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Bets refunded
Sportsbet has confirmed it has refunded $150,000 in bets after More Joyous failed to place, having been the strong favourite.
It says the decision to refund all bets on More Joyous is known as a justice refund, a measure taken when the competition is considered unfair.
"We don't think the horse had a fair shot at winning because we don't think she was right and so therefore we don't think the punters had a fair shot at winning their money," Sportsbet spokesman Haydn Lane said.
Singleton's public comments prompted a stewards' inquiry, where Gai Waterhouse claimed More Joyous had been treated with an antibiotic on Thursday for heat in her neck.
This was a problem Singleton's vet John Peatfield and stable vet Leanne Begg considered minor.
Dr Peatfield examined the horse on Saturday morning and declared she was fit to race.
Singleton was asked to name the source of his information about Tom Waterhouse.
"If I'm legally obligated I will do that, but I'm not prepared to give them up," he told stewards after the race.
"It is an embarrassment to them. They told me not to back the horse.
"All my horses are leaving the stable [on Sunday]."
and
Rugby league Immortal Andrew Johns has emerged as one of the people Tom Waterhouse is believed to have told about More Joyous' fitness concerns before her stunning flop at Randwick on Saturday.
Fairfax Media understands the mare's high-profile owner, John Singleton, confronted the bookmaker's mother, Gai, More Joyous' trainer, in an ugly spat after the betting ring drifter ($2.50 out to $3) finished seventh in the group 1 All Aged Stakes. Singleton told a stewards inquiry into the matter he grilled Waterhouse prior to the running of the All Aged Stakes about advice he had received ''from friends of mine who I trust implicitly'' that More Joyous was not fit to run on the final day of the Sydney carnival.
He said he was preparing to have a six-figure bet on the 10-time group 1 winner. ''I was advised [Saturday] morning by a friend of mine that he was with Tom Waterhouse, Gai's son and a bookmaker, and close friends of mine, internationally known figures, that Tom Waterhouse advised them [Friday] night that the horse had no chance and had problems," Singleton said.
Waterhouse declared More Joyous wouldn't have run if she had any issues and that she passed vet checks on race morning after receiving treatment for heat on her neck on Thursday. ''It's hearsay and John has gone flying off because of hearsay,'' Waterhouse told the inquiry, claiming her son denied to her he made claims to friends that More Joyous wasn't fit for her 32nd race start.
Singleton refused to reveal his sources. He described one as an ex-group 1-winning jockey and others as internationally known people. When told by Racing NSW chief steward Ray Murrihy that Waterhouse deserved to know who had passed that information on to him, Singleton said: ''I told Gai of them before the race.''
Fairfax Media learned that Singleton has been advised not to comment further on the matter after contacting his racing manager Duncan Grimley last night.
Attempts to contact Johns were also unsuccessful. Tom Waterhouse has denied making an adverse comments about the fitness of More Joyous and staunchly defended his part in the saga, tweeting his book on the All Aged Stakes to more than 14,000 followers. It suggested the final result was a ''strip out'' for his firm and he also would have lost on the race if More Joyous had won. ''Mum wouldn't have started it if it had faults,'' he said. Gai Waterhouse's bookmaking husband Robbie Waterhouse also exchanged expletives with Singleton following the inquiry.
Sportsbet will refund more than $150k to More Joyous' backers after the fiasco.The inquiry will continue on Friday and no findings have been made.
To me its clear the mare's run was what would be considered - along way below her normal standards and even well below her latest form. Interesting claims being made that would have to affect the integrity of aus horse racing whether they are found out to be true or not. Wonder if other bookies will follow sportsbet and refund bets - like tom waterhouse :)
Bets refunded
Sportsbet has confirmed it has refunded $150,000 in bets after More Joyous failed to place, having been the strong favourite.
It says the decision to refund all bets on More Joyous is known as a justice refund, a measure taken when the competition is considered unfair.
"We don't think the horse had a fair shot at winning because we don't think she was right and so therefore we don't think the punters had a fair shot at winning their money," Sportsbet spokesman Haydn Lane said.
Singleton's public comments prompted a stewards' inquiry, where Gai Waterhouse claimed More Joyous had been treated with an antibiotic on Thursday for heat in her neck.
This was a problem Singleton's vet John Peatfield and stable vet Leanne Begg considered minor.
Dr Peatfield examined the horse on Saturday morning and declared she was fit to race.
Singleton was asked to name the source of his information about Tom Waterhouse.
"If I'm legally obligated I will do that, but I'm not prepared to give them up," he told stewards after the race.
"It is an embarrassment to them. They told me not to back the horse.
"All my horses are leaving the stable [on Sunday]."
and
Rugby league Immortal Andrew Johns has emerged as one of the people Tom Waterhouse is believed to have told about More Joyous' fitness concerns before her stunning flop at Randwick on Saturday.
Fairfax Media understands the mare's high-profile owner, John Singleton, confronted the bookmaker's mother, Gai, More Joyous' trainer, in an ugly spat after the betting ring drifter ($2.50 out to $3) finished seventh in the group 1 All Aged Stakes. Singleton told a stewards inquiry into the matter he grilled Waterhouse prior to the running of the All Aged Stakes about advice he had received ''from friends of mine who I trust implicitly'' that More Joyous was not fit to run on the final day of the Sydney carnival.
He said he was preparing to have a six-figure bet on the 10-time group 1 winner. ''I was advised [Saturday] morning by a friend of mine that he was with Tom Waterhouse, Gai's son and a bookmaker, and close friends of mine, internationally known figures, that Tom Waterhouse advised them [Friday] night that the horse had no chance and had problems," Singleton said.
Waterhouse declared More Joyous wouldn't have run if she had any issues and that she passed vet checks on race morning after receiving treatment for heat on her neck on Thursday. ''It's hearsay and John has gone flying off because of hearsay,'' Waterhouse told the inquiry, claiming her son denied to her he made claims to friends that More Joyous wasn't fit for her 32nd race start.
Singleton refused to reveal his sources. He described one as an ex-group 1-winning jockey and others as internationally known people. When told by Racing NSW chief steward Ray Murrihy that Waterhouse deserved to know who had passed that information on to him, Singleton said: ''I told Gai of them before the race.''
Fairfax Media learned that Singleton has been advised not to comment further on the matter after contacting his racing manager Duncan Grimley last night.
Attempts to contact Johns were also unsuccessful. Tom Waterhouse has denied making an adverse comments about the fitness of More Joyous and staunchly defended his part in the saga, tweeting his book on the All Aged Stakes to more than 14,000 followers. It suggested the final result was a ''strip out'' for his firm and he also would have lost on the race if More Joyous had won. ''Mum wouldn't have started it if it had faults,'' he said. Gai Waterhouse's bookmaking husband Robbie Waterhouse also exchanged expletives with Singleton following the inquiry.
Sportsbet will refund more than $150k to More Joyous' backers after the fiasco.The inquiry will continue on Friday and no findings have been made.
To me its clear the mare's run was what would be considered - along way below her normal standards and even well below her latest form. Interesting claims being made that would have to affect the integrity of aus horse racing whether they are found out to be true or not. Wonder if other bookies will follow sportsbet and refund bets - like tom waterhouse :)
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they could probably refund bets placed at best of 4 / tote bets and bsp BUT bets placed on the exchange would be hard unless they declare the race as non event etc.
gets more interesting by the minute ...
who knows what (if anything) is in this ...
... but now that a racing participant Sporstbet is publically involved by refunding bets & saying that something doesn't 'look quite right' ... must have only one affect
... PVL, the stewards and ALL involved in RNSW ... MUST have an enquiry and a full check of the betting records of ALL betting & laying done on the race and specifically the mare ...
and to LET THE PUBLIC KNOW the findings
a huge blow to the credibility of the game ... if an enquiry does not now occur
who knows what (if anything) is in this ...
... but now that a racing participant Sporstbet is publically involved by refunding bets & saying that something doesn't 'look quite right' ... must have only one affect
... PVL, the stewards and ALL involved in RNSW ... MUST have an enquiry and a full check of the betting records of ALL betting & laying done on the race and specifically the mare ...
and to LET THE PUBLIC KNOW the findings
a huge blow to the credibility of the game ... if an enquiry does not now occur
Did anybody catch todays footy show or whatever they call it, with Sterlo, Johns etc, Sterlo brings up the MJ affair, Johns says TW said he was taking on IADD etc, but AJ very last words re MJ & what TW said were, he said its off, did anyone see the show this morning and can confirm or did I hear things?
I think you might have?
Speaking on Channel Nine's Wide World of Sports, Johns said that although he and Waterhouse had discussed horses on Friday night, Waterhouse had not told him More Joyous had a problem. Johns said he backed the champion mare himself.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/i-backed-more-joyous-waterhouse-m...
Speaking on Channel Nine's Wide World of Sports, Johns said that although he and Waterhouse had discussed horses on Friday night, Waterhouse had not told him More Joyous had a problem. Johns said he backed the champion mare himself.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/i-backed-more-joyous-waterhouse-m...
But his very last sentence was he said shes off, or something similar, hence why Sterlo said and you still backed it
Geez
Am i reading that right the Corp will refund money ?
That has to be a first,publicity stunt or exercise in public relations,
(I'm not giving my Lay profit back)
Am i reading that right the Corp will refund money ?
That has to be a first,publicity stunt or exercise in public relations,
(I'm not giving my Lay profit back)
just keeps getting more and more interesting ... you know .. who said what and to whom 
... and Tom ... was this just being 'clever' ... or did you really have an independent bet on MJ and if so with whom
In fact, I backed the horse,” Waterhouse said. “I lost $300,000 on the race.”
... and Tom ... was this just being 'clever' ... or did you really have an independent bet on MJ and if so with whom
In fact, I backed the horse,” Waterhouse said. “I lost $300,000 on the race.”
Well, as you well know, if you lay the rest more than 1 and have a positive position on 1, then you have effectively backed it. You don't need to physically back the horse to have a positive position on it, which is the same thing.
Yeah also a bit strange
He's betting 6/4, 2/1, and 11/4 on 3 runners plus another combined 20% on the 5 other runners and he's trying to make us believe he still lost $300 thou on the race ???
Pleeease Tom go back and have a talk with Bill.
He's betting 6/4, 2/1, and 11/4 on 3 runners plus another combined 20% on the 5 other runners and he's trying to make us believe he still lost $300 thou on the race ???
Pleeease Tom go back and have a talk with Bill.
that's how i read it too BJT
... might be just a 'clever' statement ... that might have the pub punter thinking tom actually independently backed MJ
of course he may well have backed MJ ... be interesting to know with which bookie or agency
if the following statement by singo turns out to be a crock of garbage ... ie someone passed chinese whispers to singo ... or if it wasn't even said in the first place ... then it isn't over until legal settlement maybe
it's quite a definitive statement tho ? .... the stewards will sort it our for us
"I was told this morning by a friend of mine, a close friend, who is (an ex) Group I jockey that he was with Tom Waterhouse, Gai’s son and bookmaker, last night with close friends of mine that are internationally known figures,” Singleton said.
"Tom Waterhouse advised them last night that the horse had no chance. She had problems and that surprised me because I intended to have a six-figure sum bet on the horse because my advisors said it was a certainty.”
.... i'll just sit back and bask in the theatre that is yet to play out
... might be just a 'clever' statement ... that might have the pub punter thinking tom actually independently backed MJ
of course he may well have backed MJ ... be interesting to know with which bookie or agency
if the following statement by singo turns out to be a crock of garbage ... ie someone passed chinese whispers to singo ... or if it wasn't even said in the first place ... then it isn't over until legal settlement maybe
it's quite a definitive statement tho ? .... the stewards will sort it our for us
"I was told this morning by a friend of mine, a close friend, who is (an ex) Group I jockey that he was with Tom Waterhouse, Gai’s son and bookmaker, last night with close friends of mine that are internationally known figures,” Singleton said.
"Tom Waterhouse advised them last night that the horse had no chance. She had problems and that surprised me because I intended to have a six-figure sum bet on the horse because my advisors said it was a certainty.”
.... i'll just sit back and bask in the theatre that is yet to play out
One can only imagine how it would have played out that he was informed of what was said after he put 100k into Toms bag to back his own horse that Tom knew had "no chance"... 
Guess we just have to watch the pg version we have in front of us instead...
Guess we just have to watch the pg version we have in front of us instead...
Singo knew/expected pre race all was not right, MJ runs up to his suspicions, and you think TW did his backside on the race? as Richie C would say, puhleez
Poor Tom I might offer him my set next week to help him out and get some cred back with the common man like myself and judge
speaking of kicking a man while he's down - that's what Sportsbet is doing by offering the refund imo
Thebas are you Xenophon??? He is calling for an inquiry as well
Thebas are you Xenophon??? He is calling for an inquiry as well
lol womble .. for the record no i am not xeno
... but i DO want a list of all those who think an inquiry shouldn't take place .... and i want names
look ... in the end singo says he got the message wrong .. cause he doesn't want to put his exG1 mate under the pressure of the industry ... or it goes ahead with the exact statement that singo made
let's look at that damning statement again ...
"I was told this morning by a friend of mine, a close friend, who is (an ex) Group I jockey that he was with Tom Waterhouse, Gai’s son and bookmaker, last night with close friends of mine that are internationally known figures,” Singleton said.
"Tom Waterhouse advised them last night that the horse had no chance. She had problems and that surprised me because I intended to have a six-figure sum bet on the horse because my advisors said it was a certainty.”
... now if that is the case ... surely even the memory-lapsing gillard would understand that an inquiry HAS to take place
if not for the situation under scrutiny ... but for RNSW and PVL to appear to be doing something .. so that we don;t drive every last younger potentially interested in the racing game person away from what is just ... as someone else has alluded to ... a simple game of supply & demand ... well where certain parties have the right to set the rates and tout the losers
i mean Tom .. really ... did you not think at some point giving people refunds on bets for your mom's horses wouldn't be sneered at by some in the industry
and sportsbet might be having a last laugh ... at RNSW ... $150k worth of free advertising ... seeing it was RNSW that stiifed them over the race fields rubbish fee
INTEGRITY RNSW ... the people must have their day ... let the Inquiry begin (whoops almost wrote inquisition)
... but i DO want a list of all those who think an inquiry shouldn't take place .... and i want names
look ... in the end singo says he got the message wrong .. cause he doesn't want to put his exG1 mate under the pressure of the industry ... or it goes ahead with the exact statement that singo made
let's look at that damning statement again ...
"I was told this morning by a friend of mine, a close friend, who is (an ex) Group I jockey that he was with Tom Waterhouse, Gai’s son and bookmaker, last night with close friends of mine that are internationally known figures,” Singleton said.
"Tom Waterhouse advised them last night that the horse had no chance. She had problems and that surprised me because I intended to have a six-figure sum bet on the horse because my advisors said it was a certainty.”
... now if that is the case ... surely even the memory-lapsing gillard would understand that an inquiry HAS to take place
if not for the situation under scrutiny ... but for RNSW and PVL to appear to be doing something .. so that we don;t drive every last younger potentially interested in the racing game person away from what is just ... as someone else has alluded to ... a simple game of supply & demand ... well where certain parties have the right to set the rates and tout the losers
i mean Tom .. really ... did you not think at some point giving people refunds on bets for your mom's horses wouldn't be sneered at by some in the industry
and sportsbet might be having a last laugh ... at RNSW ... $150k worth of free advertising ... seeing it was RNSW that stiifed them over the race fields rubbish fee
INTEGRITY RNSW ... the people must have their day ... let the Inquiry begin (whoops almost wrote inquisition
)
did Robbo ever ride a Group 1 winner???
I think having the inquiry on Friday is a smart move - will give everyone a chance to settle down a bit - my prediction it will be like Howard on WMD's
"I don't recall"
I think having the inquiry on Friday is a smart move - will give everyone a chance to settle down a bit - my prediction it will be like Howard on WMD's
"I don't recall"
or gillard on setting up the massive million dollars plus re-appropriation of union member's funds .. into what she said was a "slush fund" for her boyfiend
"i have no recollection"
..... sorry mate, don't know about who the G1 jockey might be ... BUT Tom was there ... so the whole family now KNOW who that person is
and a 'person of interest' usually gets a phone-call ... from someone ... don't they
"i have no recollection"
..... sorry mate, don't know about who the G1 jockey might be ... BUT Tom was there ... so the whole family now KNOW who that person is
and a 'person of interest' usually gets a phone-call ... from someone ... don't they
or an envelop full of cash - either way I can't see it going anywhere, it's in no one's best interests for it to go any further
it's in ... EVERYONE'S interests ... in the racing industry until ...
until we find out if Singo sticks by the story ... and if the story is then verified by the G1 jock ... as well as the International friends ... supposedly present
once that is all ruled out ... however that happens ... then it is over
... it's the phrase ... "the horse had no chance" ... that is of greatest concern
had it been ... "i think she can get beat" ... then we could all move on
the great mare was GONSKI 300m out ... yet opened 6/4 ...
there should be more inquiries for mine ... not less
until we find out if Singo sticks by the story ... and if the story is then verified by the G1 jock ... as well as the International friends ... supposedly present
once that is all ruled out ... however that happens ... then it is over
... it's the phrase ... "the horse had no chance" ... that is of greatest concern
had it been ... "i think she can get beat" ... then we could all move on
the great mare was GONSKI 300m out ... yet opened 6/4 ...
there should be more inquiries for mine ... not less
Who did Robbie tip on his Punters Show ratings and what did his book on the race look like?
"my advisors said it was a certainty".........yeah it was gonna be so easy to beat all too hard
spyvspy27 28 Apr 13 04:36
Did anybody catch todays footy show or whatever they call it, with Sterlo, Johns etc, Sterlo brings up the MJ affair, Johns says TW said he was taking on IADD etc, but AJ very last words re MJ & what TW said were, he said its off, did anyone see the show this morning and can confirm or did I hear things?
Confirmed in this mornings Daily Telegraph that he did say it, but now he said he got his words mixed up, his manager John Fordham wouldn't elaborate when he was asked to clarify Andrew Johns remark.
Got his words mixed up? Funny how Sterlo then said you still backed it and Johns says yes and they both laugh
Did anybody catch todays footy show or whatever they call it, with Sterlo, Johns etc, Sterlo brings up the MJ affair, Johns says TW said he was taking on IADD etc, but AJ very last words re MJ & what TW said were, he said its off, did anyone see the show this morning and can confirm or did I hear things?
Confirmed in this mornings Daily Telegraph that he did say it, but now he said he got his words mixed up, his manager John Fordham wouldn't elaborate when he was asked to clarify Andrew Johns remark.
Got his words mixed up? Funny how Sterlo then said you still backed it and Johns says yes and they both laugh
it's an awful situation for RNSW ... Pvl prob hasn't slept in 3 days
the 'words used' all have stink around them for anyone in the industry
"has NO chance" ... and ... "said it's off" ........... all have one meaning to hardened punters unfortunately
let us hope they resolve this one quickly ...
... stewards did swab the mare post-race i assume
the 'words used' all have stink around them for anyone in the industry
"has NO chance" ... and ... "said it's off" ........... all have one meaning to hardened punters unfortunately
let us hope they resolve this one quickly ...
... stewards did swab the mare post-race i assume
it is an awful situation, so you would think the cheif stipe would be at home working on gathering evidence etc
nope old Ray off down to warrnambool , lapping it up with gai having a grand old time !!
incredible
nope old Ray off down to warrnambool , lapping it up with gai having a grand old time !!
incredible
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