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18 Jul 12 17:24
Date Joined: 30 Oct 04
| Topic/replies: 27,711 | Blogger: BJT's blog
These guys can't still be in business?  A while ago these 2 were running Betfair endorsed seminars and flogging off all their little subscription services.  Well it seems they are still at it, and a new seminar they just hosted with self proclaimed "Best Betfair trader in Australia", the badger, and woody woodpecker.

Anyway, if anybody is struggling with making a profit on BF, check them out.  For just 97 dollars a month, +77 dollars if you want the badgers ebook, you can have these "professionals" guiding your trades.  They have actually pretty good results.  They are doing a hell of a lot better than I thought they would be doing.
Nearly 7 months into the year and they are only showing a loss of 31 units, betting around 1-2 units per market.

Surely the only people subscribing to this crap are only doing so to oppose them in the market?

But there you go STS, they concentrate on many different sports and they are the most profitable and skilled punters/traders on Betfair.  See, it can be done.  Just ask them........ Confused

Check them out here.  But make sure you look beyond the ridiculous hand picked graphs, and remember, you can scroll across to see the hidden loss balance, and watch out for the tricky all green P/L column to hide all the losses....
Seriously, they would have been better off keeping their p/l statement hidden, like they used to....

Feel free to enter your bad dealings with these 2 here.....  At the very least, after BF pulled the threads, at least they stopped doing business with them?
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Report VeryLTU July 19, 2012 3:18 AM BST
lol... must be great seminars, i see all the clients come down to the cas floor ready to profit on the roulette wheels.. and they're all wearing their free betfair caps and clutching a free copy of betfair for dummies ..LaughLaughLaugh
Report Josh-T July 19, 2012 4:20 AM BST
I noticed their losses are down to 10 units...not really a happy 2012 for them. It sounds like Woody would be better off on his own.

The Badger is a unique beast. He is tormented by the guys at Geeks Toy (for reasons I'm none too sure about but something to do with not revealing his true P&L?).  As you say was once hired by Betfair - and now he publicly blasts them on twitter (& punters show) as well as opening flaunting trades on NSW racing (which he said he wouldn't do...)

That's the first clue he can't be going that well, or is using a myriad of accounts. The top traders are banned aren't they?

As some of you will know he was the key trader at Centaur in the UK...and left before they went bust.

What did they say in the X-Files?

"Trust no-one"
Report BJT July 19, 2012 5:53 AM BST
The issue with Geeks Toy goes a bit further than not revealing his P/L.  It is more about how he advertises himself as the best trader on BF, states that he makes 400 dollars an hour trading sports, but has never backed it up.  He spams ebooks, has at least 5 different websites trying to sell subscription services, and really is dishonest in every sense of the word.  He is a typical show recordings of his winning trades, keep all the losing ones from public viewing sort of marketer.  He was challenged for a predetermined set of races, to prove his worth as a trader, to which he accepted then chose to apparantly take the day off after the fact because he obviously didn't have a good day.  He was then challenged to show his P/L to prove he makes what he says, to which he was offered thousands of dollars in donations to charity, plus free advertising space on Geeks Toy forums for his product.  He also turned that down.

Whilst working for BF (or being subcontracted or whatever) doing their advanced trading seminars, he was asked why use Betfair Evolution (Racing Traders newest product), to which he replied "I have no financial interest in this product, I have spoken to the owners and they allow me free use of the product throughout the year and customers of mine a discount on the product".  Of course the reality is Adam Todd sold the rights to the program to a lady with the peculiar surname "Hargraves" who just so happened to have the same first name as his wife.  Hmmmm.
Not to mention Centaur trading or whatever they were that he was one of the main traders for, went bust, and by all reports took off with all their customers money.

As for Woody Woodpecker, I really haven't had many dealings with him apart from spotting him in disguise talking about how good these seminars were that those 2 blokes were running.  Think he went by the name "Swallow", except the keen eye of the Geek himself managed to compare the woody woodpecker avatar he used, and the woody woodpecker picture on the mans own website advertising his direct involvement and partnership with badger.

They were even advertising on these seminars that by going would turn you profitable.  Using BF to guarantee becoming a successful punter/trader by going on their courses as they are the best going around.  400 an hour he claims he makes, yet the proof is in the pudding.  7 months in, and a combined 31 units down, betting 1-2 units per stake.

Ridiculous marketers such as these 2 need to be stopped.  Charging 100 a month for a losing system.  And obviously people are getting sucked into it, BF themselves were sucked in at one point, on the back of the Centaur collapse ffs.

Filthy I didn't accept the offer from BF for a free seminar with them.  Would have been a cracker of a day.

How these people are allowed to operate is beyond me.
Report Craig The Speculator July 19, 2012 6:01 AM BST
i personally would back Scott Woodward's Rugby League knowledge against anyones
Report BJT July 19, 2012 6:15 AM BST
Well as I said, I haven't had many dealings with him.  But as the saying goes, you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.  And regardless of who he was previously, he is now a partnership, and until they come up with a stronger flea removal product, those fleas aren't going anywhere.
The question needs to be asked why somebody showing a 10 unit profit on NRL would team up with somebody costing him 40 units in that same period, what his goals are, and his decision making processes.

Do you actually have anything to back that up Craig, or is he another that believes you show enough aftertiming, and profit only statements and people won't realise the losses you make? 
Real question there, not at all leading.
Report Josh-T July 19, 2012 6:52 AM BST
Thanks for all the info BJT! I knew a little, but you have all the info.

I sat as a spectator at one of the seminars, and can confirm that piece about not having a relationship with Evo.

Look I've got nothing personal against the guy, but I am surprised Betfair and now the Punters Show have a relationship with him.

Do you know much about the Priomha Group? I had heard good things about them, but when I read one of their traders has an e-book I thought no...surely not?!
Report Josh-T July 19, 2012 6:53 AM BST
* as in he said he didn't have a r'ship but I thought no, that's not right..
Report BJT July 19, 2012 7:37 AM BST
From all reports his wife left him and kept RT, so technically it could be perceived as not 100% false, but very deceiving all the same.

Nothing to say about Priomha Group, I don't have an opinion based on anything apart from a negative opinion of people trading sports with your money.

I notice he stopped updating his results on his thesportstrader website in May.  Making an assumption that his unit size is 20 dollars since he changed from units up/down to a monetary term, and comparison stakes suggest about 20 dollars per unit.

January +42 dollars
February -220.8 dollars
March -151.39 dollars
April 167.66 dollars
May -371.99 dollars, and then for some reason he stopped updating..  Hmmm..  But there is hope for all concerned, he does include this warning "When on Betfair, or any exchange, only use money you are prepared to lose. As with any form of gambling Trading has its risks.
Past performance is not an indication of future performance. If you think you have a problem with Gambling visit: Gamble Aware.

So there is hope that future performances won't be anything like past ones...  Wink
Report budddy July 19, 2012 7:56 AM BST
Uhhh     19 Jul 12 07:48  19 Jul 12 04:45
Joined:Anyone that is selling tips is not a winning punter end of story.

i agree!

i have been to one seminar at paddington rsl about a year ago.
i dont have an issue with them both. the badger definately has a presence about him. if he scammed money off others, well thats obviously different, but putting on seminars/webinars/appearing on the punters show etc.... i welcome it.

ive been trading for a few years now and its hard work.
if it was easy he would of made heaps out of other peoples money let alone his own.
if he keeps away from the dark side & makes his business transparent.... well, goog luck to him.Tongue Out
Report VeryLTU July 19, 2012 11:21 AM BST
suggestion:  check out punters choice and you will find subscription services from "winning punters" that are fully subscribed and have been for decades.
Winning punters don't sell tips ????   NOT true.
Report Craig The Speculator July 19, 2012 1:33 PM BST
BJT - mainly from watching his you tube previews - he doesn't do many anymore but his knowledge and opinion of the players even the ones starting out is usually spot on

Steve Kearney could have done with listening to him as he has never been a fan of Chris Sandow or Ben Roberts - guys that Kearney based his year around this year

just my view
Report BJT July 19, 2012 3:08 PM BST
Noted.  And to be honest, and in all fairness, have heard a few times that he is a very knowledgeable NRL guy.
Marketing of that however, and a few things have left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I will leave my opinion at that for now.  For him.
Report Craig The Speculator July 20, 2012 4:37 AM BST
were you saying overall the year to date return was down for Champion Profits but they were ahead on the Rugby League component?
Report Josh-T July 20, 2012 4:59 AM BST
Craig they appear to be winning on AFL and NRL - therefore heavily down on everything else.
Report Craig The Speculator July 20, 2012 10:20 AM BST
thanks Josh - i guess that further backs up Scott
Report CrazySnake July 20, 2012 5:50 PM BST
I can possibly shed some light on Badger...suspect he is struggling because he bought the Racing trading software and the turnover tax put the kibosh on local trading. Means his only market is to sell to the Poms.
Plus, the introduction of the extra PC charge got him as well. That only affected hedgers, not punters.
Report CrazySnake July 20, 2012 5:52 PM BST
Oh, and another thing, Champion profits will always do well on NRL. Scott is a gun at that and has tons of inside info. Not sure about anything else though.
Report Josh-T July 21, 2012 3:59 AM BST
You can certainly tell he bought it - there hasn't been one software update or change to its functionality in 2 years or so. I'm not saying it isn't a good product - but it's lost its progressive position in the market.
Report FTP1 July 21, 2012 12:01 PM BST
I think the Badger must be a good trader, i saw this on Youtube and it looked pretty impressive to me.

I agree with other posts, Scott apparently has an intimate knowledge of rugby league and is considered one of the best judges on Rugby league, although i personally do not bet on rugby league.

As for the other issues mentioned on this thread i have no knowledge about them.
Report The_KAMIKAZEE_DRINKING_MACHINE July 21, 2012 12:43 PM BST
Fascinating stuff. I've just gotta take dump. Back soon.
Report educeee July 21, 2012 1:03 PM BST
I don't fall into these youtube vids where posters brag about how much they won in an in-play scenario.. why? well it's real simple, a genuine person would post up their losing trades as well, all his are all about the perfect trade where he won a big pile of cash

I use to think he was the real deal until he felt the necessity to sell off an e-book labelled "Easy Trader Pro 2", basically it just has well known trading strategies that will result in a profitable situation more times then not, not worth the cash to be honest. Any joe could figure out these strategies for themself.

I actually think highly of ChampionPicks their form analysis on horse racing is generally very good, I don't pay the fee however as it is an outrageous amount of money and quite a big risk but I do get emails from them every now and then and I certainly do read what is written
Report Barney The Bot Slayer July 21, 2012 1:14 PM BST

Hope it all worked out well
Report Craig The Speculator July 21, 2012 1:25 PM BST
Uhhh • July 21, 2012 12:35 PM BST
Why would Scott need to sell tips if he wins?

possibly ego?
Report educeee July 21, 2012 1:25 PM BST
if anyone wants a copy of Easy Trader Pro 2, inbox me
Report Craig The Speculator July 21, 2012 1:29 PM BST
i don't understand what you mean - you very negative fella?
Report logroller July 21, 2012 1:33 PM BST
spot on Craig specky its about the EGO.............its not a dirty word
Report Craig The Speculator July 21, 2012 1:33 PM BST
277 posts i haven't read you say one positive thing
Report Craig The Speculator July 21, 2012 1:38 PM BST
thanks log glad you agree

uhhh - whilst there is no substitute for backing your own judgement (if its good) if you aren't winning you could do worse than follow someone you find to be successful - with punting often its not enough to win money but punters want to be seen to be smart too imo so therefore will give away their good tips
Report Craig The Speculator July 21, 2012 1:41 PM BST
maybe i've missed the positive ones
Report CrazySnake July 21, 2012 1:50 PM BST

Here's a take for you...I buy an NFL service in the off season. It has won every year I have used it bar one, and handsomely across 9 years now.
I asked him why he sells his tips when he could just as easily bet them and clean up. He said, and I quote:

"I make pretty decent money from selling the tips and when you make a living from punting as I do it sure does take the pressure off knowing you have a steady stream coming in no matter what."

I paraphrased. I can't remember the exact words, but that was the gist.
Report logroller July 21, 2012 1:52 PM BST
crazyone is it Dr Bob on the NFL
Report educeee July 21, 2012 1:56 PM BST

Jul 21, 2012 -- 1:50PM, CrazySnake wrote:

Stars,Here's a take for you...I buy an NFL service in the off season. It has won every year I have used it bar one, and handsomely across 9 years now.I asked him why he sells his tips when he could just as easily bet them and clean up. He said, and I quote:"I make pretty decent money from selling the tips and when you make a living from punting as I do it sure does take the pressure off knowing you have a steady stream coming in no matter what."I paraphrased. I can't remember the exact words, but that was the gist.

hook me up CoolCool

Report nickw July 21, 2012 1:59 PM BST
dont judge everybody else on what you do
Report CrazySnake July 21, 2012 1:59 PM BST

No it's not Dr Bob. I would prefer not to say who it is.
He's very good. PM if you want to know.
Report Craig The Speculator July 21, 2012 2:00 PM BST
your opinion uhhh and thanks for taking the time to write it
Report logroller July 21, 2012 2:01 PM BST
Uhhh has a fair point though, my 8year old nephew tips more AFL winners in a season than me, but i know how to bet
Report CrazySnake July 21, 2012 2:01 PM BST
Seriously, ed?
Report educeee July 21, 2012 2:02 PM BST
yeah sure, if you're making profit every year for 9 days, why wouldnt I want to jump in
Report educeee July 21, 2012 2:02 PM BST
9 years*
Report CrazySnake July 21, 2012 2:07 PM BST

Check your inbox.
Report CrazySnake July 21, 2012 2:52 PM BST
I stopped tipping on AFL cos I noticed our tips were moving the prices. I haven't put up a tip in 4 or 5 weeks.
I'm not kidding.
Report buzzer July 21, 2012 3:25 PM BST
The only reason to sell your tips is so, after you've got on at the value, the subscribers force the price in............
tip takers aren't, usually, price sensitive and don't understand the concept of betting they just want a winner and don't see the bigger/long term picture.
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 3:33 PM BST
Honestly boys, your pushing **** uphill as it is in this game...... if you cant work out who on here actually is making money you've got no chance Cry
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 3:34 PM BST
Fcuk this stupid fcuking censors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly boys, your pushing sh!t uphill as it is in this game...... if you cant work out who on here actually is making money you've got no chance
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 3:43 PM BST
Stars - surely you can work out on here actually makes money?
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 3:47 PM BST
Mate I agree.

But surely you can get a pretty good handle on  most people within a few days of reading them..... If your looking to learn something on this forum your not going to have much luck.... All IMO of course Cool
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 3:55 PM BST
Well there actually is....

My point is, there are a couple posters /ex posters on here who clearly know what they are talking about
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 4:09 PM BST
This forum, any forum....

Surely you can work out who on here you can actually learn from?

Take for instance - there is a bloke on there that posts under the name of Carey (Hi Carey if you are reading this) who after reading his posts you know instantly the bloke is a fountain of knowledge! And you know what, as much as he clearly knows (and as big as his ego clearly is) he has no issue at all in listening what other people have to say.... as opposed to most forums (i.e. here)
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 4:15 PM BST
In a nutshell stars that is my point... There is a very select few people on maybe 3 or 4 forums that i read who i actually try and learn from, i have no problem in saying that either, im not so fckuking stupid to think i know more than everyone, but i'm smart enough to know who actually to take notice of Plain
Report Dark....Target July 21, 2012 4:23 PM BST
Im off to watch Dunaden - was slaughtered last time so hopefully its given half a chance tonight tonight
Report whoopi July 21, 2012 10:53 PM BST
I have found that when people like you say that others aren't making a profit at punting what they are actually saying is they can't make a go of it themselves.
However your self opinion is so inflated you can't believe that if you can't do it, then nobody else can.
I have no idea who is making an overall profit of the forum posters and unless you have clairvoyant super powers neither do you.
If you try to open your mind and think a bit laterally you'll have better chance. You seem a bit stuck in old school methodology.
Report logroller July 22, 2012 3:13 AM BST
Date Joined: 26 Jul 04
Blogger: CrazySnake's blog Add contact | Send message
When: 21 Jul 12 14:52 Joined: Date Joined: 26 Jul 04 | Topic/replies: 1,645 | Blogger: CrazySnake's blog
I stopped tipping on AFL cos I noticed our tips were moving the prices. I haven't put up a tip in 4 or 5 weeks.
I'm not kidding.

Get a grip crazyone, is your ego that big that u think tips on this forum from you can move prices
Firstly there r never more than 20 people reading this forum at any one given time, and secondly last week when the whole forum were tipping North, and i do mean it was an overall agreed opinion by all, the price moved a whopping 3-5cents best given was 2.30 and before the game u got still get 2.25 from the tabs and 2.27 in smaller places, the pro's dont move prices on sport in this country anymore, it is both the combination of the pro's and general money heading in the same direction, the North game was a classic example, and this week the freo/GWS game is another (at the line than is)
Report Village Kid July 22, 2012 3:48 AM BST
spot on loggie CrazySnake/CleverShrek's ego is as big as his self proclaimed ability = LIMITLESS

as for Uhhh as he's now known....this bloke obviously has serious mental issues as proven my his
flooding of the forum with Jamtim's old threads and total inability to listen to or post anything sensible

I couldn't careless if anyone believes this or not, I'm long term winning punter and I've sold tips.
Why??, because it's fuken awesome, you get $$$ and are ahead before you have a bet
it's GUARANTEED INCOME, which you don't have as a punter.  And if your tips are cr@p who's going to keep buying them???

Not only that but I know two others who post here that are winners and also sell tips

rant and rave, abuse me, I don't's the truth, 100% fact....THERE ARE WINNING PUNTER WHO SELL TIPS
to argue otherwise makes you look a complete fool!!
Report earlycrow July 22, 2012 4:12 AM BST
I've said that all along, it's just smart bussiness
Report Castiron July 22, 2012 5:12 AM BST
Thanks, VK.

I was only thinking the other day, what was Crazy Snake's alter ego from eons ago. I did remember it had the same initials.

Of course he always denied he was congratulating himself on being so clever. Wink
Report earlycrow July 22, 2012 7:38 AM BST
You maybe right, I can't see how it would make getting on any harder than it is now, my guess would be small weekend punters are buying tips, not guys trying to get on for amounts like yourself, I could be wrong, more than likely are but why buy tips when you can get the gold I just posted in the race day thread for the last at Hawk for free
Report Dark....Target July 22, 2012 7:41 AM BST
Maybe viewing the raceday threads should be subscription based?
Report earlycrow July 22, 2012 7:43 AM BST
Happy to do my bit to help out those less fortunate for nothing
Report Craig The Speculator July 22, 2012 7:56 AM BST
uhhh - are you really sea the stars?

if so you maybe like sybil with multiple personalities cause as i remember it sea the stars was a smart punter who killed it when trying to win race to race over an extended period where you uhhh are just uggghhh
Report earlycrow July 22, 2012 8:13 AM BST
Gately don't bet, but I get your point, what about when your tips don't win and your left with the subscription money, I would expect anything worth paying for would be more than $30 a week let alone a month
Report earlycrow July 22, 2012 8:30 AM BST
No it's called doing it crow style ffs
Report Live_in_Hope July 22, 2012 8:32 AM BST
**** of a weekend for me - if anyone cares Sad
Report earlycrow July 22, 2012 8:33 AM BST
I can't remember the numbers but was told pollet had a truck load more than 50
Report Craig The Speculator July 22, 2012 8:43 AM BST
see you do have a split personality - when you are STS you write logical,thoughtful and positive posts Grin
Report Craig The Speculator July 22, 2012 8:47 AM BST
no not really - i didn't read them that closely although i remember you would have your battles with da judge
Report CrazySnake July 22, 2012 9:04 AM BST

Seriously, if you have nothing better to do than to troll for opportunities to have shots at me I pity your poor pathetic existence.
You're so sad, I do feel sorry for you.
Report Craig The Speculator July 22, 2012 9:09 AM BST
lol uhhh

i had a few tiring debates with da judge but he did give me some great advice - i actually cut and pasted and saved it - it was as follows

"a good friend of mine,hes a professional card player,manilla is his game of choice,it has made him a multi millionaire,told me this many years ago,he said when i get home after a session of cards,whether i won or lost,i ask myself this question,did i play right,if i answer yes,i am happy,regardless whether i won or lost in that session,because i can't win every night(he fkn wins most)if i won and answer is no,i won't have the money for too long,he does this after every single session
Report CrazySnake July 22, 2012 9:11 AM BST
Happy to say I have learnt from some of you on here. Some smart cookies posting from time to time, and then there's Village Kid Laugh
Report CrazySnake July 22, 2012 9:12 AM BST
He really hates me, Stars. I guess anyone who has a modicum of success would give him the sh!ts.
Report CrazySnake July 22, 2012 9:41 AM BST
In other fields it's called a self edit. Pretty hard to do objectively...
Report Craig The Speculator July 22, 2012 9:46 AM BST
great post seathestars

village kid a bit misunderstood - not a bad bloke actually imo

two things i think of with him

1) his ability to stick to QLD trots and absolutely nothing else (great discipline)

2) he also said to me once about a certain stable you can't be sure whether they are bringing the truck where the horses go fast or the one where they go slow - that's been proven very true
Report Joel July 22, 2012 9:59 AM BST
If they are two different trucks surely it would be free money by going to the track to see which one turns up...I assume they are different colours or something?
Report CrazySnake July 22, 2012 10:06 AM BST
If VK's a good bloke and we're complete opposites I must be a d!ck.

Fair cop Happy
Report whoopi July 22, 2012 10:34 PM BST
All i know anyone that is really winning in this game would never attack others that are losing never ever imo The only ones that do are the ones that think they should be winning but cant win of the punt and want to let out their frustrations on others

LaughLaughLaughThat's funny Uhhhh when you've spent half this thread calling people losers that you can't learn anything from.
Report Strapped July 23, 2012 3:51 AM BST
Do Punter's Choice still produce their magazine?
Report whoopi July 23, 2012 7:16 AM BST
uhhh wouldn't that mean you are admitting to calling 99.99% of them losers? Or am I missing something?
You see this is why solicitors tell their clients to never make a statement to police. They always condemn themselves with their own words.
Report whoopi July 23, 2012 7:27 AM BST
Further evidence your Honour.
The accused Uhhh said the following:Well the fact reason why is because your a loser in this game and just cant stand the thought of someone actually winning..
I rest my cas your honour.
Report whoopi July 23, 2012 7:33 AM BST
high on life my friendLaugh
Report CrazySnake July 23, 2012 8:14 AM BST
23 Jul 12 03:51 Joined: 25 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 32 | Blogger: Strapped's blog
Do Punter's Choice still produce their magazine?

Last edition I could find was 2007. Not sure beyond that point.
Report CrazySnake July 24, 2012 8:10 AM BST
Found this site, they post 6 years of overall P/L and the tips are 100% FREE! (they also have an AFL part which was horrid last year but has made a strong recovery - no I don't follow them Tongue Out)
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