Bloodstock & Breeding

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15 Apr 10 13:39
Date Joined: 25 Jun 09
| Topic/replies: 22 | Blogger: BigMover's blog
Have a Lil's Boy mare just after having a nice colt foal by Brian Boru. Want to put her in foal to some stallion that throws big foals as she is a handy enough sized mare, also a sire with a nice calm attitude as she can be high enough strung at times. Something around the €1k to €2k price range, would really appreciate some of the forums expertise, thanks!
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Report BigMover April 15, 2010 1:41 PM BST
Also, just to clarify, we're West of Ireland based and far south stallions aren't the most appealing but if the right sire was there then of course the trip would be made (As always!) !
Report Lairy Mary April 15, 2010 6:54 PM BST
Exit to Nowhere - not sure where he is based - used to be Scarvagh in NI. He is a really lovely stamp of horse and I would say would throw a bit of size.

Needle Gun (Wales) and half-brother, Luso (Wexford) - both tough, game, sound types. Involved with pointer by Needle Gun and it has now won 10 times - great temperament too.

Vinnie Roe - you couldn't get gamer or more genuine - not sure how big they would be - hes at Coolmore I think.

As is Mountain High - remember him being a big horse so he could well throw decent types.

Helissio - in UK (Dorset) - lovely type and he is a big horse.

Pilsudski - tough quality horse, rather forgotten about after a stint in Japan. Not sure where he is, TBH.
Report RipVanWinkle April 15, 2010 7:59 PM BST
Scorpion is the horse i would reccommened lovely horse great scope and has lovely foals on the ground. Another horse i like is Germany standing in Galway sire of Captian Cee Bee
Report jungleboogie April 16, 2010 8:42 AM BST
Golden Tornado
Bobs Return(have a 5year mare by him)
Report pimm April 16, 2010 6:19 PM BST
big mover! I have just the man! PHOENIX REACH!
Report Lairy Mary April 16, 2010 7:26 PM BST
Having seen some by PR, can't say I'd be queuing up to use him - that and the fact he wasn't over sound. Not what I'd want in a jumping sire.
Report pimm April 16, 2010 8:10 PM BST
ran 16 times, win and place 8, 3 gp 1,s,must have been sound for most of them!lol, tough as teak!
Report squirrel1 April 16, 2010 10:25 PM BST
I have a good size 3 yr old now by catcher in the rye,he is at castlehyde .how is the brian boru as i have just also covered a lils boy mare by him ?
Report Lairy Mary April 16, 2010 10:34 PM BST
Phoenix Reach actually was not the soundest of horses - something even his trainer would admit. He split a pastern after his debut and then injured himself in Australia when training for the Melbourne Cup. He was tough but he was not what you would call sound. If you are looking to avoid potential problems especially when there is far more likelihood of injury jumping, then I would not advocate using a sire that has one, possibly two fractures. It just doesn't make sense.
Report pimm April 17, 2010 6:38 PM BST
lairy, your info is incorrect,he has never set foot in australia! and did not break down before being trained for the mel cup! 2year old problem is correct.
Report Lairy Mary April 17, 2010 11:31 PM BST
My mistake, Pimm - I assumed he was in Australia as I knew that had been the target with him. However I did find this quote on him:

"The Million marks Phoenix Reach's first start in more than a year, since the 2005 King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes, where he finished 10th and subsequently was found to have a small fracture in his leg. Broken bones are nothing new to Phoenix Reach. One start into his 2-year-old season, Phoenix Reach was put away for more than a year with a split pastern, a significant injury to a foreleg that required surgery to insert a metal plate and screws. And, at the end of his 3-year-old season, Phoenix Reach was found to have a hairline fracture, though this injury merely required rest."

on an ESPN website so it seems that he was even more unsound than even I first thought. And as I said, I most definitely won't recommend him as a jumping sire with such a weakness.
Report TiptheOdds April 18, 2010 1:02 AM BST
BM, Exit to Nowhere is listed as 4,000 quid.

I´m no expert - and it depends a lot on the pedigree and background of your mare - but I would say that Silver Patriarch or Snurge at 2,500 are probably decent value, and SP at least would probably give the foal some size. As was already mentioned, Helissio is also a good choice - still young and only 2,500 pounds. Any of these three would have the potential to produce something good imo.

Alternatively, you might want to look at some of the German stallions, their price is probably very competitive compared with UK/Ire, and you should get something with size and the ability to handle soft ground.
Report Prima Donna April 18, 2010 6:46 AM BST
Err, Silver Patriarch is dead!
Report Allduckornodinner April 18, 2010 8:09 AM BST
Snurge is dead too.
Report Allduckornodinner April 18, 2010 9:02 AM BST
You should have a look at Court Cave who stands for 1500 in Boardsmill Stud in Meath. He is a plenty big enough (around 16.1h) and sires nice types. Oliver McKiernan has a few nice young horses by him and I saw a few other attractive stores at the sales last year. They sell well too because they generally walk well and show themselves off.
Report TiptheOdds April 18, 2010 10:40 AM BST
That´ll be why they´re so cheap then.
Report Prima Donna April 18, 2010 10:49 AM BST
You could say that! Ring Heaven to ask if you can send some mare's....................I think its a one way trip only!
Report BigMover April 18, 2010 11:52 AM BST
Squirrel1, sorry about the delay. The BB colt out of the Lil's Boy mare is a nice foal, not overly big but then the mare is not a big mare, nice foal tho, we're happy with him
Report BigMover April 18, 2010 12:03 PM BST
Thanks everyone for all their suggestions. One I like, at this price range ( €2.5k), is Court Cave for a couple of reasons. One, his full brother Beat Hollow is shaping up as a strong stallion in the UK, CC has a little more size than his brother (15'3 - 16'1), obv. sons of Saddlers Wells have strong shouts at becoming good stallions, and I also have just got a mare in foal to Kalanisi up in Trim with Boardsmill and both the people, farm and location all suit me. Think CC will be my call this year with this particular mare. Thanks again for all your input
Report BigMover April 18, 2010 12:05 PM BST
NOTE: that post didn't seem to pick up on the less than sign I put up before the €2,500 figure, that is the price range, with Court Cave being around €1,500 I believe
Report pimm April 18, 2010 12:25 PM BST
Good luck big mover.
Report Allduckornodinner April 18, 2010 12:32 PM BST
Sure you might get him a bit cheaper again if your dealing with them already Bigmover given how anxious stud farms are to get breeders in this year.

What did you think of Kalanisi when you saw him? I haven't seen him in the flesh but the few stores I did see last year weren't outstanding to be honest.

Good luck with them anyway!
Report Arkle's Shadow April 18, 2010 1:01 PM BST
Would you be willing to take a chance on Lucarno? Stands for 2k and from a very good family on both sides.
Report BigMover April 21, 2010 7:05 PM BST
allduck.... ya Kalanisi isn't the most impressive I've seen, doubt he 16 hands, but stands over a nice bit of ground, longish profile, good for hurdling. Nice demeanour, I've a good feeling about him. The mare that was covered by him is a massive black type mare that had tons of speed so I'm hoping for a nice forward juvenile hurdling type with her. Liked the look of Court Cave, good stamp of a horse, well bred, worth a try at the money with the other mare.
Report Allduckornodinner April 21, 2010 7:34 PM BST
Yeah sure Kalanisi would bring in a bit of class and toughness for his part anyway. He would be a good ground influence too.

Like the look of Court Cave as a value sire. Think he throw plenty of 4yo p2p winners. We've a mare runnin at the moment that prob be put in foal soon. He is top of my list anyway.
Report Lairy Mary April 22, 2010 12:07 AM BST
Any idea why Court Cave never made the racecourse?
Report BigMover April 23, 2010 7:36 PM BST
Court Cave damaged a fetlock in training as a 2yo
Report pimm April 24, 2010 2:51 PM BST
lairy mary will knock poor old court cave now then! lol, not a sound horse!
Report Lairy Mary April 24, 2010 4:33 PM BST
You're not wrong there! It may have been a perfectly innocent injury but equally it may have been caused by a weakness. So for a jumps sire, I personally would rather use a horse that has run rather than been injured and unraced. But there again Fairy King didn't race and he made a pretty good sire.
Report Prima Donna April 24, 2010 7:24 PM BST
L.Mary,Fairy King did race,only the once but being a full bro' to Sadlers Wells was always going to get the chance,Court Cave should get a chance too as he is a full bro' to a very sound and tough horse in Beat Hollow,I think that jump sires should as a rule be well tried and be sound you could make some exceptions Court Cave being one of those,A very sound tough horse standing as a jump sire is Double Trigger,but for all his soundness he is a flop as a sire,Court Cave is imo a nice prospect who gets nice sorts,thats always a good start for any stallion.
Report Lairy Mary April 24, 2010 11:47 PM BST
Oh don't get me wrong - looking at Court Cave he is a very, very nice stamp of horse - I was just curious to know what the problem was. I, too find it amazing about Double Trigger when you think of how tough he was but a few people have said to me they wouldn't touch him now as he was prone to throwing stock which were fragile.
Report BigMover April 25, 2010 1:36 PM BST
One last point about Court Cave, it's not just being a full brother to Beat Hollow that is attractive in his pedigree. His dam is a full sister to Oasis Dream's dam Hope, and a comparison of the two mares highlight that Wemyss Bight was in fact a multiple group winning mare compared to an average race career by Hope. Oasis Dream stands at 65k GBP in the UK. I sound like Im on the payroll of Court Cave's people but I'm not!
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