A lot of racing hate at the moment

The whip being outlawed would appease a lot of activists. Can't imagine the racing fraternity wanting that outcome though. I would hazard a guess that nothing happens whatsoever. They just have to ride the storm out. Come Thursday, it's all about dresses, suits and cocktails again.

You get my point though? 6 or 7 barrier attendants all but Carry the horse into the barrier, Simon marshal harping on " what a great job theses boys so" then the proof think drops dead 5 minutes later

Interesting tweet from about an hour and a half before the race


TheProfits.com.au @TheProfitsComAu  ·  11h 11 hours ago

Admire Rakti kicked the back boards about 25 times the last 5 minutes and jumped front feet up 4 times #MelbourneCup

Yeah I get it. I agree, ban the whip. Just don't think anything would happen without a severe media push, it definitely won't come from the TV networks, they were more concerned with drunks falling over and who wore the best fascinator. talkback radio tomorrow will be interesting but unless a media heavyweight runs with it, as of Thursday, it's back to drunks and fascinators IMO.

freakish events today, it makes it worse they happened one after the other in our biggest race

it looks bad but when you put it into perspective how many Melbourne Cups have there been where no horses died..

Peter Donegan will be feeling like a sack of **** tonight, his words and I quote "My Ambivalent set a suicidal pace".. suicidal? surely he could of picked a better word

whip is needed for safety imo

apparently Varema died last year as well, not having a good run

Araldo was freakish. Not so sure about Admire. I like how they were very quick to report that what happened to AR happens to only 0.07% of racehorses, while also reporting the autopsy will be finished in the next 24-48 hours. Sudden Death syndrome I read, how can they release such info while reporting the autopsy is being carried out?

Sunrise not exactly being shy about it, very surprising given they are the broadcast station.

probably some debates worth having - will be some stupid things said though, one guy has come out and said it was because of the whip

definitely need some changes about flags being waved in the horses faces - Araldo's death was definitely avoidable imo

That was about tipping point for Melbourne Cup day for me.

Feral bogans by the thousands, actually make that by 10"s of thousands
D grade celebrities being fawned over.
Once a year marquee and members patrons were it's about being seen and the scene
Channel 7 coverage back to what ever coffee marquee and how lovely your shoes are 5 minutes
After A.R's tragic death.

Most above united in the lack of interest in what is happening on the track.
I will never go again.

I love horse racing but I find cup day macabre ... 
Let's be honest a 2 mile race with that prize money has these horses right on the limit of
their capabilities.
The fact  that the horses and jocks go out their with probably a greater chance of serious
Injury or death than other sport is pretty amazing.
To do it in front of the backdrop of what cup day has become.....  I don't want to be there
Or be part of it anymore.

What makes me really sick apart from the obvious deaths of the two horses is having that creepy old man Geoffrey Edelsten try and hijack the day with his ultra low class attention seeking behaviour, a 71 year "old" man with a 20 something year old trollop............VOMIT.

The Cup has lost it's soul, no doubt about that. TAB turnover (the measure of interest of the general public) is down again.
The reaction to the death of Admire Rakti is so over the top it's ridiculous.
The industry needs to keep quiet, move on , and wait for the next focus of media outrage to take the spotlight away.

On the upside....the mysteriously missing from ALL on course outlets over the carnival ....YELLOW Gatorade....

( ALL DODGY OTHERS AVAILABLE) .......emerged triumphantly back in stock.

I've taken a leaf from that health guru on Horseplayers and have been staring at the fridges to make a connection and

Create positive outcome vibes.

I don't think the public reaction is over the top whoopi, people don't like seeing what they saw. The difference these days is social media, so those reactions are now public and you hear about them where as in days gone by that would not have happened. Whole new world, and racing folk should be shaken a little. The public sentiment is without doubt highly negative.

what a load of rubbish as per usual you have a small vocal minority carrying on like pork chops because that is the only way their pathetic worthless lives have any semblance of meaning

Very mature and well thought out opinion you have Lets, as always.

lets its pretty clear you have no access to social media or interest for that matter. Rhino is right, the reactions from non racing people has been very negative. Its actually quite damaging to the industry. IA clear example was when the horse was hard to load and 6 or 7 blokes had to all but carry the thing into the stall. To a once a year onlooker this looks cruel and insinuates that the horse does not want to race, also the video taken of Admire Ratkis last moments when the strappers where trying to get him up was misinterpreted as cruelty to a sick horse!

this may sound disturbing but I bet the animal rights activists were sweating on a horse or 2 passing away so they could advertise how harmful they think the sport is

if no horses pass away and the tens of thousands who flock to Flemington have a great day out with a great race and all the festivities that go with the day, they haven't got a leg to stand on

iphones have alot to answer
everbody wants to take a vid and pic...

does an iphone ever take a picture of a healthy happy horse that enjoyed the last race it was in ... with a caring strapper fawning over it ... and gushing owners shaking a trainers hand .. regardless of whether the horse won or not ?

selective mug shots post Cup imo ... very sad stuff what happened absolutely tragic ...

but the so called do-gooders (who actually do no-one no good) ever look at themselves in a mirror ffs

get down to Flinders Street or Fortitude Valley late one night and look after a homeless misadventured person who hasn't been well treated & well fed & well housed their entire life

"I bet the animal rights activists were sweating on a horse or 2 passing away"

Pretty much confirms what I already suspected,................. you are a dead set idiot.

the stated aim and correct attitude of PETA and any animal rights group .. is to "care enough about animals to want to help them".

pretty sensible imo ... but sometimes in the emotion of 'the moment' discounts the fact that those activiely 'working' with animals under their care ... and i include the horse-racing fraternity as a group ... themsleves also wish to 'help' the horse.

calling for a blanket ban or dismantling thoroughbred horse-racing forever seems rather radical and has no real understanding of the future for such horses that would be disenfranchised should racing dissapear and whether that indeed would constitute 'help'

the horse as a worktool dissapeared with the advent of the internal combustion engine

and i imagine that back in those days many 'work horses' would have been in need of 'help'

but the iphone rules and the iphone sees all

well ALL that its owner wants to portray imo

My Ambivalent set a suicidal pace".. suicidal


who knows, the pace she was setting you could be forgiven if you thought the raiders brought along their very own pacemaker unknown to the locals

thebas - animal welfare people are a passionate bunch. To say that don't do nay good and should go help the homeless is off the mark. The homeless have champions, as do drug addicts, as do the jailbirds. People choose their cause and they chose theirs. The ban horse racing argument is not a productive one, as it isn't a realistic goal. Negotiating and lobbying the industry to clean up and then continue should be the aim. The whip and the number of horses that end up dog food for being slow are appalling. I read an article that also included racing 2 year old horses as their bodies can't handle the stress as an area of debate, but I'm not really qualified to dissect that.

At the very least, the presence of these groups provides some accountability which is a good thing. It is needed, and the law has never and still doesn't do enough for the protection of animals. If you took a poll of regular joes, how high would the number be of people that want cruelty to animal laws made much harsher? People in the racing industry may well love horses, doesn't mean racing is good for horses. The groups may be full of nutters, but the nutters serve a purpose.

fair enough Rhino .. but suggesting that the industry itself and its participants don't care as much about the horses as people on the fringe with a general caring for animals does a disservice and injustice imo to the racing participants

there has to be a balance and over emotionalism (certainly in regard to closing down racing altogether) helps no-one either

i do support any restriction of racing of 2yo's ... but by offering "lotto-like" carrots will only accelereate the want to have babies racing well before their bones etc have formed properly (which i believe is from mid 3yo onwards and certainly from 4yo plus)

passion is fine ... asserting that the industry & participants have no regard for the welfare of the animals they work with and love is enough for me to put the 'nutters' (your words ) in a category not to be listened to ...

and for them or you to say 'doesn't mean racing is good for horses' has little strength ...

but you write from the heart imo so good fortunes to you and i can tell you are genuine ... good fortunes to you

Seems a lot of misinformation around with the general public. Araldo had to be put down with that injury whether or not he was a racehorse. Whilst Araldo's injury was caused him being spooked by the crowd it really nothing to do with the race and injuries happen to non-racehorses getting spooked kicking oout or bolting everyday in the world. Horses can get spooked by a wind gust or almost anything moving near them.

The Japanese horse is a much greater concern!

Rhino, I agree with much of what you say.
My problem is that on the scale of cruelty (and I'm not agreeing that the industry is cruel to horses) it's so far below other identifiable cruelty that they largely ignore, because there's no public appeal to it.
For instance, any puppy that you buy from a pet store  unless otherwise stated and displayed by the pet shop, is a product of a puppy mill. A place where breeding dogs spend their lives in cages, crammed together, wallowing in their own excrement. That is their WHOLE LIFE until they can breed no more and are discarded like trash.
We adopted a little bloke who spent 8 years living like that, before he was rescued. He had never seen grass. He didn't know how to walk up stairs. He cowered under tables.
He now is the best companion you could ever wish for. You can feel his gratitude for the life he now lives.
When have you seen outrage in the media of the current level about this cruelty. You haven't...it's not sexy like thoroughbreds.
So when I see the media make an issue of REAL CRUELTY I'll start to pay attention.
Until then the sanctimonious hypocrisy makes me ill!

Cheers thebas for the kind words. Agree with all your points. Where a lot of these group go wrong is communicating, it's an important skill, if you come across as a zealot you lose credibility and no matter how good the point you make is, it becomes useless as you can't convince people of anything without being credible - Lets would be a perfect example, I wouldn't listen to anything he says because of how he says it. Feel the same with the racing people, getting on the front foot straight away on Tuesday was the wrong way to handle it, all they had to do was say what a tragedy it was and how we, like everyone else are completely devastated. Going on the attack just incites more anger which shapes more hardline opinion. The snowball effect here is huge.

I only call them nutters because their passionate people but have no logical goal. A total ban on horse racing in this country is an utterly ludicrous objective. Completely unattainable.

Yo whoopi. You are right in what you say, but the wrong attitude in my opinion. If we all thought that way there would never be progress. Hypocrisy is everywhere and we're all guilty of it. Every single meat eater is an active supporter of animal cruelty. If you eat meat you are a paid up member. There can be no denying it, not just the slaughter but everything that happens to the animal up until the slaughter is deplorable. Are we going to stop eating meat? Don't think so. You really don't want to know about Eastern medicine either. And for the love of god if you have a fur product from China...

But using the presence of one form of cruelty and saying well yeah, we may have cruelty but we're not as bad as those guys so we will keep being cruel is no excuse. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Not much the meat industry can do, the demand is relentless. But racing and the puppy mills can and should do better. Racing just gets the extra attention because it's in the limelight which is usually a positive for the industry, can't have it both ways in regards to the attention.

My point is the scale of the reaction. Elephant size cruelty receives pimple size reactions and pimple size cruelty receives Elephant size reaction.......

It was the Melbourne Cup. It's a pretty big thing, not sure what you were expecting. Horses die all year round at racetracks and don't rate a mention on the nightly news. Can't really say racing is picked on, but we get a public holiday for this race, news coverage of what happened will be big.

These people are warped. Ive seen them cheer when an accident has occurred at a jumps meeting and jump the fence and carry on like the idiots that they are. There are many other issues in the animal world that need attention. Ward and Elio are just on a self publicity course. These people should be warned off by Racing Victoria

Rhino ... SBS put this one up tonight .. i haven't seen the full program so cannot comment

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/348450371688/Michael-Mosley-The-Truth-About-Meat

meat & methane

will the UN recommend taxing/trading it to solve the problem ... will they set up trading companies so that people who consume more meat than their arbitrary allottment can buy offset credits from a glabal banker if they want to eat more meat than their allottment

but then ... in the end won't the rich end up eating all the meat ... and the poor go without ?

this all to save the environment from the massive increase in methane now being emitted ... increased over the past 30-40 years  by 70%

and methane is 25 times more greenhouse than co2

will science ... or rorting bankers trading credits to the richest ... solve this particluar methane greenhouse problem ???

lets hope its science

Watched a bit. Interesting stuff, but science ain't saving us. Only thing that will save us is behavioural change, which is scary.

yeah i watched the lot last night Rhino ... all about different farming processes and cage style efficiency to reduce the greenhouse explosion in agriculture

when they talk about emerging countries like China & India now increasing their meat consumption past what a levelling europe & usa consume it means meat production must continue to increase to cover the extra demand and that eventually we will have to chop down more trees for more land to produce the "feed that the animals need" for us to cultivate and harvest them

and we will run out of land

interesting with cattle that they need to consume more protein to grow than we eventually get to harvest from them for the protein that we get from them ... WTF ????

either way .. i'm still in the camp that says the UN & such orgs will want to tax it (or trade credits on it like they want with co2) ... it's a money & wealth redistribution game .. nothing to do with the environment or the animals themselves

Got an email from the boss of Racing Victoria today - interesting numbers. Not a bad story to tell imo
   
On 31 October 2014, I wrote to the industry about horse welfare and our desire to demonstrate the love of the horse that is so prevalent throughout the Victorian thoroughbred racing industry.

This coincided with open letters in the Herald Sun and The Age from trainer Peter Moody and our Head of Veterinary Services, Dr Brian Stewart, about a trainer’s care and racetrack safety.

The sad news of the post-racing passing of both Admire Rakti and Araldo after the Melbourne Cup ensures that horse welfare will remain a topic of immense public interest.

The circumstances involving both deaths were unique and the thoughts of the industry have been with the connections of both horses who have been most distraught at their loss.

A post mortem showed that Admire Rakti suffered heart failure, the incidence of which is just 0.007% in our racing population. The circumstances that led to Araldo being ultimately euthanised can only be described as a freak accident.

Following on from the Araldo accident, interim changes to horse movements were implemented at Flemington for the Crown Oaks and Emirates Stakes Day meetings.

Chairman of Stewards Terry Bailey reported that these changes had a positive impact on the movement of horses, with a more detailed review to be now undertaken with the VRC ahead of future carnivals.

Both incidents prompted a lot of discussion among avid racegoers and once-a-year fans. Some of this was very fair and balanced, other commentary less so.

For the record, there have now been four deaths emanating from the Melbourne Cup over the past 30 years. Tragically three of these have happened in the past two years, in unique and varying circumstances.

As stated by Dr Stewart in his open letter, Victoria’s horse safety record over the last 10 years is equal to the best in world thoroughbred racing and we are committed to maintaining world’s best practice.

Like many sports thoroughbred racing is not without risk. The sheer size and power of racehorses means that on rare occasions they suffer injuries that cannot be repaired.

Through welfare initiatives, extensive research and investment in infrastructure, we are continually striving to provide the safest racing environment.

The total number of flat starts in Victorian racing has averaged 43,575 per year across the past decade. During that same period, the horse safety record has averaged 99.95% with fatal racing accidents occurring in just 0.05% of starts.

For clarity, there have been 12,260 starts in Victoria so far this season with six racing fatalities recorded, including those emanating from the Melbourne Cup.

As an industry we’ve not always been good at dealing with or discussing welfare issues. This is something we must collectively strive to improve, and we should be comfortable with challenging ourselves to make racing as safe as possible for all involved.

A post mortem showed that Admire Rakti suffered heart failure, the incidence of which is just 0.007% in our racing population

Hard to trust this info when they were reporting this exact same fact and stat BEFORE the autopsy was completed. They had decided the cause of death was a heart attack before the heart was looked at because it was the best cause of death from a PR standpoint.

A post mortem showed that Admire Rakti suffered heart failure,



Every biological death is caused by "heart failure"...dahhh!!

The question is what caused the heart failure  (aortic value problem, blocked artery...etc) and that answer is in the sealed envelope never to be opened...

Agree henry. Whole thing stinks. I also get sick of hearing about the 'love of the horse' the industry has. Publish the figures in regards to the perfectly healthy, but slow horses that get sent to the knackery for not being cost effective then comment on your love for the horse.

gotta agree you guys

but then again at what point in history did the general populace get told the whole truth about anything

ffs if you dig deep enough you'll find that in the long run 'leaded' petrol would have actually been SAFER for us than the carcinogenic junk they put in with the 'unleaded' stuff ... to 'protect' our seafety lol 

the fact will always be ... we the poeple are generally unworthy of the truth (spesh when it hurts someones bottom line)

What is the point you are trying to make TB?

my point Rhino from the first sentence down was that i wouldn't expect too much honesty from anyone in charge of anything 

... in relation to that i was not surprised when the real facts of what precipitated the poor horses heart failure were not ever disclosed

my "gotta agree with you guys" statement was to mean that ... i agree with you guys and your points

who had admiral ratki racing on the speed in the cup incidentally?

who had admiral ratki racing on the speed in the cup incidentally?

Precisely..no one

IMO the cocktail drink in the horse wrongly had  anaerobic juice in it ..not the aerobic...   hence why it went fast early...and under its big weight over 3200 m why it had heart failure.....its body metabolism processes were all topsey turvey imo

yeah good call LIH

(observationally only) horses (not jocks lol) do seem to want to over-race or race more forward (lead) ... where they don't normally do that ... when they are at the end of a campaign ie tired/jaded and wanting to get the race over with as quickly as possible

not sure that was the case with Admiral tho as jock said he was happy to be where he was and was a matter of 'how far' in his eyes ... so something went tragically wrong at about the 800m but didn't fully manifest itself to the jock till the 300m when he was eased out of the race

i understand what the guys were saying though and we've had nil real disclosure here at all ... just a blanket meaningless statement ...

yeah , I havnt been able to find much about this, I guess his death over shadowed it, but it does smell a little to me

I love horses, they are majestic and beautiful animals but if owners were expected to look after every one that was born until they either managed to sell it or it died of natural causes the whole sport would fall over. 

I'd rather pay to feed one that has a chance of paying it's way than one that will cost me until the day it dies

I'm not saying I want to see horses turned into dog food, in an ideal world they would all get resettled after they were done with racing - we don't live in an ideal world though

Seeing as racing is entertainment and not essential, that's not really good enough womble. And you can't say you love horses while killing thousands of em because of the bottom line. This is not love mate. Far from it.

Anyone luv steak....fish ...lamb...unfortunately or fortunately  humans rule   

correct henry.... didn't god put 'em here for us to eat ??? I've never tasted horse, that i know of, but plenty of people around the world love it ... and god knows theres a couple of mongrels i wouldn't mind putting a fork into for my first taste. look upon it as a bonus, they're good entertainment (?) and when the show is over we can eat them just like the billions of our ancestors have done for  a couple of hundred thousand years. I'd like to choose pheidon if that would be possible

I'd vote for you VeryLTU.

I'd give it a crack Very - should be pretty lean, probably quite healthy

Horses are bred for purpose just like most other animals, if that purpose no longer existed they wouldn't be bred. 

They have very good lives on the way through, well most do, throw the book at those that abuse them I say - animals deserve to be treated with respect.  Once their time is up and they no longer meet the purpose they are bred for, or a decent alternative, a short quick ending is ok by me.

Like i said though, ideal world they all get resettled

a lot of owners are probably thousands of miles away from their horses (thanks mainly to syndication), they probably never see them race in them race in the flesh, never see them do track work, never pat them or brush them. This long distance love affair grows pretty cold when ol' Frosty cant earn a cheque. Trainer says get rid of him, hes costing us money, so of course its bye bye lets get another one

If horse tastes anything like kangaroo you can count me in

A horse with sauce could make a fine main course.

Maybe we could eat Olympic athletes when they've passed their use-by date. I reckon Usain Bolt would be an excellent gourmet dish for the connaisseur of fine cuisine. Imagine the boost it would give to the Jamaican economy to export their finest sprinters when their racing days are over.

there are plenty of female athletes i'd love to eat Phil

Pitsburg:

Its some concern you thought of  Usain Bolt ..to feast on ....

You forgot to say "... not that there's anything wrong with that"

PPhil

DAMM !!..you are funnier than me