs - N/S yearling Dec - E16,000 breeze up - 30,000 need to be selling his offspring at the gallop! |
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who will sell better ?make more profit
makfi,paco,showcasing or equiano .is makfi worth extra 17k stg onto the value of a yearling?or is paco and equiano woth 5 k more than sc. |
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Is Arcano a good looker ?..what about his size ? Has any reason been offered for his abject 3YO season ? A horse with a regressive profile; out of an unraced Daylami mare. Plenty of questions for me.
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Sammy, as PD will tell you - its the mare thats key. If you've a decent mare then probably a Makfi will well outsell the rest BUT I'd bet against the median even clearing a 17k difference. If you've a chancey mare then you're just digging a bigger hole to get out of imho.
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It's difficult to know what we are all aiming for really. Profits are so rareified right now and it's a hell of a job knowing from where they will appear. One thing is for sure, if I've turned up at the sales with a truly outstanding individual - and it's been such a long time I've forgotten how to do it - then the horse in question has outsold it's pedigree and it's sire's perceived bracket.
As everyone knows, the overall quality of a sires first crop will dictate how he gets on and that's where we've all got to take a view on that before we sign a contract. Royal Applause has perhaps been the most consistent sales horse of his type in recent times, Acclamation is doing his utmost to continue in the same vein so perhaps Equiano could follow suit? If Makfi hits the supermodel trail then he will hugely outsell the others, if he doesn't well, it's a long way to fall. |
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You'd expect Makfi to be well supported with quality mares, and at the sales given the obvious wealth of those who have bought him.
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i agree there all hard to judge but i think with less foals being born there should be a good demand for all yearlings going forward (hopefully). therefore picking right ist season stallion is very important.conformation should be the deciding factor as none will have any runners.thinking paco boy or equiano as less risk.
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