Bloodstock & Breeding
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24 Jan 10
07:41
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03 Jun 07
Someone told me a long time a go that Saddlers Wells offspring cant jump fences properly, giving its ability to breed superstars on the flat it makes it all the more puzzling.
At the moment i love horses by Kings Theatre but i cant really think of any true stayers or 10/11yos by that stallion, maybe its too early to judge.
Old Vic is doing well as a staying stallion but a lot of them are quirky, especially late in their careers.
I wont bother starting on the longevity of Montjeu's offspring, anyone backing his offspring for a champion hurdle deserves to lose all their money.
At the moment i love horses by Kings Theatre but i cant really think of any true stayers or 10/11yos by that stallion, maybe its too early to judge.
Old Vic is doing well as a staying stallion but a lot of them are quirky, especially late in their careers.
I wont bother starting on the longevity of Montjeu's offspring, anyone backing his offspring for a champion hurdle deserves to lose all their money.
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Funnily enough the RP was asking if we are in a golden era of british jump stallions yesterday.............its a long time since we've had proven top class jump sires in the UK.Twenty years ago we had stallions like Oats,Celtic Cone and Ardross,Idiots Delight,and Sula Bula,now apart from Kayf Tara,and Midnight Legend we have a lot of new or failed stallions,imo both Kayf Tara and Midnight Legend need a grade one winner or they could look a bit shaky but at the moment both are commercial.I dont know about S.Wells stock not jumping,but his sons are doing well,Old Vic is top class,I remember him at Dalham Hall at the time I said he would make a great jumping stallion which was laughed off.Ireland has imo the best jump stallions by a mile,I like Old Vic and Kings Theatre,both the Robins esp'De Pres,and one for the future is Westerner,one im not keen on is Scorpion he was a good horse but his family are not producers.
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Milans are worth looking out for, solid start.
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I cant wait for Westerners offspring, probably be a bargain to be had in his early years.
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Did you see any Scorpions they really look the part very strong and developed for there age.
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Rip Van,yes ive seen a few of the Scorpion's they do look good sorts,but as he comes from Ardross's family im a bit cold as ive used both Ardross and his son Alderbrook and got nothing of note,also Alflora is not really doing it, he too is of that family
He is a nice sort i hope he proves me wrong! I think i remember you saying you are sending one to him? |
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Does anyone know whats happend to Petoski? he must be dead now, never used him but did see him at stallion show at Uttox' he was a super looking horse,Was thinking about him today cant remember any news!
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pd, petoski died in 2004; still has a handful of runners over jumps.
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Thanks Josh,I never knew that,a great looking horse.
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One stallion I recommend to keep an eye on is Golden Tornado.
From limited opportunities he seems to be doing well, dancing tornado being his best progeny so far Golfen Tornado is by Sadlers Wells |
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self praise is no praise but..
jungleboogie 08 Feb 08:51 One stallion I recommend to keep an eye on is Golden Tornado. From limited opportunities he seems to be doing well, dancing tornado being his best progeny so far Golfen Tornado is by Sadlers Wells Berties Dream winning the albert bartlett was a huge success for Golden tornado. by all accounts hes going to have a few bumper/maiden hurdle winners over next few months |
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Daylami might be interesting.
Was a flat sire until 2006, but was then packed off in disgrace to S Africa having failed to set the flat alight. Has produced a lot of good hurdlers though,most presumably out of flat orientated mares. Now returned to Ireland to stand as a NH sire. Could have 8 or 9 good years left. |
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Daylami is a very nice sort to stand as a jumping sire ultra tough a really good type, fantastic racehorse I think he won 6 GR1s from a mile to a mile and a half,he does get nice sorts too so I hope he does well.Can you imagine what the expert breeders on here would of said if I suggested him poss being considered as a future jumps sire before or after his first crop which included a Derby winner.They would all think me mad ,all telling me what a outstanding horse he was,all telling me it was a ludicrous thought. imo none of those breeders can see beyond the end of their nose's
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I just wonder if Daylami will get far more hurdlers then he does chasers, as I'm not sure how scopey they'll be in general.
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Formboy makes some good points, not seen any that look natural chasers and I have my doubts about them progressing after they reach around 5 years old (being bred with a different type of mare may change that). They also like quick ground which obviously isn't around much in Winter. I do think his horses are very tough and genuine though and he does seem to pass on ability.
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He certainly has done better with hurdlers than chasers. Having said that I ruled Pigeon Island out of The Grand Annual on the grounds that he is by Daylami and the ground appeared to have turned softish. Luckily I forgot to lay him.
As was said at the beginning of the thread Sadlers Wells produced lots of good hurdlers and not many decent chasers, but of course he covered flat mares throughout his career as did Daylami in his first stint in ireland. He is now definitely being marketed as a NH sire so he might well get a different type from now on. |
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I am quite taken by Rathbarry's Robin des Champs myself. Has produced a smashing 2 week old colt for me
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Pigeon Islands win was down to his handicap mark being around a stone lower comapared to hurdles!
He lacks scope and is n't a natural, although he does seem to be improving. |
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I intend to keep an eye out for Robin Du Champs progeny at the Tatts foal sale in November, does anyone know if he is getting good mares?
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"""Someone told me a long time a go that Saddlers Wells offspring cant jump fences properly, giving its ability to breed superstars on the flat it makes it all the more puzzling."""
Syncronised has won the Midlands National recently and SWells he has had some Cheltenham winners too. Jumping ability is not passed on from the sire - it is learnt. SW doesn't pass on stamina and this is why he probably does not have that many NH superstars - given the chance he could have been given a stamina influence from the dam (but why would you breed stamina into the best sire in modern times - they mostly bred it to speed). Daylami - I agree and he is interesting me as future NH stallion. |
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ttt
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Interesting thread now with benefit of hindsight.
Some good calls on stallions future. I must start one for future stallions when I get a chance. |
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I also think that size is an issue though. The typical chaser is bigger that a flat or hurdle horse. There are always exceptions of course but in my experience progeny of Saddlers Wells, Galileo and any from Aga Khan mares do well over hurdles but very rarely do they match their hurdle form over fences. It could be as much to do with the dams selected as the sires.
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interesting how the next 10 years fair
I will put forward Capri 5k euro a new NH stallion with serious potential, and his Irish derby form of beating Cracksman, Wings of Eagles and Waldgeist suggest he has it in his blood. His form might have tapered off but if he never raced again after the Irish derby he wouldn't be available for 5k. The stamp of a mighty stallion and my crystal ball spies greatness |