Bloodstock & Breeding
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With Dansili being in such hot form I was just wondering what the great and the good of the B&B forum think of Strategic Prince (Dansili - Ausherra (Diesis)).
At E4,000.00 I think he appears to be good value.
He won his maiden over 5f in May, ran creditably in the Norfolk and won the G2 July Stakes over 6f which makes him the earliest and fastest son of Dansili now standing. The others being Rail Link, Zambezi Sun & Thousand Words.
Even if you look at those of his speedier sons who could retire to stud next year - Delegator & Zacinto didn't win a Group level until 3, he's still the earliest and fastest. The only exception would be Shaweel who was 3 days earlier to the track but still that was over 6f.
Would this make him commercial?
Would the fact he was not that great at 3 put you off?
Was the G2 he won too poor a race to make him attractive?
What do you make of him looks / confirmation wise (he's on the Coolmore website)?
Has anyone used him or seen any of his offspring? What were they like?
Is there too much stamina on the Dam side?
Being a Coolmore stallion is he likely to have been send decent and precocious mares?
Is using a Sire in what will be his 4th season too risky?
Would you be better off using Shaweel as a first season sire or would the fact he would be under the Darley banner put you off?
Lots of questions I know but they should get things rolling.
At E4,000.00 I think he appears to be good value.
He won his maiden over 5f in May, ran creditably in the Norfolk and won the G2 July Stakes over 6f which makes him the earliest and fastest son of Dansili now standing. The others being Rail Link, Zambezi Sun & Thousand Words.
Even if you look at those of his speedier sons who could retire to stud next year - Delegator & Zacinto didn't win a Group level until 3, he's still the earliest and fastest. The only exception would be Shaweel who was 3 days earlier to the track but still that was over 6f.
Would this make him commercial?
Would the fact he was not that great at 3 put you off?
Was the G2 he won too poor a race to make him attractive?
What do you make of him looks / confirmation wise (he's on the Coolmore website)?
Has anyone used him or seen any of his offspring? What were they like?
Is there too much stamina on the Dam side?
Being a Coolmore stallion is he likely to have been send decent and precocious mares?
Is using a Sire in what will be his 4th season too risky?
Would you be better off using Shaweel as a first season sire or would the fact he would be under the Darley banner put you off?
Lots of questions I know but they should get things rolling.
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This stallion could be commercial but its very surprising how many mares he has got in his few years at stud,he is a real good looking sire and being by Dansili should help,but he is very much an exception in so much as he was very sharp and early but is from a staying family by a sire who to date gets runners who improve with age,so what shall we get,do you think he will get early 2,y'olds or stock like his family who want a trip and time?
Standing at Coolmore does not earn him the right to get decent or precocious mares,he has only ever been a cheap sire,he was available this year at 2k,that should answer your question about him being commercial also his foals were very patchy in the sale ring lots were disappointing.Yes its always risky using a 4th season sire,if his first runners dont show much he will be dead in the water,I doubt his foals will sell that well again this year but his sire is doing well so it might stoke up a few people up. Shaweel does look alright as a prospect along with Delegator,but both would only be cheap sires,Delegator holds a bit more appeal as he is from a speedy family,but as goes hand in hand with Darley he seems to of vanished which takes the shine of him if and when he does retire as people forget them. |
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2K sounds like a steal especially if he's covered large books of mares. If you throw enough mud some of it is bound to stick. If some of them need a bit more time then that would benefit visiting later too would it not?
I suppose there is the worry that owners may want to push them too early and ruin them but at 2K these are risks worth taking? Would Shaweel and Delegator be "cheap sires", want constitutes cheap? My cheap is lower than 4K and I reckon these would be in the 5K to 8K bracket, Delegator maybe more. Anyway what is wrong with looking for value? Cheap is where I am, that's one of the reasons I used Baltic King. |
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Posh Paddy 02 Aug 10 22:21
2K sounds like a steal especially if he's covered large books of mares. He got in his first year 140,2nd season only 63 don't know yet how many he had this year lower than 63 I guess, Would Shaweel and Delegator be "cheap sires", want constitutes cheap? My cheap is lower than 4K and I reckon these would be in the 5K to 8K bracket, Delegator maybe more. I can't at the moment see Delegator standing at anything over 4/5k at the top both don't warrant it from what we have seen,nothing wrong with 'cheap'sires some can give you a real return,skill and luck in finding them,Baltic King a good sort as you know I like him hope your colt is doing well. |
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Well i used Strategic Prince in all of his seasons at stud(this being his 3rd) we have been very lucky with him as the foals have been smashers. i'm hoping that his runners are early types but if there not maybe than can really imrpove with age like Dansili's progeny. He comes from a very good family but it is not a very fast family. I like Diesis as a broodmare sire and being out of a half sister to Ramruma its a top family hopefully he can justify my faith in him
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His dam is a full sister to Ramruma Rip Van,I do like him he is a great looking sire who sure does look early as he was himself............but I wonder if with his family and his sire is he going to get precocious sort's?I fear with him if he does not as I said above he will be dead in the water.Saying that though most of his foals were nice sorts good luck with yours.I was going to ask you what do you think of Famous Name as a possible sire for next year?Dansili is doing so well lately,I was thinking about him the other day.
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Sorry forgot full sister, my bad. I'm a big fan of Diesis over the last couple of years used Dylan Thomas aswell.
I started a thread last year about Famous Name i thought that if you were breeding to race you couldn't really go to far wrong but cant see him being that commercial. He won early enough as a two year old but was not exceptional. Being out of a Quest For Fame mare i would never have thought you'd be interested considering he's by Rainbow Quest but Famous Name has shown he's one of the toughest horses in training. I think that he could stand in Ireland as he would be given a better chance here but who would stand him? Would you be interested in covering with him PD? |
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Would you be interested in covering with him PD?
Not personally Rip Van  but I have given him some thought as he is such a tough runner and being by Dansili can only help,but you are right about the fact his dam is by Quest for Fame......could I forgive him that..........I might after all he has been an okay sire FN is a good looking horse,I am looking for a new stallion that is by a commercial sire that will have some appeal and of course standing here not in England as the mare I may send him does not travel to well also she is my 'pet'but she does go well with Danehill line sires. |
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I'm sure you'll find something before the end of the year maybe a nice son of Danehill Dancer might come along. What would be your budget for her?
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I myself would not keep her to any limit,but I would have to spend all year explaining to Slick why I spent so much,in reality she does not warrant more than 5keuro's,she does get good lookers they all win I would race it myself as I've raced everything out of her.
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PD, What has she been put in foal to and does she have a foal at foot. We have a couple that need something like what your talking about but it can be very hard to find one of them went to Strategic Prince the other to Iffraaj but she is pretty old now.
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Rip Van,She went to Tally-Ho this year, she did get in foal but has since lost it and is now barren,yes she has a super looking filly this year by one of the cheaper Coolmore Danehill horses,I have be thinking about sending that filly to Richard Hannon,I have a descent older horse in NMKT who is a good handicap horse out of the mare.
Yeah stallions like that are as you say hard to find I'm always on the look out and always want value.Arcano is one I would be keen on seeing him the other day I'd say 6k max good sort though. |
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Yes i said on here before that Arcano is one that caught my eye and hopefully Derrinstown will be his place.
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I know you did Rip Van,hope he does come over here,I was thinking where Famous Name could go,do you think he might end up with Maurice Burns?I know he has Thousand Words but he faces his 3rd season and with just 74 mares lots of those were Rathasker's,and FN is a better horse than TW,but he does have a similar profile but they could cash in on Dansili.
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Money can be made on Famous Name but i dont think it will be at Rathasker because they have Clodovil aswell so he may want to get away from Danehill although that is pretty hard.
Could you see Juddmonte standing the horse in Ireland themselves? |
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Could you see Juddmonte standing the horse in Ireland themselves?
In short no!I know he does not fit the profile but I did think about Coolmore as they won't have much to offer in the cheaper sires but he may yet win a GR1,or Gay O'Callaghan as I seem to remember he stood Distant Music for Juddmonte a few years ago,he is I understand after a new horse.Tony, Gay's brother told me some weeks ago he would also like a new horse poss' two,standing that dreg Tillerman as he did a couple of years ago, who was also a Juddmonte runner,he may buy him or stand him for them as no one seems to have any loot. |
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I nearly fell over backwards when I saw that anyone wanted to stand Thousand Words.
He does look attractive in his pictures but his profile was so low and his rating not much higher! Rathasker have stood some lowley rated horses over the years I suppose and made something of them, but it is ever tougher to get those types started - still they must cost about £38.50 to procure in the first place. Famous Name is way more prominent and is out so often in Ireland that he would surely find a berth with you. He could do with a win or too over here though couldn't he. If he stays a national horse only that will seriously affect his appeal and fee. I think Tony should get on the blower to Philip Mitchell and do some sort of lease deal. |
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Pot M,does he hold any appeal to you (Famous Name)?I agree with you about Thousand Words,could never understand Maurice standing the dreg,but then he did stand that fantastic prospect Fruits of Love [:o]OMG
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In your honour Prima, I have just looked up his form again and tried to place his family.
Off hand I don't recognise it and it cetainly doesn't look to be a top Juddmonte tribe (acknowledging that that doesn't mean it's a bad page by any means!!) I wonder if their experiment of sending horses to Dermot Weld involved B team yearlings? Any thoughts anyone? Now if Famous Name had done his L., Gp3.,Gp2. thing over here I would be very interested as I value toughness and consistency as highly as I value brilliance, but as I've said before, I am happier to have a familiarity with a potential stallion that I think the trainers will share. In all honesty though I have probably used horses with a lowish profile before - you know how it is, if they suit you take a chance don't you? - so I wouldn't put people off. Also, and I know we agree here, so much depends on where he ends up. If his profile remains largely Irish though, he'll stand with you and be deservedly popular if pitched right. I am in complete agreement with you about F of L. I'd got 10 mares lined up for him - and then came his sad demise. . .  |
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F of L he has been a real loss to us,how will Maurice ever get over it!I reckon you may be right about the B team Juddmonte yearlings,it makes sense.I will be keeping my eye on Famous Name and hope he can go on,he will be on our list,I shall have to start saving!!![;)]I too value soundness as much almost as precocity,FN is like most of Dansili's improve with age. |