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Masters Blazing
do you think its harsh that it goes up 13lbs OR AW because it won 2 soft ground turf
never won AW or run on it since rated 59 now on 72
....
do you think its harsh that it goes up 13lbs OR AW because it won 2 soft ground turf
never won AW or run on it since rated 59 now on 72
....
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Hi Delta - Sorry did not see this earlier - due to being involved with York et al.
I have had a look - and got some opinions/ideas - so will post again when things quieten down a little.
I have had a look - and got some opinions/ideas - so will post again when things quieten down a little.
AARRGHH -
I have just typed up around 8 paragraphs ...
Caught a key on the Keyboard - and LOST the LOT.
----------------------------
On a par with my changing a Stake on a LAY, yesterday evening, from a not meant £15 to £50 ...... but missed deleting the 1 - but inserted the new 5 ....
- and eded up Laying for £515 instead of £50 ..... and it was then was always Lower 'In running' - and, of course - IT WON.
I have just typed up around 8 paragraphs ...
Caught a key on the Keyboard - and LOST the LOT.
----------------------------
On a par with my changing a Stake on a LAY, yesterday evening, from a not meant £15 to £50 ...... but missed deleting the 1 - but inserted the new 5 ....
- and eded up Laying for £515 instead of £50 ..... and it was then was always Lower 'In running' - and, of course - IT WON.
That must have hurt, hope it wasn't too big a price! Could have been worse though could have put the 0 on the end! Bad luck mate.
Hi Delta.
Finally found the will to get around to this again, after the events posted above.
MASTERS BLAZING is an interesting example.
When the All-Weather started horses had an All-Weather rating and a Turf Rating - as they do now - but performances on one kind of surface did not affect their Rating on the opposite surface.
Eventually, though, as there became more All-Weather courses - and then a LOT more All-Weather racing - it became apparent that many horses were swapping surfaces, and younger horses improving with racing - but not necessarily for a particular surface - were being left with a much lower rating for the surface upon which they LAST raced BEFORE said improvement.
An apparent 'Rule of thumb' was thereby brought in, whereby horses were raised roughly by half as much of the improvement on the opposite surface, than they had been raised by on the surface upon which they HAD shown improvement.
Similarly - but many years later - such as 'Rule of thumb' was also instigated for the Hurdle Ratings of horses who had improved by going Chasing - thus making their task if/when returned to Hurdles to be NOT as advantageous as it could have been before such adjustments were instigated.
MASTERS BLAZING
---------------
Won at Warwick on his 9th outing - BUT, that outing was his FIRST race on TURF.
So, consequently, he had to/was set to race at Warwick off his ALL-WEATHER Rating - which had dropped from 59 to 58 - having been beaten just over 2 lengths off 59 on his previous outing, and by nearly 3 lengths on his previous outing to that off 60.
Nothing wrong with that at all - everything fitting in neatly.
However, MASTERS BLAZING obviously appreciated the Soft TURF surface that he first encountered in the Warwick race - as he won by an 7 lengths.
Raised by ONLY a rather 'generous' 8lb for that 7 length success - he then went on to finish 4th, beaten a length and a half, off his new mark of 66.
MASTERS BLAZING was, consequently, left on that mark of 66 for his next race - again back at Nottingham - but this time back over the ONE MILE at which he won at Warwick.
Although that 4th placing at Nottingham looked spot on from a Ratings/Handicapping perspective - a subsequent success back at Nottingham off the same 66, BUT over One Mile, may show that the horse was not best suited by the Mile and a Quarter that it ran 4th off - Both it's Sire and Dam's Sire having a Stamina Index of ONE MILE.
Masters Blazing won at Nottingham, over One Mile, on May 12th off 66, and by 4 and a half lengths - resulting in a rise to his present 77.
To address your question re: his All-Weather rating being consequently raised from 59 to 72.
An 'arbitrary' raise of a 'Rule of thumb' around a half - Would have resulted in MASTERS BLAZING being raised from his latest ALL-WEATHER run Rating of 59 to 68 - that being halfway between the 'old' 59 and new TURF of 77.
However, it looks like the Handicapper, on the other hand, has landed upon 72 - by that being 'halfway between the 66 it was raised to for the Warwick (Turf) win, and the 77 now allotted for it's latest(Turf) success.
The race in which MASTERS BLAZING finished 3rd in - On the ALL-WEATHER at Kempton - prior to winning at Warwick is interesting.
The winner Beauchamp Castle - off 59 - has since finished 2nd off 64 and 3rd, beaten just 2 lengths, off 68 - and is now tasked with running off 70.
MASTERS BLAZING ran off just 60 in that race - and a 'comparable' race rise would put MASTERS BLAZING on 65.
Somewhat coincidently, MASTERS BLAZING has run on the ALL-WEATHER again since it's latest win at Nottingham, a win which resulted in it being raised to 77 TURF.
It 'ran off' 68 in it's latest race - that being an ALL_WEATHER race - carrying a 6lb penalty for the Nottingham win - added to a re-assessed 'halfway house'
ALL-WEATHER rating of 62 (that being [b]'halfway' between the wins at Warwick off 58 and Nottingham off 66).
Although finishing 6th on that latest Kempton ALL-WEATHER race - MASTERS BLAZING actually ran to a rating of around 64/65..... so, as you say/ask - the new ALL-WEATHER rating of 72.....
Finally found the will to get around to this again, after the events posted above.
MASTERS BLAZING is an interesting example.
When the All-Weather started horses had an All-Weather rating and a Turf Rating - as they do now - but performances on one kind of surface did not affect their Rating on the opposite surface.
Eventually, though, as there became more All-Weather courses - and then a LOT more All-Weather racing - it became apparent that many horses were swapping surfaces, and younger horses improving with racing - but not necessarily for a particular surface - were being left with a much lower rating for the surface upon which they LAST raced BEFORE said improvement.
An apparent 'Rule of thumb' was thereby brought in, whereby horses were raised roughly by half as much of the improvement on the opposite surface, than they had been raised by on the surface upon which they HAD shown improvement.
Similarly - but many years later - such as 'Rule of thumb' was also instigated for the Hurdle Ratings of horses who had improved by going Chasing - thus making their task if/when returned to Hurdles to be NOT as advantageous as it could have been before such adjustments were instigated.
MASTERS BLAZING
---------------
Won at Warwick on his 9th outing - BUT, that outing was his FIRST race on TURF.
So, consequently, he had to/was set to race at Warwick off his ALL-WEATHER Rating - which had dropped from 59 to 58 - having been beaten just over 2 lengths off 59 on his previous outing, and by nearly 3 lengths on his previous outing to that off 60.
Nothing wrong with that at all - everything fitting in neatly.
However, MASTERS BLAZING obviously appreciated the Soft TURF surface that he first encountered in the Warwick race - as he won by an 7 lengths.
Raised by ONLY a rather 'generous' 8lb for that 7 length success - he then went on to finish 4th, beaten a length and a half, off his new mark of 66.
MASTERS BLAZING was, consequently, left on that mark of 66 for his next race - again back at Nottingham - but this time back over the ONE MILE at which he won at Warwick.
Although that 4th placing at Nottingham looked spot on from a Ratings/Handicapping perspective - a subsequent success back at Nottingham off the same 66, BUT over One Mile, may show that the horse was not best suited by the Mile and a Quarter that it ran 4th off - Both it's Sire and Dam's Sire having a Stamina Index of ONE MILE.
Masters Blazing won at Nottingham, over One Mile, on May 12th off 66, and by 4 and a half lengths - resulting in a rise to his present 77.
To address your question re: his All-Weather rating being consequently raised from 59 to 72.
An 'arbitrary' raise of a 'Rule of thumb' around a half - Would have resulted in MASTERS BLAZING being raised from his latest ALL-WEATHER run Rating of 59 to 68 - that being halfway between the 'old' 59 and new TURF of 77.
However, it looks like the Handicapper, on the other hand, has landed upon 72 - by that being 'halfway between the 66 it was raised to for the Warwick (Turf) win, and the 77 now allotted for it's latest(Turf) success.
The race in which MASTERS BLAZING finished 3rd in - On the ALL-WEATHER at Kempton - prior to winning at Warwick is interesting.
The winner Beauchamp Castle - off 59 - has since finished 2nd off 64 and 3rd, beaten just 2 lengths, off 68 - and is now tasked with running off 70.
MASTERS BLAZING ran off just 60 in that race - and a 'comparable' race rise would put MASTERS BLAZING on 65.
Somewhat coincidently, MASTERS BLAZING has run on the ALL-WEATHER again since it's latest win at Nottingham, a win which resulted in it being raised to 77 TURF.
It 'ran off' 68 in it's latest race - that being an ALL_WEATHER race - carrying a 6lb penalty for the Nottingham win - added to a re-assessed 'halfway house'
ALL-WEATHER rating of 62 (that being [b]'halfway' between the wins at Warwick off 58 and Nottingham off 66). Although finishing 6th on that latest Kempton ALL-WEATHER race - MASTERS BLAZING actually ran to a rating of around 64/65..... so, as you say/ask - the new ALL-WEATHER rating of 72.....
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