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I have a very well bred Galileo Mare from the family of Inchinor, she's currently in foal to Medicean and I'm thinking about next years covering. My shortlist is as follows:
Showcasing - Cheap and I think the yearling would be relatively commercial although I'm not sure that looking at the picture of showcasing the sprinters physique of showcasing would match the more middle distance physique of my mare.
Monsieur Bond - Even cheaper, doing well at the moment and would appear to get good looking offspring although a bit worried that in 3 years time when I come to sell the yearling he might have dropped off the radar, due to the inevitably poor quality books he will have been covering.
Exceed and Excel - The Danehill/Galileo cross is appealing and I hear that a nomination can be purchased for a lot less than advertised.
Royal Applause - Would appear to be a safe option and should sell well.
Champs Elysee - My initial choice which I am now wavering on. Physically I think he would suit my mare, and my mare has a 100 rated brother who is by Dansili. What is putting me off is second season sire syndrome. Especially as I can't imagine Champs Elysee getting many precocious 2 year olds in his first crop.
Any thoughts on the above? Or any other suggestions? I don't want to pay much above £10K and don't want to go to Ireland.
Thanks
Showcasing - Cheap and I think the yearling would be relatively commercial although I'm not sure that looking at the picture of showcasing the sprinters physique of showcasing would match the more middle distance physique of my mare.
Monsieur Bond - Even cheaper, doing well at the moment and would appear to get good looking offspring although a bit worried that in 3 years time when I come to sell the yearling he might have dropped off the radar, due to the inevitably poor quality books he will have been covering.
Exceed and Excel - The Danehill/Galileo cross is appealing and I hear that a nomination can be purchased for a lot less than advertised.
Royal Applause - Would appear to be a safe option and should sell well.
Champs Elysee - My initial choice which I am now wavering on. Physically I think he would suit my mare, and my mare has a 100 rated brother who is by Dansili. What is putting me off is second season sire syndrome. Especially as I can't imagine Champs Elysee getting many precocious 2 year olds in his first crop.
Any thoughts on the above? Or any other suggestions? I don't want to pay much above £10K and don't want to go to Ireland.
Thanks
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I would favour Exceed and Excel, same cross as Teofilo ....that's a good family, I see Miss Keller runs in the BC from the same family tonight!
Yes it is a very good family.
I had very high hopes for my mare, the trainer thought she was by far his best two year old, and was talking about the Guineas, but unfortunately she suffered a career ending injury before she'd run.
I had very high hopes for my mare, the trainer thought she was by far his best two year old, and was talking about the Guineas, but unfortunately she suffered a career ending injury before she'd run.
Well Exceed and Excel gets plenty of winners and also can get a class horse. His stats for blacktype 2yos are very good. He is ideal to start a young mare off with, especially as it's the right cross!
I believe that Darley are pretty good to deal with...
I believe that Darley are pretty good to deal with...
Race 1, my twaddle.
Showcasing has the sort ofpedigree which can mix with a staying mare and ofcourse you've got the 1st season relaxation!
M. Bond A BIG gamble. (Actually bigger than that)
Ex and Ex. Am I being dumb here, but I still don't know his fee. For a single mare he has not been a dealer, or even particularly easy to get into in recent seasons. A bulk order might be a bit different.
Royal Applause, I love but he's not getting any trendier or younger and I think he needs a non staying mare - unless you've got a Silver Hawk mare.
If you love Champs Elysee, would you consider selling as a foal? Then you've cut your risk at least.
Paco Boy? I know his pedigree isn't great, but it's what I call an honest page, and there's no doubt Desert Style could help - if he chose!
Keep us informed as you sound in a very similar boat to me, so we need to keep chewing the fat!
Showcasing has the sort ofpedigree which can mix with a staying mare and ofcourse you've got the 1st season relaxation!
M. Bond A BIG gamble. (Actually bigger than that)
Ex and Ex. Am I being dumb here, but I still don't know his fee. For a single mare he has not been a dealer, or even particularly easy to get into in recent seasons. A bulk order might be a bit different.
Royal Applause, I love but he's not getting any trendier or younger and I think he needs a non staying mare - unless you've got a Silver Hawk mare.
If you love Champs Elysee, would you consider selling as a foal? Then you've cut your risk at least.
Paco Boy? I know his pedigree isn't great, but it's what I call an honest page, and there's no doubt Desert Style could help - if he chose!
Keep us informed as you sound in a very similar boat to me, so we need to keep chewing the fat!
Race one,Of those stallions that seem to on your list if she were mine I think I'd go to Champs Elysees and sell like Pot M suggests as a foal,the cross with Galileo is a good one and as you point out your mare has a 100 rated bro' by his full brother Dansili.
The point you make about you doubt CE will get many precocious 2y'olds from his first crop is valid but when you start with a mare by Galileo are you so sure she is likely to get this sort anyway?I see you have her now in-foal to Medicean does he strike you as the sort who is going to get you such an early type out of your mare?At 10k sterling Champs Elysees does look value even on his 2nd season especially if Dansili goes on the way he looks like he's going.Of the others mentioned above Showcasing to me looks a great prospect and he is sure to add fashionable preciosity being a son of 'red hot' Oasis Dream,at his price of 5k you should get a good return,imo Royal Applause is now looking old hat so if you do want to sell he could be cold as yesterdays potatoes in a couple of years time I think he's expensive at 9k atm.
Paco Boy is a well know runner who is always consistent that does help but for me you would want 1,a mare from a classy family that ran or gets early sorts as he may not get such precocious types and 2,A good moving mare who walks well. Champs Elysees would be my choice from your information but really you need to be familiar with her family to make an educated assessment.
The point you make about you doubt CE will get many precocious 2y'olds from his first crop is valid but when you start with a mare by Galileo are you so sure she is likely to get this sort anyway?I see you have her now in-foal to Medicean does he strike you as the sort who is going to get you such an early type out of your mare?At 10k sterling Champs Elysees does look value even on his 2nd season especially if Dansili goes on the way he looks like he's going.Of the others mentioned above Showcasing to me looks a great prospect and he is sure to add fashionable preciosity being a son of 'red hot' Oasis Dream,at his price of 5k you should get a good return,imo Royal Applause is now looking old hat so if you do want to sell he could be cold as yesterdays potatoes in a couple of years time I think he's expensive at 9k atm.
Paco Boy is a well know runner who is always consistent that does help but for me you would want 1,a mare from a classy family that ran or gets early sorts as he may not get such precocious types and 2,A good moving mare who walks well. Champs Elysees would be my choice from your information but really you need to be familiar with her family to make an educated assessment.
Just got an email from Juddmonte with the 2011 fees, and I see that Champs Elysee is still £10k. Does anyone know how much they will deal on this?
Doubt they will tbh,deals can be had if your lucky but with them you pay the price and take your chance,esp' if you have only one mare for them.
we have a friend with nice mare going to him and they wouldn't budge on the price. I think he is a great prospect.
He wasn't mega popular in year 1. 107 mares perhaps. They do sometimes deal there but I agree it seems unlikely as they probably have a shrewd idea how he is going to go by now.
Oasis Dream at 85k Prima. Are you happy with that? 31 yearlings made less than that this year - and he couldn't be much hotter -
Why do we accept those sort of odds? What other business model involves those sort of stats?
Oasis Dream at 85k Prima. Are you happy with that? 31 yearlings made less than that this year - and he couldn't be much hotter -
Why do we accept those sort of odds? What other business model involves those sort of stats?
Oasis Dream at 85k Prima. Are you happy with that? 31 yearlings made less than that this year - and he couldn't be much hotter -
Yes that's true and yes I also think its brave in this climate to raise him,you right about the fact that plenty of his don't seem to make what you'd expect them to make.
But saying that have you ever seen the horse in the flesh?He is not the most physically impressive stallion he has one fault that will if you are unlucky enough to get it with your foal you will have the job of making money that bit harder.
With the right mare and it must be the right mare you can make serious money,this is an example of people putting form and stallion success BEFORE looking at him conformationally that's my guess why some don't make what they perhaps should do on paper at least.85k is a hell of a lot but it can be done using your nouse![;)]
Yes that's true and yes I also think its brave in this climate to raise him,you right about the fact that plenty of his don't seem to make what you'd expect them to make.
But saying that have you ever seen the horse in the flesh?He is not the most physically impressive stallion he has one fault that will if you are unlucky enough to get it with your foal you will have the job of making money that bit harder.
With the right mare and it must be the right mare you can make serious money,this is an example of people putting form and stallion success BEFORE looking at him conformationally that's my guess why some don't make what they perhaps should do on paper at least.85k is a hell of a lot but it can be done using your nouse![;)]
I actually used the horse in year 2. The mare died (along with a good few dreams) but I'm glad you don't have him as a real stunner because I thought he was nice enough but not quite as good looking as his reputation would have it. Slightly ungenerous 'filly' head.
I suppose a nailed on golden goose type mare is the best bet. Now where did I leave mine
I suppose a nailed on golden goose type mare is the best bet. Now where did I leave mine
What rotten luck to loose your mare Pot M,
I suppose a nailed on golden goose type mare is the best bet.
It sure is now as he is too expensive to take a chance with a lesser type mare hoping he can upgrade her stock,from now on commercially speaking he is imo best left to cover top mares,his sons mind would be a safer bet for middle market sorts if they can upgrade their mares stock like OD then your return should it all go well be greater than daddy sitting pretty at 85k.Breeders who can just scrape his stud fee together sending a mare who is likely really to be in the lower end of his book will only suffer when they come to sell as then they are up against the best mares the sale ring can be a great leveller to us all!
I suppose a nailed on golden goose type mare is the best bet.
It sure is now as he is too expensive to take a chance with a lesser type mare hoping he can upgrade her stock,from now on commercially speaking he is imo best left to cover top mares,his sons mind would be a safer bet for middle market sorts if they can upgrade their mares stock like OD then your return should it all go well be greater than daddy sitting pretty at 85k.Breeders who can just scrape his stud fee together sending a mare who is likely really to be in the lower end of his book will only suffer when they come to sell as then they are up against the best mares the sale ring can be a great leveller to us all!
PD,
"I think I'd go to Champs Elysees and sell like Pot M suggests as a foal,the cross with Galileo is a good one"
How is the cross a good one? Galileo has only had 12 runners in Europe as a broodmare sire, as of the end of 2009 that was one runner who rated less than 80.
"I think I'd go to Champs Elysees and sell like Pot M suggests as a foal,the cross with Galileo is a good one"
How is the cross a good one? Galileo has only had 12 runners in Europe as a broodmare sire, as of the end of 2009 that was one runner who rated less than 80.
Eqi'I'm talking about the reverse Danehill/Galileo cross, where Galileo has been successful with daughters of Danehill. Sadlers Wells and Danehill worked well with each other on either half of a pedigree, so there should be some hope that their sons will do the same.
Thanks for everyones help. I think I have decided to go for Showcasing assuming he looks OK when I see him.
I did a bit of research and the Oasis Dream/Sadlers Wells cross has been quite successful, most notably with Approve. So i'm hoping that a similar cross with sons of these stallions will also be successful.
Does anyone know if Showcasing has been popular, or can I wait it out till the last minute hoping to get a deal?
I did a bit of research and the Oasis Dream/Sadlers Wells cross has been quite successful, most notably with Approve. So i'm hoping that a similar cross with sons of these stallions will also be successful.
Does anyone know if Showcasing has been popular, or can I wait it out till the last minute hoping to get a deal?
Just spotted this...
The Darley 2011 roster features two new retirees: Breeders' Cup Juvenile winner Vale Of York will stand at Kildangan Stud for a fee of €5,000, while Group 1 performer Alexandros joins Haras du Logis in France at a fee of €4,000.
Would Vale of York be interesting at all - although I suppose you takes your chances with a first crop sire
The Darley 2011 roster features two new retirees: Breeders' Cup Juvenile winner Vale Of York will stand at Kildangan Stud for a fee of €5,000, while Group 1 performer Alexandros joins Haras du Logis in France at a fee of €4,000.
Would Vale of York be interesting at all - although I suppose you takes your chances with a first crop sire
SORRY... just saw the Ireland reference :O(
How about...
Halling?
Kyllachy?
How about...
Halling?
Kyllachy?
how about paco boy. reasonably priced persumably only for a few seasons and surely wouldnt put buyers off come sales time
Just discovered this forum..
Would be interested to know what you plumped for in the end Race1. Did you stick with Showcasing? Interesting you point out the SWells / ODream cross for Approve. He seems to work with both speed & stamina, so probably a good move.
Would be interested to know what you plumped for in the end Race1. Did you stick with Showcasing? Interesting you point out the SWells / ODream cross for Approve. He seems to work with both speed & stamina, so probably a good move.
Was going to go with Showcasing but have now realised that the terms aren't Live Foal, so I think it is too much of a risk for a first season sire.
I rang Shadwell about Mawatheeq and they told me that he still had plenty of room in his book for more mares even though he is being limited to 85 outside mares. I think she then realised she shouldn't have been so blunt and gave me the sales speak about "but he is filling up fast!"
Despite this they said they aren't budging on the price which seems a bit strange, so still undecided??
I rang Shadwell about Mawatheeq and they told me that he still had plenty of room in his book for more mares even though he is being limited to 85 outside mares. I think she then realised she shouldn't have been so blunt and gave me the sales speak about "but he is filling up fast!"
Despite this they said they aren't budging on the price which seems a bit strange, so still undecided??
Ah Race1 a man(woman) after my own heart - but don't get to thinking you will wrestle my 'Dithering' crown from me, I won't give it up without a fight 
Presuming your mare has a good record, I am sure you wouldn't have too much problem insuring your foetus from Oct 1st until birth for a nominal ammount. And I should have thought that a 1st season sire is no more likely to have a problem between those times than a proven one? Or am I missing something here?
Interesting that they won't move on Mawatheeq. I can't see him fighting them off! I SO don't want to use him but as I like Shadwell's support mechanisms and their book sizes he keeps forcing back into view. Full price does not help his cause.
Presuming your mare has a good record, I am sure you wouldn't have too much problem insuring your foetus from Oct 1st until birth for a nominal ammount. And I should have thought that a 1st season sire is no more likely to have a problem between those times than a proven one? Or am I missing something here?
Interesting that they won't move on Mawatheeq. I can't see him fighting them off! I SO don't want to use him but as I like Shadwell's support mechanisms and their book sizes he keeps forcing back into view. Full price does not help his cause.
Mawatheeq is very well bred but for what he done on the racecourse his fee is way over the top. By what Race1 is saying he is not getting supported well, so imagine how little mares he'll get next year and the year after commercially he a big no already.
Potm this may be a wild one but what about Naaqoos
Potm this may be a wild one but what about Naaqoos
Prima Donna is a big Naaqoos man I think Rip, but I'm not going to let that put me off [;)]
He has a lot of appeal as I would like something quite sizey for one mare and he was such a great mover. The video of him at the Mezeray website is good although it didn't play well for me.
I'm a bit daunted by the French thing though I will admit!
He has a lot of appeal as I would like something quite sizey for one mare and he was such a great mover. The video of him at the Mezeray website is good although it didn't play well for me.
I'm a bit daunted by the French thing though I will admit!
Agree with Pot M regarding insuring from 1st Oct.
Id rather go to a stallion I really wanted than be forced into one becoause of slightly more favourable terms. I'll often ask for a discount on the fee and then use part of that notional income to fund the insurace until the foal is 48hours old, its pretty cheap.
Staying well clear of Mawatheeq. A 12furlong son of Danzig, no thanks!
Id rather go to a stallion I really wanted than be forced into one becoause of slightly more favourable terms. I'll often ask for a discount on the fee and then use part of that notional income to fund the insurace until the foal is 48hours old, its pretty cheap.
Staying well clear of Mawatheeq. A 12furlong son of Danzig, no thanks!
Having been put of Mawatheeq, has anybody got any views on Archipenko?
Well bred stallion never going to be commercial only appeal is as an owner breeder type.Mawatheeq would be better off standing in some hot eastern country!
If it's down to those two Race 1, you've got a challenge on your hands!
But Mawatheeq it would be for me as much better put together, hot family, 1st season and good supporting stud.
However I'd keep adding to your list for the time being
But Mawatheeq it would be for me as much better put together, hot family, 1st season and good supporting stud.
However I'd keep adding to your list for the time being
I dont like being negative about stallions all the time but Kingmambo (sire of Archipenko) has a terrible record as a sire of sires considering what a brilliant stallion he was and there have been many far more talented sons of his to go to stud who have failed, so it would be a blind leap to think Archipenko could break the trend.
After all the dithering I have gone with my initial thought, namely Champs Elysees. I got a very good deal as well which makes me suspect that he perhaps hasn't been quite as popular for his second season.
Well Race 1, well done!!
I am a bit surprised that 'a very good' deal was forthcoming. He's the sort of horse - like his brother and Sir Percy for instance - that I thought might prove more popular in year 2 as he bedded in. I shall give him a bit more thought if there is some movement. Indeed I might employ your silky smooth negotiating skills!
I am a bit surprised that 'a very good' deal was forthcoming. He's the sort of horse - like his brother and Sir Percy for instance - that I thought might prove more popular in year 2 as he bedded in. I shall give him a bit more thought if there is some movement. Indeed I might employ your silky smooth negotiating skills!
I know a person sending one over to him he said there wasnt a budge in the price he booked in November
Its always difficult selling the offspring of a sire who did not race in England or Ireland. Purchasers feel little or no affinity with the stallion and agents dont like having to explain about the merits of a stallion that their clients dont recognise the name of. Bit of a generalisation I know but its usually true.
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