When when they settle Euro squad picks? I want paid?

would be nice if they settled this wouldn't it!!!!!

From the rules:

Only players named in the FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa will be settled as winner(s) in this market.


I am not sure when this happens, do we know?

im positive its end of may

must be todays squad, otherwise why would suspend the market (it says it will stay in play in the rules)

i think they are about to settle cos the market has just been wiped clean

if its been wiped then it would have been payed out.

they are holding our funds unlawfully

shall we storm the castle with pitchforks?

looks like we'll have to wait til 29 may for pay day

It is def settled on team picked today but when is that posted to UEFA? Hope they send it first class.Hope they settle in time for me to get on Frankel on sat....

squad doesnt have to be confirmed with uefa til 29 may, cant see how they can settle before that if they stick to their wording in the market rules

exactly tommy. and why would they send it before that incase of injurys

Cheers for clearing that up Tommy ,looks like wait till 29th, my Parker bet might be in trouble if his injury plays up, thought it would be done on team picked today. Not to worry.

Yes but it said in the rules any changes would not count, so any player not mentioned today is a loser even if goes in the end. Had a word with HQ, there getting back to me.....

he

Market is unsuspended so looks like it will be open for the next couple of weeks

badjoe- any changes made to the first squad ''submitted to uefa'', which they dont need to do til 29 may as I understand it

they said it would be unmanaged. but they have suspended it, cancelled all unmatched bets, and reopened it. hardly unmanaged!!!
therefore they should settle all bets matched before the suspension.

Couple of clever people looking to lay Chelsea players in squad and couple others includ Parker for up to £1000 at 1.02.Looking for injuries this weekend.

badjoe 16 May 12 15:31 
Yes but it said in the rules any changes would not count, so any player not mentioned today is a loser even if goes in the end. Had a word with HQ, there getting back to me.....




True but say for example they settled Milner as a winner now, who then got injured against Belgium and replaced in the final sqaud by henderson.

milner would be a winner and henderson a loser....as stated in the rules.

comicbookguy 16 May 12 15:55 
Couple of clever people looking to lay Chelsea players in squad and couple others includ Parker for up to £1000 at 1.02.Looking for injuries this weekend.





Cahill is well worth a lay before saturday. He's touch and go anyway so could easily be pushed to make the final then aggravate his injury.

Biscuit squad named today but not finalist with Uefa until 29th after that any changes would be losers. Did not make it very clear, few burnt fingers if any injuries this weekend or in training.

Must admit their rules do seem a bit conflicting.


I read this bit:

For the avoidance of doubt, please note that this market will be settled on the squad of 23 players which is submitted to UEFA by Tuesday the 29th May 2012. Please be aware that this market will be suspended on the 29th of May at 09:00BST before the squad is announced.


So surely if Milner is chosen today, then gets injured and then doesn't make it, and is replaced by Henderson in the squad by the 29th, he'd be a loser?

Agree about Cahill, would not be my £1000 to win £10. Couple of friendlies too as well as all that training. I only had small amount on so not to worried but bet a few are sweating.

Yes anyone not in the squad on 29th would be loser ,does not matter about todays announcement. Couple anxcious weeks for some.

The rules weren't particularly helpful when it talked about FIRST squad submitted to UEFA but didn't originally put the 29th May date on it (although it's there now).  The update clarifies it now, but whoever wrote those original rules should find another vocation.

Must admit their rules do seem a bit conflicting.


I read this bit:

For the avoidance of doubt, please note that this market will be settled on the squad of 23 players which is submitted to UEFA by Tuesday the 29th May 2012. Please be aware that this market will be suspended on the 29th of May at 09:00BST before the squad is announced.

There was no date on the rules when I read them, before placing the bets. It just stated the submitting to UEFA bit...100% sure on that.......

Don't really know why they didn't have the market based simply on today's announcement.

Will the named player be in the Official England squad to compete in the Euro 2012 finals? Only players named in the FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa will be settled as winner(s) in this market. Should a player be included in the squad list submitted to Uefa but then left out for whatever reason the runner will still be settled as a winner. Should a player not be included in the squad list submitted to Uefa and then subsequently be included in the squad at a later date the runner will nonetheless be settled as a loser. Each runner represents an individual market and commission will be charged accordingly. This market will not be actively managed and customers will therefore be responsible for their own positions at all times.

May 16, 2012 -- 4:08PM, fallenangel wrote:

Will the named player be in the Official England squad to compete in the Euro 2012 finals? Only players named in the FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa will be settled as winner(s) in this market. Should a player be included in the squad list submitted to Uefa but then left out for whatever reason the runner will still be settled as a winner. Should a player not be included in the squad list submitted to Uefa and then subsequently be included in the squad at a later date the runner will nonetheless be settled as a loser. Each runner represents an individual market and commission will be charged accordingly. This market will not be actively managed and customers will therefore be responsible for their own positions at all times.

Yes and I understood this to mean the payout will be after todays announcement....frustrating

Bet365 paid out based on todays announcement

Well the team is listed on the official UEFA website, who is in , who is out. Betfair can not just change the T+C's by adding in a date after bets have already been placed. I would not have placed the bets knowing the funds would be tied up until the 29th.

Totally agree badjoe I would not have bet if thought was going to have to wait. There was no mention about 29th when I checked rules. Think someone made mistake on that one.

Ya I'm in the exact same boat.

sent them this email:

Dear Sir/Madam,
I request that you settle the England squad market as the rules have been fulfilled, The England squad as announced today is now listed on the UEFA official website.
The initial rules stated that the market would be settled once the squad had been registered with uefa.
I note that you have since change the rules by adding the date of 29th May, However, this date was not in the initial rules and has no bearing to our bets.
I am amazed that you are trying to change the rules after bets have been placed and matched.
You also stated that the market would be unmanaged. Today you suspended the market and cancelled all unmatched bets. This means that you recognise that the market was concluded.
Please settle this market by the rules you had when we placed and had our bets matched.
I look forward to your email confirming that you will abide by your own rules and will settle these bets today.
Kind regards

Let us know what their response to that is, that email sums up my thoughts on it.

fallenangel - the problem you have here is that todays squad HASN'T been submitted to UEFA.

Just because it's on UEFA's website doesn't mean anything. It's not official until the 29th.

Look at the Spain squad on the UEFA websitE:

Spain squad
Goalkeepers: Iker Casillas (Real Madrid CF), David de Gea (Manchester United FC), Pepe Reina (Liverpool FC).

Defenders: Jordi Alba (Valencia CF), Raúl Albiol (Real Madrid CF), Álvaro Arbeloa (Real Madrid CF), Álvaro Domínguez (Club Atlético de Madrid), Ignacio Monreal (Málaga CF), Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid CF), Juanfran (Club Atlético de Madrid).

Midfielders: Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid CF), Santi Cazorla (Málaga CF), Beñat Etxebarria (Real Betis Balompié), Javi García (SL Benfica), Isco (Málaga CF), Bruno Soriano (Villarreal CF).

Forwards: Adrián López (Club Atlético de Madrid), Jesús Navas (Sevilla FC), Álvaro Negredo (Sevilla FC), David Silva (Manchester City FC), Roberto Soldado (Valencia CF).



Notice any players missing?

Biscuit1979
16 May 12 16:33 Joined: 16 Nov 10

The problem lies in their T + C's for that market, as mentioned above they can not just add in a date that was not there before,just because one of their staff could not do their job properly....

biscuit - betfair said that the market would be unmanaged.  why then did they suspend the market and cancel all unmatched bets today?
i think they have fecked up and should settle on all bets that were matched before the the suspension.

I accept that but putting the date issue aside their original rules still stated:

'Only players named in the FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa will be settled as winner(s) in this market'

No squad is submitted to UEFA until the 29th.

I was only pointing out to fallenangel that just because the squad is on the uefa website, this doesn't mean it's final. The Spain squad being a perfect example of this.

biscuit - also the market was not on the 'official' squad. it was on the first squad registered with uefa.
all the teams can make any changes they want until 29th. no squad is official until then.

the rules state FIRST squad registered with uefa. most teams have registered their first squads, england included. it will not be the official squad until the 29th, but thats not what we were betting on.

fallenangel
16 May 12 16:43 Joined: 06 May 10 | Topic/replies: 3,657 | Blogger: fallenangel's blog
biscuit - also the market was not on the 'official' squad. it was on the first squad registered with uefa.
all the teams can make any changes they want until 29th. no squad is official until then.

the rules state FIRST squad registered with uefa. most teams have registered their first squads, england included. it will not be the official squad until the 29th, but thats not what we were betting on.

Totally agree with this, Even Betfair agreed on this when I phoned, still waiting for a reply from them...........

How will we know when the squad is sent to uefa just because its got to be in by then way well be put in earlier. They have 5 reserves in case of injuries. To me it should have been decided on squad today imo.

biscuit - i will say this again to make sure you understand. we were NOT betting on the offical squad. we were betting on the FIRST squad registered with uefa. that has now happened.
of course no squad is offical until 29th, but thats NOT what we were betting on. Here are the rules to make it clear :

Will the named player be in the Official England squad to compete in the Euro 2012 finals? Only players named in the FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa will be settled as winner(s) in this market. Should a player be included in the squad list submitted to Uefa but then left out for whatever reason the runner will still be settled as a winner. Should a player not be included in the squad list submitted to Uefa and then subsequently be included in the squad at a later date the runner will nonetheless be settled as a loser. Each runner represents an individual market and commission will be charged accordingly. This market will not be actively managed and customers will therefore be responsible for their own positions at all times.

I think we can all agree they f*cked the rules up

i think the rules are pretty clear:

Only players named in the FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa will be settled as winner(s) in this market. This market will not be actively managed and customers will therefore be responsible for their own positions at all times.

this has now happened. the bets placed and matched have nothing to do with the final squad, which has to be submitted by the 29thMay.

Yes the rules are pretty clear.

And as i've said before this whole market rests on the bit in their rules where it says "FIRST official England Squad submitted to Uefa".

If todays squad is just for the press and the public but ISN'T actually submitted to UEFA then they can't settle it. What's the point in submitting a squad to UEFA today if you can change it as many times as you like until the 29th.

The Spain squad will change dramatically it's missing half their normal team, the Dutch have named 27 players, so have the Germans.

Anyway i've said my bit. Someone needs to find out if the squad today has actually been submitted to UEFA, i suspect looking at other countries squads, that it hasn't. Someone give Platini a call.

hi fellas can understand frustration i would of also have expected market to be settled today. i was just wondering jagielka is on standby if he's selected because say cahill gets injured this bet still loses for me dosen't it? although i have got £12 green on other side.


Phil Jagielka
£52.37, £12.00
   


Micah Richards
£25.37, £4.69

why would they submit this list to Uefa as anything can happen between now and the end of the month? This is the provisional squad. The official squad will be known on the 29th of may

thats the point, the best have got nothing to do with the final squad.
this is the first squad. any changes can be made to it.
and it was the first squad we were betting on.

The rules aren't clear hence this thread.  Just bad wording in the rules because;

The original rules made no reference of 29th May.

They said FIRST squad, when in fact the market now settles on 29th May which is more like the final squad.

It was never clear in the rules what constituted 'submit to UEFA'.

I can wait for my money, but it's annoying the rules were so badly written.  Should just have been designed and rules written with today's squad in mind.

still no sign of betfair abiding by the own rules

Feel a little deceived to be honest. If they're not paying out until the end of May, it made no sense to suspend the market before the announcement. Have e-mailed and complained. Are any other bookmakers keeping the market open in the same way?

Billies have paid out but their rules were on todays announcement....i read betfair rules as first official squad to be submitted to uefa...guess England will only submit one and that will be on deadline day. (uefa website is probably just a press release)

Well looks like get paid ouy end of month, still why suspend today for 3 hours? also why not suspend last night when all info was out regarding Rio, Terry, keeper, etc like when a horse injured? Seems the whole market a bit of a farce.

Probably suspended it as they realised their rules weren't clear, worked something plausible out and quickly added the clarification.

anyone got a reply from betfair yet? seems they disappear when they make a mess of something. customer service is getting worse and worse (if thats possible!!!)

Got to wonder why my bets arent showing up on the page now? total balls up imo.

did you place your bet before the suspend ? if so it will have been cancelled when they suspended it.
thats why i think they should payout cos they said the market WOULD NOT be managed. hence it was finished when it was suspended.

Bets were on around the last two weeks ,they are back on now. Only prob I might have is Parker who I backed at 1.3 you can still back at 1.2 now so someone might know something about his injury. Got to wait till kick off for my Gerrard captain bet but I knew that, someone offering 85s for Rio or 50s for Scholes?? cheers but no thanks...

Has anyone received a reply from Betfair on this?

no, they always go silent when they've fecked up.
customer services is none existent nowadays

there's a reply in site feedback

Pretty much as i expected. BCM2 almost copied and pasted my post from yesterday

Where can I see this reply?

we all knew what the outcome would be
everyone accepts that betfair made a b@lls of it, but you're more likely to get an apology from joey barton

The rules have not actually been changed as the user suggests – they have just been clarified
that clarification is a hell of a change though isnt it.

love the bit where they say that they can suspend and cancel bets whenever they want even if they have said clients are responsible for managing their own bets. b

basically its the usual "we can do what we want cos we have a monopoly". thats a dangerous approach to have to customers.

here's the reply mate :

Here's a reply from the Football Markets team: "We appreciate the user's frustration, however we have always stated that the squad will be settled on the squad that is first submitted to Uefa. Whilst Roy has announced the squad there is no evidence to suggest that it has been formally submitted to Uefa. And indeed it makes little sense for any teams to submit their squads to Uefa when there could still be changes made. We're sure Roy has made up his mind but the reality of it is that he has until 10 days before the first game of the Euro’s to make amendments to the squad before submitting it to Uefa. The rules have not actually been changed as the user suggests – they have just been clarified.

Regarding the management of the market – it is not actively managed which means we have no responsibility to suspend, cancel unmatched bets etc at any point. However, in the interests of fairness and integrity, we made the decision to cancel unmatched bets before re-opening the market following the initial squad announcement yesterday. We are completely covered within our rules and regs and may cancel unmatched bets at any time and at our discretion on any markets – regardless of if they are actively managed.

We are happy that the market is still open on site and will be settling it either on the 29th (the deadline for submitting squads) or when we have received confirmation the squad has already been officially submitted to Uefa."

kicking myself over using betfair for this market.

i do very little betting/trading on betfair now due to :
- decent odds elsewhere with a lower commission (or none at all if at bookies sites)
- better customer service everywhere else (which isnt hard, lets face it)
- terrible changes being forced up customers (beta anyone?)
- site down with no warning (and then being lied to by being told it was a planned maintenance)

cos of all this i only use betfair for a few 'fun' bets as any improvement of odds is quickly lost in commission. these fun bets have got less and less during this last season. much easier and more profitable on the purple site.