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21 Oct 10 10:58
Date Joined: 24 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 15,367 | Blogger: Hearts.no1's blog
If so how much does it cost and what expectations would you have for the foal ?

^ rookie question I know but I am interested.
Pause Switch to Standard View Iffraaj would anyone on here use him ?
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Report Prima Donna October 21, 2010 11:23 AM BST
Hearts old boy,you could use him as you may know he has done well this year but though he has had a GR1 winner on his first crop which is great the others have been lots of winners a bit like Holy Roman Emperor his others seem to lack a bit of class,if you use him next year and I think he will go up from this year but we will have to see how much by imo he is a very dangerous sire to use as come the time you sell his stock he may by then be dead in the water as stallions as a rule tend to get only moderate mares after their first year and fewer numbers so he needs to go on to maintain his profile,you could take the gamble and put your mare in-foal with a view to outing her next Dec' sales hoping his 2 y'olds go on then you should sell her and make a return,we have not used him and don't plan to next year,do you have mares?
Report Hearts.no1 October 21, 2010 12:46 PM BST
thnx for your reply Prima,can I ask you if you could pick any sire you wanted who would it be and why ?

ps and how much does that sire cost today ?
Report Hearts.no1 October 21, 2010 1:00 PM BST
the only mare I have is the wife,shes a feckin night'mare [smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smile...
Report Prima Donna October 21, 2010 1:14 PM BST
Hearts,We are going to use Galileo next year with a few mares he atm would be about the best sire to use but saying that Juddmonte have some red hot stallions Oasis Dream,Dansili,and the Irish National studs Invincible Spirit are both popular in the sale ring and doing well with their runners,Dubawi is like the others red hot,we are going to use all of these next year,the only one from that list who has to date never done us any favours at the sales is Dansili,but lets hope he can he sure does owe us!
None of them are cheap Galileo being the most expensive his fee is 'private' which means a lot depends the quality of your mares.
Using expensive stallions is all well and good but we also have mares that fit into the cheaper bracket we have used sires for as little as 1k,the best foal I've seen this year was by Misu Bond who is cheap in terms of fee but was good at 2 with a classy pedigree he gets seriously great looking stock.That is to my mind where knowledge comes into play you can get very good results from this sort of sire you just need to be brave and trust your judgement.[;)]
Report Hearts.no1 October 21, 2010 1:19 PM BST
thnx prima appreciated Happy
Report potentialmillionaire October 21, 2010 5:39 PM BST
Hearts dear heart,

I am sort of with Prima Donna here, but perhaps slightly less so!
Ifraaj has made a very bright start to his career, and most of us thought that his stock would make better 3yo's than 2yo's. If you still hold that theory then the future is very bright indeed.
In all likeliehood though that is probably not the case, they are just more precocious than imagined. His sales figures this year are obviously encouraging as all the winners in the world won't sell a stallions offspring unless they look the part too.
However, he won't be more popular than he is right now, probably ever. But when you come to sell whatever is conceived next year, well there will be plenty of them and the stud fee may well have been a bit steep. But, he is a Darley stallion and in fairness to them they may not be quite as extravagent with his fee rise as others could be.
Report Hearts.no1 October 21, 2010 7:51 PM BST
thnx for your reply PotentialM,can I ask you the same question as Prima if you could pick any sire you wanted who would it be and why ?

ps and how much does that sire cost today ?
Report potentialmillionaire October 21, 2010 8:06 PM BST
Well, Hearts. as you have probably realised Prima Donna and I operate  at a somewhat different level - although there is an occaisional overlap!

With stallion nominations, my tendency is always to want the sire just out of reach financially, but then I'm sure we all understand that particular trait of human nature Grin

I suppose though that Cape Cross, Invincible Spirit, Pivotal, Danehill Dancer and Oasis Dream all do what it says on the tin and Dubawi looks like following them. There fees range from about E30k to about E80. All these fees are on the internet somewhere. I seem to remember Mckeever Bloodstock used to post a list so if you want a list have a look there.
Report Hearts.no1 October 22, 2010 12:38 AM BST
I know it is not a exact science but I thought you would all be after the same sire(golden goose) as it was,thanks for your time.
Report RipVanWinkle October 22, 2010 8:19 PM BST
It will be a costly year to use galileo next year, Some of his sales figures are deceiving to say the least. Dansili and Oasis Dream will be hard to get into next year as will Dubawi. Wouldn't use Pivotal at his fee and Invincible Spirit by the sounds of it nearly has his book.

Montjeu could be an interesting one to use next year as his fee will prob come down and depending on your mare a good deal could be there. I would be interested in using Fastnet Rock or Starspangledbanner as they offer some interesting opportunities for breeders.
Report Prima Donna October 22, 2010 8:51 PM BST
Your right they are expensive but you have to go with it,we have already signed contracts on some sires for next year,Fastnet Rock should be in with a chance as some good mares went to him last year we have a mare in foal to him,but with the way Coolmore sires are selling it only takes a hint of rumour and everyone's off them,Starspangledbanner I don't think will be that well received plenty of people were not that keen on his chances most were cold on him,they will need connections help I think,he's off the list for us.
Report RipVanWinkle October 22, 2010 10:26 PM BST
I quite like the look of SSB to be honest. We've used Iffraaj a bit and have been lucky with them i dont know would i use him if his stud fee goes up though he represented value before
Report potentialmillionaire October 22, 2010 10:36 PM BST
As has been discussed, Sir Percy, Cockney Rebel and my oh my Dark Angel!

I wouldn't be remotely frightened of Starspangledbanner if I liked him. He'll be fine if he gets good looking stock.

Some of you guys have been such passionate Coolmorites both on here and at the contract signing stage. I know you'll say it's a fickle business and this year has been indifferent for them. Well if it's gone so wrong so quickly (and i.m.o. they're not gone yet!), well it's going to be another 2 years before you sell so god only knows which way we'll be facing then. The fact is if you think it's turned that quickly then it can turn back just as quickly.

Prima, you are one of the reasons Dansili frightens me! I think he is one of the most worrying big money stallion from a commercial point of view, perhaps the scariest.

And now I am officially entering Invincible Spirit along side him! It has long been my contention that the I.N.S. stallions cover too many mares. With absolutely no systems in place to support the offspring of their sires the range of profitable yearlings by a horse like I.S. is significantly more compact than others I feel.

Oh, I've decided to steer clear of Galileo too. I don't think my mares are quite strong enough, so if you don't mind I'll slot in with you guys to drive the hardest possible bargain on our Motivator noms Laugh
Report Prima Donna October 23, 2010 4:18 AM BST
Pot M its not that I think its all gone wrong for Coolmore yet I do think we as commercial breeders need to recognise that their roster is looking pretty empty with 'we must have's',they are full up with the likes of Aussie Rules,Duke of Marmalade,Dylan Thomas,Excellent Art,my old friend Footsteps'Holy Roman Em'.Hurricane Run,Oratorio,Peintre Celebre Rock of Gib',Strategic Prince none of that lot are screaming for anyone to use,they could bounce back but for me its going to be hard with that lot.
Rip Van Winkle and Starspangledbanner are going to help altar that,Rip is sure to be popular SSB will have a slot but it does depend on what they want for him.
Dansili scares me a bit too I think I have told you each time we used him we had moderate looking stock none of them were the same sorts he does not 'stamp' them,he has bitten us more than once,but you have to go with wants wanted,I have a feeling his bro' Champs Elysees will get great sorts so don't worry too much,lets hope Dansili goes on next year then both of us should be at least in with a shout.Using very expensive sires is scary I must sound all very casual about it the fact is it is a major decision that many times I think 'what the hell are we doing' after all its supposed to be a hobby but certain mares need certain stallions and as I say you have to go with it,we are all in this together all trying to breed runners and make money!I know what you'r saying about the INS, couldn't possibly comment[;)]
Report potentialmillionaire October 23, 2010 10:41 AM BST
Surely you must be Stateside with a posting time like that Prima? Either that or you really do need to get Slick's snoring seen to. . . (please don't tell her I've outed her! )

How pertinent you are once again when you list those Coolmore sires like that. As you know, I flit here there and everywhere for my nominations so never really consider the farms overall roster particularly.

But  proven, sexy & young,  is not where they're at right now is it.

I probably remain just as terrified with my matings choices as it's all relative isn't it. I would assume that any mare with a hint of light or backward about her is not the place to be with Dansili perhaps?
Report notenough October 23, 2010 1:04 PM BST
Holy roman emperor has been sold Turkey.Rather apt imo.
Report potentialmillionaire October 23, 2010 1:27 PM BST
Well given the quality of his pedigree and the mares he covered, H.R.E could possibly turn it round next year. (Admittedly a tall order perhaps)

One thing is for sure, his export makes it that bit more likely!!
Report Prima Donna October 23, 2010 6:58 PM BST
This news is not surprising always thought they would get rid of the useless Footstepsinthesand,breeders who have used HRE this year must now be panicking,doubt they will make a turn with the resulting stock,he sure has been disappointing,mind you as Pot M says plenty of exported stallions deemed as flops do bounce back on the back of their sale,lets hope for the sake of 2010 breeders he does,Coolmore need a clear out and new sires if they are not to be left behind.
Report RipVanWinkle October 23, 2010 7:11 PM BST
I have a mare in foal to him and i am not surprised with the news hopefully next years crop will be better.
Report neill d October 23, 2010 7:14 PM BST
If he was around this year he'd have won his group 1 thats for sure
Report Prima Donna October 23, 2010 7:20 PM BST
potentialmillionaire     23 Oct 10 10:41 
Surely you must be Stateside with a posting time like that Prima? Either that or you really do need to get Slick's snoring seen to. Laugh

Pot M,Slick does not snore...........she tells me often I do!I'm lucky in that I never need much sleep only about 5hrs a night,even at my stage of life I'm always ready for anything!!![;)]day or nightLaughWhen ever anyone signs a stallion contract you always think you have done the right thing right up to the point of signing,once your name is on the contract then your mind is filled with doubt!!!Its rather like buying horses in the sale ring we all get carried away once the hammer drops your thoughts instantly change to thinking what have I missed,confidence and horses don't really go hand in hand,the whole thing from start to finish is like a roller-coaster ride!Grin
Report potentialmillionaire October 23, 2010 8:22 PM BST
How right you are. Anyone sailing through this game with the assistance of the winds of confidence, is sure as hell heading for capsize!

When you get your horse home and it's now covered with mud, and the underbidder's nowhere to be seen when the feed bill arrives or the vet opens the gate. . .

How I wish I hadn't mentioned matters nocturnal, TOO MUCH INFORMATION Laugh
Report Prima Donna October 24, 2010 9:38 AM BST
How I wish I hadn't mentioned matters nocturnal, TOO MUCH INFORMATION

DevilGrinYou could say that Pot M,Slick was looking in on this post and was NOT amused with my comment [:x],one look said it all...........the dog house beckons!Laughyour bit about the vet opening the gate made me laugh its never for a cheap one that's for sure.
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