Tennis Talk 2023: Vol 39 (ATP World Tour Finals)

What is it that I've always said? Sabine always doing well on courts with green on them!

Nov 13, 2023 -- 9:59AM, edy wrote:

The WTA released somewhat of a schedule for 2024.

Is Cancun on there?

No, and it doesn't state another WTA Finals location either yet. The season seems to be longer and the WTA might have chosen to clash with the ATP Finals. The last regular WTA tournaments are scheduled to end November 3 2024. If they keep the usual thing of Elite Trophy and then WTA Finals the two weeks after that, the WTA Finals would indeed clash with the ATP Finals that start on Novembe r 10.

So BJK Cup will most likely also be pushed back and clash with Davis Cup.

Merida's spot is wild.

US Open in the two weeks ending September 8
Guadalajara the week after that as a WTA500 (Wuhan is back with its licence later)
Then exclusively Asia from September 16 to October 27.
Followed by Merida in Mexico in the final week of the season (plus two more Asian tournaments that week)

....Cluj-Napoca gone. If they want, I am sure the WTA would allow them to have a WTA125 though. Those aren't really in the calendar yet.

I guess Merida would make some sense if there will be strong hard court ITFs or WTA125s around it, but no sign of that as of now.

Honestly think Zverev is significant value today, Alcaraz has been awful recently, and has no real pedigree indoors.

Cluj-Napoca is never on the calendar and always end up finding a spot in the end

Would be very classic WTA if they decided to clash their year end finals with ATP's.

That's interesting regarding Carlos indoors. Unlike with Rafa where I see reasons why he'd not as good indoors I think with Carlos it's more of a case of him being injured/fatigued last year and out of form/fatigued this year and that his time will come eventually.

Carlos had a weird season overall.

Not a convincing start in South America despite 1 W, 1 F and an 8-1 record.

Then went on a tear in IW.

Lost to Sinner in Miami.

Mixed bag in Barcelona and Madrid, but people tend to remember the good results.

The shocker against Marozsan in Rome, some say soft tank, I think it was another case of playing with fire and this time not getting away with it.

Playing well in Paris and having market go crazy for him only to be owned by Djokovic there after having cramps.

Wobbly start to the grass season. Almost lost to Rinderknech, then going on another tear like in IW.

Hasn't really found form since, possibly due to overplaying. Playing Hopman Cup just after Wimbledon probably not the wisest move.

Disappointing Canada. Somehow made Cincy final before losing a classic final against Novak.

Looked good in NY before the surprise loss against Medvedev.

Then poor results after that.

If he loses today, it will be the first time since 2021 he suffers three losses in a row.
22‑Mar‑2021    Miami Masters    Hard    R128    132    83    Emil Ruusuvuori [FIN] d. (WC)Alcaraz    6-4 2-6 7-5    
15‑Mar‑2021    Acapulco    Hard    R32    132    7    (2)Alexander Zverev [GER] d. (WC)Alcaraz    6-3 6-1       
1‑Mar‑2021    Las Palmas 2 CH    Clay    R16    131    248    Marco Trungelliti [ARG] d. (1)Alcaraz    7-6(5) 6-3

I think his tendency to be playful/adventurous simply hurts him more indoors against all those big servers than it does elsewhere.

what a mug Zverev.

A big part of it with Nadal was he was always tired/injured by end of year too. The few times he turned up to YEC in good shape he'd do decent, but more often than not he wasn't in good shape.

I think you're probably bit harsh on some of Alcaraz's season, but I think it's just reality of the standards he's being judged to. And yes he does seem to overplay a bit. He's signed up to Laver Cup next year for the first time, so we will see how he will manage that.

yes it's because of the standard he's being judged. Obviously, his peak is insanely good. But he's having more bad matches than Roger, Rafa and Novak had in their prime.

I mean tbf, Roger and Djokovic hadn't even won their first slams at Alcaraz's current age right? I think Djokovic won his 1st around this age? But it took years for him to be consistent after that, as went through that mugging period soon after winning his first slam (messing about with his serve etc.).

Fair enough.

The Carlos roar as he takes the first set !

Nov 13, 2023 -- 12:07PM, n88uk wrote:

Honestly think Zverev is significant value today, Alcaraz has been awful recently, and has no real pedigree indoors.

Aw bummer, the unicode thumbs up emoji doesn't work here the way some other unicode emojis work.

It was actually quite bad how Alcaraz fell away tbh. At the end of the 1st set Alcaraz looked in total control and Zverev was having big trouble with his forehand looking awful, and then after having a chance to break in 1st game of 2nd set it felt like Alcaraz basically just gifted the rest of the match from that point with pretty poor tennis.

I also thought Zverev had kinda blown it after the 1st set tbh, as it felt like he'd missed his chance, blew that 0-40 at 3-3 pretty meekly, and by the end of the set seemed to be falling apart himself.

Wouldn't be surprised if Alcaraz goes 0-3 anyway with what we saw today.

The ATP Finals are stupid anyway. There is a reason they used to be known under the acronym WTF (and it took the ATP way too long to change it away from that).

why you so mad? The Germug won.

It was Carlitos in bad mode again for sure. Far from the beast we have seen in parts over the last few years.

Rublev in tears - not nice to see !

Sabine Lisicki @sabinelisicki
First title since knee reconstruction surgery which has been almost exactly 3 years ago. The odds were against me to ever play pro tennis again, yet 19 months of brutal rehab, training, believing and here we are. We made it. We won in Calgary!

Wimbledon awaits ! Bartoli and Woz and Konta stand in her way !

and about 200 ranking places still

Relax. She just won a very competitive 60k in style. Brutal drop shot repetition to melt Hovde's mind.
If she maintains that, no injuries she's 100% getting a wild card for SW19.

Unless she manages to amass a lot of points in half a season, she will need that wild card too because those damn German tournaments are keeping her from playing qualies for Wimbledon.

that's a lot of ifs. Don't see Wimbledon giving her a WC unless she wins one of the Grass 250's/500's in week 1 or 2 of the grass season. She's unlikely to get a WC to 's-Hertogenbosch, Nottingham or Birmingham so that leaves Berlin. That's a small window of opportunities.

Too much cynicism! At least RMB's cynicism was quite witty.

we can revisit in July. Sabine just having had her one tournament per year when she plays fairly well won't change much imo.

Oy, she had already played fairly well in a tournament in February this year.

"Her one tournament per year" you wrote...pfft.

Speaking of that tournament: any particular reason why the woman that defeated Lisicki in Orlando, Rebecca Peterson (sometimes known as Rebekkah Pettersson), hasn't played since the US Open? Injured? Having problems getting over Iga's bakery products that were handed to her in her most recent match? Peterson has had some mental health issues before.

On Instagram she posted herself practicing and a message about seeing light at the end of the tunnel, but that can mean anything really.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzUCrvDN5Va/

on average ... I do count the Orlando one as a good tournament. It does feel like a year ago, but it is 9 months.

sounds like an injury. But of course journalists never write about Rebecca

I'm not entirely sure because ITF streams are usually stationary cameras and you can't hear everything, but I think Adithya Karunaratne just did a most remarkable thing.

She was serving at 2-6,5*-6, 30all and hit what, to me, looked like a ball that was long. Karunaratne was on the lower end, so her shot was near/beyond the far end baseline. However, the umpire called it good and gave the point to Karunaratne. Her opponent argued it was out by quite a bit. I think, in passing, Karunaratne then told the umpire it was indeed long and the call was changed - setting up match point for the Indian's opponent.

The norm is for players to stay squeaky silent in such situations even if they themselves are probably convinced they had hit a shot that was out.

And especially if it's such a big point instead of them being in a comfortable lead.

Bartunkova just lost a set in which she won 100% of her first serve points. Problem is - she only got the first serve into the required area in 7 of 28 attempts and on the second serve her double fault issues persist.

Playing indoors makes the serve percentage particularly depressing.

I was kinda thinking Tsitsipas was a big price lol, even though I'd heard the injury rumours, guess I know why he was that price now (albeit irrelevant betting wise anyway).

Nov 14, 2023 -- 2:01PM, edy wrote:

Bartunkova just lost a set in which she won 100% of her first serve points. Problem is - she only got the first serve into the required area in 7 of 28 attempts and on the second serve her double fault issues persist.

Her serve percentage improved in the second set. From 7/28 to 8/28.

One of the two took a medical timeout after the first set, but I couldn't be bothered to turn on the stream. Maybe Bartunkova was suffering from an injury that affected her getting serves in.

GET OUTTA HERE!

Just noticed the umpire's chair in Turin. That's some clever marketing.

https://twitter.com/tennis_inmyhead/status/1724443091661144150
classic Dominic Thiem humor.

"José Morgado
@josemorgado
·
8m
“A revision to today's practice schedule. Novak Djokovic is now no longer practicing today.”

let the ramping start

Anisimova is said to have entered Hobart and the AO.

https://twitter.com/OpenCourt/status/1724445588815532441

NID

If only you guys had bought her paintings.

She is bound to have more than enough money to buy some paintings herself if she wants them.

I didn't buy her paintings because I want her back on the tennis courts.

What a muggy TB this is.

G Maristany Zuleta de Reales rising!

https://twitter.com/BJKCup/status/1725146309424738570
clip of the one edy calls Soccer Mom

https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/17vvh3k/til_rublev_was_out_injured_for_some_of_2019_after/

Unlike what the URL suggests, the above is a clip of Rublev hurting himself last night and drawing blood when he (yet again) chose to hit himself with his racquet.

https://twitter.com/TennisChannel/status/1724918586186100926

Andy Roddick and Nick Kyrgios weren't entirely impressed by it.

Nov 16, 2023 -- 1:44PM, SamuelMertensBertens wrote:

https://twitter.com/BJKCup/status/1725146309424738570clip of the one edy calls Soccer Mom

hot

Astonishingly Rublev has never retired in a match and he's obviously played tons of matches.

What I'd like to know. Do you guys know more about the 2019 accident that commentars allude to in the clip on reddit? Looking at his results I'm made to believe he did it after his loss to Monteiro in Munich (he was out for a bunch of weeks after that and missed Roland Garros), but I can't find information about it in either German or English. Rublev was just a random barely top100 player then (although with a promising junior career)

if alcaraz wins v medvedev, does that mean he is thru regardless of what happens zverev v rublev?

or if alcaraz wins 2-1 but zverev win 2-0..........what happens then?.........the table is based on sets on right........please help

The website of the ATP Finals has a scenarios website which hopefully answers your question (not checked for validity, but one should hopefully be able to trust the ATP to not make errors on this)

https://www.nittoatpfinals.com/en/scores-centre/scenarios

Singles Red Group qualification scenarios after the completion of the 2nd round of the event's group stage:

1) Regardless of score, if C. ALCARAZ defeats D. MEDVEDEV and A. RUBLEV defeats A. ZVEREV, then C. ALCARAZ wins the group and D. MEDVEDEV qualifies 2nd.

2) Regardless of score, if D. MEDVEDEV defeats C. ALCARAZ and A. RUBLEV defeats A. ZVEREV, then D. MEDVEDEV wins the group and C. ALCARAZ qualifies 2nd.

3) Regardless of score, if D. MEDVEDEV defeats C. ALCARAZ and A. ZVEREV defeats A. RUBLEV, then D. MEDVEDEV wins the group and A. ZVEREV qualifies 2nd.

4) If C. ALCARAZ defeats D. MEDVEDEV in 2 sets and A. ZVEREV defeats A. RUBLEV in 2 sets, then C. ALCARAZ wins the group and D. MEDVEDEV qualifies 2nd.

5) If C. ALCARAZ defeats D. MEDVEDEV in 2 sets and A. ZVEREV defeats A. RUBLEV in 3 sets, then C. ALCARAZ wins the group and D. MEDVEDEV qualifies 2nd.

6) If C. ALCARAZ defeats D. MEDVEDEV in 3 sets and A. ZVEREV defeats A. RUBLEV in 2 sets, then D. MEDVEDEV wins the group and C. ALCARAZ qualifies 2nd.

7) If C. ALCARAZ defeats D. MEDVEDEV in 3 sets and A. ZVEREV defeats A. RUBLEV in 3 sets, then D. MEDVEDEV wins the group and C. ALCARAZ qualifies 2nd.

“I’m well, training, and happy,” said the 22-time Grand Slam champion on Wednesday afternoon in Barcelona. “I’m at a good stage of my life. Until now I didn’t know if I would play tennis again someday, and now I genuinely believe I will. I’m still not ready to say when, but I’m able to train increasingly longer, and the progress is good,” he explained.

more at: https://www.atptour.com/en/news/nadal-recovery-november-2023

Fresh in regarding Rafa

he also said he wouldn't win more Slams than Novak, so I take it that means there's a good chance he'll at least tie him by winning another RG. Unless Novak wins AO as expected, then obviously no chance for even that.

Doesn't matter. He will still be the BOAT.

Siñner loses this he knocks Djoko out

What a mug Sinner.

Darren Cahill should have had a word.

Was Cahill Halep's coach in 2014 too?

no

but he should be familiar with her scenario

it's good that Novak and Sinner progressed. Having Rune qualify due to beating an injured Tsitsipas and a tanking Sinner would have been lame.

Halep worked unofficially with Cahill for years before it became official via the Adidas Player Support Programme as it was at the time.

then I'm not sure.

Wimbledon might come off looking super shrewd by putting Alcaraz and Sinner on that painting.

Predicting them as the next big guys was hardly difficult at this years Wimbledon was it.

That's what Eurosport thought when they predicted Dimitrov and Paire to be #1 and #2 respectively in 2019.

But that was a far less certain prediction when it was made, Alcaraz was already #1 when they did that painting, Sinner was what, about #8?

They had done nothing on grass at the time and while Alcaraz was a no-brainer it was a rather brave shout to have Sinner on there.

So is NK now bedded in to a new life as a commentator? He did a Wild World of Sports interview a couple of weeks ago where he simplified his ambitions in the sport. 'I want to just be able to say I won one grand slam, singles, before I retire. I think that's really driving me. I was so close, I was two sets away. I guess that's what's driving me.'

The rest of the interview was standard NK nonsense about still being in his prime and one of the best in the world etc but then extensively focused on his ongoing knee issues. His commentating has gone down well, he's entertaining and not shy of sharing his opinions. Maybe the warmth of the studio will be hard to resist.

Not in your prime if you can't move and bend down anymore imo.

Daniela is so cute when she does whispering commentary during play.

https://www.tennisforum.com/threads/takasaki%F0%9F%87%AF%F0%9F%87%B5-w100-final-yue-yuan%F0%9F%87%A8%F0%9F%87%B3-d-harriet-dart%F0%9F%87%AC%F0%9F%87%A7-5-7-7-5-6-0.1409777/

Harriet Dart must be real mad she didn't get to win this trophy today.

she saw it at the end of set 2.

The first sign of Christmas approaching = Diane Parry remembering how to vulture properly.

Harriet Dart must be real mad she didn't get to win this trophy today.

At least it's big. I'd rather win that than the glorified glass flower pot that Leylah won in Hong Kong.

is it inflatable? With rent/housing prices being what they are in London, you might be better of with a glass flower pot.

Don't think it's inflatable, but the way she holds it, it must still be pretty light. I think modern darumas are typically made of Papier-mâché.

good thing a Chinese player won it then. Sounds like a nightmare to bring that on a flight.

Mike Dickson @Mike_Dickson_DM
·2m
That wraps up Amazon Prime's stint of tennis coverage in the UK. Most would judge it a good (and affordable) service for those making the effort to find it. Sky likely to confirm its takeover in the coming week or so.

Personally glad to see the back of Amazon Prime and get tennis back to proper coverage. For traders it was useless - so far behind the play. I basically had stopped watching tennis outside of the majors.

Besides streaming just never looks right in terms of picture quality.

They made Daniela cry showing highlights from their five year run.

In the Florianapolis WTA125 qualification match between Conny Perrin and Sada Nahimana they called a foot fault (the only I saw, but I didn't watch for long) on Nahimana when she served a second serve at 4-6,4*-5, 30-40. Pretty damn sure that second serve was out anyway and she would have sealed the match with a "normal" double fault even without the called foot fault, but....that's a big moment to call a foot fault.

if it's a foot fault it's a foot fault. Hawk-eye live doesn't take score into consideration and neither should humans.

I know, but I feel the average human line judge will be careful to call foot faults on such occasions, just like umpires aren't completely consistent with when and who they call e.g. time delays on.

I know, but I feel the average human line judge will be careful to call foot faults on such occasions

That offers up an edge so I agree with caramba. This is one area where handing over control to technology is going to be an improvement. Technology will eventually be able to properly discipline strategic use of missed ball tosses to break an opponent's rhythm etc.

Hopefully it will expand to include shoe sqeaking faults and make them retrospective.

On the subject of Daniela I will always tip the hat to Prime for their Daniela day at Indian wells where her unbeaten tally of titles was celebrated by Navratilova and Rusedski.