Bloodstock & Breeding
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A couple of breeders I know have sent a few mares to this horse,they all say they were given such a good deal on his price,indicating a fee of 2/3k,in fact we ourselves received a 'phone call from NMKT asking us if we had a mare for him,the price above was loosely indicated.
Has anyone used him at those prices?He is a really nice looking sire,but for me he was a soft ground horse who connections wasted no time in selling couple that with the National Stud syndrome,I just wonder what future he has if he is available at much less than his advertised fee,I was told yesterday he has not had many mares(by a person that I don't know very well),can someone confirm the facts?
Has anyone used him at those prices?He is a really nice looking sire,but for me he was a soft ground horse who connections wasted no time in selling couple that with the National Stud syndrome,I just wonder what future he has if he is available at much less than his advertised fee,I was told yesterday he has not had many mares(by a person that I don't know very well),can someone confirm the facts?
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I'm glad you've raised this Prima. I made an enquiry about the horse for a good but old mare who needs downgrading. I got quite excited in the end as like anyone with half a brain (oh alright, quarter ) I am keen to tap into much missed Danetime.
As I've said before, I'm not the best for gossip so was a bit shocked when they were determined to cut the price without me even asking when I was worried he might be full! I'm afraid that this put a real dampner for me as I like to think I'm not going to be the only fool signing up. So everyone out there, what gives? |
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I heard he got a poor book of mares only know one person who used him but they did get a good deal and are happy but he is as you say a soft ground horse
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Looks like he does have very much the up hill battle with those sort of mares and it sounds like low numbers too,Danetime should help him as he was such a good source of speed,IF he does get great looking foals that really do look the part as yearlings and Bushrangers stock are not so good he might be okay,I have as well seen some good sorts by the other Danetime sire Baltic King,lets hope they all make it.
Someone I know well sent him 2 mares and got him for 3k sterling each,that was back in late Feb,we were offered him for less than that for just one..........not such a good sign,I'll be interested to see how mares in foal to him along with Bushranger sell this Autumn,that should give us some indication how they both are viewed by the industry. |
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I asked about him and cockney rebel in Jan and got told only discounts for two. Not very impressed to hear these stories but in the end I'm glad I was put off. National Stud strike me as having little if any strategy with their stallions. I doubt the two mentioned above will get going and Pastoral Pursuits - who I like quite a bit may struggle too unfortunately.
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I find it almost impossible to judge what a covering sires influence is on the price of a broodmare. Obviously a real commercial covering is a help but I've a sneaky suspicion that a less desirable covering on a nicer mare just encourages everyone to have a go because they think that the stallion will keep the price down. On this I think that there is a slight Ire/Gb divide perhaps, with a Goffs mare needing a 'good' covering more than a Tatts one, you Irish guys looking for a quicker return.
Am I the only one that doesn't discount a soft ground stallion? I appreciate that fast ground is perhaps more prevalent these days, but it didn't stop Sadler's bagging the odd championship. And whilst fast ground brilliance always catches the eye, I suspect it is a greater heart and lung capacity that gets the horse home in front when the going gets tough, and that can't be all bad can it? |
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potentialmillionaire 07 Aug 10 20:34
I find it almost impossible to judge what a covering sires influence is on the price of a broodmare. Obviously a real commercial covering is a help but I've a sneaky suspicion that a less desirable covering on a nicer mare just encourages everyone to have a go because they think that the stallion will keep the price down. That's a good point Pot M,Sometimes if you want out of a mare from a good family who is not pulling her weight(you need to constantly assess them)we would go for a red hot sire to maximise your return in the ring its imo the best way,but looking at Dec' sales or Goffs plenty of mares Grossly over covered to try to look attractive but I do think there is a limit as to what you should pay.And I agree about mares in foal to 2nd rate sires sometimes mares like that can make more than they are really worth,we have ourselves bought mares in foal to iffy sires that we would not use but if the mare is good we will live with the covering,more than likely boot the foal out as a foal(under another name). Am I the only one that doesn't discount a soft ground stallion? and that can't be all bad can it? Remember Teenoso?Plenty of doubters after his victory at Epsom on soft ground people were really crabbing the horse,but he proved them all wrong with his outstanding run on firm ground at Ascot,beating Sadlers Wells,who as you pointed out most of his stock want cut a bit like Danehill Dancers,but the difference with cut to soft is massive in terms of stallion potential,as the form can be all over the shop on soft as you get plenty of false results,also good to firm or firm shows just how sound the horse is,Teenoso would of been a lot cheaper than his initial £40k if he had not won GR1s on firm that's what by and large make the difference when we look at potential stallions,ime exclusively soft ground horses like My Boy Charlie never seem to have a great deal of appeal when you come to sell. |
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Prima, In full agreement about bad ground skewing results and I suppose as always it's a question of perception as to whether a horse who is a few lbs inferior/superior depending on the ground is popular or not.
As a small breeder not playing at your (I assume) heights it's perhaps a way in or an angle that might represent value by bucking the prejudices slightly. P.s. Never did get around to using Teenoso  |
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Tommy Stack never thought he wanted soft ground fwiw
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Well his best form was on heavy,or soft,he ran on G/F and firm but was always beaten,I think the form speaks louder than Tommy Stacks stallion hyping voice.
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If you say so but his leg action implied he may like a sounder surface. Do you not just think he was highly precocious also and as his career went on he simply didn't train on, worth noting he didn't stay in the National Stakes as opposed to being beaten by the ground, it's still a cracking piece of form anyway. Stack does tend to train them that way also.
I see he was going to stand in Australia, did that come to fruition? |
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Yes ben he did stand in Australia,and yes he was very good at 2,the sad fact is when you come to sell buyers are very dubious of horses that did all their winning on soft or heavy,but in his favour is the late Danetime,with just 3 sons at stud all fast lets hope he is popular.
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