Move Bechers back down the straight

How do you move a brook?

Its in a drainage pipe nowadays (I think) so the brook itself isnt a factor anymore.
For me the National is special for these reasons : The distance, the large field, and the 3 main fences - Bechers, Chair and Canal Turn - take any of these away and you ruin the race. We should be looking to see what we can do to keep but adapt adapt these features to make it as safe for horse and rider as reasonably possible but being upfront about the fact that we cant ever rule out the risk of fatalities completely.

I agree that having a fence on a corner is creating many of thee deaths. As much as I love the National if moving Bechers (and possibly losing Canal Turn) save lives then its worth it

They do tend to try and cut the corner on the Canal Turn which causes bunching but take the 45 degree angle away and you take the uniqueness of the fence away. Maybe making the fence lower or in someway easier to jump on the outside to tempt some jockeys away from the inside might help. The Chair although the tallest fence doesnt seem to cause too many fallers.

Lord, I think your general approach to discussion, consultation and risk management is right. Some track realignments might help, though it's hard to see how the canal turn could be removed (as King suggests) without massive remodelling (probably also losing Valentines and possibly Foinavon). I'm not sure about the status of the brook at Bechers - there needs to be a fence there if the ground is at all boggy or it would be just as dangerous.

However, I've reluctantly concluded the National course should be scrapped. The race is so much more dangerous than others, and so much more high profile, the annual negative PR is a disaster and undermines the whole of jump racing, not just Aintree. There's been an average of 0.9 horse deaths per year in the National for the last 20 years which means we get the negative publicity most years. I agree with you that radical change to the race would destroy it anyway, but radical change is necessary and probably unavoidable. Hence, scrap it voluntarily - cut off the limb to save the patient.

Re the Chair, I wonder if that's because it's quite a long way in to the race, the field has thinned out and many of the dodgy jumpers/those that don't fancy it have already fallen/pulled up? What is interesting is that fence 3 is/was the biggest on the course but fence 4 had far more fallers - perhaps the jockeys relaxed after jumping fence 3, perhaps the horses lost confidence? But it appears the effects of the course do not always manifest themselves where we would think the danger lies. Even Synchronised fell at Bechers but injured himself several fences later as a loose horse.

All of these would help. Not saying that all should happen but these should be considered and looked at.

- Move the first fence forward or the start back so there is not such a great run to the first and reduce the speed over the first six fences
- Reduce runners to 25-30.
- Move forward a month, yes would be too close to Cheltenham but would mean softer going.
-  Make horses qualify in the pre Christmas Aintree meetings by only letting those that had completed the National fences run in the National.

The last probably the most controversial but hindsight is easy. We all knew Junior and Synchronised had jumping frailties and didn't know if there styles would cope with the fences. Had they qualified by jumping them once before then doubts that horses take to the fence disappear.

^Some good ideas there. The first two seem very sensible. The last is particuarly interesting, though it would mean they'd have to increase the number of qualifying races which could increase the number of injuries on the course but outside the National. There always has to be a first time the horse jumps these fences.

Yes some good thoughts there Billy - I dont agree with some but that sort of thinking has to happen or we'll be closed down. Just like the first fence if speed is a problem at either Bechers or the Canal Turn perhaps a fence at a distance from both which gives enough time after jumping to organise yourself but not to be going too fast would be a good idea.

Yes agree more qualifying races would be needed at the pre Christmas meetings and would probably create Aintree specialists but in smaller qualifying fields I think it would ready those horses for the National. It may reduce the quality of the fields as those after the Cheltenham prizes would probably steer clear.
I think reducing the size of the fences probably means that trainers feel the quirky jumpers may get around and encourage poorer jumpers than just limiting to the best.

Yes, I'm noty sure the size of the fences is the issue, but the speed they're going and the big fields.

I don't know how this could be done or whether it even has an effect, but starting in front of the stands really seems to get the horses revved up and could it be another contributory factor to the speed they set off at?

I don't know why but this year seemed more brutal than previous years, it won't have been but I summised that it was that the coverage was so up close you really got the feeling of the horses going hell for leather over these fences.

It breaks my heart a little every year, the fall out dominated by the fatalaties and the call to scrap. I feel like I'm ploughing a lone farrow trying to defend the sport to people who don't really know about horse racing but it's becoming increasingly difficult.

A constructive debate on the forum

My faith is restored.

Some good ideas there; how do we get them in front of the decision makers?

A constructive debate on the forum

My faith is restored.

Some good ideas there; how do we get them in front of the decision makers?

I think it's easy to blame the fences for the increased fatalaties in the National, after all, what's the return (for want of a better word) from the Becher Chase, Topham and Fox Hunters over the last 10 years?

There's lots of different contributory factors, but the number of runners and the speed they are running and jumping at for the first 4 fences have to be the biggest factor.

Regualar - on one of the other threads on this (on the AP forum I think) someone posted information showing that the fatalty rate per year per runner is similar in the Topham to the National (14 fatalities in 26 years compared with 18 in 20 for the National), but the Topham has many fewer runners.

Paris - check out the thread on the AP forum - also constructive there.

cheers stront.

Close analysis of the fatalities over the years proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that weight of numbers is not an issue. Since 1980's Only Duncreggan in 1983 could be argued, as a result of having no space to jump.

It's been mentioned on this thread, and elsewhere, that horses should meet a strict qualifying criteria, and have to show an aptitude for the fences. Sadly, this would be nothing more than a waste of time. People read too much into experience over the fences, and although some horses obviously take to it, it's no guarantee that they'll always be a safe conveyance. It's unlikely that Black Apalachi will be back, but if he did, he would be labelled an "Aintree Specialist", despite failing to get round on 3 out of 5 occasions he's tackled the fences.

Apologies for the length of this list, but hopefully it'll go some way to proving the above point. It doesn't include, Pulled Ups, Brought Downs, Carried Out, or Slipped Saddles.

Winners who've failed to get round on other attempts over the fences.
Gay Trip
Rubstic
Aldaniti
Corbiere
Hallo Dandy
West Tip
Little Polvier (twice)
Seagram
Party Politics
Royal Athlete
Rough Quest
Red Marauder
Bindaree (twice)
Hedgehunter
Silver Birch
Mon Mome


Placed horses since 1980 who've failed to get round on other attempts
Royal Stuart (twice)
Rough And Tumble
Three To One (FOUR times)
Spartan Missile
Royal Mail (twice)
Delmoss (twice)
Lastofthebrownies
Rinus
Brown Windsor
Romany King
Lauras Beau
Docklands Express
Moorcroft Boy
Camelot Knight
Superior Finish
Addington Boy
Blowing Wind
What's Up Boys
Lord Atterbury
Clan Royal
Royal Auclair (Three times)
Philson Run
McKelvey
My Will
State Of Play
Black Apalachi (Three times)

Winners of The Becher Chase, The Topham, & The Foxhunters, who've failed to complete on other attempts
Indian Tonic (Twice)
Into The Red
Young Hustler
Young Kenny
Ardent Scout
Vic Venturi
Hello Bud
Tiepolino
Glenrue
Won't be Gone Long
JJ Henry
Northern Starlight
Gower Slave
Clan Royal
Dunbrody Millar
Irish Raptor (twice)
Gwanako (Three times)
Eliogarty
Double Silk
Blue Cheek
Killeshin
Torduff Express
Forest Gunner (Twice)
Katarino
Scots Grey (twice)
Christy Beamish
Trust Fund
Cloudy Lane

It's often stated that horses have to be of a certain standard, here's a list of horses who have ran in The Gold Cup, who have failed to get round.

Bonanza Boy
Golden Freeze
The Fellow
Black Humour
Chatham
Master Oats
Challenger Du Luc
Banjo
Senor El Betrutti
Double Thriller
Escartefigue
The Last Fling
Rince Ri
Marlborough
Alexander Banquet (twice)
You're Agoodun
First Gold
Take The Stand (twice)
Ballycassidy (three times)
L'Ami
Monkerhostin
Tikram
Iznogoud
Idle Talk (twice)
My Will
Iron Man (three times)
Knowhere (twice)
Contraband
Ollie Magern
Madison Du Berlais
Calgary Bay
Tidal Bay
Weird Al
Synchronised

I think that's enough, without having to list horses who have won or went close in The Other Nationals, The Whitbread, The Hennessy, Racing Post Chase etc.

Change is needed, I'm a Grand National "nut", and I sometimes hate myself for it. It needs the powers that be, to really look at it closely, and actaully think about it, rather than just guess. Ignore the number of runners, ignore the obsession with getting a "classy" field. These aren't factors, and won't improve the safety one little bit.

Keep Bechers in all but name, level the damn thing out completely (can't believe I'm saying this, but enough is enough), get rid of The Topham & The Foxhunters (got away with it the last 2 years, but always a PR disaster waiting to happen), and alter the layout at Foinavaon, and The Canal Turn, the only point of the course where it could be argued that weight of numbers is an issue.

The things that give the National its magic are :
The number of runners.
The extreme distance.
The cavalry charge effect over that first straight line of fences.
The way the fences are made with the loose spruce on top which flies in all directions.
The spectacular falls.
The iconic fences : Bechers, The Chair, Canal Turn, Valentines, Foinavon.
The Melling Road.
The elbow.
The long run-in and the drama that it regularly brings.
The fact that the BBC always used three commenators, 'over to John Hanmer' etc.

Obviously if you get rid of all of that, you have no more Grand National. And if you get rid of half of it, you probably have no more Grand National. But how about if you just get rid of one item ? You still have plenty left, don't you ? I think Bechers should go. Just put in an ordinary fence instead.

Blimey some good research there and brings back some great names.

I think if horses have shown they can go round Aintree then you at least know you have horses that can do it. yes some will always fall second time of asking but if they have been round once before at least you know you have a field that can jump round there. I think some horses are put in with the the 'see if they take to it'  when perhaps they should have already shown they have.

The National got me into racing and I don't want to change it at all, but times and the mood has changed and feel that something needs to be done.

Some great stuff here. On qualifying criteria for the race it would seem very sensible to ask owners and trainers to prove their faith in the ability of their horse to be competitive at this extreme distance by getting it to win a 3 mile Chase at at least Class 3 level.
I'd trust some trainers to be 'clever' with their horses and run them at shorter distances in an attempt to bamboozle the handicapper but by no means all.
Should we really be risking unproven 2 to 2.5 milers tiring in the second circuit putting themselves and others in peril ?

Lordnoise - Amendments made after last years race now require that horses must finish 4th or better in a chase of at least 3 miles

The thing that could really help is change the Handicap many of the problems seem to have come about or increased since they BHA started messign around here.

Mae the race less attractive at the top end. makethe top weigth 12-7 again. If there were more no hopers like up until about the time of Earth Summits win then the number of causalties is likely to fall as the improvements have reduced injuries in the other two races where let's face it the horses are going faster

Interesting suggestion in the RP today to put a fence near the Melling Road near the start with the aim of slowing the runners down. That might also fit in with the OP's suggestion.

It's time the sport stood up for itself instead of pandering to the white elephant that the public aint happy.If the public aren't happy, how do you explain this years race having both it's highest ever viewing figures and betting turnover?.And all this coming just one year after the public supposedly weren't happy with last years national.IMO the call for change is being made by opportunists with a big stage and other agendas and not the general public.Changes were made for this years race year, lets give them a chance without having a knee jerk reaction after every national.

I'm in aggrenace with Rocky. The Daily Mail will promote the race on the front page Saturday morning and then lambast it on the Sunday.

Would moving the 5th slightly closer to Beechers have any effect, with Beechers being straightened and the course straightened on the landing side of Beechers and a left turn on the course being introduced before the Foinavon fence.  This would avoid the need for jockeys to try and go down the inside of Beechers to try and get an advantage.

Alternatively, would it be worth moving one of the first five fences to the other side  of the course, so that there are 5 fences on each side of the course, with Beechers becoming the 5th, followed by the Foinavon (6th), Canal Turn 7th, Valentines (8th), and still 12 fences prior to crossing the Melling Road back onto the main racecourse

If the start was just AFTER Becher's, the first fence would be the 'easy' Foinavon, followed by Canal and Valentine's meaning no real speed could be built up till after fence 3.

Trouble is you'd need to move the winning post down there too!  :(

Why keep changing the race to placate a noisy minority whose sole aim is actually the abolition of this race as step to outlawing jumps racing itself? Organise and face em down instead of cowering in front of them. There are far worse things going on regarding animal welfare than horses running around jumping obstacles.