Papal Bull...

Are you dwn767?If you ask me I'd say he looks expensive.............jump stallion!

One of the 'trickiest' sires around to try and market for sure.

He seems to have attracted plenty of mares though.

Our new mantra Prima, 'Not one for me'

There wont be an Ascot Gold Cup when ye're finished lads

potentialmillionaire     Joined: 17 Mar 10
Replies: 374 23 Sep 10 11:19 
One of the 'trickiest' sires around to try and market for sure.

Isn't he just Pot M,This horse did have plenty of ability with a touch of class,but horses like him have only jumping sire stamped all over them,I don't know what his mares have been like but would feel sure they are a moderate bunch,some undoubtedly will of been jump mares don't forget he stands at 'the home of the gallopers'if they are trying to market him as a flat sire then they are making a mistake,as he will never be remotely commercial.

Neil d. I am a big believer in the Ascot Gold Cup as is Prima Donna I think.

There are plenty of good stamina stallions around, and I think that the commercial speed bias has actually strengthened the race in the last few years as so many top stayers have stayed in training and had a crack because they would be difficult types to market off the back of their 3yo career.

As Montjeu is such an incredibly potent influence at 1 1/2 miles I am not sure he would be the sire to go to for a Gold Cup winner as you can send him a stamina packed dam and he still over rules and out comes a mile and a halfer or 1mile six. He himself had so much speed I doubt he would have got any where near 2 1/2 miles. Papal Bull was very similar (inferior obv.) and with a Zafonic dam I think he might struggle to get us a cup horse too.

Neil, Galileo's your man for Gold Cups - and plenty else too! - and he's not short of support. so I think Ascot is safe for a bit longer

Pot M,you are right about Galileo as 'the' stallion for the Ascot Gold Cup,you are also right it is one race I would love to win,Dalakhani is another stallion that would be likely to get a horse of Gold Cup class.

Echo that. One thing is for sure, a plodder, ploddingly bred is very unlikely to win the race in my humbles. Despite oft talk of its demise, I still think you need a good touch of class to win the Gold Cup.

Talking of Gold Cup winners I did have an idea about sending one of ours to Westerner,in the end I didn't but sometimes I wish I had I do like him,he has that real touch of class with the right mare he could get a top class flat horse,Slick and I don't always agree with sire's she tends to go for speed and class I would love to win the St.Leger and the Gold Cup,probably that's why she is successful and I am not.
Those sort of races are still important I feel despite what most breeders seem to think.

6k for that headbanger is madness imo, surely if you are looking at a cheap son of Montjeu you would have to look at Scorpion at 5k least he was a bit more mentally stable he had speed for a plodder destroyed the record when he won the Grand Prix De Paris, won the Ledger and the Coronation and when he took them along in the Irish Derby he wasnt far from causing a upset. I think his half brother sired a few winners too.

As racehorses, I didn't like Scorpion's head carriage and Papal Bull didn't look straight forward.Although they attracted 341 mares between them in 2009, (Scorpion 187 and PapalBull 154)both are overpriced.

Scorpion's head carriage is down to his sire,most of the Montjeu's have some quirk the good ones do at least,this horse was very good and could of had more success on the track had he been allowed to,remember his run in the King George used as a pace horse for D.Thomas he may of won had he been ridden to win,the same in the Irish St.Leger going down by a nose to Yeats after having his teeth pulled almost out allowing Yeats a win in that classic at last.
Coming from his Family I doubt he will be any-good none of the sires in his family have been any-good really,but standing at Coolmore will give him at least the best chance book numbers like 187 will help,but good as he was and he was a good one,he would have to be a 'not for me'I'm afraid.

This lad always an enigma to me, wasn't he Coolmore owned, how did he end up with Stoute? Did they buy him during his career?

Coolmore bought him as a yearling, having probably bought him partially as a foal.
They sent him to Stoute - they usually have 5 or so with him.
He was then sold in training to his current owners who finished racing him.