Betfair Punting

P.S I realise there's no "secret" to successful punting...LOL :)
Just thought the question might generate some interesting discussion

For me when trading, definately to have the discipline to lay off at my pre determined price.

Always too tempting for me to let it ride :)

Discipline is a big one for me.

I think if you want to make consistent profit, you must stick to your defined rules.

I'm a punter at heart, which I think a times, doesn't allow me to fully take advantage of BF.

My rule is to stick to my planned stake & not to get sucked into putting more down if it gets out to big price. If it looks too good to be true it usually is.

I'm think of building a significant bank and have a crack at trading
Trading I think is useless, unless you have a decent bank to play with

bet the same amount every race,

Find people you can beat and keep on playing against them is how it works.

Is it easier making money from the sharks on betfair or the pensioners in your local TAB?

A very elderly retired punter told me once that the battle in his time was of two things, and the theme still holds true from most of these posts: Punter's choice or Bookmakers percentage. As he explained ,one is stronger and in the end prevail.He was referencing a time from the sixties from how he was talking.The evolution of betting/punting to what we have today is a quantum leap from this era on a overall marketplace sense however I postulate not to a Individual attempting to make profits from sports and racing.The TAB machines across the country are dying a slow death which is of their making. I reference clearly to take out rates and representatives of those interests holding onto their once monopolistic and bullying attitudes so prevalent in the propaganda campaigns of their minions.This is not only racing but the whole establishment of gambling- Simply reading the combatative arguments of the poker machine lobby is aligned to the same arguments of the TAB'S evidenced throughout the Gambling Inquiry hearings.
I digress, most markets on Betfair trade between 98%- 102% that have some sought of decent liquidity in them.No where else will you get a level playing field.This is as good as it gets between the backers and layers.The one proudest truth of Betfair is that they openly stand by that one wins and one loses in a bet struck.The punter's skill in winning outcomes or bets will determine if a profit or loss is made over time. How many punter's who bet with the TAB UNDERSTAND THIS TRUTH.It is the same thing but all advertising (propaganda) do not openly admit to this.It is all very well to say they don't care(TAB punters) , which in most cases is true , but it doesn't mean they don't deserve options should they choose to exercise them- that is to say "Those with the capabilities have the responsibility" to make sure of a level playing field.
To summarise , whilst us users of the exchange may have our issues on different aspects (ie Charges)- compared with the hidden and greed driven take out rates and attitudes of the TAB'S , I welcome the innovation and competitiveness Betfair has brought to bear.

Aussie Punter

Ps: Apologies for length of post as i was killing a bit of time before the Stormer's -Lions rugby game

A very elderly retired punter told me once that the battle in his time was of two things, and the theme still holds true from most of these posts: Punter's choice or Bookmakers percentage. As he explained ,one is stronger and in the end prevail.He was referencing a time from the sixties from how he was talking.The evolution of betting/punting to what we have today is a quantum leap from this era on a overall marketplace sense however I postulate not to a Individual attempting to make profits from sports and racing.The TAB machines across the country are dying a slow death which is of their making. I reference clearly to take out rates and representatives of those interests holding onto their once monopolistic and bullying attitudes so prevalent in the propaganda campaigns of their minions.This is not only racing but the whole establishment of gambling- Simply reading the combatative arguments of the poker machine lobby is aligned to the same arguments of the TAB'S evidenced throughout the Gambling Inquiry hearings.
I digress, most markets on Betfair trade between 98%- 102% that have some sought of decent liquidity in them.No where else will you get a level playing field.This is as good as it gets between the backers and layers.The one proudest truth of Betfair is that they openly stand by that one wins and one loses in a bet struck.The punter's skill in winning outcomes or bets will determine if a profit or loss is made over time. How many punter's who bet with the TAB UNDERSTAND THIS TRUTH.It is the same thing but all advertising (propaganda) do not openly admit to this.It is all very well to say they don't care(TAB punters) , which in most cases is true , but it doesn't mean they don't deserve options should they choose to exercise them- that is to say "Those with the capabilities have the responsibility" to make sure of a level playing field.
To summarise , whilst us users of the exchange may have our issues on different aspects (ie Charges)- compared with the hidden and greed driven take out rates and attitudes of the TAB'S , I welcome the innovation and competitiveness Betfair has brought to bear.

Aussie Punter

Ps: Apologies for length of post as i was killing a bit of time before the Stormer's -Lions rugby game

Sry for double up : it told me coundn't post -"Invalid data"

Jez,
you must have a limit to lose and of course a % of your bank you want to win like 5-10% not 100% you willl be broke quick smart. never break this rule and you have a chance on the punt. i broke it laying and lost all the cream of my 1st 6months on here in 4 days.

now i couldnt care if i think a horse cant win with a start if i have my 7% i rack the cue.

best advice i ever got was "a winning streak will come to an end BUT a losing streak may go on for ever" so never ,never,ever chase a loss as tomorrow is a new day.

...learn from your mistakes quickly and if it ain't working stop doing it.

for example, it's taken me ages to get to grips with in-running uk nags (i usually back/lay the fav or back/lay the horse that's winning at the time). sometimes goes right, sometimes goes wrong...so, any would-be in-running players out there using this strat be v.careful!

I'm a GAMBLER straight out, ( Being " RIGHT " is a Bigger Kick than how much one Win's, there will alway's be Larger Punter's out there than yourself.But can these guy's compette against your ' Strike Rate " ? )

Rules,
1. Alway's Remember to have " FUN " @ IT !
2. If Money is your " God " you have a " Greater Chamce of LOOSING "
3. Be flexible, Anything Go's,
4. Ect, ect.

* To Trade 1 need's a " Much LARGER Bank " with a Lot off Different Account's. ( Tooo Much like " Work " )

* Hint it can be Much " CHEAPER " to Be a " Layer " ( Example ; with a Bank of $500 -$1,000 you can make some " Good Money " Laying Fav's & Shorties @ 5's meaning 4's Really. taking out $100 per Race. )

5 STAR Advice * * * * *
Comes from : farraflash

Best of Luck, .... to ALL.

Sound advice.....thankyou all for your words of advice. :)

lifetaker.... yr no.1 point is a good1.

theres NO WAY yr going to have FUN if yr consistently losing and its impacting yr life. So, with that in mind, here's my top 2.

1.Pay ALL of your bills first.

They have to be paid, so do it first.its a good feeling. DO IT!! its up2u if you want to have 2 seperate banks. i think its the biggest ....despair? with gambling. we think with a bigger bank we can win more. i,ve been working all week, have a grand, and want to put a fifty on the red at the gardens. gets pipped. what 2 do? we all know the story :(

2. Have rules. live by them. learn from your mistakes.take it serious.

if you do nothing to provide yourself with an 'edge' (replays,connections,whatever),then you will eventually be chewed up and spat out by this most ruthless of games.
Analyse the way you bet,what areas are you succcesful in and what areas need work.
Ask yourself this question,why am i winning/losing?if you can't answer the question then you need to establish new habits based on something more solid than ...I reckon I can do it.

Personally I'm not keen on trading,but will occassionally 'crush' an advantageous situation,moreso in sports than at the puppies.
good luck it's worthwhile if you can make a go of it.

Also keep stringent records of ALL your bets because you need to know what form of punting is making you a profit or not. for instance i would lay horses EW then on reflection found that the placings were taking the cream so now i only lay for a win.

Yeah some good advice there....punting for me is recreational....like most of you...it began as a young fella and a visit to a local race meet, I was hooked, I consider myself a VERY passionate supporter & contributor (where possible) to racing, all codes. For me its not all about the punt, there's something really special about a day/night at the races, spose you could say, some people go to church, I go to the track. I'm not a big punter at all, small stakes punter, but thoroughly enjoy a friday evening & saturday afternoon's on the punt, and since Betfair I've been able to abandon tote betting & I've certainly started to consistently make profit in working the form to find favourites or 2nd/3rd favourites that I don't believe are quite capable of winning a particular race, but hey, its always good to field new ideas.

The addage, "bet with your head, not over it" rings very true in all things gambling,
and is a really important rule, I know in my teenage years, I learnt some valuable punting lessons at the track. Its unfortunate that those that become problematic in there gambling seem to taint us all with the same tag. I'm a punter at heart as I've said, but I have to say, I HATE pokies & whilst I love a night at the casino in the Sports Bar, I can't stand casino games either. It's mindless gambling IMO.

Really appreciate all of your thoughts and ideas.

** VERY ~ IMPORTANT !!

Do Not,
........... DO NOT !!

..............................EMPTY Your BANK, Spending it on " WOMEN & DRINK "


:^0

my women spends mine for me

another rule I think is important

if your unsure, get out.....

I used to be a shocker for betting EVERY race....
even if after studying the form, I was unsure....

You'll very quickly LOSE.

Spend 90% of your time watching replays and doing form

Spend 10% of your time betting

Thanks for putting this topic up jez, similar ones have been on different forums around BF and they usually attract the wrong crowd. I am sure that will not happen here because I think most of the people posting on the Australian forum are here for enjoyment whilst they are punting on BF and are happy to share their experiences, good and bad.
There seems to be quite a few ways to bet here and gain an advantage over other types of betting format.
I do this full time and tennis is all I do seriously. For me it is all about the odds and having the opportunity to put bets at the odds you want provides a clear advantage. BF has provided the perfect platform for "In Play" betting and that is where I have found the true value lies.

Thanks for your thoughts Shiraz.

I must say I am envious, I would LOVE to be a fulltime punter on Betfair, but I reasonably enjoy my current job.

If you don't mind me asking?
How much time would you spend betting during a standard day?

gatespeed - very valid point, but this brings me to another question lol :)

I bet on all three codes. Probably least on greyhounds.

What would be the best place to do form and in which format?

Online, newspaper, etc.

you need to watch replays... there is no point doing form from newspapers or online, it doesnt tell anything of what really happened in a race.

So, you've gotta have 'at least' foxtel and IQ as a starter. If u dont have these i think u are at a severe disadvantage

Varies a lot jez, if I want to cover all the tennis being played it could be very time consuming, some weeks I do nothing at all and others I do about 50 to 60 hours. That includes times like this afternoon where there was only one match on and I don't need to watch every point played.

Yeah I stick to online form and I utilise foxtel
couldnt imagine punting without it

one of the reasons i stay away from tennis is the frustration of not being able to trade IR without picking up the phone.... giving details.... giving more details.... then confirming all details within a 60 second time frame where the odds are continuously moving. but i must say, when australian federal law changes its tune, i'll definately be giving it a go. i take it you live in GB shiraz?

Try and get the best possible price.There are some amazing overs on BF but nearly all runners are a better price here than elsewhere.Consistently getting say 4.0 for winners that are 3.5 elsewhere makes a huge difference over time.Remember if you could get the biggest possible price for everything you backed you'd never have to do form,watch replays even know what a horse looks like to make a profit!

I live in the Illawarra budddy and yes it is frustrating having to phone up but most of the operators here in Australia know me now which helps. Also usually bet at the end of each set which allows more time. I used to travel to NZ for the bigger tournaments but don't bother any more.

i was even planning a move to NZ for that very reason.very frustrating.

Its a law that needs to be amended thats for sure!

I know I'd definetely be turning over a lot more in sports other than racing if I was able to bet in-play without having to phone thru

We're lucky we're able to bet in running on selected horse races.

I read this last month, looking forward to the productivity commissions report being released....................


Live betting is on the cards CAMERON NOAKES
....theage

STARING at a computer screen, watching the odds oscillating does not seem the ideal way to enjoy a ring-a-ding arm-wrestle between two colossuses of the game but bookmakers believe a sports-betting revolution is around the corner, and is coming in the form of ''live'' online punting.

"Live" or "in-the-run" betting over the internet is banned in Australia and bookmakers say the law is "archaic".

Australians can bet on live games using an antiquated telephone but many punters find this bothersome because it is time-consuming and the odds can change quickly, particularly in tennis.

Sportsbet.com.au spokesman Haydn Lane said: "The fact that we can legally accept an in-the-run bet over the phone but not on the internet is archaic and quite ridiculous."

The Federal Government is expected to come under pressure to change the law when the Productivity Commission releases a report on gambling next month.

In its draft report the commission recommended that Australian punters be allowed to enjoy the same privileges as their northern hemisphere counterparts.

And bookmakers say it is punters who will benefit because live betting, particularly in tennis and cricket, often allows punters to create their own Dutch book (a situation where you can back all outcomes and not lose).

Since Betfair pioneered the concept in the UK "in-play" odds have radically changed the way people approach sports-betting.

In Europe live betting accounts for a whopping 90 per cent of trading on cricket, tennis and soccer, according to Betfair's Jake Norton.

"Live, in-play betting is exciting and volatile, and it also

Jez... thanks for that info.

finally some news on the subject. i call the tab and bf operators regularly on the subject but they NEVER have any news. why not let members know about this article... at least. its called customer service.

Anyhow, lets hope the government keeps up with the times.Jez, so i take it this meeting is on soon?

The productivity commission is expected to deliver its report
to the government & the public in March.

There's actually a meeting of senior level executives from clubs pubs hotels and software suppliers in late March to discuss expected regulatory changes.

I would expect we will see change in the laws this year.

the meeting is over a week at Star City in Sydney

good1. the government doesn't know the impact their laws cause. forcing? me to live in NZ to bet IR is not good. i hate rugby!!!

Jez, i dont think there will be any major changes this year. Some of the recommendations in the report will be fairly radical & not something they wll rush into in an election year. Many will upset State Gov'ts & racing industry.

Pubs & clubs are particularly concerned with any changes to use of ATMs & the punters setting a limit on how much they can lose on pokies.

Yeah, will be bloody fantastic - it will be ABOUT TIME.

Great for sports involved, great for punters.

Bring us into line with the rest of the world.

Though - we should be thankful that we're not
slapped with the laws of the US. They are
incredibly restrictive on gambling.

Yeah, I was going to mention in that previous post.

The clubs are primarily interested in recommendations regarding
pokie machines.

I still believe there will be great pressure on the government
in the months following the productivity commissions report.

Your right though Kye, an election year may mean its early
next year before changes are implemented.

I'm confident of positive changes though.

Is there anything we can do to help this law get passed?... short term/long term?

remember you run out of money before you run out of races, be selective no such thing as last race another race tomorrow.

Nice one Hologon.Boom!

Email your local Federal MP.

I like that one hologon
brilliant :)

def be doing that. might be more effective if we collectively show our wave of support for IR betting at the appropriate time. i like hope. hope is good. :)

Nice thread Jez.

you mentioned the final report to gov for the Gambling Productivity Commision is March? Checking their website it's still:

Final report to Government - 26 February 2010

So not sure if it's been delayed?

Like you I'm almost strictly Betfair - and the tote option means I can get involved in first four/quad jackpots. I only need to top up my TAB account for a big 6 jackpot now and again.

I've probably turned myself into a 75% trader, 25% punter.
I use and love BetTrader evolution as my API...just awesome to be able to hedge at the click of a button.

And In-play just adds an extra dimension to my punting... I actually get excited about short priced favs as either dominant leaders or backmarkers...the things you can do! Actually they don't have to be short priced favs. Take that odds-on 2yo in Brisbane yesterday. I was happy to lay at 1.7 at the jump and just see what happened..it's just dynamite!

As most have mentioned, discipline is the key...don't get carried away, and keep consistent.

Hi Blackmarket....
cheers for your response...

Thats what I need to do, I think.

Move more into trading, particularily on my main
betting day on Saturday's - cut back on the punting.
And I need to invest in a decent API program.

Yeah, there are some monty opportunites that present in-play.

It certainly spices up trading........

I'm definetely going to give it a shot. Like I said in a previous post,
start to take advantage of betting on Betfair. :)

The most common factor i found in blokes who have shown a profit over many years on the punt was Most of them only bet on one type be it racing,trots or dogs.amds the most common habit they all had was the bigger the odds the greater the win IE if you would have a monkey on a 5/1 pot then have a monkey on the 25/1 pot.

good advice bobbygirl - am starting to agree with that and act that way

easier to do with a decent balance tho i guess - to have a good lash at a long price that is

good advice bobbygirl(wish i could change this F@#$#@n name now)

yeah Craig if only i had followed their advice when i did punt .once backed 6 from 7 at a midweek Canterbury and won a pittance because i fell into a long odds on in the 6th only cream i got was from the last winner . wasnt my caper hence the reason i only lay horses now and have a better strike rate than backing them albeit that wouldnt be hard to do.

Most punters are losers. If you do what most punters do you will lose. If you want to win you have to do something different.

For example, you have to love it when all the expert tipsters tip the same horse. It is bound to be unders. A few years ago I remember reading on the Horse Racing Forum that a punter made his money by laying whatever was on the front page of the Racing Post.

serious point for you aussie lads as i am moving there soon

how do you trade at all if you cant bet anything in running? or can you bet in running on the fone only? can you call betfairs offices down there to place an in running bet?

big-game-player
serious point for you aussie lads as i am moving there soon

how do you trade at all if you cant bet anything in running? or can you bet in running on the fone only? can you call betfairs offices down there to place an in running bet?

You can bet on SPORT in the run but current laws stipulate it cannot be over the internet. Instead we call the BF freecall number and the operator places the bet you want. You can bet in the run on horse racing at Metropolitan race meetings only.

TTT.

A thread from about 18 months ago, just for you MP.

I specialise in Aussie Rules and make 80% of all my profits there. If you spread yourself too thin you dilute your attention, your understanding and your profitability. Just my opinion.

I live in NZ and 95% of my bets are placed on NRL matches. In at least 5 or 6 of the games played per round I would bet during the game. I couldn't imagine being able to do that over the phone that would spoil a large part of my betting. Ryan

Congratulations on your first post, and welcome to the forum Ryan.

So, whatever happened to the productivity commission report and allowing in-play without calling?

One word: Xenophon

Being prepared to go against popular opinion is the secret of betting. For example, everyone thinks the Liberals are a shoe-in for next Federal Election. The value bet is clearly Labor.

And for those for whom the thought of Labor winning is completely unbearable, how about an "emotional insurance policy" bet. You put a few grand on Labor at the grossly inflated price that is currently on offer. If the Liberals win you're smiling because the Mad Monk is in the Lodge and if Labor wins you're smiling because you're rich.

By the way, Jez ... I charge a small fee for my advice.

Hedging against emotion isn't in a pro's MO, although I have to admit to doing it where the Saints are concerned. Usually, I bet against them because I know if they win I will be so happy I won't care about the loss.
The true secret to betting success is to find a way to totally eliminate all emotion from the exercise, including fear and especially greed. It's just about what is logical and makes sense. Being bloody minded just because someone is trying to prove you wrong will send you broke. I have watched many people do it on Betfair, year after year.
I just take what the market gives me. If it makes sense I do it, if it doesn't you won't see me there.