Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
28 Aug 13 23:38
Date Joined: 15 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 12,882 | Blogger: wombleoz's blog
If poker goes, what's next???
Pause Switch to Standard View Abbott to ban online poker
Show More
Report Thebas August 28, 2013 11:56 PM BST
Coalition Prime Minister Candidate Tony Abbott today (10Aug13) announced he would ban all credit offered by [b]Australian online gambling companies[/b]. The ban would make it impossible for online poker rooms, sports betting sites, and Internet casinos to offer credit to customers.

The controversial practice has received much attention in recent months, as several high profile cases have revealed what many consider the dark side of online gambling. It’s been learned that several notable footballers received large amounts of credit then went on binge betting sprees.


banning credit offers (not credit card deposits or bank transfers) is different to banning on-line gambling ... should ANYbody really be betting on credit rather than deposit if doing it online ? 

(again credit betting at a racetrack is different as I don't think i'd be wanting to take thousands in notes to the track anymore if i went and would ceratinly apporach a bookie to get a 'line of credit' for the meeting)
Report shiraz August 28, 2013 11:58 PM BST
Report Aussie Driver August 29, 2013 12:06 AM BST
Very good post Thebas. I honestly question those on here that don't agree. If you need credit anywhere but on course you simply don't have the coin to play
Report Castiron August 29, 2013 12:42 AM BST
Anything that makes it tougher for those grubby corporates, would be a positive in my view.
Report spyvspy27 August 29, 2013 1:00 AM BST
The Case of Henry from Wantirna
In another case, a mentally ill Wantirna man who had no job was given $80,000 in credit by Sportsbet. The man gambled away the entire line of credit in one weekend of online gaming. When he couldn’t pay back the eighty thousand dollars, Sportsbet took him to court and forced him into bankruptcy. Only the intervention of Victoria Liberal MP Alan Tudge kept the man from losing his home.

There is more to that story than meets the eye. But still totally in agreeance with Thebas re credit
Report PittsburghPhil August 29, 2013 4:26 AM BST
Have to agree with Abbott and his fans on here.

Credit betting on-line should be an absolute no-no.

As for on-course bookies, there should be a system in place where a punter who doesn't want to carry bundles of cash should be able to deposit money into an account, either with individual bookies or with the Bookies association and draw on it as required. Nod betting should never be allowed because it can be a disaster for the punter who gets out of his depth, and for the bookie if the punter can't cough up at settling.

Well done, Abbott ... but I still hate your guts.
Report logroller August 29, 2013 7:08 AM BST
Aussie Driver
Date Joined: 08 Nov 04 Add contact | Send message When: 29 Aug 13 00:06 Joined: Date Joined: 08 Nov 04 | Topic/replies: 12,705 | Blogger: Aussie Driver's blog
Very good post Thebas. I honestly question those on here that don't agree. If you need credit anywhere but on course you simply don't have the coin to play

I have 6 accounts all over australia, so u want me (hypothetically)if my betting increments were about 2-3 thousand a race or footy match to have 30-50k sitting in bookies accounts all over the country.

u all say how hard done by we are not having "in play betting over the net" but u agree to give up another right of choice. next you will want to ban CREDIT CARDS, and why not? the very nature of them is all CREDIT.

I do agree with you Castiron about sticking it to the corp's but at the expense of me being told that i cant negotiated my own affairs with whom ever i thanks

each client should be assessed individually, no sweeping laws to govern all, to maybe help a very few %.
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 8:38 AM BST
I have 6 accounts all over australia, so u want me (hypothetically)if my betting increments were about 2-3 thousand a race or footy match to have 30-50k sitting in bookies accounts all over the country.

... without going into specifics of your accounts Loggy ... could i just ask what due diligence did (all or some of) the 6 businesses do with you to get an accurate indication of your capacity to service the leverage (credit) they provided ... ie did they need to know if you had a job or collateral cash or otherwise

i have no agenda with that question ... but would be interested to know if they needed a confirmation of a customers ability to 'pay' ... and did they need to know how many other businesses you have gambling credit with (or does an 'industry database' let them ALL know who has what credit and with whom)
Report nickw August 29, 2013 8:48 AM BST
Should be treated just like any other line of credit
Apply like you would a credit card/ loan
all betting accounts(with limits) should be just another liability

each person treated case by case
Report THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON August 29, 2013 8:53 AM BST
Should ban Poker Machines .  There's a real step in the right direction. Mischief
Report therhino August 29, 2013 9:05 AM BST
I used to work in pokie venues. The amount of people who had self excluded was really nothing exceptional in the grand scheme of things, and the people I saw night after night whilst working a graveyard were sad to say the least, but the reality of problem gambling is nowhere near what they make it out to be and those people were few and far between.

Far bigger issues going on in Australia for people to fix than problem gambling. The problem with the credit betting is not necessarily that it exists, but the checks and balances in place to ensure the protection of both parties - punter and bookie. Get that process right and it's a storm in a teacup issue.
Report Aussie Driver August 29, 2013 9:07 AM BST
Nick ........ Bookmakers are NOT banks, they have no place granting credit. If you want credit go to a bank. If a bank won't provide you credit, after performing the relevant diligence, a bookmaker has no place overriding that.

Logroller .......... You must be joking right?
What gives you the right to gamble with someone else's money. Your desire to gamble 2k per race does not mean you can demand credit to do so. People have the right to gamble what is theirs should they choose to. If you don't have the money to gamble at that level, you don't have the money to gamble at that level. It is rather concerning that you think that it is reasonable to do so.

I repeat, bookmakers are not banks, and they should not be granting credit. I say again if you need it you have gambling issues
Report therhino August 29, 2013 9:12 AM BST
I hear what you're saying AD, but Harvey Norman and JB Hi Fi aren't banks either, and sell goods on credit every single day. The difference is the process is solid. Get the process right and it's not an issue worth being concerned about.
Report Aussie Driver August 29, 2013 9:20 AM BST
And maybe they shouldn't either rhino, at the end of the day they don't perform adequate diligence which Thebas speaks of.

Beyond that, gambling is a unique issue and we all know it, although some here wont want to admit it, for obvious reasons. Reality is that if you want credit to gamble, you are gambling in a manner you can't afford. No one who bets within their capabilities needs it. No one will convince me otherwise.

A lot of people, including many on here no doubt, have been seduced into gambling their way into trouble by credit offers. Well done to anyone who opposes it
Report nickw August 29, 2013 9:23 AM BST
Ad  are you serious?
you put people in categorys so quick

On line bookmakers are a business they have the right to offer credit if they wish
Just like all businesses

Its simple like therhino said get the process right and it will work fine for both sides
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 9:38 AM BST
i agree AD ... gambling credit is unique to the 'credit industry' ... and the problem lies with the possibility of 'chasing losses' with digital money that will have a due date of repayment if the losses are not recouped

the harvey norman/j b hi fi analogy prob is not quite the same Rhino imo ... as the purchase of product via credit involves the 'issuing' of some firmware for a better word

the example would be i guess that you but a big tv on credit from harvey's

then you lose the tv on your way home so you go back and buy another tv ... each time on credit

you now have a credit bill to normans for the 5 tv's ... but you have no tv because you again lost the final one you purchased ... and if the credit extended you will again go back to HN for another purchase in the hope of not keeping the one final tv but also finding the other 5 as well ... to assist in the repayment of the debt

the 'chasing losses' scenario ... is the part of 'credit betting' i imagine that a change of govt policy attempts to address

i can still understand both sides of the argument ... who wants a govt 'running your pecadillos' when they you have them under control

i do not bet with credit but only with deposited funds so i cannot argue the other side of this dilemma from any personal experience
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 9:39 AM BST
^ so you go back and buy another tv 4 more times after losing them all post purchase Blush
Report therhino August 29, 2013 9:53 AM BST
For the record, I don't and have never used credit to gamble. Have never even contemplated such a thing. I don't even have an account with a corp bookie, I have one account which is Betfair, so it's not an issue that effects me. I just think, the issue here is the system of credit, it's a legal concept which is in practise all over the world. We are governing what products can be bought and sold on credit. I don't think the product is relevant. If the customer has means to pay, and the product is legal, end of in my opinion.

I see where AD is coming from and yes gambling is a unique product, and lending 80K to an unemployed guy having a mental episode is utterly ridiculous - but if both parties are adequately protected (which it seems is not the case at this point in time) I'm not sure what this will achieve.
Report therhino August 29, 2013 9:54 AM BST
Maybe you don't buy a TV 4 times thebas, but you do think the whole buy now pay later thing was so cool you go back and buy a couch, a new bed, playstation and so on. Banks routinely lend money for houses people can't truly afford, so where is the moral objection to banks lending credit?
Report nickw August 29, 2013 10:05 AM BST
i think we all agree that nobody should be given unlimited credit..
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 10:09 AM BST
yep understand Rhino

but the issue of 'chasing gambling losses' was my (poor lol) analogy point

a product is an item that at least that can be used enjoyed or resold i guess

a gambling loss is purely a ledger balance that will fall due for payment ... requiring more credit i guess to try and recoup losses
Report bigted. August 29, 2013 10:11 AM BST
will we all have to go to church as well Scared

cant wait to live in the 50s again..
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 10:23 AM BST
Report therhino August 29, 2013 10:51 AM BST
The self exclusion comment spoon was just general speak, wasn't really applying it to the credit argument. No one needs to explain to me how evil pokies are, I know all about it.

100% thebas on the gambling money being gone for good, at least with furniture you can get a small percentage back. I still think at the end of the day, if all due dilligence is performed, this helps no one. The problem is with the application, not the concept itself.
Report logroller August 29, 2013 12:02 PM BST
no credit afforded on the stock market then (please dont tell me it's not gambling) no credit given for currency trading,  have you not heard of 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, without credit the whole monetary system world wide would not exist, and why should one industry be afford more than anyother, don't come back with harm minimisation either because credit in the hands of a fool is equally both parties agreed risk.
Report got beat by a whisker-again August 29, 2013 12:08 PM BST
What do I have to do to get $80,000 in creditConfusedConfusedSurprisedExcitedExcited
Report logroller August 29, 2013 12:09 PM BST
get a job
Report got beat by a whisker-again August 29, 2013 12:10 PM BST
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 12:23 PM BST
stock markets and currency trading are subject to margin calls ... loose maybe but qualified and up front advised

maybe if sports gambling houses offered some 'margin control' as well ... they would get consideration
Report logroller August 29, 2013 12:24 PM BST
and AD, if you are going to put a point across please try and make it at least creditablepun intended. i buy things everyday with some one else's money its called CREDIT, cars,houses,food,drink the list goes on and on, OF COURSE it's my right to use credit and like everything else if i dodn't adhere to the agreement between the parties - IPAY FOR IT
Report logroller August 29, 2013 12:27 PM BST
thebas . to answer your question about getting credit..............usually a clients history or word of mouth or some sort of verbal guarantee from existing clients
Report logroller August 29, 2013 12:32 PM BST
thebas, there is no business data base for bookies clients, and they very rarely confirm about their clients
Report Thebas August 29, 2013 12:33 PM BST
cheers loggy ...
Report Aussie Driver August 29, 2013 12:46 PM BST
Oh dear
Report wombleoz August 29, 2013 11:13 PM BST
I have no problem with limiting betting on credit - not sure why the thread got hijacked in that direction


The Liberal Party under Tony Abbott has clearly stated it will ban online poker.

As I have discussed in previous articles, Tony Abbott and Nick Xenophon announced at a joint press conference in 2012 their desire to crack down on online gambling, including poker. They want the laws enforced and the poker sites shut down. Tony Abbott has said “…every smartphone is a poker game and that's just not on as far as the Coalition is concerned. It is a dark cave into which people can so easily retreat and there they are beyond help”.

But it gets worse. The Coalition’s ‘Policy to help problem Gamblers’, just released in August 2013, reads as follows:

“Labor’s review of the Interactive Gaming Act proposed removing restrictions on online poker – a proposal that would have turned every smart-phone in Australia to a legal, handheld casino.”

“There are ongoing community concerns that the current laws prohibiting certain online gambling, such as online poker and casino games, are not being enforced… The Coalition will investigate methods of strengthening the enforcement of the IGA and ensuring Australians are protected from online gambling operators.”

Or put another way...Australia’s Black Friday is coming.

Some in the poker community have argued that online poker is not a high-order issue for the Liberal Party and thus easily forgotten. This is true. After all, an Abbott government will be focused on repealing the Emissions Trading Scheme, the Mining Tax, and various other Labor policies they have vowed to dismantle.

However, the counter argument is this - it is an easy ban to implement. Online poker has no lobby group behind it, no politically active community, and no funding it can put into emotive campaigns against such a ban. In other words, online poker is unable to run the same sort of campaign the Clubs did to protect the pokies.

Banning online casino gaming is a painless way for a government to appear tough on gambling, and it is for this reason online poker is particularly vulnerable.

Of course, this will ignore the real source of problem gambling in Australia - the pokies. Pokies cause 80% of problem gambling in Australia, while the percentage of problem gambling associated with poker is so small it does not even register on the survey.
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 12:41 AM BST
If poker goes, what's next???

... this might answer your question of ... "not sure why the thread got hijacked in that direction"  Wink
Report spyvspy27 August 30, 2013 1:13 AM BST
Gotta give credit where credit is due imo
Report Live_in_Hope August 30, 2013 1:16 AM BST
lend me $5K then thanks spy -
gear change coming up, next week or so Wink
Report spyvspy27 August 30, 2013 1:20 AM BST
Gear change won't help a mental problem but the 5k is being transferred as we speak
Report Joel August 30, 2013 1:21 AM BST
Report Live_in_Hope August 30, 2013 1:23 AM BST
got it  - thanks
Report Live_in_Hope August 30, 2013 1:25 AM BST
FROM 830xxxxx REF NO SPYxxx   sav $5000.00    bal $5008.17
Report spyvspy27 August 30, 2013 1:34 AM BST
Ps interest is 5% per week
Report Live_in_Hope August 30, 2013 1:39 AM BST
i choose the second week in May 2022
Report spyvspy27 August 30, 2013 1:42 AM BST
Fair enough
Report AFL August 30, 2013 1:54 AM BST
Quite is the start of Abbott's pay back to Clubs Australia, for their help.

Just as their FRAUDBAND Plan is the start of the Murdoch Payback.
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 2:04 AM BST
pretty sure gillard walked away from pokie reform also Laugh Laugh

(but i'd have to ask wilkie first  Wink )
Report AFL August 30, 2013 2:18 AM BST
Who's position did Clubs Australia support?

Labor or Liberal?
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 2:24 AM BST
what did wilkie say about gillard ?

the day after Slipper quit the coalition ... and became gillard's 'numbers' man ... and wilkie was no longer needed ... and her 'promised' pokie reform to wilkie dissapeard ... (like last wages in a **** casino Laugh )

with gambling ... i wouldn't trust either party to do anything different other than what is .. self-serving
Report AFL August 30, 2013 2:24 AM BST
It is aimed to assist in tipping more gamblers into the CLUBS and off the Internet.

Win-Win  for Abbott.
Report AFL August 30, 2013 2:27 AM BST
Politics is a numbers game

and she didn't have enough to get the legislation through.

Partly due to the scare campaign from Clubs Australia.
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 2:28 AM BST
i understand what you are saying AFL

but has Rudd's Gambling policy updated Gillard's & Labor's gambling Policy ... or is it still open slather for the Club's

i can't see where Labor's Gambling Policy in relation to Club's & Pokies is any stronger or safer for the problematic amongst us ?
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 2:29 AM BST
[]ididn't have enough to get the legislation through.[/i]

she dropped wilkie's plan the day after Slipper gave her the numbers again   Laugh
Report Hal August 30, 2013 2:51 AM BST
Surely on line gambling in all its forms has to grow, and the numbers going to clubs to play pokies decline.

When the clubs get the point that too many of their problem gamblers are going over to the net then they will ratchet up their considerable lobbying powers to government under the guise of caring for those "poor" people.

Off topic I went to my local club this Wednesday to meet friends for lunch, I was early, so I thought would go to their TAB to have a look. I was advised Mon to Fri the Club TAB does open until 4:00pm.

And this is a very big club.
Report Hal August 30, 2013 2:53 AM BST
* does not open until 4:00pm
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 3:05 AM BST
good point Hal and also AFL and the clubs linkage to political parties

but it would be unwise not to think about probity also in relation to internet gambling casinos and poker tables

nothing about online cash poker tables is safe from two or more players sitting down at the one table and communicating their hands to each other via mobile phone and ip addresses don't cut it as far as security from dishonest practices

2 things ... any money australians deposit online to overseas based tax-exile companies will come back to australia less cents in the dollar

money gambled in australian clubs will be taxed and some returned to the govt and our country

tournament poker would be continued apparently if major changes took place under a new govt .. but not individual player games

any Australian Poker site that has their probity guaranteed & pays their taxes would have a good case for continuation imo

there is a case (not moral but fiscal) that any overseas based tax-exil gambling companies probably should be shut out from any sovereign nations access

i wonder why st vinnies & red cross don't apply for australian based legal gambling licences like Lotto which should be in the hands of service organisations desperately needing funds and not private companies (see the history of lotto from germany and tell me how individuals got licences - sorry robert sangster & family  Sad)

we as ozzies are gonna gamble .. the question is who gets the rake ... and who picks up the pieces of the problem gamblers that 'lose it all' on the chances
Report THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON August 30, 2013 3:37 AM BST

Online poker has no lobby group behind it,

Just you wait. 888Warney will bring himself on from the Southern End, put a few around the bat and ......

Bigears won't last an over Silly
Report logroller August 30, 2013 7:29 AM BST
you guys do realise that there are NO Australian poker sites? or casino sites, or pokie machine/slots sites
Report Thebas August 30, 2013 7:44 AM BST
yeah i think lasseter's offshoot aussie based was the one ... and it closed about 5 years ago

not cause it was illegal but i think the punters broke the bank lol

bout time we had one again maybe ... then its a business paying taxes in oz and might get a lobbyist to champion its existence
Report wombleoz August 31, 2013 1:09 AM BST
Labor's policy is to let people use online poker rooms set up in Australia to play tournament poker - sensible move imo
Report shiraz August 31, 2013 1:27 AM BST
......"online poker rooms set up in Australia to play tournament poker".

My understanding is that there are no Australian based poker sites because of the IGA and that the current government just does'nt actively pursue overseas sites to stop them offering their services to people based in Australia.  Betfair have poker but it cannot be played in Australia because they abide by the laws (based on the fact they would lose their Aus gaming licence).
Report Lets Elope August 31, 2013 4:19 AM BST
aliyana should have gone close last start  with a clear run and a agood chance here for mine if I was having a bet.
Report Lets Elope August 31, 2013 4:20 AM BST
wrong thread sorry
Report wombleoz August 31, 2013 11:57 PM BST
from the same article Shiraz - i'd hope they would stick with this approach


While Julia Gillard was still Prime Minister, her Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy, endorsed a plan to trial legal online poker whilst cracking down on all other forms of online casino gaming (roulette, poker machines, black jack and so forth).

The fact Labor were even willing to make this distinction – most politicians still think ‘pokies’ and ‘poker’ are the same thing – was a huge win for online poker players.

However, with Rudd taking power and Conroy quitting his position as Minister (he was a Gillard supporter), we are at the status quo ante. The work Conroy did on this issue will largely be forgotten. This means the approach to online poker under a future Rudd Labor Government will be the same as it was under the previous Rudd government - we will be able access and play online poker as we do now, but it will still exist in a the legal grey area.
Report Thebas September 1, 2013 12:02 AM BST
'the legal grey area'


wasn't that the area that julia gillard made her home  Grin


ps  playing cash on-line poker with a digital algorithm shuffling and dealing and playing against invisible opponents talking to each other on mobile phones via turkanistabulikaaaaaaan is potentially damaging to your bank account

cash tournaments ... beacuse of the timeframe taken to play and the arbitrary moving between tables ... is both a nuisance and safer at the same time

play with your kids folks .. or help out an oldie at a refuge if you have that much time on your hands Wink
Report PittsburghPhil September 1, 2013 7:06 AM BST

This means the approach to online poker under a future Rudd Labor Government will be the same as it was under the previous Rudd government

Gotta love your optimism, Womble.

The only chance of a "future Rudd Labor Government" would be if he switched to Queensland state politics. He might turn out to be the Labor equivalent of Joh Bjelke-Petersen.
Report wombleoz September 1, 2013 2:41 PM BST
it's not over till it's over Phil Cool

agree re cash games Thebas - that's why they are only looking at tournament poker
Report pokeron September 3, 2013 4:08 AM BST
all i gotta say is i just cashed some money out of pokerstars after coming fourth in a $3 rebuy with 418 runners. thanks for coming.
important to differentiate between pokies and poker.
pokies sucks balls and i fail to see the fascination with it.
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.


Instance ID: 13539