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Lloydy Trots Man
16 Feb 15 10:18
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Feb 04
| Topic/replies: 5,203 | Blogger: Lloydy Trots Man's blog
Sickning Story.
Big names Heads will Roll.
Im in shock myself, knew it happened but didnt realise so Cruel
Pause Switch to Standard View Four Corners, Greyhound Racing will...
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Report Aussie Driver February 16, 2015 10:25 AM GMT
Give me 10 minutes in a room with those c***s


Oh, hang on, they are going somewhere where they will share a cell with worse LaughLaugh
Report bigted. February 16, 2015 10:33 AM GMT
im not gonna watch,can't handle any animal cruelty...from what im reading the scenes were dispicable

poor puppies Sad
Report VeryLTU February 16, 2015 10:35 AM GMT
oh dear oh dear oh dear. The dogs had been going so well with their integrity public relations exercises. That's just been shot to bits..... i was wondering why the job networks employment agencies bs story had been put back a week. The greyhound PR machine won't have the chance to dull the episodes sensation. Can't wait for the "dole bludgers" experiences to air next week. Shame Howard Shame.
Report Aussie Driver February 16, 2015 10:42 AM GMT
This is the end of sport pretty much.

Never has so much of a sport been exposed. They have missed no one
Report tyre kicker February 16, 2015 10:45 AM GMT
Tabcorp must take a lot of the blame
Report ghoststory. February 16, 2015 10:50 AM GMT
Deplorable in so many ways....

In just the 30 minutes i watched until my 12 year old started crying and I turned it off
It managed to make the trainers look like illiterate, barbaric, lying scum from some
backwater in the 1900's.

Great job choice for the CEO who took bullets too
Report bigted. February 16, 2015 10:50 AM GMT
and poor bugs bunnie rabbits Sad
Report Aussie Driver February 16, 2015 10:54 AM GMT
Does anyone know if McDonald has had runners in the last couple of days?

Surely all these blokes are banned for life immediately?
Report VeryLTU February 16, 2015 10:56 AM GMT
must have been v. small incredibly well camouflaged cameras, because some of the shots from head height were from seemingly open spots inside the track and from fences facing the tracks.
Report tyre kicker February 16, 2015 10:58 AM GMT
McDonalds put them in his wife's name
Report Aussie Driver February 16, 2015 11:00 AM GMT
ffs

surely they just suspend all of his former runners from this minute
Report shiver me timbers February 16, 2015 11:03 AM GMT
awful,horrible,disgusting shame on those people. but ask yourself why? its all about the punt, and gaining that slight advantage

if you trained greyhounds would you do it ? best ask old lance armstrong the same question.
Report Lloydy Trots Man February 16, 2015 11:04 AM GMT
If that didnt hit u then something wrong.
I still feel down from it.
I just purchased a Greyhound as well.
Sam Toocan
Report bigted. February 16, 2015 11:04 AM GMT
saw this from the producer of 4 corners...
Thanks for watching 4 Corners, there are people that can never be publicly thanked for obtaining some of that vision.They know who they are
Report Aussie Driver February 16, 2015 11:06 AM GMT
I just bought into one as well Lloydy, makes me think again
Report Lets Elope February 16, 2015 11:17 AM GMT
Always said the people involved were the lowest form of life on the planet, that's clearly been confirmed now.
Report tyre kicker February 16, 2015 11:17 AM GMT
Looks like their Aust Cup Promo should be changed to 'From Hero to Zero'
Report tyre kicker February 16, 2015 11:22 AM GMT
Vic Greyhounds awards night cancelled this Friday
Report Monday mike February 16, 2015 11:27 AM GMT
My oldest brother trained a greyhound his first and only 40 odd years ago, got it fit nearly ready for a trial. Anyway took it over the local park for a live kill with a rabbit.   His never been anygood on the punt and was worse with only attempt with the greyhound caper.  Released rabbit to give it a head start, then whoosh goes the greyhound, sadly after about 50 metre dog steps in a small hole and breaks its foot, the dog had to be put down.  Moral of this true story greyhounds dont always win.
Report kosbar February 16, 2015 12:05 PM GMT
showed up a terrible lack of stewarding over the years. It's likely that similar practices have occured at every trialling track at some time.
Time will tell what effect it has but the authorities need to proceed pretty quickly with charges, whilst lots of others breathe a big sigh of relief.
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE February 16, 2015 1:23 PM GMT
I don't understand why they need live baits to get dogs to chase. I've never owned a dog that wasn't mad keen to chase a tennis ball. A couple of Kelpies I've had would go so hard for that ball they'd steamroller you to get to it. Propelling a possum into the air with the aid of a tennis racquet and getting them to chase him couldn't make them go any faster.
Report nickw February 16, 2015 1:32 PM GMT
its a sad day for the dog game
shame on these people for bringing a great sport down
Report nickw February 16, 2015 1:33 PM GMT
Your right TKDM

They dont need these Live baits
Report trotman February 16, 2015 11:41 PM GMT
Many states in the USA have banned the dishlickers I think ?

TAB here has relied on them to fill up their Wall-To-Wall business model since privatisation.

State Govts are ALL addicted to the gambling tax revenues !!!!


Therein lies the source of the hypocrisy .....
Report ApacheCat February 17, 2015 3:47 AM GMT
A true representation of greyhound racing...It really is this disgustingly grubby.
Most don't go as far as possums with babies, but you will always find that special kind of person that will go to the next level regardless of what's involved and some actually are sick enough to get off on it and enjoy it.
Some dogs end up so far off their heads from live kills that they would chase through brick walls and therein lies the advantage of doing such, no drugs needed.
A constant flow of customers with "cash" money willing to pay for kills makes it a nice earner for bullring and trial track operators.
That's not to mention there are fair amount of small timers on government benefits training the animals, it's a bit hard to work and race dogs :)
Report Joel February 17, 2015 4:01 AM GMT
Back in my days, a can of Pal on the back of a remote control car worked the best.
Report eight ball February 17, 2015 4:32 AM GMT
State Govts are ALL addicted to the gambling tax revenues !!!!
Therein lies the source of the hypocrisy

The other Hypocrisy is
Eating bacon
Eating chicken
The best of all
Thoroughbreds,Standardbreds and Greyhounds that never get to a racetrack or are lifetime maidens due to inability,numbers would be>than 5000 combined per annum,most end up as Joels can of Pal.


Watching the footage of some well knowns i couldn't work out which were the PIGS.
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE February 17, 2015 8:30 AM GMT
Joel did you provide the dogs with a can opener?
Report Monday mike February 17, 2015 8:35 AM GMT
Four corners story is not going to change things, dog punters will continue to punt and the show will go on, right or wrong.  State governments are not going to kill off one of their gaming golden geese and Four corners will continue as four corners.  Four corners reporters are failed novelists sensationalising stories, thats their job and thats how they make profit....been going on for over 100 years.   Personally never did like dogs from a young bloke....12 race program Olympic park with 20 mins between races multiply that by 1 pot per race equals 12 pots, its a sure way to become a alkoholic.  Lucky .05 wasnt in then.
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE February 17, 2015 8:59 AM GMT
WTF is a pot?
Report therhino February 17, 2015 9:10 AM GMT
Fkn scum. I hope they get gang raped in the showers EVERY DAY by the Aryan brotherhood. Racing industry a fkn disgrace no matter dog or horse. Will never go to another race meet, watch on TV or place a bet. Kvnts the lot of em.
Report Lloydy Trots Man February 17, 2015 10:10 AM GMT
Im told 2 More tracks caught out and 70 more trainers to be shamed.
I honestly wish I didn't buy one last week.
Report logroller February 17, 2015 10:13 AM GMT
seek help rhino
Report logroller February 17, 2015 10:14 AM GMT
boy!!! has this story been waiting to burst for the last fkn 100 years
Report therhino February 17, 2015 10:33 AM GMT

Feb 17, 2015 -- 10:13AM, logroller wrote:


seek help rhino


Why? I can't stand cruelty to animals, and these industries are cruel in nature. I can live with those who do the right things, even though the right things are still cruel to the animal. Those whose heart is in the right place (however few) are ok with me. But these kvunts aren't that. Fk em, and everyone who looks like em. I have no fkn clue how you can do that to a defenceless animal. Burying a possum in the sand with the mother watching before she gets ripped to shreds is psychotic behaviour. Hope they suffer for it.

Report Aussie Driver February 17, 2015 10:35 AM GMT
Rhino is right
Report henryluca February 17, 2015 10:43 AM GMT
Could always send them to Bali with cocaine strapped to them
Report VeryLTU February 17, 2015 11:17 AM GMT
a pot is what you get when you drink a lot of them kami....... could be described as a little schooner or mini schooner or even a dwarf shcooner. A giant glass around 285 millilitres just a bit too big to smuggle out of pubs and clubs wiwthout assistance from heavy clothing..
Report logroller February 17, 2015 12:29 PM GMT
now that's a more balanced statement Rhino
Report leftrightout February 17, 2015 1:52 PM GMT
the sport is about 1 million to one to be shut down and drifting.  If you think that will happen then you're absolutely kidding yourself. 

That is not me defending it at all.  It's a total disgrace but industries like that just do not get shut down
Report Lordship February 17, 2015 2:05 PM GMT
Kamikazee,
A pot is when you don't think one can win, usually a favourite, a la "I'm potting the favourite"
Report Monday mike February 17, 2015 2:20 PM GMT
Just had a brainstorm, cane toad kills.  Infinite supply of them up North.
Report BJT February 17, 2015 3:54 PM GMT
While that is a little disturbing, something doesn't really add up.  For the most part, the animals are basically dead, and the result is the same.  Eg the possum? at the start that did 26 laps and 56 minutes or so on the lure.

So surely it has nothing to do with live bait at all, just the blood?

If you were to get a hold of some rabbits, after taking your ferrets and dogs out to catch them, and kill them, skin them, gut them, etc, is that a crime?  Back home, they have the world rabbit skinning championships.  (Don't think it is sanctioned, but a real event).  I mean if all of that is legal, and the only issue is live baiting, then why not simply break the rabbits neck before putting it on the lure?  Humanely killed the rabbit, legally, dog gets to chase warm blood, everybody happy?
Kangaroos shot and skinned for dog food.  Taking the dogs out hunting pigs.  Sith, sticking the pigs in a bath of boiling water to get the hair off.

Animals get killed all the time, and rabbits especially, are a pest and hunted just to kill them off.  And if they aren't, we release diseases to kill them slowly from tumors/fatigue/fever.  And if that doesn't work quickly enough, we send out another virus to get them.  Killed off 10 million in 8 weeks when it escaped out of the testing lab.


Point being, if it is the way the animals are dying, then surely just killing them just before putting them on the lure, and restricting the types of animal to maybe native pests, such as the rabbit, should be squeaky clean?


Or do kids not grow up in the country like that any more?
Report therhino February 17, 2015 7:52 PM GMT

Feb 17, 2015 -- 12:29PM, logroller wrote:


now that's a more balanced statement Rhino


balance just for the sake of balance, is bias.

Report therhino February 17, 2015 7:57 PM GMT
BJ, there is a massive difference between killing for food (or protecting a food source) and killing for the sake of your dog winning a race. Throw in the manner in which it occurred and yes, it is a big deal. There is no defending this.
Report trotlover February 17, 2015 11:35 PM GMT
Tab operating on over 100 dog races today, and no doubt tomorrow. I wouldn't expect an impact on turnover. A few scalps at the top, in two weeks it will be forgotten.

Dog administrators probably can't wait until the jumps season starts.
Report BJT February 18, 2015 3:25 AM GMT

Feb 17, 2015 -- 7:57PM, therhino wrote:


BJ, there is a massive difference between killing for food (or protecting a food source) and killing for the sake of your dog winning a race. Throw in the manner in which it occurred and yes, it is a big deal. There is no defending this.


No, my point is rabbits are killed because they are a pest.  Foxes too.  Kangaroos.  etc etc etc.

What is the difference between killing a rabbit to train greyhounds and simply killing it?  Of course I am referring to killing it before being mauled, not letting it get hurled around for an hour with 30 dogs on it.  If it is no longer live bait, then is that ok in regards to the law of racing?

Most of those guys for the record are old enough, if growing up in the country would have known how to skin a rabbit before they knew how to ride a bike.

Report henryluca February 18, 2015 3:33 AM GMT
Lets hope this Greyhound industry issue is not investigated by the Greyhound industry
Report logroller February 18, 2015 4:48 AM GMT
Rhino, not for the sake of balance, but your 1st statement made you look every bit as big a psycho as the people you condemn
Report therhino February 18, 2015 7:19 AM GMT
BJ a pest is something that attacks our food source or hinders us in some other way. Pest control is about maintaining our quality of life. There is a stark difference between pest control and this. Obviously killing the animals before putting them on a lure would be better, but how does that help the dog race? or better than a toy rabbit? And you still have the moral quagmire of killing innocent animals for the sake of the racing industry, which is not and won't ever be public friend number 1. I also think you are more than smart enough to grasp all of this mate...
Report therhino February 18, 2015 7:19 AM GMT

Feb 18, 2015 -- 4:48AM, logroller wrote:


Rhino, not for the sake of balance, but your 1st statement made you look every bit as big a psycho as the people you condemn


I don't think it did, but ok.

Report BJT February 18, 2015 9:55 AM GMT

Feb 18, 2015 -- 7:19AM, therhino wrote:


BJ a pest is something that attacks our food source or hinders us in some other way. Pest control is about maintaining our quality of life. There is a stark difference between pest control and this. Obviously killing the animals before putting them on a lure would be better, but how does that help the dog race? or better than a toy rabbit? And you still have the moral quagmire of killing innocent animals for the sake of the racing industry, which is not and won't ever be public friend number 1. I also think you are more than smart enough to grasp all of this mate...


I understand what a pest is.  But thanks. 

Take the rabbit.  You are happy it is killed, as it is a pest.  What is acceptable to do with them once they are killed?  When we released, accidentally mind you, the calicvirus, and killed 10 million rabbits in 8 weeks, did you go to the trouble of giving any of them a funeral?  Did you do anything but let them rot where they finally died from the poison we gave them?
What the hell do you care if a greyhound plays with a rabbit caucus?

I have said that the way they went about it is wrong.  But all the animals aren't "innocent" animals killed for the purpose of greyhound racing.  Rabbits, will be killed regardless as we see them as a pest and have been trying to kill as many as we possibly can for decades, and when one way loses it's effectiveness, we introduce another way.  People have no issue with them rotting away in a paddock, but are gobsmacked that a dog bred to hunt and kill them, may enjoy having a little nibble?

Report logroller February 18, 2015 10:13 AM GMT
I suppose what it really is "the trauma that the rabbits experience before death".  (but that's another area)

as much as I hate to admit, Blowhard makes a point, right up to his last sentence, these dogs are now bred to run around a track to gamble on, not to hunt and kill live animals.


would you believe that they used to sell live rabbits and ferrets out the front of Dog Meetings to trainers coming and going.

live kills do no doubt make a dog chase harder.
Report Lloydy Trots Man February 18, 2015 2:20 PM GMT
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/confidential/sportsbet-launches-controversial-fifty-shades-of-greyhound-parody-ad/story-fnn7ma1h-1227213720356

One of the Lucky ones
Report Thebas February 18, 2015 11:31 PM GMT
a very emotive story with no good outcome for the sport of course ...

i spent a year on the periphery of the doggie game back in the 80's ... loved the dogs ... had little time for many of the trainers

sadly ALL grehound trainers will now be tainted with the same brush ... and forced to forever justify and defend their innocence regardless of their own behaviour


now looking deeper into to it ... and with the horses also (and additives) it seems to boil down to one thing ... the athlete/animals psychology towards winning

most animals (and prob most humans too) are just social participants ... NOT elite athletes whose main desire in competition is to WIN ... to defeat its competition ... and there lies the dilemma for trainers/owners (and of course punters)

how do you adjust the psychology of an animal towards winning rather than just running around with the herd

many things have been tried naturally ... but if you are stuck with a 'herd participant' and NOT an elite 'i want to win' athlete then the psychology (or behaviour) of its trainer will come into play

the easy way out is what many choose ... for pride maybe and definately for fiscal outcome ... and yes of course greed & easy rewards (another story) will play their part


i make no comment on the 4 corners story ... it speaks for itself regardless of which side of a fence you want to sit on in regard to the footage ... (i didn't watch the tv showing .. i saw a little in the 80's enough to put me off watching such things again)


there was a section in the Phar lap story if i remember ... where they had to 'teach' the horse to 'want to win' ... and employed time & effort in urging the horse the extend when gait extension was required (whilst running next to another horse) ... a jockey&trainer can spend a lot of time 'teaching' a horse such things with patience & a desire to do so

... no one can teach a greyhound that desire imo ... it either has that desire to beat the dog next to it ... or it doesn't

... if not then other methods such as shown the 4Corners show will be sought by some trainers ... and here we are again in the year 2015 looking at someone/thing's misery for someone elses gain

the industry will look hard at itself ... you can bet this time ... but for how long afterwards is up to each individual
Report pokeron February 19, 2015 4:56 AM GMT
its all grey imo when it comes to animals and their participation in human activities.

when i look at a horse, i see a beautiful animal that man was supposed to ride (the dip in the back and just general scale. it's built for us to ride).

but it is not a beautiful animal that man was supposed to abuse. is racing abuse? grey. today black chevalier didnt want ollie on board and shook him off and went for a run. then won anyway looking pretty happy. lol. is that abuse? the horse didn't want to get in the gate at first. is that abuse? or is it just a parent telling his kid to get back onto the footy field after taking a knock. which wouldn't be deemed abuse.

the grey area comes where some horses and animals genuinely love what they do in conjunction with humans. those who own pets know when a pet is a willing or unwilling participant.

i see guide dogs and beagles and customs dogs who genuinely enjoy what they do.

the problem is too many trainers are using such barbaric techniques to make a dog more willing. i guess its cheaper to try and make an unwilling greyhound willing than it costs to get a new dog to see if it is winning inclined?

but hearing that pharlap story made me think of the movie seabiscuit where the jockey gets told to let the horse eyeball the other horse just before the sprint. the trainer says something like, 'once you do that, the horse will not let the other one past.'

i guess that's an extension of the gait extension that thebas talks about. thats just good training. sadly, with dogs, the mentality for some trainers is 'get them to smell blood and their genetic makeup will take care of the rest'.
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