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Khan321
26 Jan 16 06:03
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Date Joined: 24 Nov 03
| Topic/replies: 1,716 | Blogger: Khan321's blog
I've spent years and year enjoying the magnificent spectacle of how trainer / drivers decide to drive their horses so have decided to start a collection of them for historians to marvel at in years to come.

The first contribution was run today, in Qld by Graeme Harris.  Graeme settles behind the leader on 46/1 shot Sodeska but, inspired by his 1 win from 44 starts at the track, decides to come off the fence and attack the leader in a 28.5 first quarter on a T4 trotter.   You wouldn't believe anyone could decide to do but here you go.   Sodeska is gone about 200m later and swiftly goes into reverse, ultimately beaten 128 metres.

http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=QLD&raceCode=APC26011610
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Report VeryLTU January 27, 2016 3:48 AM GMT
im predicting an epic collection here, possibly extending to exceed even the political threads total page count.
Report Khan321 February 8, 2016 11:40 AM GMT
Tonights effort was from Paul Grech.  Paul won two races on Mister Oz around New Years with the assistance of his good gate speed and some nice, cheap lead times, followed by slow first, second and even third sectionals.  He managed to win a 1720m race in possibly the slowest time ever recorded of 2:04.9.  That was well done but now as a T2 opposition that let you get away with that such cheap sectionals are very scarce.

Undeterred Paul now appears to be operating on the common trainer / driver assumption that if you lead and win in one race, all you need to do is lead in other races and you'll win them too.  He's heading to the front and checking the stopwatch later.  He led two starts ago in a strong standing start race and came ninth.  Tonight however worked three wide for ages to lead from barrier 11, in a brisk 46.2 second lead time to boot.  600m out he was going backwards like one of Donkey Kongs barrels, before finishing 64m last.

Apparently stewards have questioned the run which seems astonishing, when the horse did exactly what you'd expect.  I would be querying the drive with special interest in just how many T2 races Paul thinks Mister Oz can win after leading from barrier 11 in a 46.2 lead time.
Report tyre kicker February 8, 2016 12:23 PM GMT
Drives all his horse like that. Very one dimensional.....delusional
Report Khan321 March 4, 2016 7:45 AM GMT
The latest effort raises some interesting issues.  At Ararat on Wednesday John Meade drove 40/1 Glorious Finale very hard for quite some time early to try to hold out the $1.30 favourite. It was by then clear that Glorious Finale would be finishing this race without much glory, but he then quickly CAME OFF THE FENCE, i.e. swapped the hard-earned best position in the race for one of the worst.  A few years ago this would have blown my mind but I've now seen it too many times to be shocked.

He then APPLIED PRESSURE TO THE LEADER for quite some time.  This was terribly damaging to his prospects, and came on top of the extremely heavy work that had already done.  So around 600m from home Glorious Finale shifted out three wide and to nobodies surprise went backwards like a bowling ball, ultimately finishing 111 metres from the winner.

Why would someone drive their horse in a manner that would certainly get them beaten a very long way?  Fortunately for us the stewards asked a very similar question, and were told that the horse was susceptible to breaking gait and 'it was his intention at that stage to give Glorious Finale clear racing room'.

This is an interesting argument as I have on many, many occasions observed that trainer / drivers are deliriously infatuated with giving their horses racing room, to a degree that is shared by nobody else except perhaps Kerryn Manning.  It's very rare to find a trainer / driver on the fence unless it's in the lead, because they just love, love, love their racing room.  But it is reasonable to argue that you really love racing room and if getting it results in you getting beat by 111 metres then so be it?

Apparently it is.  Stewards said 'they felt that the tactics adopted by him were not unreasonable under the circumstances and recorded his comments', and I find this appalling.  How on earth is it remotely acceptable to pull your head off for a long way and then tire terribly and inevitably to finish a distant, distant last??  Isn't that the exact kind of thing stewards are there to stop??  What kind of drives DO they find unacceptable if not one like this?  I don't know whether to be astonished or just sad.

Here's the video so you can judge for yourself:  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=ARC02031608

Apparently we can look forward to more drives just like it, and that's fine by everyone.
Report spyvspy27 March 4, 2016 9:08 AM GMT
Fk me, not unreasonable ffs
Report Khan321 March 23, 2016 8:58 AM GMT
We have good news to report!  Mister Oz is a last start winner (in a sparkling 1:58.7) at Melton on March 16.  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=MXB16031606

And in his first run after that 111 metre flogging Glorious Finale did not find a $1.30 favourite to get into a blistering speed duel with so after finding the lead unchallenged and promptly bolted in, at 4/1.  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=HMC21031608

This massive variation in performance is very common from trainer / drivers.  They try the same thing time after time and it's usually a disaster, but every now and then it works and they look awesome.  Professional drivers will do what's best for a given situation but trainer / drivers don't think as much and just do what has worked in one situation before.   When challenged by stewards they'll say 'my horse goes best driven this way' but that's true by definition.  If you continually drive a horse one way it must have 'gone best' that way, whatever that happens to be.  Unfortunately looking at form and thinking what might work best in a given situation does not seem to be highly regarded.

So this means that we can still expect Glorious Finale, despite now starting an extra 10 metres behind, will blazing towards the lead early and engaging fiercely with anyone who might stand in his way, completely regardless of their form.  This will work sometimes (and mean starting back another 10 metres) and be a disaster many times as well.  Don't say you weren't warned.
Report gardenstar March 23, 2016 10:45 AM GMT
Khan...at least you know what to expect from these guys. Put the professionals on and then you have to rely on if tonights your night or wait your turn !
Report eight ball March 23, 2016 11:22 AM GMT
Of the 2 Human assisted codes,Harness allows the Hobbyist to be the Pilot.
Now I do understand a pet is a pet is a friend etc but when they have those Young Driver series etc I see plenty of moves(right/wrong)plenty of action and fewer you go there I'll stay here and hope my pet can run a last 1/4 in 25 just so I can get 5th place $50.
Does the Code need so called Professional only Pilots ?,I dunno.
There are serial camels in Thoroughbred also and it would take a brave CEO to say..We need to have a talk about your Pet been Totally Noncompetitive and No you can't use the... but it's been unlucky it's last 8 starts line.
I'm sure plenty would say we pay our fees so it's our right to complete etc but I would like them to have a refresher school for the Harness Breeder come Sole owner come Sole trainer come Sole driver brigade.
Report clint smoker March 24, 2016 2:11 PM GMT
The worst drive I've seen in a long time, and one that cost me a huge collect was last Friday 18 March, race 3 at Gloucester Park.

Jocelyn Young driving 2nd fav #10 Znana starting right behind #1 and 1.3 fav Glenferrie Rustler. After a routine beginning with very little pressure, Glenferrie Rustler is leading and Znana sitting right behind. As they went past the home straight the first time, the one wide line was lagging back a little, and so Jocelyn decides to leave the absolute best position in the race and sit in the breeze soon to be 1-1. She maintains that position and sure enough as they go down the straight to greet the bell, the 3 wide line emerges blocking her in. Znana doesn't see space till it's too late and can't make the quick acceleration. Znana finishes 7th and 23m behind the winner.

After Znana came off the pegs, #11 Bonny Under Fire who was initially 3 back the pegs, is gifted what should have been Znana's position behind 1.3 fav Glenferrie Rustler, gaining the best run of the race. Bonny has an easy run in the slipstream, sees daylight at the right time, and wins the race by 4m. #12 Authorized who was initially 4 back the pegs, ended up 3 back the pegs, and duly finished 3rd.

I don't think any driver in the world would have recommended making that move. I cannot understand how it was ever in Jocelyn's mind to do what she did. On a tight inside and leader biased track like Gloucester, when sitting behind leader and dominant fav, why would you ever want to cover more distance and most likely get blocked weak/tiring horses?

The only person I can remember seeing do this at Gloucester before behind a similarly strong fav, is the legendary Kyle Harper.

Stewards report: ZNANA (Jocelyn Young) – Stewards questioned driver Jocelyn Young in regard to the tactics she adopted in tonight’s event, in particular the reasons for leaving the position behind the leader to race at the lead of the one out line racing out of the front straight on the first occasion.  ZNANA was then unable to find clear running in the back straight on the final occasion before shifting up the track and gaining clear running leaving the back straight on the final occasion.  Ms Young put forward that she felt she had erred in her judgement by shifting off the marker pegs leaving the front straight on the first occasion, and in hind sight would have been far better suited remaining on the favourite and leaders back GLENFERRIE RUSTLER NZ (Michael Tenardi).  Stewards advised Ms Young that they also believed she had erred in her judgement and if she was to drive in a similar manner going forward action may be taken against her reinspersons licence.  When assessing the drive Stewards took into account Ms Young’s relative inexperience and her forthright evidence.

Watch for yourselves - http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=WA&raceCode=GPM18031618
Report Khan321 May 18, 2016 11:47 AM BST
Tonight Neville Welsh careered away from the field while holding the lead early on T0 trotter Aldebaran Midnite in a stunningly fast 37.6 second lead time in race 2 at Bendigo here:  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=BNC18051607

He was then pressured for the lead by the $1.30 favourite who was pulling hard, but decided against handing up to it in favour of flying along until about the 800 before shifting into reverse and being beaten over 83 metres.

I see the stewards questioned him and marvel at what possible explanations could have been offered for such an effort.  Perennial favourite 'my horse goes best in front' would be ridiculous as the last couple of times the horse has led it's run extremely slow first halves and still gone poorly.  In nine attempts at leading the horse has never won and this was the strongest race it had faced for some time so there was no reason to expect that would change this time.  Gear failure is the only thing I can dream of, surely there's nothing else left.  However stewards have a long record of accepting every explanation as reasonable no matter what it is so I look forward to seeing what happens this time.
Report Khan321 December 16, 2016 9:46 AM GMT
At Shepparton a couple of weeks ago Rita Burnett drove 35/1 shot Miss Pegasus to burn hard early, trying to take the lead from $1.70 favourite Getthenet (who ultimately cruised home in this and his only subsequent run).  She did not succeed and soon enough after went backwards and then galloped, finishin 178m behind the leader.

Miss Pegasus's previous run had a similar style, keeping the speed on early before getting beat 96 metres over a mile, this time without galloping.

Here are both runs:
http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=SPC30111607
http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=KIC23111607

Note that in the earlier run Rita was cautioned for careless driving. 

After the second drive, stewards had some questions.  'Ms Burnett was issued a caution for her lack of judgment as when it was established the lead was not available, she elected to continue challenging Sumo Grin for the lead which lacked judgment given the recent form of Miss Pegasus. In not taking more severe action against Mr Burnett, Stewards were mindful that Miss Pegasus was found to be lame post-race and as such they could not be satisfied the driving tactics were the sole reason for the final finishing position of the mare.'

I.e. From 9 starts now the horse has been beaten an average of 103 metres in each of them.  So apparently it's hard to tell if the aggressive driving was the sole reason for it finishing 178m back this time.

In the horses 'recent form', and in fact every last part of it's form, it is being beaten long distances.  There's nothing anywhere that supports the horse being driven aggressively in any way.  I'm also depressed  that you can get a caution one race and then put in a poor drive the next and just get another caution.  What's the point of cautions if they're just ignored and make no difference to anything?

HRV show no signs of keeping any track of their warnings and cautions, and (sensibly enough I guess) nor do Victorian drivers.  It seems very amateur hour to me.
Report Khan321 December 16, 2016 10:07 AM GMT
Tonight at Ballarat we had a notable contribution from M J Barker, driving a horse 'Clarius NZ' trained by K J Barker (I include people I haven't heard of with the same surname in the Trainer / Driver category).

Clarius was urged very, very strongly to hold the lead from second favourite Satans Outlaw, who is renowned for running along hard in front.  Approaching the bell Clarius shifted out badly and shoved Satans Outlaw three wide, ensuring it had absolutely no chance and giving a dream inside run to the ultimate winner Delta Safari.  Clarius then started going backwards and badly blocked the $2.30 favourite Citysneak before finishing last, 98m from the leader.

It's rare and difficult for one driver to take out both the favourite and second favourite in a single race so I wouldn't like M J Barker's drive tonight to go unrecognised.  The stewards have also joined in the fun and queried the driving tactics on display.  I for one am greatly looking forward to finding out what answer they get.  The last time the horse led was just three runs ago and stewards queried its poor performance so it would take some real balls to try and get 'my horse goes best in front' past Vic stewards tonight.  I will marvel and marvel if that happens, time will tell.
Report gardenstar December 16, 2016 10:55 AM GMT
Smarter than you think.
Report Khan321 March 27, 2017 10:48 AM BST
At Globe Derby today Swaffham Success started 50/1 on the basis of earning $610 total from 8 starts to date.  In ran second last start after sitting behind the leader in a very slow 2:09.4 mile rate.

Somehow trainer driver David Jolly felt that this warranted driving up in the first (and fastest by a fair bit) quarter of 30.7 seconds to hold the death from favourite Baking Hot.  Very few SA trotters can handle such a quick pace early and Swaffham Success is clearly not among them.  The quarters got slower and slower from then on and it (and the favourite) collapsed soon after and finished 58 metres behind the leader.  The stewards have justifiably queried this drive and it's impossible to see any justification for it.
Report VeryLTU March 28, 2017 1:22 AM BST
Laugh... yep, in vic recently we had two jokers finish an average 60 lengths tailed off last after incredibly brazen slaughter jobs out in front, even wayne the stopper was having a chuckle and pointing the finger. The investigation found both riders had not given their horses "every possible".... and handed out a massive week or two suspension and slapped a massive tea money fine.
Nothing to worry about with integrity in victoria LaughLaugh ......  i reckon after all the nikolic and cobalt carp .... Terry's had enough and couldn't be bothered anymore CoolGrin
Report Khan321 March 29, 2017 11:43 AM BST
'After considering his evidence and viewing the film the Stewards admonished Mr Jolly for his drive in particular when there was an opportunity to allow BAKING HOT to obtain the position outside the leader and enable his horse to have cover, after having worked hard in the early stages.'

ADMONISHED!?!?!?!?!  I.e. Absolutely nothing.  Even 'warnings' are eventually acted upon once or twice a year but 'admonished' signifies a previously unknown level of steward inertia.  What more could he have done to get some action from them?  This was Olympic level slaughtering and they did zero.  So depressing.  It seems like anything goes in SA harness and nobody cares about it.
Report Jack Morris March 30, 2017 12:35 AM BST
F@ck me who was the clown in charge of that meeting should not have a job ffs.
Anything goes after that.
Report Khan321 April 1, 2017 1:02 PM BST
The drive for which David Jolly was 'admonished' is this:  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=SA&raceCode=GDC27031709

Five days later (and just a few hours ago) he produces this effort:  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=SA&raceCode=GDC01041707

He leads early and runs along hard on Ima Skybabe.  One again running a 30.9 first quarter and once again refusing to hand up to a favourite, until (once again) his horse is going backwards so fast he has no other possible option. This time Ima Skybabe is beaten 86 metres which is even worse than the 58 metres Swaffham was defeated by.  After such a tough run the favourite came second, run down by a swooper who came from way back.

And guess what?  Did the stewards actually follow on their admonition of 5 days ago?  No they did not.  Did they jump straight to a suspension this time?  No they did not.  Did they do anything at all?  So far as I can tell, no they did not.  An admonition is as worthless as it sounds and they didn't even bother to give him another one.  Keep it up David.  Nobody keeps track of anything and these sorts of drives are just fine in SA.
Report Khan321 June 22, 2017 3:58 AM BST
Today at Maryborough race 1 trainer driver David Murphy positioned his horse Variance superbly into a perfect position behind the leader from where the race would be won, but unfortunately by another horse.  Like so many trainer drivers before him David did not like being behind the leader on his $3.40 chance and chose to quickly move to the death, where it always looked to be struggling before finishing second last.  So wasteful.  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=MHC22061709

Hangin On A Dream took his position behind the leader, and went on to win the race.  The horse 2 behind the leader came second and the leader finished third.  Fence runners finished 1,2,3 as we've seen in thousands of races, but trainer drivers never seem to get the message.  I feel like every trainer driver should be forced to watch a hundred replays of Chris Lang winning races from behind the leader before they're allowed to drive.

There's an interesting trainer driver race at Maryborough at 4:03pm today.  Into The Unknown has sky high ability for trainer driver Donna Lewis, but she has only won 1 race from 14 drives on it.  Other drivers have won 4 from 7.  Can she win her second race on it today?
Report Khan321 June 22, 2017 6:35 AM BST
That Maryborough race is a really good insight into the dramatic affect having a trainer drive your horse makes.  Donna tried going forward on ITTU once, at her second start, on a very wet night at Ararat and it didn't work outs so from then on she's driven it strictly one way, dropping out and coming with one run at them.  This's a very difficult way to win trotting races but it actually worked once in those 14 drives, so she seems to keep thinking this is the best way to drive it and seems to only drive it that way now.

Other drivers have jumped on and driven it differently, and with vastly higher success rates as noted above but Donna doesn't seem to have been watching those drives.  Kerryn Manning drove it like a tank and it ran a magnificent race in the death throughout last start and it just missed out on winning in a blistering 1:58.3 mile rate.  That is Group race winning form and if Kerryn was driving the horse today you would know it was going forward and happily take $1.25 about it.

However as a general rule trainer drivers tend to decide that only one way of driving a horse is best, and lock themselves into driving it that way every start regardless of form or opposition.  She will probably drop way back on it early and be needing miracles to win from there.  This explains why her winning strike rate on the horse is so low, but I don't really understand why she keep doing it.
Report Khan321 July 1, 2017 7:36 AM BST
As predicted Donna did indeed drop Into The Unknown out to last at Maryborough, as a $4.10 second favourite, and when the leader (and winner) sprints home in 57.9 coming from last in a field of 12 is utterly impossible.  http://www.harness.org.au/video-replay.cfm?state=VIC&raceCode=MHC22061706

However it seems that something was learnt from that experience as at Geelong last Thursday Donna raced ITU in the death!!!  Admittedly it was as a $1.30 favourite against bunnies and it won in a very slow 2:04 mile rate compared to the 1:58.3 it just got beat at Melton recently, but the possibility that the horse will not exclusively be driven from last by her is a great relief to anyone thinking of backing her driving it.  Congratulations Donna!

It seems that some trainer drivers are capable of adapting to different circumstances!!  This is a very happy day for me, there is hope.
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE July 1, 2017 12:27 PM BST
I told her to take a peek at the thread.
Report Jack Morris July 13, 2017 3:49 AM BST
How hot is Bathurst trots at the moment one bloke in particular running the show and the stewards
don't have a clue.
Report Jack Morris July 28, 2017 11:43 AM BST
Now the rorters are at young ffs
Report Jack Morris August 2, 2017 10:04 AM BST
Another one race three @ Bathurst
Report Jack Morris August 9, 2017 11:01 AM BST
Two more rorts for Bathurst tonight races 2 and 3 they just do what they like.
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