jpmorgan unexpected 4 billion loss

If you can work out what counts as a profit and what counts as a loss in the banking world these days, then you're a genius.
It's all being fiddled, both ways imo.

Yeah, i think this whole announcement could be some sort of plot. They're so dishonest never know what they are upto.

You still don't understand what actually took place, and what the implications are, do you?

Good strategy though, let's file the whole thing under "plot" and be done with it. That way you don't have to burn any brain cells trying to figure it out.......if you had any to begin with.

is melly the london whale?
after going bankrupt through a series of disastrous short trades he talked his way into a job at JPM (they thought lightning couldn't strikes more than 10 times in the same place )

mellyburger claims to know jpmorgans positions and intentions now, why wasn't you telling the whole forum to short jpmorgue if this was the case, you're delusion, i believe banks like this are always plotting/working for their masters. You're a total clown mellyburger, if you're the genius you claim to be you could be giving us all winning trades everyday, yet i can't think of one winning trade you have posted.

I was right. You still don't understand what they announced and what the implications are. Neither does the halfwit, pseudo-intellectual from NZ. Because if all you think took place here is a rogue trader making some disastrous trades, then you read the headline and stopped there.........like always.

What an intriguing "plot"........LMFAO.

And so you don't think I'm just a heartless pr1ck, if you ask me politely, I'd be than happy to explain in layman's language what really did take place and the implications of the JPM announcement more than just the headline.....so you can better understand the "plot".

If you only speak clownland language however, then you're on your own....

I would be interested to hear your theory

we dont think your a heartless pri1k melly, we just know your a dumbshilt.


by all means enlighten us  what happened at JPM.

this ought to be good.

I continue to find it amazing that they let benny the clown alone with a computer for a couple of hours every day at the asylum.

melly can't comment, he's been sworn to secrecy.
JPM searches high and low on the internet and finally uncover the world's worst trader (on the betfair forums), offer him billions and leave him unsupervised, notifies the wider group to feed off this rube, billions get shifted into other accounts, it gets marked as a huge loss, insiders cover shorts and go long after 9 percent drop, jpm get the buyback cheaper, barney frank joins the circus with Volcker the elephant, dimon gets a treat, everybody wins.

oh, and melly got free lunches at the jpm cafeteria for a few weeks, sadly he was on commission though

So you want to know what happened too, polyahole? Not for you of course, for a friend.

What time is it where you live? Perhaps sleep deprivation aggravates you down under clowns' stupidity. It's a thought anyways.....

"So you want to know what happened too, polyahole?"

the last thing i want is another one of your brainless, rambling, fantasy stories.

So much for that sleep deprivation thought. Stupidity you're born with, there's nothing you can do about it. Being an ahole however is an acquired trait.

Get some sleep you halfwit, you'll feel better in the morning.

what does it all mean then ?

Could you explain it to me please Menelaus?

I assume this has something to do with shorting metals or more likely something to do with derivatives? Will we now see QE3 quicker than we thought to prop them up? Does this show the true state of banks and show they are just 1-2 little triggers from disaster?

Cheers

It was apparently an " economic hedge " gone wrong.
Now if you believe that then good for you.
Hint, prop trading illegal, hedging is legal.

Yet another blatant challenge to the regualtors by one of the "big boys".
Catch me if you can ?

Blue, send me a PM if you need more clarification. I resigned the position of trying to educate the lemmings and clowns on here, it didn't pay very well, so I'm trying to keep this to a minimum.

In a nutshell:

polyahole's rants about a trader nicknamed the "London whale" being the person responsible for engineering those loses are patently false and shows that he doesn't know or understand anything beyond reading the sensational headlines……..while fondling his iPad.

The majority of the losses came from CDSs in corporate bonds, betting against metals had nothing to do with it. Despite JPM's previous denials that they didn't do prop trading, and that their CIO unit was simply hedging and rebalancing the risks of their balance sheet, in reality the CIO was doing exactly that, betting and taking risks with the banks "own" money.  London based credit trader Bruno Iksil (the London whale) amassed an outsized position which hedge funds bet against. Bruno however was not calling the shots, he simply executed the trades. The shots were called by Ina Drew in NY. The CIO dealt in a wide variety of synthetic financial products, but not commodities. (I can give you more details in a PM if you need them).

What the implications?

1. Although JPMs financial position remains strong (as far as anyone dare say with M2M suspended) as they have been earning on average $4bn plus each quarter for the last two years and have $2.3 trillion of assets supported by $190bn of shareholder equity, this doesn't help their reputation and the SEC already announced they will be investigating. What else is taking place there that investors don't know about? How big is the real loss? Judging by JD's tone and choice of words yesterday we should expect the losses to increase.

2. What are the ramifications for TBTF banks in the future as far as Volcker rule regulations go? The argument that they can manage risk without the rules and regulations tightening regarding prop trading has gone out the window. How does this effect the TBTF banks stock prices going forward?

3. More near term the big question is, WHO ELSE? HSBC has moved in a virtual lock step with JPM. What about them? When MaGuire testified in front of the CFTC on silver price manipulation, both JPM and HSBC were called out. When JPM closed out the MF Global bankruptcy, everyone got shut out except one company. That company was allowed to rape and pillage what was left of MFG. That company was HSBC. I would say the odds of HSBC being involved in risky prop trades that could blow up in their face at any moment is more than fair. How will the market react once that realization sets in?

There will be a lot more unfolding on this story in the days and weeks to come. The only reason JPM made the announcement yesterday in a such a panic is because the information was leaked. Someone bought right before the close yesterday (before the announcement) almost 14,000 $41 puts at about 43 cents that would expire today. That trader made a sh1tload of money (about 6Xs the investment) on puts that were a virtual certainty to expire worthless.

Blue, send me a PM if you need more clarification

imagine PM'ing melly for "clarification"

you did'nt tell us anything thats not public knowledge there melly.

i am surprised however that you did'nt lay claim to being the buyer of the 14,000 puts.Aftertiming is your speciality.

J2- please post how the clarification went,I mean to say, melly's silver advice went so well for you.

melly stalling for a couple of days to give himself time to look up what happened on the internet.

IMAHO!!!

he will hope for developments over the weekend- then claim "I have inside knowledge"

what a tool.

The clowns from down under ********** each other off again.

I never claimed I have insider knowledge, all I said is that I understand what happened, and more importantly I understand the ramifications.

The theory of relativity is public knowledge but very few of the public understand it. Benny the clown wouldn't know the difference before CDX Series 9 and Star Trek 5, and I imagine the first thing polyahole did after reading my post was to google Ina Drew.

To call you clowns at this point is to flatter you.

Thanks Menelaus. I think any more detail and it would be over my head! That explanation was very good, thanks.

Mr Ben, you can keep using my silver buying to beat him if you want but I was buying silver long before I ever posted here. I actually had some more delivered yesterday.

Here's a nice quote for you from the President and CEO of Federal Reserve Dallas:

“Add together the unfunded liabilities from Medicare and Social Security, and it comes to $99.2 trillion over the infinite horizon”




Everything will be fine. Metal buyers are idiots.

Thanks Blue.

Nice quote. Something that went largely unnoticed in Fisher's statements yesterday is that he actually used the words "money printing" by the FED. For a member of the FED to use those words is unheard of.

They will print and print some more because they have no other choice. Anyone who still hasn't clued in about that is cannon fodder.

"and I imagine the first thing polyahole did after reading my post was to google Ina Drew"

you would melly, but then you imagine a lot of things, like your chateau, your porsche, your 6 figure salary, your MASSIVE (disastrous) trades...

J2- what I find incedible about you is this- I told you many months ago that silver was going nowhere and if it did go up it would'nt go up by much.

Since then its down 3 or 4 dollars an ounce.

Yet I did not receive a thank you.

but you thank melly.

Give me strength

polyahole, I won't even bother commenting on the "chateau" and "six figure salary" but it speaks volumes that to YOU owning a Porsche is something people "imagine", dream about so to speak.

If that was too deep for you, let me rephrase. Owing a Porsche is so out of reach for you, someone can ONLY imagine owning one. Sometimes it's not what people post on here that's the tell, it's what they don't post.

Remind me again, how many aapl shares do you own?

Menelaus is no doubt the breadhead of the forum.
There has to be one always.

"Remind me again, how many aapl shares do you own?"

why? do you need another loan? sorry, but i don't touch subprime.

No, I just thought that perhaps when it hits Katy's $960 this year you could afford to buy the front bumper.

would really like to help melly but i have no use for an old, used bumper. I'll check it out on your eBay account though.
where did you find it, i hope you haven't been out at night thieving again?

polyahole, your attempts at "clever" unfortunately fall way short of the mark. Why am I not surprised ?!?!

dont you get tired of making a fool of yourself melly?

we do

Mrben
13 May 12 02:22
Joined:
25 Oct 03
| Topic/replies: 5,144 | Blogger: Mrben's blog
J2- what I find incedible about you is this- I told you many months ago that silver was going nowhere and if it did go up it would'nt go up by much.

Since then its down 3 or 4 dollars an ounce.

Yet I did not receive a thank you.

but you thank melly.

Give me strengthCryCryCryCry
Rate reply:
| report




You also said gold would go under $1000 didn't you? Apple had 7 major corrections on the way up (maybe more since I read that article). Do you write off everything which has a correction? Silver will be above $50 an ounce in the medium term IMO.

I think you should look at it objectively. The silver chart is basically a textbook copy of your classic speculative bubble chart. I think we all know how that one ends up. It will take a good number of years to hit $50 if it actually does, is that really a good investment to be piling all your money into? you tell me.

come on J2.Silver now down in the 6-7 dollars range. You've lost 20% plus and had zero interest.
By holding physical you have no stop loss.

You are failing to embrace the basic premise of investing- buy low sell high, sell high- buy low.Rather you are holding on for the catalyst of some mythical potential event to  crystalize a huge profit.

If said event does not occur- where are you?

You claim that silver reaches 50$ is as irrelevant as it is absurd. You need silver to rise to at least equal the cost of holding.Newsflash-it has'nt.PLUS you need some kind of return premium for your risk.

Holding physical ( as recommended by investing superstar melly) is an abomination. Its all predicated on one single event coming to fruition.If so the payoff will be big- you think?.What is the chance of this event occurring?

  You are taking a risk of perhaps 50% with an event probability of less than 10% with a payoff of  lets guess at 50$ so 50% approx.

   An absurd equation by any measure.

Mix those numbers around however you like and the result is still rubbish.

Your only decent payoff comes with the mythical armagedon event.

Melly will tell you the event probability is 100%, if you believe that  you must be using utube videos as your research material.

The sequence of events that needs to occur to get to that point are many and involve many decisions by govts.All those decisions need to be in the same direction to get to said point.There is little if any chance that so many govt of different countries will  make those poor decisions concurrently.

  Get real.

Please answer this- last 3 weeks markets have gone down and down- silver and gold have gone down and down. If markets were to totally collapse under the melly assumptions- why would gold and silver rise?

Repeat after me- their may be a market collapse, but it wont go to zero.Gold and silver will follow the markets down but they wont go to zero.

   Stop  believing in this melly type nonsense, start listening to some others here and reap the rewards.

Mr Ben
Apart from your " professional" investing activities, do you perhaps breed pit bulls as a side occupation.
You sure know how to feed them.
I can hear Menelaus' chains rattling already.
Beware the onslaught.
Btw an awful lot of what you have just said is very commensensical and is probably not too far from how it is all likely to unfold in due course.
A slow, complex political resolution of the problems, leading to further upward growth in the world economies.
The theoreticians like Menelaus will once again be left scratching their heads as to how the crisis was overcome and, more to the point, why it will inevitably re-occur in the future in yet another " new " manifestation.

Dear benny the clown

Your are an idiot

Best regards

Reality


P.S it would be a complete waste of time trying to dissect and correct that pile of sh1t you posted, it would only make it stink worse.

Mr Ben...nothing would make me happier than gold and silver being pointless. I could sell it off to some other 'mug' and do something else; but I really need some questions answered. Please try and do it with facts and reasoning that I may have missed rather than calling me a mug and adding in lots of smilies.

I'll do this in bullet points and i'll probably forget three quarters of the stuff I need to post so i'll probabaly add more as time goes on.

1) What are the chances of 'Helicopter Ben' allowing deflation to take place? Have you read his work on the great depression or heard him speak? He will not allow deflation.

2) Assuming there is a depression coming (and if you look at the figures there has to be really) do you think that it will be a deflationary depression or will governments do what they have done every time in history (apart from the great depression where hands were tied by a gold standard) and print the money needed? QE3 is coming soon. Can we forever go on with bailouts, QE and money printing?

3) 46.2m Americans were on food stamps as of October 2011. I believe that number has increased (I will look for a source when this is posted). How long can this go on?

4) America has $92tn in unfunded liabilities for medicare, medicaid and social security. Where is this money coming from? When the baby boomers begin retiring in 2016 where is this money going to come from?

5) When there is overwhelming evidence that silver and gold are being manipulated downwards to keep the faith in debt backed currencies why aren't you questioning WHY they need to do this? You say gold and silver are going down but any of the big players can come in and short gold and silver to a massive degree which really has a big impact on the spot price. One of the people who testified said that the metals are trades in the multiples of 100 of the underlying physical. Does this mean the true price of silver is spot x 10? I'm sure it wouldn't actually work out like that but citing the paper price as basis for slating the physical is ridiculous.

6) No fiat currency has ever survived. Why will this one be any different. America had the continental and the confederate dollar which both went to zero. Fiat currencies don't work.

7) China are buying lots of gold and silver. As are central banks. Why do you think this is?

I have to go out now but this is a nice start. At the end of the day I believe what i'm doing is right. I appreciate your concern but I have to make my own mistakes and learn the hard way if i'm wrong.

J2
Isn't the basic premise for buying gold today that there is going to be a return to the gold standard and as a result there will be an extremely high demand from all central govts to get the required gold to back their paper currencies, at whatevere ratio is set ?
But what if that return doesn't eventuate ?
Say that a basket of currencies is set up to act as the world's reserve currency ?
This is apparently being very intensely studied by the World bank, the UN et al.
The powers that be do not seem to want to return to the old days of an inflexible gold standard system of financing.
Without the gold standard being reintroduced, the demand for gold will once again quieten down and the price will go nowhere as it did for the past 15-20 years or so.
Now I don't KNOW what is going to happen, but I for sure don't think that gold is the certain bet that some pundits seem to be suggesting it is.

Btw I have to admit that I do wish that I had as apparently clever and far seeing as Menelaus has been to stock up on the stuff back when it was first in the sub 400 dollar range.
Wouldn't that have been delicious.
But alas it would seem my crystal ball wasn't working too well when it mattered.

Blue, what part of "this mug is an idiot" don't you understand?

Why are you asking this fool.....TO THINK????

He's an idiot, a retard, a halfwit, a bag of hot air totally incapable of critical (or any other kind) thinking.

How many times does this clown have to make himself the laughing stock of this forum with his daily horrid, often conflicting, calls on here, his lies, his delusions and his massive ignorance and his drivel until you chaps stop listening?

Move on blue, nothing to see here....but a POS trying to annoy.

J2- as requested, I will address your post.

1.work this out J2- there has been QE1 and QE 2  ontop of other measures.There was no hyperinflation>Now YOU are talking deflation????????
I thought money printing led to hyperinflation?

  Why has this not happened already?

2.your assumptions are so badly flawed.There is no dpression coming. By default the rest of the argument fails.

3.Totally irrelevant.These losers have been on food stamps for years, why  will they suddenly influence anything?

4. whats the difference between 92 trillion and 80 trillion. 120 trillion? If this was going to bowl the economy over it would have already done so.

5. I cant address this, is sooo utube. Gold and silver are overpriced, not underpriced.No such  downward manipulation exists.

6.Because it is not a fiat currency.

7. Do you have a pipeline to the chinese govt? How do you know they are buying gold and silver? Because you were told so?

  If this is the case why has the price of both dropped? Even if china  is buying- whats the relevance?
  China bought a mountain of copper of the last few years.Copper down 2000 a tonne last 12 mths.I fail to see what  this has to do with anything?

  J2 -  stop gobbling up what is common knowledge with common conclusions.Learn to read between the lines.
  There are many potential reasons and conclusions to any given financial situation.Until you accept that and learn what too do with it, you will remain living with you mother.

   Singular conclusions rough housed by the real world rarely work out.

rather than trying to be " right" learn how to make a profit.

The only thing badly flawed on here is that they allow you to post this sh1t.