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TRAINER Danny O'Brien has joined the chorus of concern over the annual invasion of European horses, declaring no Australian runner can win the Melbourne Cup until they are treated as favourably as the internationals.
O'Brien has adopted an attitude of "if you can't beat them, join them", buying a share in the ownership of French galloper Prairie Star and taking over the horse's training.
But the experience of training Prairie Star from the Werribee quarantine centre has only confirmed his view.
"There won't be an Australian horse win the Melbourne Cup while they have to be trained on Pro-Ride (artificial) tracks and gallop at four (o'clock) in the morning," O'Brien said.
"The horses out here at Werribee have the whole racetrack to themselves, one groom for every horse and they can do it all at their leisure."
O'Brien acknowledges that every trainer with a Cup prospect can't come to Werribee and, likewise, the quarantine regulations have to be observed.
But he believes racing administrators could give Cup entrants more use of the course proper at major training centres like Flemington.
"There are vast strips of ground at Flemington that never get a hoof on them," he said.
Prairie Star has certainly benefited from the Werribee facilities, but O'Brien said he was likely to dodge the major Cups and target a lesser spring goal, possibly the Coongy Handicap (2000m) on Saturday week.
O'Brien travelled to France to see Prairie Star's final run in Europe and admits he was unimpressed with both the horse and his performance.
"He didn't look much good over there and was very light and plain when he arrived ... he didn't look good," he said.
"But we've put him on an Australian diet and given him some Australian training and he's put on 25kg."
O'Brien has adopted an attitude of "if you can't beat them, join them", buying a share in the ownership of French galloper Prairie Star and taking over the horse's training.
But the experience of training Prairie Star from the Werribee quarantine centre has only confirmed his view.
"There won't be an Australian horse win the Melbourne Cup while they have to be trained on Pro-Ride (artificial) tracks and gallop at four (o'clock) in the morning," O'Brien said.
"The horses out here at Werribee have the whole racetrack to themselves, one groom for every horse and they can do it all at their leisure."
O'Brien acknowledges that every trainer with a Cup prospect can't come to Werribee and, likewise, the quarantine regulations have to be observed.
But he believes racing administrators could give Cup entrants more use of the course proper at major training centres like Flemington.
"There are vast strips of ground at Flemington that never get a hoof on them," he said.
Prairie Star has certainly benefited from the Werribee facilities, but O'Brien said he was likely to dodge the major Cups and target a lesser spring goal, possibly the Coongy Handicap (2000m) on Saturday week.
O'Brien travelled to France to see Prairie Star's final run in Europe and admits he was unimpressed with both the horse and his performance.
"He didn't look much good over there and was very light and plain when he arrived ... he didn't look good," he said.
"But we've put him on an Australian diet and given him some Australian training and he's put on 25kg."
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Yeh Danny its definitely the tracks fault.
Theres 9 options for work at HQ including the steeple grass & inside grass apparently.
Theres 9 options for work at HQ including the steeple grass & inside grass apparently.
apparently?, so your an expert, at the track each day and thinks the course proper is just as good as the inside tracks?
own a racehorse and judge for yourself the **** conditions.
own a racehorse and judge for yourself the **** conditions.
calm down,its a discussion board last time i looked
youve read an awful lot into 1 statement
no wonder people dont want to have an opinion here
youve read an awful lot into 1 statement
no wonder people dont want to have an opinion here
no ones getting over excited, you made your opinion which is respected, i just added back why you think theres other tracks on course.
everyone has an opinion, i just question yours like its a discussion, which it is, maybe you should calm down, there was never any ill towards your opinion.
everyone has an opinion, i just question yours like its a discussion, which it is, maybe you should calm down, there was never any ill towards your opinion.
Reads as aggressive when you start with "so your an expert"....also should be "you're" but anyway
just passing on what the track manager said:
Flemington track manager Mick Goodie refuted any suggestion that the Flemington course proper was over-managed and said that there were "plenty of options" for Flemington based trainers to prepare cups horses.
"I meet with the trainers group once a month and to my knowledge there are no problems at the moment. You'll always have people having an issue though when they're having a lean patch," he said.
"In all there are nine tracks here that they (trainers) can use, as far as turf goes they can use the steeple grass and the inside grass two to four days before any city meeting. Because of the amount of horses in training here I have to restrict the load on the tracks, and yes it's regimented but that's the way it has to be."
just passing on what the track manager said:
Flemington track manager Mick Goodie refuted any suggestion that the Flemington course proper was over-managed and said that there were "plenty of options" for Flemington based trainers to prepare cups horses.
"I meet with the trainers group once a month and to my knowledge there are no problems at the moment. You'll always have people having an issue though when they're having a lean patch," he said.
"In all there are nine tracks here that they (trainers) can use, as far as turf goes they can use the steeple grass and the inside grass two to four days before any city meeting. Because of the amount of horses in training here I have to restrict the load on the tracks, and yes it's regimented but that's the way it has to be."
great another grammer cop, anyway
ive had the pleasure once experiancing ownership of a racehorse, it was trained at flemington.
tuesdays and thursdays were her ( filly) main trackwork mornings and i would make the effort to turn up 4.30am these days when in training.
the stupid thing about this exercise was you only seen the horses 50 metres from where they begin to pull up and trainer and owner/s ( me and a mate )would have to rely on what the jockey said about the gallop. all the time the attendant would take the horse back and quickly take out another ready for a gallop whilst someone else may hose the horse down. jits like a production line.
it was like bourke st melbourne at lunch time with horses waiting to get onto the track for a gallop.
100's of horses using flemingtons track facilities.
what he said it exactly what is happening, werribee race course being used on the course proper by only 16 horses in prestine conditions and each horse is cared one on one and the trainer and owners if in attendance can witness these gallops.
i can only imaging caulfield is worst.
ive had the pleasure once experiancing ownership of a racehorse, it was trained at flemington.
tuesdays and thursdays were her ( filly) main trackwork mornings and i would make the effort to turn up 4.30am these days when in training.
the stupid thing about this exercise was you only seen the horses 50 metres from where they begin to pull up and trainer and owner/s ( me and a mate )would have to rely on what the jockey said about the gallop. all the time the attendant would take the horse back and quickly take out another ready for a gallop whilst someone else may hose the horse down. jits like a production line.
it was like bourke st melbourne at lunch time with horses waiting to get onto the track for a gallop.
100's of horses using flemingtons track facilities.
what he said it exactly what is happening, werribee race course being used on the course proper by only 16 horses in prestine conditions and each horse is cared one on one and the trainer and owners if in attendance can witness these gallops.
i can only imaging caulfield is worst.
just concentrate on training a winner danny and if you find shopoholics 2 legs , sew them back on 
not doubting any of that but its hardly news,danny doesnt even train there anymore
its not as though they've driven down from seymour
40 hrs on a plane with 3 stops at their own expense
they also dont set the quarantine regulations,this has been happening for 20 yrs
no trainers bitching about this when the euros couldnt win one from sandown with cars roaring
around the track
its not as though they've driven down from seymour
40 hrs on a plane with 3 stops at their own expense
they also dont set the quarantine regulations,this has been happening for 20 yrs
no trainers bitching about this when the euros couldnt win one from sandown with cars roaring
around the track
no trainers bitching about this when the euros couldnt win one from sandown with cars roaring
around the track
now you are talking shyt, sandown track was closed for the internationals to do their quarantine and track work daily.
around the track
now you are talking shyt, sandown track was closed for the internationals to do their quarantine and track work daily.
obrien added.
"There won't be an Australian horse win the Melbourne Cup if they have to train on the (artificial) Pro-Ride at Flemington and you've got these facilities here (Werribee)," he said.
"You've got a horse like Maluckyday at Flemington that is not allowed to gallop on the course proper. All he can do is work on the sand or the Pro-Ride and he's got to do all that at 4am.
"It's probably incumbent on the local clubs to give the local Cups horses a little bit of a spoil. There is no reason why the Melbourne Cup Flemington-trained horses like Maluckyday couldn't go out on the course proper two or three times a week.
"It would help the build-up to the race. The management is just belligerent about it. They don't see beyond their own little kingdom."
O'Brien said the Flemington track was "40 metres of turf (wide) and some of it never sees a horse's hoof" and that horses at Werribee were on "beautiful virgin turf every day"
Maluckyday's trainer John Hawkes was less vocal than O'Brien, but said the internationals were advantaged by daily use of the grass.
"But we're used to it and you just have to deal with it, simple as that," he said.
"It's been the same for years with the internationals, whether it's Sandown or Werribee. Of course it's an advantage but I can't see if changing."
"There won't be an Australian horse win the Melbourne Cup if they have to train on the (artificial) Pro-Ride at Flemington and you've got these facilities here (Werribee)," he said.
"You've got a horse like Maluckyday at Flemington that is not allowed to gallop on the course proper. All he can do is work on the sand or the Pro-Ride and he's got to do all that at 4am.
"It's probably incumbent on the local clubs to give the local Cups horses a little bit of a spoil. There is no reason why the Melbourne Cup Flemington-trained horses like Maluckyday couldn't go out on the course proper two or three times a week.
"It would help the build-up to the race. The management is just belligerent about it. They don't see beyond their own little kingdom."
O'Brien said the Flemington track was "40 metres of turf (wide) and some of it never sees a horse's hoof" and that horses at Werribee were on "beautiful virgin turf every day"
Maluckyday's trainer John Hawkes was less vocal than O'Brien, but said the internationals were advantaged by daily use of the grass.
"But we're used to it and you just have to deal with it, simple as that," he said.
"It's been the same for years with the internationals, whether it's Sandown or Werribee. Of course it's an advantage but I can't see if changing."
Am I naive to ask why the trainers with an issue don't simply move their horses to Werribee?
werribee is set up as quarantine for the overseas horses only, all other horses are banned.
they the trainers know they are on a good thing, hence they dont ask to share stables with the local trainers at flemington.
they the trainers know they are on a good thing, hence they dont ask to share stables with the local trainers at flemington.
Remember vividly one year that there were cars on the track on the Sunday before the cup..
Interesting how differently people remember certain events
http://www.theage.com.au/news/horse-racing/sandown-track-hard-on-the-internationals/2006/10/08/1160246012572.html?from=rss
From memory the Japanese went on to quinella the race that year,obviously the trainers were travelling better than D O'B
Interesting how differently people remember certain events
http://www.theage.com.au/news/horse-racing/sandown-track-hard-on-the-internationals/2006/10/08/1160246012572.html?from=rss
From memory the Japanese went on to quinella the race that year,obviously the trainers were travelling better than D O'B
i have no idea why you added that link, every race course in australia was prepared for fast tracks. it wasnt until a few overseas horse trainers threaten never to return, whinge they did, australian horses had to race on the same hard tracks and many broke down in the cup.track conditions today are different to back then.
what is your the point you are trying to make?
and that year it suited the japanese horses who loved hard tracks and proved superior to all other internationals and the locals.
what is your the point you are trying to make?
and that year it suited the japanese horses who loved hard tracks and proved superior to all other internationals and the locals.
and i do recall they watered sandown heavily to calm the raiders or whingers, take yor pick.
few overseas horse trainers threaten never to return, whinge
calm the raiders or whingers
On whinging thread - you ever heard of hypocrisy? 2 things strike me about the op - firstly why buy a horse that you have travelled halfway round the world to see and are thoroughly unimpressed with - smells like bs to me? Secondly don't aussie trainers have their own gallops - polytrack and grass - to train their horses on and then finish them off on the track if need be? So 90-95% of the work is done on trainers gallops and 5-10% on the course if needed - there is the odd racecourse gallop over here but courses aren't used to train the horses.
calm the raiders or whingers
On whinging thread - you ever heard of hypocrisy? 2 things strike me about the op - firstly why buy a horse that you have travelled halfway round the world to see and are thoroughly unimpressed with - smells like bs to me? Secondly don't aussie trainers have their own gallops - polytrack and grass - to train their horses on and then finish them off on the track if need be? So 90-95% of the work is done on trainers gallops and 5-10% on the course if needed - there is the odd racecourse gallop over here but courses aren't used to train the horses.
spyker, ltns....you are missing the point what these trainers are saying.
and yes there were huge whingers years ago , like dermott weld and a obrien threatening not to come back, one continues to come back, the other went home with his pants around his ankles and hasnt been back since.
and yes there were huge whingers years ago , like dermott weld and a obrien threatening not to come back, one continues to come back, the other went home with his pants around his ankles and hasnt been back since.
lets not forget the cups are handicaps and eventually the invaders will be given the right weights. im tipping in a few years they wont be so keen to shell out 10s of thousands of pounds or yen or shekels or whatever to come across and try their luck with a couple of kgs extra.
LIH...you are totally correct, melb racing clubs have been bending over backwards to make the cup/s a international feel, for way too long they have aloted low weights to better perform european handicappers so they can get them to australia.
we may have better sprinters than the world, but staying stocks are poor, always has been.
sadly the peoples race wont be just that anymore, they would have been better off having a 2 mile race for 6 million and call it the international hcp if they are so obcessed getting these horses to australia.
we may have better sprinters than the world, but staying stocks are poor, always has been.
sadly the peoples race wont be just that anymore, they would have been better off having a 2 mile race for 6 million and call it the international hcp if they are so obcessed getting these horses to australia.
hence why they dont target the cox plate and a few other wfa races such as the BMW, queen elizabeth, doomben cup etc - all carrying huge prizemoney
here's what you can have, a grade a, first class, undeniably professional trained, head pounding hammer smash
fk off turdburger
fk off turdburger
not whinging - just stating the facts - send yah f vcken 10 start 2 win 2800 metre 6 year old stayers out to contest our wfa races and see how they perform - instead our big handicaps are targeted where they get in light - well it wont happen much longer - so as Carpenter decides to get fair dinkum
must be talking to someone else, back on the topic at hand
anyone remember Septimus?
oh what a great race that was, they tried to run it like a boring old pre-planned you know what is going to happen UK staying race
it ended in failure.
anyone remember Septimus?
oh what a great race that was, they tried to run it like a boring old pre-planned you know what is going to happen UK staying race
it ended in failure.
Get in light,you mean have all the top weights.Have a day off.
at least vinney row was weighted right - i admired that horse actually, showed guts under the circumstances
Any of our average handicappers can win G1 races in oz,why?Because anything that races over a mile in oz is crap.Fact.
doesnt matter if they are top weights or bottom weights - if they carry less than they should they are in light
there's only one word that involves max which is relevant when used towards him, overweight
you fat ****, just **** off.
you fat ****, just **** off.
Where's Megsy?does he still think BC would give Frankel wind burn 
Any of our average handicappers can win G1 races in oz
so why dont they contest some of our other wfa distance races
christ most are worth a million or two, that sort of money is unheard of 'over there"
so why dont they contest some of our other wfa distance races
christ most are worth a million or two, that sort of money is unheard of 'over there"
More important races over here,money is nothing to most owners here,glory tastes good though.
"money is nothing to most owners"
what a pile of ****, you just keep on spitting it out don't you
suppose money is nothing to you too, you just bet daily and lose consistently because glory tastes good when it rarely happens, in theory that's exactly what you're saying
what a pile of ****, you just keep on spitting it out don't you
suppose money is nothing to you too, you just bet daily and lose consistently because glory tastes good when it rarely happens, in theory that's exactly what you're saying
Come on now Ed,you know what a brilliant punter i am.
"But we've put him on an Australian diet and given him some Australian training and he's put on 25kg'.......HUGE LAY....
PMSL....WHAT A MUG.
PMSL....WHAT A MUG.
Wouldn't want to be standing behind the fecker when it let's loose that lot.More than Mugsy an Ed put together 
You couldn't make it up.......it's not our fault they don't have any decent training facilities...FWIW most of the European trainers would prefer the pro-ride rather than a cr@ppy strip of 'grass'on the racecourse.
Sounds like a mug of the highest order imo......i shouldn't expect anything else from Mugsy though.
You wouldn't think carrots were that fattening Tree...............although they could be Mooney 'specials'...
.......although they could be Mooney 'specials'...
I have put on 3 stone of muscle since i started the Moody carrot juice diet.
Imagine what size the poor B@stard will be by the time it runs.........it will have to be drawn 14,15 & 16!!!.....
......it will have to be drawn 14,15 & 16!!!.....
you're a brilliant aftertimer that's all you are
oh and top****wit, who the **** gave you the right to come in here and post in an australian forum, you're a ****g irish peasant, **** off out of here
speaking of putting on 5, how about I put on 5 right around your chin you fat **** max
oh and top****wit, who the **** gave you the right to come in here and post in an australian forum, you're a ****g irish peasant, **** off out of here
speaking of putting on 5, how about I put on 5 right around your chin you fat **** max
i see B1 and B2 are on daddies computer again, grow up MAX, fcuk off my blog.
and by the way, your 8-10f horses are not any better than ours, just our trainers prepare horses better, just look at manighar, 7 year old hack who couldnt win in oz in a handicap until and australian trainer took over it.
european stayers are miles better, but up to 10f...you got to be fcuking kidding, SYT showed that and theres a few around today probably equal or better.
and by the way, your 8-10f horses are not any better than ours, just our trainers prepare horses better, just look at manighar, 7 year old hack who couldnt win in oz in a handicap until and australian trainer took over it.
european stayers are miles better, but up to 10f...you got to be fcuking kidding, SYT showed that and theres a few around today probably equal or better.
D O'Brien is hardly in the very top echelon of our trainers for starters when's the last time he trained a decent winner despite running a stable with large numbers?
Maluckyday's trainer [i]John Hawkes was less vocal than O'Brien, but said the internationals were advantaged by daily use of the grass.
"But we're used to it and you just have to deal with it, simple as that," he said.
"It's been the same for years with the internationals, whether it's Sandown or Werribee. Of course it's an advantage but I can't see if changing."[/i]
hawkes is up with the top trainers.
"But we're used to it and you just have to deal with it, simple as that," he said.
"It's been the same for years with the internationals, whether it's Sandown or Werribee. Of course it's an advantage but I can't see if changing."[/i]
hawkes is up with the top trainers.
how Red Cadeaux was given 55kg is amusing,rises only .5kg afyrt he ran an unlucky 2nd in the melb cup last year and hasnt been out of the place in group 1,2,3's since and screaming for 2 miles.
poor more joyous a 7-8f specialist is up there with the top weights, never expected her to run, but ffs having 56kg against stayers
then you have ethiopia with 1 win to he's name in 5 starts with only 4kg less than the top weight
yes the europeans are well looked after
poor more joyous a 7-8f specialist is up there with the top weights, never expected her to run, but ffs having 56kg against stayers
then you have ethiopia with 1 win to he's name in 5 starts with only 4kg less than the top weight
yes the europeans are well looked after
and poor old 9 yr old EFFICIENT whom has been scratched was given 3 kilos less that the top weight and he hasnt even won in 3 years
My life would be worse without Mugsy and Ed,you just make my day 
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