www.trotips.com

Think trottips is free your Lordship.

Yeah but you obviously get what you pay for. They don't even know what's running. What's that all about?

maybe it was scratched -
give it a chance, its free and he is around the money most times

It wasn't scratched I think it ran the next day didn't it? Looks like they put the tips for the wrong day up?

the tip off pogga and bonnington last night was lucrative to watch..pogga won clearly imo

he got the first winner at the creek

I've mentioned before what a farce this it having two sets of tips from the same "tipster", whatever you do IGNORE HIS SPEED MAPS!!!, they will send you broke as will following any tipster
except me of course but I'm the exception cos I'm a GENIUS

this is from www.harness.org......same race different selections, has the winner 3rd pick

Form Analysis by Michael Polster

Race 1:

ARK ELAINE (1) hasn’t been too dangerous of late from poor draws, but tonight she comes up with the ace alley and whether she holds top or trails a suitable runner she will get every hope to showcase her wares.  JILLIBY MAC (11) will need a bit to go his way from the extreme gate, but he won well at Redcliffe last time and rates highly.  BLYTHEBURN (10) and ELSULITE (4) wrap up the winning chances.  TEENTEEITSDYNAMITE (2), NOONDAH PRINCE (9), FREMARKSUEL (8), VICAR SIVAD (5) and KAMWOOD RAIDER (6) can place.

SELECTIONS: ARK ELAINE (1), JILLIBY MAC (11), BLYTHEBURN (10), ELSULITE (4)

SUGGESTED BET: ARK ELAINE (1) each way, more place than win

but you would have got the first 4 if you boxed his 9 picks in an 11 horse race.......lol

Whatever happened to HRV guru Andrew Evans ?? We need more like him

booooooooooooooooooooom Polster
SELECTIONS: COURAGEOUS KIWI (6), DREAM CHAPEL (4), STANDOUT STATS (1), DONEGAL UNDER FIRE (5)
boxed for 50 per cent

TRIFECTA    4-5-1    317.40



shoulda had first 4 FIRST 4    4-5-1-6    1149.80

Ted, a broken watch is right twice a day

id be happy to back anything you trot boys tip..
thing is..you never do..

whilst i won't argue with VK being a genius I do think he is being harsh on M Poulster - from what I have seen he goes pretty good

my view anyway

tongue in cheek craig, I'm the Village Idiot as I've been told here 100's of times
any way you missed my point, the "tips" he does on harness.org can differ from the ones he does for trottips
that's two bites of the cherry, admittedly it's a hiding to nothing tipping in every race, broken clocks and all that
facts are facts, if you follow him every race you will lose
I stand by what I say about the speedmaps....trust me I check them for EVERY RACE, they suck, again facts are facts

sorry BigT, I've retired from tipping here as the forum is a shadow of it's former self and full of serial posting, know all t0ssers
I just stick to what I'm good at................................................................bagging the aforementioned

Just back every favourite in Vic trots. If they don't win the judge still declares them first or the stewards award them the race by way of protests. They just don't lose

Know all T0ssers ffs get out from in front of the mirror

Crow

Can't challenge a know-alls cred if he doesn't post. Silence provides them with an impeccable record and reputation

Although, "as the forum is a shadow of it's former self", we fully understand.

bigted.'s blog   

id be happy to back anything you trot boys tip..
thing is..you never do..

well said BT

just wait for tyre kicker and gardenstars tips .. just dont hold your breathe


there funny .. part time driver hands up to fav its a boatie
they kick up on the fav  and they are ruining the game

you gotta laugh

some meetings are pretty ordinary to watch, but some are really competitive - like mildura the other day. maybe its a tighter track but at least they all looked like they wanted to win imo anyway

i dont follow them much LIH
but have always found the tighter tracks like Gp are the best racing

I have nothing against Mr Polster personally, he’s probably a good guy and he’s working his arse off doing form for six meetings a week.   Good on him for doing a job I wouldn’t want because it’s too much work week in week out.   The whole point of Trottips is the TAB spruiking their pari-mutuel product to punters when they offer the biggest take out and the worst value.  Obviously the more people that take these “tips” the less the return for them but more of a return for those who don’t so it’s good news for the nonbelievers if pools are being inflated by Lemming  money .  My main beef is with harness.org using Mr Polster  for their form analysis when previously both Craig Rail and Chris Barsby did a good job and they offered a second opinion.  Not saying I followed them but at least it was food for thought and they could point out something that may have been missed.

As for the speed maps, I think it’s a waste of time trying to plot where every runner will end up.  I’m sure there are plenty of successful punters who’ve never done a speedmap on paper in their lives.  My assessment of them was once again proven right as in the first seven races not one has been right regarding the leader and some have been absolute Barry’s.

9/9 speed maps fail to find the leader, rc6 one that led all the way mapped to drop out last
last race mapped leader drops out last but at least it was picked to win which it did

2 from 9 winners on top, $2.10 and $2.30, The Trotman service that Betfair used to have ran rings around Trottips
picked 7 from 9 or something like that one night at the Creek, was actually worth following but they mothballed it
shame Betfair shame

Agree

The Qld and NZ tips that the Trotman service offered left a bit to be desired.

Working out the leader is vital when doing trot form. I used to find this relatively straight forward back in the supposed bad old days but in recent years I found it to be a lottery. One of the main reasons I no longer bet on them.

Nickw what have you ever provided on here other than snide remarks. Just another useless lurker

Another tipping site that will give you a nose bleed.!

http://trotsgoodform.blogspot.com.au/

Village ..AD Gstar and others ...

I would be interested in your opinions  to the comments made on the Poor Market Depth thread

piss poor last night

interesting comment you make AussieDickhead, a spiteful attempt to make a liar out of me, fishing?......anyway I'll bite

I actually saved the Trotman tips for Albion Park for 4th and 18th May last year.....just checked them and found 16 out of 19 races spot on
but hey, why let facts get in the way of ridiculous childish comments, that's what this forums all about

How many were double figure odds? You seem want to pot people who tip one runner for one winner at double figure odds, and then claim others are childish The pot and the kettle?

Mind you I would be angry as well if I knocked back free money like you did, you might want to remember the people who have tried to help you. But you don't have the brains for that. Tipping you have never tried to help anyone out like that. Anyway, one of us continues to grow, the other just languishes because he is too arrogant to respect someone that tried to help them.

Keep on guessing loser

Can't we just stick to what this forum is really for.. Bagging trainers and drivers

VK - I'd be surprised if Trotman isn't Mr Iform now. The phrases in the comments are v similar. Makes sense if Harness racing NSW employed him given NSW was his bread and butter: "knows every runner".

went better today

think M.Polster is a pretty nice guy but his job is thankless and speed maps to me have always been a waste of time.

Are there many learned trot punters that place great emphasis on speed maps/leader or is it considered too random to worry about?

Perhaps random is the wrong word, maybe its either obvious to all or not nearly obvious enough in relation to who leads.

Josh-T

I have to admit many thought that when iForm was launched - I got congrats from many old mates - but it sadly was not me who they approached to start that service.

I'd have to say that his stuff has improved nicely over the time he has done this tricky task - and now provides a very solid product - over far more meetings than I could have managed back in the day.

Cheers

BHLL

I would have to say, knowing a horse's gate speed and where it should be in the run, is just about the most important factor in doing trot form.

Personally, I give every horse a gate speed rating.

I'm really surprised to hear some learned judges here state that speed maps are not important. I believe that more than any other code, mapping the race correctly is clearly the most important aspect of devising an assessment. More so now with sprint lanes everywhere. I place a huge amount of emphasis on it

You don't need to be quick out of the gates to lead.  You just need the one that is to be on your horse and hand up the lead to him by pulling yourself and the field back so he can get it easy.

Has nothing to do with speed maps, and everything to to do with which one they have their money on.

AD

just think there is a lot of hard work undone when an imbecile on a $50 chance decides to keep lead or a favoured runner gallops out then you have team driving. I may try and and find a leader or see if there is any d/seat horse in race but it ends at that-respect your opinion though and if it works for you well done.

littlegypt

Can I assume from your comments, that you don't frame your own market ?

BJT isnt a speed map a guide to do with how the they settle in run
would think that has a lot to do with gate speed and draws

AD i dont think anybody was saying they dont think they are important just that they have become a little harder to predict

Certain drivers have the ability to get horses off the car quicker than some others. Then there are those drivers who are just prone to keep attacking. One of Castiron's favorites in that respect was Stanley Banham.

Thanks, Lordship, that was a lifetime ago.

Castiron,,

It was a lifetime ago. Then came your perilous stage. Long before you bought new suits for the Adelaide Cup.

Littlegypt, I take the point that they can quickly go out the window if something 'abnormal' occurs, but race to race it governs results, especially those who take a lot of multiple bets which I do. If you could bet 400 metres after the start of every race you would be in Packer's league. That is really where the key part of the battle lies. And if you are producing a market, the probably of where a horse may end up is imperative

Have a crack at the IN PLAY Harness boys & girls --- the more players the better.

It doesn't have to be one way traffic either -- there could be plenty of punters who back a leader pre post, and are happy to take insurance at a shorter price.

You'll never know if you don't have a go :-)

castiron

I only bet what I perceive as value if a horse is overs i'll back it-I have an idea of lowest price I wish to take but to answer your question no I don't set a market pre-race

May 1, 2014 -- 7:00PM, nickw wrote:

BJT isnt a speed map a guide to do with how the they settle in runwould think that has a lot to do with gate speed and drawsAD i dont think anybody was saying they dont think they are important just that they have become a little harder to predict

Yes it is, but with the trots, for the most part being mickey mouse races, it has more to do with the market than anything else.  A typical speed map is about tactically where a horse will end up in an attempt to win a race.
In the trots however, all that goes out the window, and you are looking at where they are going to put themselves to lose it.

Take R8 Bathurst 12th March for example, which has been documented on here.

MAYIHAVEABISCUIT was second favourite, at 3.00.
KEEP ON MOVING was third pick at about 7.50.

By the time the race was about to start, the odds had swapped.

You don't have to be a genius to do the "speed map" for this race.  Keep On Moving was going to lead, whether it jumped the gates, galloped at the start, or got run over by the mobile.

MAYIHAVEABISCUIT driven out to hit the front, on a track with no sprint land I believe, pulls back and slows down the field so KEEP ON MOVING could run easily to the lead doing no work.
KEEP ON MOVING wins the race as MAYIHAVEABISCUIT "couldn't get out"....


So while yes, you are technically correct, you aren't doing a speed map on the horses, you are doing a speed map on the drivers.  And unless you know them and have the information that they have, the only way you can do that is by watching the market.

Now if you did the speed map for this, a 1730 metre sprint, you would have had MIHAB leading, with KOM either in the death, or in the one one, and you would have it for the trip, as if both of them were trying to win, that is where they would have ended up.
There is no speed map in the world that would see MIHAB from gate 5 stuck behind the leader a few hundred metres after the start, because if you have the speed to cross, as 3rd fav, from gate 5, in a 1730 metre race, when there is no sprint lane, you don't give up the lead for fcuking anything.


Your "speed map" for the trots, at least in most races which are obviously worth pennies, comes from working out which one the drivers have their money on.

From the Gaths and Mannings, to O'shea and Turnbulls, to the Barkers of old, the list goes on and on.

When the drivers are ballsy enough to tell you to your face "Don't waste your money betting today, it isn't your turn", and races are filled with drivers that are either related, have kids together, married, slept together, whatever, you know you are on a hiding to nothing relying on speed maps based on form.

See a horse drift from 1.20 to 1.80, you are looking for 2 things.  Either the driver is going to yank it back onto the fence back in the pack, or a 50/1 shot attacking it for a lap and them both dropping out to finish at the back.

ok.

obviously you have to know the horses with gate speed, those who attack, those who ping out and hand up etc, that's called doing your homework
but you're at the mercy of drivers who barely have a high school education so who knows what they will do half the time
but to actually sit down and take the time to try to map where every horse ends up, waste of time IMO
anyway what would I know? it's not like I've made a living from punting since way before Betfair kicked off, roflmao
we are truly blessed here to have such all knowing selfproclaimed geniuses such as BJT to guide the less fortunate

P.S. thank you BESOTTED..............BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

The worst thing is that most harness racing participants don't believe in speed maps because things change every now and again... The other 8/10 times the map is predictable. This is why so many don't like COT rules, because they think they are giving away the speed map to drivers who don't do form

May 3, 2014 -- 2:15AM, Village Kid wrote:

obviously you have to know the horses with gate speed, those who attack, those who ping out and hand up etc, that's called doing your homeworkbut you're at the mercy of drivers who barely have a high school education so who knows what they will do half the timebut to actually sit down and take the time to try to map where every horse ends up, waste of time IMOanyway what would I know? it's not like I've made a living from punting since way before Betfair kicked off, roflmao we are truly blessed here to have such all knowing selfproclaimed geniuses such as BJT to guide the less fortunate

Maybe if you returned your book to the Maroochydore Library, we could all have a chance.

Either way, you just backed up exactly what I said, so not sure why you are trying to bag me when you have the same opinion. 

And seriously, you keep going on about making money gambling before Betfair came along.  In my view, that simply makes you an old prick.  I was barely even legal to bet when Betfair came on the scene... 

Have a good night you lovely man...