CatherineOfAragon

As a granddaughter of Miesque, yes.

I like the offspring of HRE but i do not like the fact that O'Brien is trying to run so many of them so early in the season your reply will be he was a very good 2 year old himself but that does not mean all his progeny will start early it's just a worry that i hope O'Brien will show how good HRE really is.

Rip van, I am with you totally on Holy Roman. Ballydoyle had him out really early himself and you can see why as when he started to work showed talent AND was tiny the temptation to crack on must have been there. However he actually improved for every run as a 2yo, he's out of a Secretariat mare and it's not really a precocious family I suspect he was slightly miss handled. It seems that people are taking his 2yo career as read but my guess is they will need a bit more time particularly given the 'classic' families a lot of them come from. Let's hope enough of them are robust enough to cope - if we're right ofcourse!

HRE was a small precocious horse who presumably will produce similar horses with little scope so if he doesnt excel this year he never will .There are loads of them being entered up at the moment and interestingly another one of his fillys out of a cracking Niarchos family ( Evening Star trained by David Wachman ) takes on O' Brien's filly at Navan on Sunday

Many years ago I did a sales season with Guy Harwood. Commenting on a certain family that I felt was slightly over-rated as it was precocious and always slightly under performed over time - for the money it used to make anyway - he said that one of the biggest mistakes trainers made was mistaking ability for precocity. This particular family ended up a lot with a certain trainer ( now dead) and Guy felt he was one of the worst offenders in this respect so he, Guy, didn't necessarily think the matter was quite as cut and dried as me. It's a lesson that stayed with me, and I am sure that for all the horses that escape unharmed for such rushing -Generous, out 2 May over 5f at 2 anyone!! - many more are ruined. H.R.E. was very sound as smaller horses often are so was out early, but the fact is his profile was that of an improver, and at the end of the season he would've got a mile. His offspring 'could' be the same. I for one am going to wait and see. . .

Interesting point PM , did you believe the story that HRE had the world as his oyster as a three year old before he 'had' to replace GW at stud ? I would worry about him if either of these bluebloods tomorrow dont show any ability given their pedigrees .One thing I remember about HRE as a racehorse was how Fallon used to always ' bury' him in a ruck of horses ( seemed to be deliberate policy on his part ) and how that seemed to suit him. One trainer I talked to earlier this year told me we would know a lot about HRE as a sire by Royal Ascot time....

Stellar, I don't think any of the HRE's sofar have shown themselves to be definitively useless- though rest assured there will be plenty such dobbins - though obviously your trainer acquaintance is in the 'precocious sire' camp. I try not to listen into Coolmore hype - they are just too good at it!

h.r.e. for me was not the great horse everyone seemed to think imo.anyone remember fasilav .same type of horse ,having seen several of h.r.e. runners close up i'm not impressed .

He's a horse that is going to get a good chance so hopefully he will prove he's worth it. I thought COA was quickening up nicely at the end so maybe there's improvement to come from them

I thought she gave an encouraging first run, stayed on nicely after being pushed along quite early on. seemed to show speed in the closing stages of the race. one for the notebook