VW

Greece should fine VW $10 billion and use it to pay off some of the loans from Germany.

I own a golf gti

my council residential parking permits charges are ranked by emmissions

VW were the lowest

The US becoming the Worlds policeman more and more....after FIFA and now VW who next ?

Sorry, I may be slow but I still don't get it!

RAC chief engineer David Bizley said: “Motorists on this side of the pond will be looking for reassurances that vehicles sold in Britain – which are subject to stringent European emissions standards testing – are not affected by today’s Volkswagen announcement.”

If this is the case, and the implication is that the tested vehicles are not being interfered with, that surely means they are capable of meeting emissions standards honestly!

So why in the US do they have to resort to such devious measures?

they won't have just done it in the usa, they will have fitted that software to a model in some cases not just the cars destined for certain countries

i don't know the usa targets for imported cars but they might be tougher than european standards for EU made cars

the other reason is they've just used it as a massive marketing ploy, to be the best when in fact they are nowhere near

i'd lay odds that this isn't just vw, straight away they'd look at skoda, seat, audi, bentley, porsche etc

i remember not long ago audi got pulled for false advertising on something to do with fuel economy, reckon this will be a worldwide issue and not restricted to just the vw group either

So they get fined zillions, and who ends up paying the fine?

the man in the street will pay one way or another

Aunty Post - you know that NO2 emissions kill people? 

elise - VW shareholders are going to pay the fines (not just from the US, it will be a frenzy all over the world) and the losses of those who bought their cars.  Who is going to buy a second hand VW when you have no idea if its ever going to pass an MOT.

dave, that's what i meant

shareholders, pension funds, or investments, car owners, through increased road tax or reduced values, new owners might get an inferior product due to margin trimming, job losses for suppliers that feed vw not just vw themselves, ultimately a few people lose their job but those down the line foot the bill

Aunty Post - you know that NO2 emissions kill people?

Well of course dave....

Already posted this (I thought) but it was lost in the ether (maybe I hit cancel)!!!

Anyway elise has pretty much said everything I said later and, aside from loss of face, the culprits will lose nothing (and that particularly, if further investigation finds fault throughout the industry)!

not sure about the "culprits lose nothing" bit - I can see someone in a US prison unless they can get convicted elsewhere and avoid double jeopardy.

Is it just the Diesel engines affected by this scandal?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772

“The EPA says that VW denied the allegations for over a year”


Its lost of trust,honesty is whats so shocking

As far as I could gather from the bit that I saw about it: The car's software 'knows' when it is being diagnostically checked and uses to some tightly-restrictive settings which give low emission figures. Once unplugged from the diagnostic equipment, it reverts to it's regular settings which give far-from-impressive results.

What a stupid gamble to take! As crazy as the Banking industry. Whoever told these people that they know what they are doing? They are just salesmen!

hitler--VW scandal




https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=dKef1JFpiCA

German newspaper reports VW CEO lost support of board, and they have brought forward Wed's meeting about renewing his contract to tonight

I think its hilarious and synonymous with the human race, look at the other story on bbc website today about the hedge fund that purchased a pharmaceutical company only to up the price of AIDS drugs by 5000% because they saw more profit opportunity than the previous owners.
Its simply rampant opportunism of enterprise and the politicians tell us we should all bow to it and continue to reduce regulation so they can get on with making more money....however they end up doin that seemingly.

Actually creating software to cheat the system is contemptible, its so contrived that it can not be defended, its like being caught with the proceeds of a robbery, and have the plans on you of how you did it

Would any customers have actually purchased their VWs because of the perceived and advertised low emission readings?  I have never met anyone yet who told me they bought their car (whatever the manufacturer) on this basis.

many women do--TDI

At least VW have an army of cheap labour on the way....

Strapline on their most recent adverts:

"You get what you pay for".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqInkUNG0aU

Oh the irony.

vorsprung der technik Fiedeln

Wednesday's Telegraph front page:
VW scandal: petrol cars could also be ****

VW Are now learning the hard way what its like to be the world's biggest car producer,
Basically it's the curse to be number 1.
Every manufacturer that has held the number one title has been attacked by the automotive industry, I not defending VW in anyway but it is a fact. Look how much trouble the previous top selling companies like GM and Toyota had when they were at the top, never a week went by without a bad news story in the press. All car companies have a multitude of dodgy issues they go to extreme lengths to keep out of the public domain. But when you're number one your the main target.

not sure about the "culprits lose nothing" bit

For "culprits" read "company".

Considering the very many people within VW, who must have been privy to the information, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a "whistle blower"!

Maybe someone with an axe to grind!

this article is brilliant--deception device--wtf


http://mashable.com/2015/09/22/vw-tdi-emissions-scandal/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link#Q99xY7dhzSqC

Potentiall the end for VW as a company. It could be broken up to protect the "clean" brands in the Group if there are any. Can't believe they thougfht that they could get away with this for long. It was triggered by a protectionist measure in the US of course. They don't like competition over there.

I  don't think that's fair on the Americans, it was the Americas that made VW and West Germany  after the war a success. In the eyes of the West Germany had to not only survive but be the leading light in Europe during the the cold war.

That was meant to say in the  eyes of the Americas

It's a bit like the banks and the ppi scandal, if 1 is doing it, then they're all doing it.

TWONKY TOP TIP

If your diesel car is due an emissions test, run the diesel right down then top up with 12 litres of paraffin. The car will run fine but obviously you can't run on paraffin all the time. Drive car down motorway, emissions go from black smoke to grey then nothing. Better than any diesel cleaner.

Been driving diesels as taxis for 15 years and never once failed an emissions test. Taxi is tested twice per year.

Volkswagen chief executive Martin Winterkorn has just resigned over the manipulation of US diesel car emissions tests.

.

macarony 23 Sep 15 08:44 Joined: 13 Mar 05 | Topic/replies: 3,040 | Blogger: macarony's blog
I  don't think that's fair on the Americans, it was the Americas that made VW and West Germany  after the war a success.

VW's resurrection after the War was entirely down to a British officer called Major Hirst. The VW factory is in Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony), which was in the British sector - the American sector was in the south.

The British army was in need of light transport, so Hirst got the bomb-damaged factory restarted to produce cars for the British army. Eventually he offered the factory to various companies, including Ford in the USA. Henry Ford II turned the offer down, saying it wasn't worth a dime.

In the end the West Germans were left to go it alone.

But I agree with you that the West German post-War "economic miracle" was down to the USA writing off nearly all of Germany's debts plus supplying vast financial aid via the Marshall Plan.

Unfortunately they did not write off Britain's debts, and it took us 6 decades to pay off those.

Unfortunately they did not write off Britain's debts, and it took us 6 decades to pay off those.

That's what's known as the "Special Relationship"

bmw & mercedes up next up

@screaming from beneththewaves
I know all about the history of VW and the British army restarting production after the war, however my point is the fact that West Germany was not allowed to fail, the Americans went extreme lengths to insure West Germany became the industrial power house of Europe, often at Britains expence.

Have you ever wondered how a outdated impractical Skoda copy become one of the best selling cars in history.

I can't believe that this wasn't known by quite a lot of people ... including some authorities in some countries.
One mischievious engineer somewhere in Germany didn't do this on his own.
Car design and manufacture is a highly controlled process where everything is documented.  You just can't have one person doing things like this in isolation ... many would have know and be complicit.

Europan commision apparently known since 2013.

Reminds me of the horsemeat in burgers scandal. Everyone ignores proper testing and then governments feign outrage for public consumption, swiss banned the offending cars from sale today

The testing was sh!t at behest of the car industry

A 2013 report by the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre drew attention to the challenges posed by the devices, which are able to skew the results of exhaust readings.
But regulators then failed to pursue the issue — despite the fact the technology had been illegal in Europe since 2007

The issue of who knew what, and when, about defeat devices also surfaced in the UK. The opposition Labour party attacked the government after it admitted receiving evidence nearly a year ago that some diesel cars were fitted to rig emissions testing.
The Department for Transport said that in October 2014 it received a report by the International Council on Clean Transportation saying there was a “real world nitrogen oxides compliance issue” for diesel passenger cars.
The ICCT said it tested 15 vehicles and found they produced an average of seven times the legal limit for the deadly gas. One car produced 25 times the limit

Brendan... were the 15 vehicles tested all different makes, or a few models from a small number of manufacturers?
I am sure that VW are not alone in all this.

@ macarony:

I agree with you that the West German post-War "economic miracle" was down to the USA writing off nearly all of Germany's debts plus supplying vast financial aid via the Marshall Plan.

Unfortunately they did not write off Britain's debts, and it took us 6 decades to pay off those.

Doesn't seem any way of avoiding an argument on the internet.

Point taken.

Switzerland have prohibited sales of the VW group models known to have the defeat device.
Why haven't our government done the same?
Throughout this saga the emphasis in reporting has been on the potential cost to VW, their shareholders and to VW owners.
What about the toxic air in our cities and the cost to the health of all of us especially the young, the elderly and those with existing respiratory conditions?
When I was at school a child suffering from asthma was a very rare thing despite the air pollution from burning coal. Today it's almost the norm. Why is that? I have my suspicions.

Could you imagine the response by the BBC and Co if it had been poor old Rover or JLR that had been the culprit.

It occurred to me that existing VW owners may be reluctant to purchase the same brand when changing vehicles which will suit other manufacturers and ruin the secondhand market for VW s.

I bet there is a few smug Audi owners papping themselves when it comes to trading time.

I bet there is a few smug Audi owners papping themselves when it comes to trading time.

Christ, what if you've got one of these diesel Porsches.

BTW does VW own Ferrari? - and are there any diesel Ferraris?

You mean Lamborghini not Ferrari

oooh-errr

I bet them with the V12 diesel version must be very worried.

i'd place money on there being cars produced in the uk whether british or foreign owned factories that have the same issues and the government would have nothing to gain from being first to damage the car industry

If it had been cars made in the UK then France would have banned their
sale tout suite.
ps you can buy a Maserati with a diesel engine,shouldnt be allowed.

Have to feel for "the poor" VW salesmen, getting a bollocking every Monday morning, for not meeting targets.

Insult to injury when they can't put food on the table.

I bet there are loads jumping ship right now!

i think any major car producing nation will sit and wait until the overall picture is known incase their own producers are involved, the rumours say the whole of vag are likely to be named and that won't be then end of it

What will happen is that there will be an urgent "independent" study that will conclude that diesel fumes are ok in moderation and that the exhaust limits will be relaxed.

The global car industry would go into melt down otherwise, as would oil companies ... and also those of us who were conned into buying "greener" diesel cars in the first place.

i suspect that the demand will be to achieve cleaner results within a few years no matter what that requires and in the short term existing diesels will be taxed more by governments so the owners will be penalised, therefore expect massive lawsuits

the only question is how many cars and manufacturers will be implicated

Yes, fine, but what will happen to Vehicle Tax Bands?

They should be fined by the UK government. The tax man has lost billions in tax due to the cars being illegal put in the incorrect tax bracket

tax bands mean zilch, they are what the government want them to be in order to produce revenue under the pretence of being green

they could leave them unchanged and just revise the amount paid by offending vehicles (owners), the bands might have to be adjusted if cars cannot conform but either way diesel owners driving cars that are now higher rated will pay more

that was to ap not zazu,

i love VWs the CARS  , but the COMPANY need stringing up by the nuts -hope they go under (and any like them) deceitful  tw0ts .

This is a huge can of worms being opened here. Those of us (myself included, although my diesel car is not a VW or Audi) who bought diesel for the fuel economy and tax band reasons, have somewhat been misled over the true picture. Who do I sue?

They've always been cheats.
They tried to rob us in 1966 when they said that shot from Hurst hadn't gone over the line.

They could also face legal action from other car companies for loss of sales, due to false claims on co2 emissions.

Jaguar have just spent many millions on new engines but still were short of VW and BMW's CLAIMED co2 figures. Now we know why.

Indeed, if i was a rival car company i would be suing them for losses.

macarony
they would already know VW's emissions claims were dodgy.
all of the major motor manufacturers take their competitors cars to bits to see what's what.
Have done for years.
The industry and authorities would have known about this for years.
It's just we hoi polloi that were unaware until the Amerjcans decided to broadcast it for some reason.
Trust me ... and it's just not the automotive sector that behaves like this.

We all know what goes on in the car industry, of course other manufactures knew what VW was up to, but that’s the chance they took and when they were getting away with it everything was good, but now they have been caught it is time to take the punishment.
No getting away from the fact it was an incredibly bad decision on a corporate level that is going to ruin them.
The general public bought cars from VW in good faith, cars that they might have bought elsewhere, and that’s what the competition will claim on any law suit.

Macarony
I think we agree.
Unfortunately the great British public  - - maybe the world public - trusts their Governments to do the right thing.
Butsometimes they take an easier option.
And we lose.

I really hope the reperucssions for this aren't too bad :(

I don't want the authorities coming after me for sucking my gut in when attractive women walk by, it's exactly the same thing.

They may have trapped themselves into this
They could well have used this as a quick fix to bypass some emission controls somewhere to hold down car tax.

They could, then have found there was in fact no permanent fix, so kept it and perhaps expanded its use????????????????????

The first thing is to assess how widespread this is. But I think this will cost them dear

Still it was their own fault, cheats never prosper as they say

An incredibly bad decision in hindsight

ps

xmoneyx's car parking charges will have to go up

Also as some posters have pointed  out, VW have let themselves down morally here, these emission controls are to protect peoples health

They have failed badly here VW, pity because they make a fine car

But rules are rules

Miza and fakelaki are the lubrication that keeps the Greek economy running smoothly. Fakelaki -- literally "small envelope" -- is a payment used when Greeks need to be treated by a doctor or are having trouble with a tax auditor.

Miza, on the other hand, is the money that doesn't fit into a small envelope and requires something bigger, like a suitcase, or when the cash needs to be squirreled away in an account in one of the world's many tax havens. Without miza -- i.e., bribes -- virtually no foreign company could do business in Greece. Large government contracts are particularly prone to miza.
These deals often allow millions to flow via shell corporations around the world and back into the pockets of industrialists, civil servants, the military and politicians. Meanwhile, the payments are usually declared on the company's books as commissions for negotiating contracts. And German industry is one of the major players in the game of miza Monopoly.

.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/complicit-in-corruption-how-german-companies-bribed-their-way-to-greek-deals-a-693973.html

A side to german industry we dont hear so much about. If it was level playing field maybe UK would could compete better.

indeed ebulgery

were my favorite   breed of car until last week

emmisions are important esp with diesel - i wish diesel was banned personally - i think it's responsible for most cancer cases - and i won't be told otherwise .

Cancer rates rising - diesel veh's more and more -

It is very confusing coachbuster, a few years ago we where encouraged to buy diesel, as used less fuel

I am sad to see so many people making excuses for our failure to compete with Germany.
Germans are more willing to work for the good of their country, whereas we only believe in work for ourselves,
sod the country...I feel it is a weakness in us

Still the Germans made a bit of a faux pas here, even they do not get it right all the time

I stick to the British mini, no German engineering there....erm???????????????????

It is of course a cheap BMW brilliantly sold

petrol coachbuster

us car industry is in a mess and they try and keep imports out at all cost ,less than 4% of US cars are diesel ,mainly because of the strict pollution limits in place their .                                                                                                                                                   The modern vehicle engine management system was born out of strict US  anti pollution regs from California .   To put some bones on the allegations it looks like the manufacturers have been using very shady means to  pull the wool over the regulators eyes (walfs) covertly changing engine settings when vehicle is being tested by gov bodies ,still trying to find out exactly what they have done but it looks like the fix has been disguising some serious NOx levels ,this is a carcinogenic pollutant (hence criminal )suspect there is a lot more to come out of this ,doubt Vag group will survive intact .Some talk the systems that prevent high NOx only worked when tested because they prevent good fuel economy but unsure if this is true .The death of the diesel (it's been coming ),and perhaps there is a lot more to this ,perhaps some serious legislation on vehicle emissions and some serious tax increases are in the post .

I wouldn't be surprised to see some VERY serious tax hikes for diesel powered cars in the near future.
Whether other manufacturers are involved in the same hidden software scam as VW is irrelevant when it comes to Gideon rubbing his hands over this, all diesel cars will be tarred with the same brush. The taxman won't discriminate VW/Audi from the rest.
That's my fear anyway, being a diesel driver (not a VAG btw)

I think the normal diesel driver is unaware of all this

They thought they were doing the right thing

You are saying normal petrol cars give less emissions?

We wont give up our cars...that's a cert. Moving towards electric engines but very slow...hybrid cars the best route here
Future rules may say use electric setting only in large population centres...an idea

Just to reiterate the issue is NOx ,diesel emission problems have mostly been from particulate emissions not NOx ,reckon the stuff they have been doing is a bit more than some hidden software ,consumers have been conned ,people's health affected and the air we all breath polluted , it's over for the derv ,funny enough when Karl Diesel first showed the public his invention it ran on peanut oil ,he must be turning in his grave .I suspect there is an agenda at play here and this will be just the start ,rip the Diesel engine .

Rudolf Diesel turning in his grave. Who is dis verdammter Karl getting all de credit?

ebulGery
28 Sep 15 20:40
Joined: 08 May 10
| Topic/replies: 17,968 | Blogger: ebulGery's blog
It is very confusing coachbuster, a few years ago we where encouraged to buy diesel, as used less fuel

I am sad to see so many people making excuses for our failure to compete with Germany.
Germans are more willing to work for the good of their country, whereas we only believe in work for ourselves,
sod the country...I feel it is a weakness in usSad

Still the Germans made a bit of a faux pas here, even they do not get it right all the time

I stick to the British mini, no German engineering there....erm???????????????????


I take you did not know that the late Rover group both paid for and developed both the BMW mini and the R6/BMW 1 series.

On the subject of fuel, Ammonia Hydrogen is both clean and cheaply produced. Maybe too clean and too easily produced for the globalist world dominators.

macarony
I take you did not know that the late Rover group both paid for and developed both the BMW mini and the R6/BMW 1 series.

Then one has to regret the Rover Group is still not in existing making them...the mini
I suspect the fact that BMW has a higher reputation has aided Mini Sales...sadly

spotting tdi,s everywhere since scandal broke

Isn't ammonia a product of hydrocarbons, the same as petrol or diesel fuel?

So you use energy to make the ammonia, then more energy in the car to extract the hydrogen?

If I were a globalist world dominator who owned an oil or gas well, I think I'd be pushing ammonia as a fuel rather than fearing it.

Belgium ran out oil during the ww2 so they ran their transport system off Ammonia Hydrogen

"it can be made from all primary energy sources so production sources can be diversified or production can focus on the cheapest, cleanest and greenest source.  Ammonia can be used in internal combustion engines with minor modifications."




http://www.agmrc.org/renewable_energy/renewable_energy/ammonia-as-a-transpor...

ebulGery
29 Sep 15 10:37
Joined: 08 May 10
| Topic/replies: 17,970 | Blogger: ebulGery's blog
macarony
I take you did not know that the late Rover group both paid for and developed both the BMW mini and the R6/BMW 1 series.

Then one has to regret the Rover Group is still not in existing making them...the mini
I suspect the fact that BMW has a higher reputation has aided Mini Sales...sadly


The more you look at BMW’s treatment and running of the Rover group the dirtier it becomes.
Everything from sacking Rovers European dealership and forcing them to try and sell cars only through BMW’s own dealers who often either had no idea about Rover, cars or worse simply had no interest in selling them. Pulling models out of production without a replacement (Rover 100 and 600 series).
Selling off half the factory at Cowley (Oxford) for house building then claiming that they haven’t got enough capacity for the mini and need to build some models in Austria and Holland.
The list goes on they were complete charlatans only interested in asset stripping and killing off an up and coming competitor. Just like MAN did when they bought out the British market leader ERF, and the then Labour government done absolutely nothing to stop it.

I bought my golf gti because it was the chav car 1990s

JC



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NnuWG9SomsU

1970s

that's more like it xmoneyx

macorony

Everything you say may well be true. But that is not the point is it.
The Germans compete, we don't, we just wimp out.

I have seen many football managers complain about the tactics of the opposition in important matches,
'they parked the bus', 'they gave us no chance to play', etc
But at the end of the season it, matters little...all that is important is who is at the top of premiership, however
they have done it

So it is in the world of commerce

The Germans compete
We just whinge...we get what we deserve, f.all

We should be looking, can we now take advantage of VW's mistake, that is what we should be doing

We had a car industry that was envy of the world once...what happened to it

remember as a kid my dad was proud of his hillman hunter



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootes_Arrow#/media/File:Hillman_Hunter_with...

That link keeps appearing and disappearing
They don't make them like that any more

It's about time someone spoke up and told the truth. Yet another costly blunder by the Bliar government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34407670

Ebul. Its called a Blink.

when vw say they will "fix" wrong uns, what they are really saying is they will remove the defeat device

that doesn't make the pollution any better, it gives owners a car that now has higher emissions that can be detected and taxed as such, some may even fail the mot

to actually get pollution to the level they claimed those engines were supposedly capable of would now require a newer engine of lower power to be fitted .... vw#fixfckall

I like ebuls thinking.
Instead of cuddling up to these other nations our leaders should now be taking
Advantage of this balls up.

ebulGery
30 Sep 15 00:53
Joined: 08 May 10
| Topic/replies: 17,986 | Blogger: ebulGery's blog
that's more like it xmoneyxLaugh

macorony

Everything you say may well be true. But that is not the point is it.
The Germans compete, we don't, we just wimp out.

I have seen many football managers complain about the tactics of the opposition in important matches,
'they parked the bus', 'they gave us no chance to play', etc
But at the end of the season it, matters little...all that is important is who is at the top of premiership, however
they have done it

So it is in the world of commerce

The Germans compete
We just whinge...we get what we deserve, f.allSad



How can we compete when our biggest enemy is our own government followed by the political elite.
They have proved time and again they hate the working class and they hate manufacturing.