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30 Jul 13 01:56
Date Joined: 10 May 04
| Topic/replies: 1,190 | Blogger: Castiron's blog
I see from the recent Betfair announcement, that Qld have followed Vic and will not charge Betfair, on turnover.

Surely this is the right time, for Betfair, to stop operating on NSW racing.

Show some balls, Betfair and just do it.
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Report Josh-T July 30, 2013 2:05 AM BST
Can't agree with this at all. Betfair has played this superbly, albeit in hindsight. In the end NSW may be the only State alienated with a T/O charge (though WA are probably still miffed about the court case 5 years ago).

It's surely more annoying to Racing NSW that the other bodies have come to the party, and Betfair still operates on their products :)
Report Kye July 30, 2013 7:56 AM BST
Josh, i can't disagree more. Betfair have played this extremely bad for about 6 years.

I agree with Castiron that they should be cutting NSW. Why reward NSW by giving them extra tax than the other states? NSW are the winners & they won't see this announcement as a threat to their increased revenue. Only ceasing to operate on their product will hurt them and give them an incentive to rethink their charges.
Report nickw July 30, 2013 8:10 AM BST
Iam with Kye and castiron
Report Lets Elope July 30, 2013 9:01 AM BST
Tell V'landys and Co. to stick it up their arrse sideways!!!

Then we'll see how clever the NSW racing brains trust is, between them all they would be lucky to effectively organise a chook raffle.
Report IanCP July 30, 2013 9:36 AM BST
The liquidity on Australian racing is still poor. The way forward is to educate to Australian public on the fact that the exchange model gives them a fairer deal. If we look historically at Betfair's involvement in Australian racing we find that NOT participating is playing into the hands of the vested interests....pulling out wouldn't teach them anything, imo. We need to mobilise and evangalise.
Report nickw July 30, 2013 10:02 AM BST
Maybe somebody should tell betfair that Ian
Basically no promotion any more
Seems they are happy with there lot
Report IanCP July 30, 2013 10:43 AM BST
I don't think they fully appreciate the potential market relative to the population, Nick. When they were trying to get a foothold here there was a hardcore base of reasonably intelligent punters who understood the whole concept of value. Mark Davis and then Andrew Twaites did an awesome job establishing a beach head, but the concept still hasn't really taken hold. You are quite right. The betting exchange model should be the premier platform for punting in Australia by now. If that were so, NSW would have no option but to accept and adapt. Sadly, it hasn't happened. But it still can.
Report Live_in_Hope July 30, 2013 11:49 AM BST
I wonder how much overseas money is invested in our pools - not much by the look
Report IanCP July 30, 2013 8:40 PM BST
wouldn't think so. Probably more Australian money going into UK pools than staying locally.
Report Joel July 30, 2013 11:16 PM BST
Betfair has over 300,000 Australian customers and more than 4 million customers worldwide to which it actively promotes wagering on Australian racing. Only 23% of Betfair’s customers on NSW racing reside in NSW, with a greater percentage of punters (30%) from outside of Australia.
Report Live_in_Hope July 30, 2013 11:38 PM BST
300,000 customers and 21 active forumites - sh1t there must be something wrong with me Sad
Report wombleoz July 30, 2013 11:48 PM BST
would be interesting to know how much turnover has dropped on NSW racing the last 12 months + how that has effected profitability

interesting being on course a bit more recently and seeing how many bookies have betfair running
Report IanCP July 31, 2013 12:16 AM BST
Interesting stats, Joel. Do you know if those percentages relate to the number of customers or the amount wagered ?  Would be interested to see how much Australian money is bet on events outside Australia comparative to domestic events.
Report Joel July 31, 2013 12:31 AM BST
Not sure, just got that from the link in the Betfair Post about QLD dropping the turnover charge
Report jfc July 31, 2013 2:07 AM BST
From my standpoint, my action is roughly:

20 Aus
80 Other (where I'm usually not awake)

And furthermore my Australian action is dominated by only 10 races a week. On average.

Which doesn't get me far as I simply get stuck on very loaded queues there.

This provoked my suggestion to Betfair that it realise the nature of action here is different to elsewhere, and it can do nothing to expand those 10 races vertically.

So it should instead try to expand horizontally through Quinellas et al.

But so far there is no evidence of anybody else warming to that idea.
Report nickw July 31, 2013 2:40 AM BST

Do you think the type of punters that take quinellas would be on betfair?

Maybe betfair could take No commish out of the slow markets and really push this thru email etc.
Report jfc July 31, 2013 2:55 AM BST
Betfair has nearly 1,000 Quinellas and Exactas weekly away from Australia.

And we theoretically should do better than those because of available approximates comparisons with the 2 Tabcorp ugly alternatives.

But all I can figure from the miserly action last Sunday is that people won't even look at the healthy opportunities there.

From what I've gathered Betfair might be happy to do marketing promotions on them.

But when there's nearly zero traction like Saturday, it's more likely Betfair won't bother ever putting any more on.
Report Live_in_Hope July 31, 2013 2:55 AM BST
my 85 year old grandma takes quinellas
Report jfc July 31, 2013 3:09 AM BST
And so do many of the sharpest punters in the last 50 years.

Perhaps because they have no objection to competing against 85 year olds?



I'm not deliberately trying to threadjack this discussion about V'Landys.

There is a actually a Quinella thread below.

And I'm more than happy to debate all comers.

Particularly as it seems there are so few.
Report Live_in_Hope July 31, 2013 4:43 AM BST
im well past gambling on a random outcome AND a random collect
Report justthetip July 31, 2013 4:47 AM BST
They would lose quite a lot of premium charge revenue if they stopped offering NSW racing
Report wombleoz July 31, 2013 10:31 PM BST
JFC - looking out for himself once again imo

way I see it is that the more pools that are available the more diluted they become - less pools = biggers pools
Report jfc July 31, 2013 11:53 PM BST
In my initial post on this thread I already explained why that is rubbish.

For example consider Goodwood tonight.

The biggest pool currently is R3.

Nearly 3 times that of R1.

Yet my Hold on R1 is 20% bigger than R3.

Simply because my Lays are often in very long queues.

This typically happens here as well.

For example my Melbourne Cup hold is far from the biggest for the year.

And grows smaller every year.

A Betfair Quinella on that would avoid the traffic jam, by providing another avenue for my action.
Report wombleoz August 1, 2013 11:07 PM BST
confirms my first line
Report jfc August 2, 2013 1:26 AM BST
Your first line is absurd on so many levels that I'm surprised that you'd draw attention to it again.

For example when some counter-party grabbed the $6.40 I was offering about a clear favoured way Quinella that the opposition was offering for merely $2.10, how could that be of any possible benefit to me?

My counter-party undoubtedly benefited.

If this comes off, Betfair should benefit by finding a significant new earnings stream, with minimal effort on its part.

Quinella players will benefit.

And the vulture quants waiting to see if I survive, will then flock to Quinellas in droves, imitating my methods and completely shutting me out.
Report wombleoz August 4, 2013 1:53 PM BST
i'll stand by argument that more pools reduce liquidity

you are a very generous chap JFC
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