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GT
28 Jun 11 19:17
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Date Joined: 08 Nov 03
| Topic/replies: 11,935 | Blogger: GT's blog
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Gary Bardwell
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Pause Switch to Standard View ***Top 100 Lightweight flat jockeys...
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Report TambourineMan. June 29, 2011 12:32 PM BST
Others coming back to me....

Keith Temple Nidd
Brig Robson
LC Parkes
Brian Henry
Dennis Buckle
Stan Millbanks
HJ Greenaway
Norman Stirk
Tommy Sturrock
R. Fawdon
Dennis Letherby
J.Holden
R.Dicey
Report snitram June 29, 2011 1:33 PM BST
Kenny Glover
Report snitram June 29, 2011 1:35 PM BST
David Coates
Willie McCaskill
R.j.Ferguson
Report TambourineMan. June 29, 2011 1:52 PM BST
Snitram
I never included Ken Glover because I thought he'd be long forgotten...I remember I backed him on
ComealiveGrey when it won at 33/1 I think..I followed him after that but his winners were rare.
Report snitram June 29, 2011 1:58 PM BST
TM, he used to ride for Eddie Doyle at Wetherby and Tommy Shedden,i think he came from Leeds. I also remember Alan Horrocks used to ride for Ernie Davey
Report TambourineMan. June 29, 2011 2:05 PM BST
SN
Yes I remember those guys ...Alan was good for a long one now and again....I remember Ken getting a few rides for Avril Vasey who was a character.
Would love to spend an evening in a Malton pub (or similar) and share the craic with these old riders.
Report snitram June 29, 2011 2:36 PM BST
I knew Alan well when he started riding for Deryck Bastiman, i went to Edinburgh in the early 70s and he was riding one for Arthur Thomas called ombre solaire i think and he told me to back it, it won.It was a good race to win in them days, he drove cliff parkes up there in cliffes car and had a bump on the way back and it cost him all his share of the prize money to repair the car.
Report kabcast June 29, 2011 8:59 PM BST
Slightly off topic,but what abour second jockeys in big stables,used to ride second strings in maidens,or at the gaffs up north,Steve Raymont for Jeremy Tree was one.
Report salmon spray June 29, 2011 9:01 PM BST
Kimberley was it for Hindley ?
Report acey deucy June 29, 2011 9:05 PM BST
And Neil Crowther.
Report kabcast June 29, 2011 9:06 PM BST
Think youre correct salmon,what about B.Proctor for W.Hern.
Report seaside dreamer June 29, 2011 9:25 PM BST
darren moffatt
Report snitram June 30, 2011 11:24 AM BST
P."Sparrow" Povall, i think he rode for Avril Vasey, i may be wrong with the name, also another young kid called M.Bray he was apprenticed to Tommy Shedden at Wetherby, rode a double at Beverley once and he had to lead a horse up in the last.
Report dambuster June 30, 2011 1:26 PM BST
Sean Salmon
Ray Still
George Dickie
Frank Morby
Report Mister E June 30, 2011 1:32 PM BST
George Dickie is a good one.
Apprenticed to Ron Smyth.
Wonder what happened?
Nat Newman (lee's father ) was there about the same time.
Report TambourineMan. June 30, 2011 1:58 PM BST
Its amazing that Dicey.Still Povall et.al. were riding at around 6st 9lbs.



Philip Povall was a lightweight jockey in the 1950s and early 1960s, the leading apprentice in the north who nearly won the Ebor.

Indentured to Percy Vasey at Wetherby, he enjoyed his best season in 1953, when his 30 wins made him the leading apprentice in the north and placed him fourth in the national apprentices' table, behind Joe Mercer Among the youngsters who finished below him were Edward Hide, Geoff Lewis and Wally Swinburn snr.
Report whitmarsh June 30, 2011 2:48 PM BST
Snitram and TM,
    Sparrow Povall was the smallest jockey I can remember.
Report Augustine June 30, 2011 8:46 PM BST
Bobby Elliott.
Report Trisons_Star June 30, 2011 8:47 PM BST
lyndsay Charnock
Report dambuster June 30, 2011 8:52 PM BST
H.Ballantine
C.Rodrigues
Report snitram June 30, 2011 8:53 PM BST
Whit can u remember Ronnie Wimbush? if u remember Poval?
Report no-won-sun June 30, 2011 11:02 PM BST
Willie Snaith
Geoff Oldroyd
Dennis Ryan
Report onlooker June 30, 2011 11:08 PM BST
M L 'Taffy' Thomas
Report sandysboy June 30, 2011 11:10 PM BST
Don Morris also D.W.Morris
Report salmon spray June 30, 2011 11:50 PM BST
Don Morris was 2nd jockey to Elsey I think and was killed in a car crash. As was a guy called Haynes who rode for Sam Armstrong when Piggott wasn`t available.
Report TambourineMan. July 1, 2011 12:26 AM BST
Good thread plaudits to all.
Sinitram
I have a 1956 Form
Sparrow had a lot of rides that year...probably highlighted by a double at Thirsk
on Sep.29 Whinsway for John Weymes @25/1 and Salopian for J Ward @ 9/4.

R Wimbush had a few rides unplaced that year but I don't know anything else about him.
I'd forgotten that Josh Gifford and Jimmy Uttley (Persian War) had a lot of good winners on the Flat.
I also saw Kenny Glover was riding in apprentice races back then...took him a while
to lose his claim I guess.
Wish there was more info. out there on these old jocks who we grew attached to.
I know Eric Apter is on Facebook and did reply to me a while back.
Please post if you have any info.especially on the old guys
Report glentoby July 1, 2011 12:28 AM BST
Allan Mackay a shocking omission unless I missed a post.None better for hooking one.Laugh[;)]
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 12:32 AM BST
Uttley rode a lot of Staff Ingham`s on the flat. He could certainly do 9-0.
Wimbush must have still been around in 64ish cos I vaguely remember him.
Talking of Uttley who was the other guy who only rode over hurdles,not fences,around that time ? Dave Dennis is close I think but maybe not quite right.
Report glentoby July 1, 2011 12:38 AM BST
Anyone remember Chris Leonard?
Report TambourineMan. July 1, 2011 12:54 AM BST
Yes Salmon
Jimmy never would ride over fences but I overlooked that cos' I loved Persian so much...plus he was born in Nelson close to my childhood home.
Too bad the sons don't keep up their Fathers training record ..ala Turnell...Fairhurst Weymes Wainwright
Berry...I really think they do their best but their dedication is compromised by the world today.
Report Mister E July 1, 2011 10:53 AM BST
Salmon ,

Gerry Griffin.

Before Jimmy in Epsom we had Johnny Gilbert and Staff Ingham himself who were both hurdles only.

Harry Sprague was hurdles only , but then he won the Whitbread!!

Chris Dwyer rode a few over hurdles including a winner for Staff.




glentoby,

Yes I remember Chris Leonard. He was with capt. Ryan Price, and then Pat Haslam. I did not know him, but those who did remember him affectionately.
Report dambuster July 1, 2011 11:22 AM BST
I was in Bath last year and got speaking to a lovely old couple outside the Roman baths,the woman told me that her Brother-in-law was Jimmy Etherington and that her brother use to be a jockey and his name is Lionel Brown, anyone remember him..
Report ged July 1, 2011 11:36 AM BST
They both used to ride for the Easterbys. I remember Lionel Brown riding Lady Zena for Mick. I think Jimmy rode Sweet Story, a really good northern handicapper around the same time as Farm Walk and Move Off.

Didn't Gerry Griffin ride for WA? I think I remember him riding Camaguey, a useful hurdler who was around at the same time as either Supermaster or Interview III.
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 11:44 AM BST
I certainly remember Johnny Gilbert and it may have been him I was thinking of,but how I managed to think of him as David Dennis is beyond me.
Back to lightweight jockeys. David East for some years got a lot of rides from an owner-trainer called John Meacock. Meacock was an eccentric,who gave all his horses Persian names,and they were nearly all complete rubbish. East could be relied on to do 7-0,which Mea**** horses almost invariably got in h`caps. East must have picked up quite a lot in riding fees from him over the years,but not much in the way of winning percentages.
Report ykickamoocow July 1, 2011 11:48 AM BST
sammy millbanks:-))
Report ykickamoocow July 1, 2011 11:58 AM BST
Sammy Millbanks, Ray Reader, David East, L C Parkes and Norman McIntosh. They could all do 7st 7lbs....they were much in demand when a gamble was layed out from the likes of ron smyth,herbert blagrave and georgie boyd...horses used to carry 6st 7lbs or less  in big hcap's after the war..most notably in the november handicap..does days long gone..the winner in 1947 carried 6st 3lbs...now thats a lightweight.....
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 12:01 PM BST
Of course apprentices were younger. Wasn`t Lester 12 when he rode his first winner ?
Report kohaku July 1, 2011 12:24 PM BST
David Dineley
Report no-won-sun July 1, 2011 12:35 PM BST
Salmon
I think one of Mea**** was a horse called Vakil-ul-Mulk I may be far of the mark here but I think it ran in the Derby about 500/1.
Another unforgivable ommission: Joe Sime also Bill Rickaby and Mark Birch surely comes into the list.
Report no-won-sun July 1, 2011 12:36 PM BST
Dont know what's happenning here the trainers name was john Meacock.
Report TiptheOdds July 1, 2011 12:37 PM BST
Has John Lowe been mentioned yet?

Willie Carson would be the best though.
Report dambuster July 1, 2011 12:44 PM BST
Paul Tulk was another old name..Also, Didn't Dennis Mckay ride the Lincoln winner 2 years on the trot in the 70s, he came from Stratford in East London,i think he went in to become an estate agent after he retired, don't know what hes up to now..
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 12:59 PM BST
Yep. I think Vakil-ul-Mulk was Meac ock`s best horse and he did indeed run in the Derby. I think even Meacock managed to win a couple of races with him on the flat then sold him to go jumping with a decent trainer ( might have been George Vergette ) and he won a few over hurdles.
Report TambourineMan. July 1, 2011 2:37 PM BST
Another bit on Sparrow.

Povall was nicknamed 'Sparrow' because of his size, as he was one of a now-extinct breed, an ultra-lightweight jockey who specialised in handicaps. He could ride at less than 7st with ease, and gained his biggest win on Faint Hope in the Nottingham Stewards Cup in 1960.

The best horse he rode was Water Wings, a filly trained by Charles Elsey for Jim Joel. The partnership won the Ebor Trial Handicap by 12 lengths at Redcar in August 1959, and came second in the Ebor 12 days later. Water Wings (7st) might well have won had she not been badly crossed at the start (no stalls in those days) and relegated to last place, many lengths adrift. She made steady progress to lead over three furlongs out, but could not repel Primera (9st) and Piggott, and wa beaten a length and a half.

The demand for Povall's services declined as minimum weights rose, especially in handicaps, and he scored the last of his 134 wins in Britain in 1964. Other lightweights of that era included Micky Greening, Ray Reader, Jock Carson, Norman McIntosh, Derek Morris, Cliff Parkes, Walter Bentley and Tommy Carter.
Report blackpood July 1, 2011 2:57 PM BST
I remember backing Norman McIntosh when winning the first running of the Magnet Cup (now John Smiths Cup)on Fougalle  for Rufus Beasley at York in 1960. Hardly backed a winner since Laugh
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 3:20 PM BST
Jock Carson was A Carson.Don`t know what his real first name was. By the time I became a follower in 1963 Bentley,Morris and Carter ( I think ) were not usually able to do 7-0. They tended to ride at 7-3 or 7-4. Brian Lee and Des Cullen were others who were riding about that weight by then. Doug Smith,ex-champ and still a top jockey though in the twilight of his career could still do 7-8. Piggott`s normal minimum was 8-5 and a lot thought that hampered his career somewhat.
Report blackpood July 1, 2011 4:14 PM BST
8-5 did hamper his career somewhat. Nine Derby winners, among his Thirty English Classic wins. Five Irish Derbys, Three Arcs. etc etc etc, Weight was really a problem.Mischief
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 4:18 PM BST
I didn`t say I agreed with them.
And in 1963 he had nothing like that tally.
Report ged July 1, 2011 4:21 PM BST
His weight was a problem, but he controlled it. It probably stopped him winning the jockeys title a couple of times because of horses he couldn't ride, and winners he had to give up to others who could. He never rode the winner of either the Lincoln or the Cambridgeshire, and he probably would have done if he could have ridden lighter. Didn't affect him riding the classics, of course, but a man like him probably didn't like missing out on any decent winner.
Report TambourineMan. July 1, 2011 4:21 PM BST
Vaguely remember him riding a horse for Richmond Sturdy (think it was called October) putting up nearly a stone overweight ...still won easy.
Report blackpood July 1, 2011 4:22 PM BST
Sorry Salmon, I didnt say you did agree with them. But he had ridden several classic winners by then. Most jocks never ride one.
Report ged July 1, 2011 4:24 PM BST
I think Sturdy also trained January, and at least one other 'month', and a few Pirates. (and Tintagel II?)
Report Mister E July 1, 2011 4:27 PM BST
Charlie Smirke was another example struggled to do 8-6 which was massive in those days, could never be champion because Gordon could do 7-6.
But Charlie notched up the Classic wins.

Charlie rode over hurdles for a while, after he came back from the 39-45 war he weighed 10 stone.
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 4:30 PM BST
Of the regular jockeys there were only one or two as heavy,and apart from Jimmy lindley,they were towards the end of their careers. Nobody said it in those days of course but I think some media types were aware of the parallels with Fred Archer. His nickname " the longfellow " didn`t help. Of course the irony is these days at 5ft 7" he would hardly be above average height for a flat jockey and Baker would tower over him.
Report seaside dreamer July 1, 2011 4:46 PM BST
muis roberts done 7.11 at lingfield one saturday i remember and the much missed steve:samson wood.
Report dunlaying July 1, 2011 5:44 PM BST
I cant remember whether Ron Hutchinson was a lightweight or not,Ged will know.
Meacock,I remember him and his persian named horses,the ul-mulks, vakil and kavar then he had another ,slower,if possible,Quebir Ku.
I think he owned and trained them.Whenever I think I have had bad luck my thoughts turn to Mr Meacock.
Colours were gold star on black?
Report whitmarsh July 1, 2011 5:46 PM BST
Salmon Spray,Are you getting David Dennis getting mixed up with the old hurdles jockey Dennis Dillon? Dennis Dillon was also a regular at Stamford Bridge dogs.
Report ged July 1, 2011 5:49 PM BST
I think they were red and yellow. Qalibashi was one of his more successful, won twice in a week at Brighton, including one of the feature races. I remember being at Brighton one day when he had a runner, called Ferdowsi - it came galumphing up the straight, trying its best, but about a furlong behind everything else.
Report ged July 1, 2011 5:50 PM BST
..at least, those were the colours on Ferdowsi, I think. Though maybe that was a rare one he trained for someone else.
Report dunlaying July 1, 2011 5:52 PM BST
Amazing to think he actually won races with any of them.
Report whitmarsh July 1, 2011 5:56 PM BST
John Meacock was an estate agent ,he owned and trained them as a hobby.Any one remember Peter Poston?
Report dunlaying July 1, 2011 5:57 PM BST
The name rings a bell.
Report TambourineMan. July 1, 2011 6:00 PM BST
dun...Hutchy could do 7st.10lbs

John Meacock never won more than five races in a season, but made a bigger impact than most trainers, partly because his horses were instantly identifiable by their Persian names, and partly because he was also a soldier and poet.

He trained at Ropley, near Alresford in Hampshire, between 1961 and 1970, and had a string of up to 30 horses, most of which he owned himself.

None was of great distinction, though he did run the best of them, Vakil-ul-Mulk, in the 1963 Derby. The 100-1 maiden made no show, but became a useful staying handicapperhand·i·cap·per 
n. Sports & Games
1. One who assigns handicaps.

2. One who predicts the winners in a horserace, especially one who publishes such predictions as a guide for bettors.

Noun 1.
..... Click the link for more information. who also won over hurdles.

Ian Carnaby, who lived near his stables, says: "Meacock came from a well-to-do family and had served as an army officer stationed in the Gulf. He became an expert on Persian culture, which is why he named his horses after Persian heroes, monuments and historical figures.

"He was very eccentric and people regarded him as a joke, though in fact he was quite shrewd at getting one ready, and he used to go for a touch on Bank Holidays."

Meacock disappeared from the Turf in 1970.He died in 1999.
Report dunlaying July 1, 2011 6:08 PM BST
Thanks TM .
Has anybody mentioned Alan Bond?
Was there a Des Cracknell or Dave Cracknell?
Report TambourineMan. July 1, 2011 6:20 PM BST
There was Eddie Cracknell...he was an Aussie who road up North....rode a lot os winners.

Here is a link to a piece by Clement Freud on a trainer that was a ticket to the workhouse.but I still liked to follow him.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sludgeulper/3392191141/

You can enlarge the print with a right clik.
Report Mister E July 1, 2011 6:26 PM BST
thanks Whitmarsh;
Dennis Dillon was another Epsom based hurdles only jockey.

His brother Mick was a good friend and a great raconteur; rode a few winners himself and finished up as an actor and stuntman. Both gone now.
Report whitmarsh July 1, 2011 6:33 PM BST
Mr.E,did Mick Dillon ever work as a stalls handler.
Report salmon spray July 1, 2011 6:50 PM BST
Yes. Thanks those who have mentioned Dennis Dillon. It was indeed he I was thinking of.
Report TambourineMan. July 4, 2011 3:07 PM BST
Sinitram
Did you see that clip of the 1960 Magnet Cup...I think Kenny Glover finished 3rd on Royal Painter.
The Fav.Right of Way was ridden by Eddie Hide for Will Elsey...I remember having a bob ew on that at some point...it won at 8/1.
Report TambourineMan. July 4, 2011 3:08 PM BST
This was the link if you're interested..

http://www.yfaonline.com/assetDetails.cfm?film=4210&keyword=york%20races&fromSearchValue=fromKeyword&start=1
Report patsyone July 4, 2011 3:11 PM BST
several come to mind
D EAST
D CULLEN
K TEMPLE-NIDD
J SIME
Report dunlaying July 4, 2011 3:29 PM BST
There was Flapper Yates who rode in the 60's .I think his name was David,but I am not sure.
Was there a John Higgins?He rode Tartar Prince in a memorable finish with Stowaway ridden by John Gorton.
J. Gorton was south african .Stowaway was cruising home ,Gorton looking over right shoulder,Higgins making ground over left shoulder.The commentator was having a fit,must have gone in heavy!
Sad to say I cannot remember the result.
Report dambuster July 4, 2011 3:50 PM BST
I THINK  J.HIGGINS RODE FOR  SIR HENRY CECIL IN THE LATE 70S,RODE A HORSE ONE DAY CALLED CONNAUGHT BRIDGE TO WIN A BIG H'CAP AT NEWBURY ON SATURDAY..
Report dambuster July 4, 2011 3:52 PM BST
ANYONE REMEMBER RAY STILL WINNING THE EBOR ON BIG HAT.?
AND DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE JUMP JOCKEY SANDY MAY.?
Report salmon spray July 4, 2011 3:53 PM BST
It was david Yates. he was champion apprentice in 63 I think. Rode on for a while but never made the big-time.
Report Mister E July 4, 2011 4:45 PM BST
whitmarsh,
Yes Mick Dillon was a stalls handler.
Also stunt man for Ringo Starr and Bill Oddie.
Lovely man, sadly passed on.
Report dunlaying July 4, 2011 5:06 PM BST
Flapper Yates rode for Doug Marks I think,Terry Baldwin rode some of the jumpers from the stable and ,I hope I am right,Jack Holt worked for him at the same time.
Terry Baldwin and Jack Holt teamed up at West Wittering.
But West Wittering is more famous for its Mars bars.
Report dunlaying July 4, 2011 5:09 PM BST
Dambuster I remember it well.I fancied the thing strongly but the tipster in The Sun said it could not win on the prevailing ground.
40/1.
Report TambourineMan. July 4, 2011 6:13 PM BST
Remember Flapper being a Comical looking chap radar aural units....reminiscent of Lance Percival or
Alfred E Neuman.....but a great rider.
Report snitram July 4, 2011 6:45 PM BST
Thanks TM, i noticed on the jockeys board that may not have been mentioned on here, A.Robson, i think his nickname was  "Brig". I was always more interested in the jumpers then 60s-70s especially W.A.Hall "Charlie" he had 70 horses then at Towton near Tadcaster, a lot owned by Clifford Nicholson who owned the Limestone stud. I remember all the jocks he used, Pat Gulwell, Colin Dukes, P.A.Farrell,Paddy Vaughn, Mick Naughton.
Report seaside dreamer July 4, 2011 7:20 PM BST
nick adams and steve dawson
Report dunlaying July 4, 2011 8:17 PM BST
Pat Eddery?
Report salmon spray July 4, 2011 8:25 PM BST
Yes Yates did look like Lance Percival. With freckles and a foot shorter.
Didn`t Paddy Farrell break his back falling from Border Flight in the 1964 National ? I remember cos I had backed it ( via my dad ).
Report dunlaying July 4, 2011 8:40 PM BST
Yes,I backed Border Flight that day.
Report dunlaying July 4, 2011 8:42 PM BST
Ha now I know why you are so depressed Salmon,you pick the same wretched beasts as I do.
You didn't happen to have a speculative e/w punt on Confront last saturday did you?
Report penny stall 64 July 4, 2011 9:47 PM BST
Morse, Steve Dawson, Dennis Mckay, Nicky Adams, Tyrone Williams, some from 1980s, in 1960s weights would have gone much lower with usual lightweights at bottom of the board, Hood, Eccleston and Jesse are 3 who come to mind- may have been mentioned earlier.
Report Mister E July 4, 2011 10:47 PM BST
penny stall 64

won the Solario Stakes in 1963 according to History of Racehorse Training at Epsom.
What did penny stall win in 64??
Report penny stall 64 July 4, 2011 10:54 PM BST
I think he won at Kempton in 1964 at a big price ( 20/1?). He ran in the 64 Derby- my mum backed him although he was a big outsider and well beaten, that's how the name in particular stayed with me.
Report trimmer July 4, 2011 10:59 PM BST
Mate of mine from Bradford,Mick Vickers won on Andrew John Redcar,100-1.Became a top rider in Australia later.David Harrelson who
rode for Lord Huntindon was very good.Became weelchair bound after a
bad fall.Tim Sprake was also good,but a bad car crash fin.his career.
(was not a lightweight).
Report salmon spray July 4, 2011 10:59 PM BST
Kempton Gns trial
Report salmon spray July 4, 2011 11:00 PM BST
Penny Stall that is
Report Mister E July 4, 2011 11:04 PM BST
Kempton Guineas Trial was a good race in those days.
Report penny stall 64 July 4, 2011 11:06 PM BST
Thanks, Salmon Spray. I remember he was trained by Walter Nightingall and usually ridden by Duncan Keith. He ran in the Eclipse also, but out of his depth in the top races.
Report dunlaying July 5, 2011 8:52 AM BST
Walter Nightingall,I think he won the same race soon after that with Niksar who went on to win the Guineas.If memory serves me well he was the first horse to complete the double.
Report Mister E July 5, 2011 9:13 AM BST
That is right dunlaying, Niksar won the 2000 guineas trial by 6 lengths.
I had a letter last year from Walter's son in law in Australia. They are pleased that so many of us remember WN.
The original "always trying".
Report dunlaying July 5, 2011 11:08 AM BST
Did W Nightingall have a chalk jockey called Whacker Russell?
Report Mister E July 5, 2011 11:53 AM BST
not heard of him.
Report whitmarsh July 5, 2011 1:23 PM BST
Mr.E,did you know or remember the old Epsom racing man Tommy Woodall?
Report Mister E July 5, 2011 2:24 PM BST
No whitmarsh sorry.

Joe Stevens will be there on Thursday night.He is about the oldest left.
Mick Dillon was my man for the oldtimers; mention a name and he could give you their life story.
Who did Tommy work for?
Report whitmarsh July 5, 2011 4:48 PM BST
I never known him do a days work.He lived in Epsom and knew everyone there was to know there,amazing man really,always smart,always in members with an owner/trainer badge.
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