Steinbeck people say he's a miler?

Couldn't see them doing it.Giants Causeway showed he is an influence for stamina sometimes with rite of passage the last day

An interesting point, I've always said he's just a bit of a galloper without a turn of foot but perhaps he's just more a staying type.

You could be right ben,I know they are trying to promote him as a miler but with his style of running he to me needs further, I did speak to Aidan O'Brien the other day he was not very hopeful of a good run and implied he may want longer around 10f,on the Steinbeck thread I did say he may be one for later in the year,He might come good but for me his pedigree shouts for more than a mile,I did wonder if he will show up in the Irish Champion or the International at York,if he doesn't do it this year but looks like he can improve I could see him staying in training,saying that though that dose somewhat depend on how well Footsteps' does this year.

Irish champion for St Nick id say, It's the only way they can salvage something for the year. Steinbeck looks like he nneds further now to me aswell, though to be fair he showed plenty of spped in the Dewhurst, It could just be that he is dissapointing or even that they have never had a clear run with him. He'll probably stay in training next year so we'll probably find out then because whatever he does this year they will always have the excuse that they never had him right. A fella posted on the ante post forum saying he had  lads in the Coolmore jackets in a taxi on the way to Ascot and they were basically saying he was overrated end of. ON the evidence we've seen. surely he wouldn't be commercial anyway without a group win at 2 and probanly no group one at 3

Coolmore jackets in a taxi.... It's like an article in the Sun - gospel ofcourse!!!!

Irish Derby maybe looks a very weak one this year?

I know it soumds a bit dubious but the guys post did say that starspangledbanner was their was their best chance of a winner and that age of Aquarus would run very well, no mention of lilly langtry though

Looking at Steinbeck's pedigree purely from the perspective of the male elements.

Every male entity, with the exception of Giant's Causeway, produces higher ratings(at second generation plus position) for distances of between 10 and

Looking at Steinbeck's pedigree purely from the perspective of the male elements.

Every male entity, with the exception of Giant's Causeway, produces higher ratings(at second generation plus position) for distances of between 10 and 12 1/2 furlongs compared to 7 1/2 to 10 furlongs.

This is for three year old horses only, the difference is between 2 and 5 lbs.

12 f be perfect for him

Prima Donna     20 Jun 10 09:19 
Is he really,take a closer look at his pedigree,he comes from a stout staying family to my eye he wants a trip beyond a mile.

I'd have a guess connections are now taking this view as well,I reckon his next outing will be in the Meld stakes at Leopardstown GR3,with the poss'he may go for the International at York and or Irish Champion over 10f,one things for sure his previous runs were not trials they were the targets just not good enough.I saw the great Gold Bubbles the only horse (filly)that Steinbeck has beaten was beaten in a Listed event today.

Still in the Eclipse...

No doubt you will be on then...........still see it the class that is

Am not sure yet tbh, looks a poorish race. Would love to see them chuck a visor on Fencing Master

I think you'r right does look a poor race,if he does go I'd guess he may only get a place,don't think he is showing a great deal tbh,get the impression 'nothing to loose',but time will tell.

Whats going to happen with Steinbeck, will he make a stallion at all? I'd say he might end up sold to race in Dubai

Whats going to happen with Steinbeck, will he make a stallion at all?

Well he doesn't warrant standing on basis of his racecourse performance and his pedigree doesn't make up for that. Hype will only take him so far in the betting market, the stallion market is tougher.Prime candidate for HIT sale or sale to M De K o c k

Runs in the Meld Stakes tomorrow fyi, 1m1f.

Thought that was the case,I did hear them talking about it at Royal Ascot later in the week after he was beaten,lets see how he get's on tomorrow.
BTW did you see Air Chief Marshal's race the other day?They are going for a GR2 next,if he gets cut I think he could be okay,I don't think either of them are GR1 class but that's only my opinion,Ballydoyle are not having the best season so far.Kirk seems to be in hiding away at the moment,I wonder if he still thinks S'beck is top class!

I've kind of given up on Steinbeck. Ballydoyle's whole season now really hinges on what St Nich does when he comes back, The 3yos theis year seem to be nearly all milers or mile and a half horses and it could just be that the two Champion stakes races might be soft enough, off the top of my head I can only think of Byword as looking a top class 1m2f performer and even that is more based on his performance behind Goldikova at 1m, Lope de Vega is an imponderable and Dick Turpin if stepped up shows potential,throw in Twice Over( doesn't set an insurmountable standard). It could still be all there for St Nick. Two Champions Stakes victories and they will have produced their Stallion for the year

Not seen Kirk for ages, if Steinbeck hacks up tomorrow sure he'll pop up ;) Be tough against Famous Name though who Weld does a great job with.
Air Chief Marshal's been trained cannily of late, like it when they give them a confidence booster and as you say seems to relish cut. Agree he's not Group 1 class but given the right coniditions he's more than capable.
Interesting to see how Fencing Master gets on tonight, with cheekpieces applied.

Any of the top 3 in the King George could be highly likely take in one of the Champion Stakes, there's also Mawatheeq and those you name above. If I owned Planteur I'd be running in the CS. Some other good French horses who may well be tempted by Newmarket in particular (Makfi, Siyouni).

I think all the King George horses are 1m4f horses, Planteur is probably one I missed out on alright, Siyouni would probably improve for the step up but i'd be dissapionted if he were good enough, Makfi is a horse I have no strong opinions about, 1 great run ,one awful run, thought he might have stuck to a mile. Two that would interest me aswell are the Rip although h'ed hardly run if St Nick did (on last years eclipse form he'd beat anything in training at 1m2f, and Paco Boy, bit of a curve ball this, not even sure he's entered but it's his last year so why not try. I think he'd certainly get 1m1 of it and he hassuch a relaxed style of racing.

Think they're more likely to drop down with Paco Boy for the Maurice De Gheest from what I'm hearing, that or the Jacques Marois I think I heard, after that Abbaye, Celebration Mile or QE2 perhaps? Nick Mordin thinks Canford would get 10f which is an interesting theory (not sure myself, although I'm not sure about D!ck either).
The point is that the KG horses are 1m4f horse is why they may want to go for the Champion Stakes.

Meant Foret not Abbaye!

would look good for them alright but all the better for something like St Nick if they were in it as I think he might have their measure on ground with a bit of cut, what I was kind of getting at is that although Ballydoyle aren't having a good year, they still have their best 3yo to come back fresh and I think the aforementioned two races are very winnable for him with what I think will turn out to be his best trip and ground, Could put a completely different complection on the year

might have their measure over 1m2f

ben10     21 Jul 10 14:10 

Interesting to see how Fencing Master gets on tonight, with cheekpieces applied.


ben10,I was at Naas last night F.Master looks well imo he ran okay given the ground but like so many of O'Briens looks short of what they hope for,I will see S'beck later as we shall be racing tonight,if your on good luckwe may have a runner[;)]not in S'beck race though!

Cheers Prima, not sure if I will tbh, although giving away a stone Famous Name will be tough to beat, hope Steinbeck puts up a show for you though ;)
Was talking about Fencing Master the other night, think if he was with another trainer he would have won some big handicaps (fast pace would suit) but probably isn't quite up to the top class standard that Ballydoyle require.
Best of luck with your runner

I don't blame you either ben,I think atm I'd just see how he gets on,the drop in class should help,but like you Famous Name is the danger.
That is a good point about F.Master re'another trainer,yes that could of been a good route to go with him.
We need all the luck tonight but the runner is in with a shout so fingers crossed!

I think Ballydoyle are a bit keen to repeat history this year and for me that means a win in the breeders cup mile.

I reckon Steinbeck was their great hope to do this but they quickly saw he wasnt up to the task about last xmass and bought starspangledbanner to guarentee victory 20 years on from Saint Vincent's famous win with Royal Academy with lester on board...

Id give my right arm to see Mick Kinane ride starspangled in the US....

Interesting theory, Steinbeck will win group races when stepped up in trip

i wouldnt be making any hard and fast judgements about any of obriens horses just now as they are nearly all running like drains.
they nearly always come good in the end though so i wouldnt write anything off yet.

On what I saw tonight, I'd say there is definite potential, so much the better if the stable is under a cloud, it makes the performance more meritable

For what its worth I was at the races tonight seeing Steinbeck I'd say he looked better tonight than he did at Ascot,his run this evening looked to be his best this season so far,he ran well seemed to me to like the trip was not fading at the end.
However this was only a GR3 and the winner was giving him a stone this performance needs be viewed in this context.On what I saw tonight I'd say yes he could is group class but imo falls short of GR1 standard.

Personally while Steinbeck looked top dollar I thought Famous Name outshone him in the ring and was amazed to hear Steinbeck was named best turned out. I backed Steinbeck at the odds but wow it was very impressive from Famous Name tonight giving a stone away he pretty much was in a different league to Steinbeck from my race viewpoint anyway.
I would agree PD about Steinbeck falling short of GRP1 standard probably a lot more imo and reviewing it in my head on the way home I think the fist season Footstepinthesand hype machine might have grabbed me in and probably a lot more in aswell.
At the end of the day its about the racetrack not the birds singing.
I have to add how Famous Name hasnt landed a big one yet is criminal
BTW Weld has a filly called Zaminast a half sister by Zamindar entered in one of those 2 year old race he farms at Galway

Horses improve all the way up to 5yo they say jmc.

perhaps Famous Name affirms that view.

Flat horses get retired so young and early i reckon over the years we've been denied some real

improver/superstars due to stud money.

Not saying FN is a superstar but you get my meaning.

I was at the races this evening and i heard talk that he might go for one of the ARC trials. I dont think he'll stay that far but could it happen he might only be coming in to himself now looked well tonight.

One thing I've said all along about him is he's a one paced galloper, think he showed it again last night. Famous Name ran a good race and after wfa gave Steinbeck 5lbs on top of that so I actually think that was Steinbeck's worst performance this year or at best no improvement.
Soft leads in small fields are probably his best chance of getting wins but not against a top class field. Will be interesting to see if they do go down the staying route, not 100% convinced a proper middle distance trip is what he wants although 1m2f looks no problem.

ben10     23 Jul 10 08:43 
One thing I've said all along about him is he's a one paced galloper, think he showed it again last night. Famous Name ran a good race and after wfa gave Steinbeck 5lbs on top of that so I actually think that was Steinbeck's worst performance this year or at best no improvement.

He has imo shown nothing to date that run last night I thought was a good effort.





. Will be interesting to see if they do go down the staying route, not 100% convinced a proper middle distance trip is what he wants although 1m2f looks no problem.

I would agree with this point,see he is going to the States,doubt he will return.

4th in the Irish Guineas? 3rd and 5th ain't let the form down too much tbf.
Saw that about America, interesting call, could be suited by the way US races are run.

could be suited by the way US races are run.

And the way the American trainers are free to use 'helpful enhancements',you know what I mean,lets hope he can save something for the sake of hype if nothing else .

Last night was the first time since his maiden win that he really ran to the line and finished out his race, He has a grand cruising speed to carry him to the two pole and when he strengthens up next year he could be a really good horse. Reminds me a bit of the Duke, when they get a clear run with him who knows what he could be.

I'd say not a lot at all,imo NEVER anything special,Footstepsinthesand is now stood near the end of the 'plank'waiting to fall into the sea,my guess he will be in Korea with the other star stallions from Coolmore next year!

If Steinbeck wins on dirt could they be tempted to send Footsteps to America with his dad to give him a go, or would his progeny be too fragile for dirt!

I doubt that ben,I don't think F'steps has done anywhere near enough to warrant a move to Kentucky,I could see Steinbeck winning in the states but I would not really want to see him going into the turns,as with his fragility the worst could happen,he poss' would win grade 2 and get a grade 1 place but he will need 'help' you know what I'm saying.........I would think that as you point out being a son of G C'way Footsteps would have some appeal overseas but not imo the states don't think they are tough enough,he will almost certainly be dead in the water this year at the sales,I'm sure we will see him off to somewhere like Turkey or India even Korea I reckon they will want him gone.Its a shame for him but the bloodstock market as you know is very unforgiving.