Tennis Talk 2023: Vol 37 (Cancun, Paris)

It's because people's patience with WTA has long run thin, it's been a total shambles from them pretty much since the pandemic.

It's also noteworthy that players speaking out has made the news, the event would have barely made the news otherwise, but players complaining has been on the news.

yeah, doesn't Ben know controversy creates cash!

It also appears this is just part of a much bigger picture of unrest behind the scenes in WTA too from what we read. It's said the WTA was ignoring letter from the players, that is probably why they're going public too, as it forces the WTA's hand more.

yeah, and players being given instructions on what to say on Saudi etc. And this then being leaked

feels like WTA has been a **** show since I've been paying attention, from Stacey saying out to China to all the issues in the Steve Simon era. Was it better run in the early 00's or they were just lucky with having so many stars?

This new schedule (which as ever I assume is not out, just another shambles ofc) next year is going to be interesting how it goes down, as seems murmurs on it too. It is claimed there's going to be more ITF's, more 125's, but believe it when you see it.

One change that's not going down well is they have massively decreased points at ITF's, 125's, basically the events award points equal to their name/prize money now, so 125, awards 125 for winner (used to be 160), an ITF $35k that used to be $25k awards 35 points, the $25ks were awarding 50 points to winner. On face of it this is going to make it much harder to break on to tour, especially when you combine it with the tour change of less 250s, and more 500s, that will mean lots of weak 500s awarding lots of points for winning like 1 match.

The Stacey era was actually much better run than this era though, mistakes were made, but it was much better run than what we've seen recently.

If the above change on points btw isn't also combined with way more like $100k's at ITF level, it's hard to see how it isn't an awful idea, as many weeks right now you will get like 1 decent ITF, and a bunch of $25k's, if it remains like that, yes you're doomed pretty much trying to breakout from lower levels.

Though I guess you will see changes in players being more willing to go play WTA qualifying than ITF's.

Nov 2, 2023 -- 2:28AM, n88uk wrote:

The Stacey era was actually much better run than this era though, mistakes were made, but it was much better run than what we've seen recently.

Sure, but some of the issues today dates back to Stacey becoming to reliant in China, no? As in both the messes with WTA Finals last year and this could have been avoided if not for that contract with Shenzhen.

Ons is sad about the situation in the world We all are.

Stacey actually had ideas, and implemented things, what have the current lot actually done? The only good change basically is getting rid of international, premier 5, premier mandatory branding, I can't think of a single good other change.

The prize money has barely gone up since Stacey left, who raised it significantly. If you account for inflation it's actually down at most levels bar like IW, Miami style events.

Krasny trying to steer the interview into tennis, but Ons wouldn't have it.

Nov 2, 2023 -- 1:17AM, Angela Rebecchi wrote:

They do have a kid together. Totally agree SMB. Just going on gut instinct. Seems a really nice kid. Can't see it myself but you never know.

he seems like he's quite easy to wind up. can imagine a manipulative girlfriend would have a field day pushing his buttons

The Shenzhen contract was absurd though, easy to see why WTA signed it, they put up prize money ridiculously, no-one was going to match that offer, given it was more than ATP Tour Finals were paying at the time. They were very unlucky with covid killing it, though I really don't understand how a WTA contract works, as it can't be very binding, as how has Shenzhen (and Wuhan too which had a 10 year deal) got out of their commitments, it suggests the contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on so what's the point?

I also don't think that excuses the shambles of the last 2 years. You could excuse before that with how the pandemic was at the time, and the calendars being very makeshift (albeit all evidence suggests WTA handled that terribly too with talks of them making it too hard for venues to put on events that actively wanted to), the last 2 years have just been a shambles with no excuses.

even Ons is saying WTA are mugs here

ok, the Simon era is far worse. How they handled the pandemic was so bad. Season shut down after Roland Garros

I don't see him lasting much longer tbh, not sure when his contract is up, but I expect him gone within a couple of years. Quite obvious many of the players are against him at this point.

Also he's just never come across as passionate for the product at all, as opposed to Stacey. And his business acumen has been shown up as pretty crap too these last few years.

Oct 31, 2023 -- 4:22AM, wisewords wrote:

Steve Simon OUT!

!!

Nov 2, 2023 -- 2:05AM, SamuelMertensBertens wrote:

Is Marketa injured or just hating the conditions? Seen some grimacing from her.

Our Wimbledon champion's feelings about Cancun!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F96VaG8W4AACDgz?format=jpg&name=small

old photo of Gael
https://twitter.com/marcos_z/status/1719824381600264660

Casper Ruud @CasperRuud98
Bravo @atptour way to help one of the best players in the world recover and be as ready as possible when he finished his previous match at 2:37 am this morning 14,5 hours to recover.. what a joke

Casper can get invested into bettering the tour and fighting for his colleagues now that he is out of tournaments by the end of Tuesday each week.

you can mock him all you want, he'll play another Slam final in June next year.

But the timing is funny, because yesterday I was gonna say one difference between ATP and WTA is that if the men had an issue like the women do with Cancun, they would handle it in private, and then Casper goes and do this.

Sinner withdrew.

The men, prior to Ruud, have had their publically voiced issues this season as well. Primarily also the frequent change of balls between tournaments instead of playing at least a few weeks at a time with the same ball.

Stef injured mid game (knee, getting the trainer now)

I wasn't even particularly quick, but got a 1.53 lay in. Went to 1.80 shortly afterwards. Only small sums though, not my style to go big on things like that unless it's a Mary Pierce type situation.

Sinner withdrawn.

https://twitter.com/el_fredinho/status/1719903999967535263

Need edy's hipster expertise on this.

Jannik Sinner
@janniksin
Sono dispiaciuto di annunciare che mi ritiro della partita di oggi a Bercy. Ho finito il match quando erano quasi le 3 del mattino e sono andato a letto solo qualche ora più tardi. Avevo meno di 12 ore per riposarmi e preparare la prossima partita.
Translated from Italian by
I am sorry to announce that I am withdrawing from today's match in Bercy. I finished the match when it was almost 3 in the morning and didn't go to bed until a few hours later. I had less than 12 hours to rest and prepare for the next game.


Jannik Sinner
@janniksin
Devo prendere la decisione giusta per la mia salute e il mio corpo.

Le settimane a venire con le ATP Finals in casa  e la Coppa Davis saranno importantissime, ora mi concentro sulla preparazione di questi importanti eventi. Ci vediamo a Torino! Forza!
Translated from Italian by
I have to make the right decision for my health and my body.

The weeks ahead with the ATP Finals at home and the Davis Cup will be very important, now I focus on preparing for these important events. See you in Turin! Force!

and now we're gonna get a break in play for 3 hrs in Paris

Marta seems young to be getting married but I suppose she's spent the year observing the fleeting nature of life so is getting on with it.

Marketa needs to leave the shot firing to the fake big 3. It's one thing they seem to be very good at.

They're not so good at beating jpeg and stuff

Novak providing opportunities again. Tallon traded at 1.3x

Oct 29, 2023 -- 10:52PM, edy wrote:

Opelka is in the draw for the Charlottesville challenger that is starting tomorrow for what would be his first tournament since August last year.

Was broken from 40-0 in his opening service game against Sandgren yesterday evening, but still managed to win in straight sets. Even won the first set by a break, meaning he broke twice in a single set. Something that might well have been a first for Opelka indoors.

oh no, Daniela says she broke a racquet as a kid and as a result she couldn't play tennis for a few months because her parents couldn't afford a new one. At least this taught her a lesson and she didn't do it again.
Also, apparently the person I'm not allowed to call Maria S was almost defauled today which would have meant 0 USD and O ranking points from her Cancun adventure. Now that would have been something.

oh there is a cool sit-down interview with Emma conducted by Laura on Prime now!

Laura just did a cackle when ball girl was fighting her hardest to keep the umbrella up for Sabalenka.

Wuhan 1000 apparently back in 2024, getting the spot back from Guadalajara.

Belinda unlikely to defend her Olympic gold!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9_9cMrXYAAwsLB?format=jpg&name=small

Nov 3, 2023 -- 3:04AM, SamuelMertensBertens wrote:

Laura just did a cackle when ball girl was fighting her hardest to keep the umbrella up for Sabalenka.

it was at this:
https://twitter.com/FS_Tennis1/status/1720299246430425282

I have to be up for cricket these weeks, so I can't always stay up for all of Cancun, but whenever I tune in it's been a great mix between comedy and tragedy.

Long feature about Zverev and Patea (mother of his child, reason behind the recent penalty order) today. Main points:

- Zverev is (or was during their relationship) allegedly very jealous and controlling. Allegedly looking through her phone, likes and all that stuff, which was part of a cycle of allegedly harmony, arguments and violence.
- The specific event the penalty order is about is regarding him allegedly pushing Patea to a wall one night and him having his hand allegedly on her throat in a violent way.
- as part of the child support legal battle, Zverev and his lawyers offered her a contract with decent payment, the ability to live in one of his houses, but also with substantive NDA content regarding everything concerning their relationship and the child. It also allegedly contained a clause that prohibited Patea to make contact with Sharypova (the other woman who had come forward with allegations of domestic abuse)
- Zverev doesn't like when you move his plushies

https://archive.ph/151re

thanks.

Was a bit weird when the producer zoomed in on a little girl with a sign that said "I love you Sascha" during his match yesterday.

That's something I saw somewhat mentioned on reddit too the other day. In a thread about the penalty order, people were not thrilled with the amounts of particularly women with Zverev loving signs at tournaments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/17me8fr/mackies_instagram_story/

麦当劳 with a dig at Sinner.

Opelka gave a walkover before what would have been the 2nd match of his comeback. Reason given is "Right Arm" though and not the hip that had kept him out so long

Nov 2, 2023 -- 4:42PM, Journeyman wrote:

They're not so good at beating jpeg and stuff

Did Jess as member of the player council decide to send everyone to Cancun because she knew she (and Iga) would be the only ones not rattled by the silly conditions?

Most definitely.

Goffin took a MTO at 3*-4 in the first set after Molcan had broken back for 3-3 and then won his own service game to go into the lead. Goffin went on to win 12 of the next 14 points, twice breaking to love to go up a set and a break.

16 of the next 19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgQ5pWj4HPA

Taylor Swift or Shakespeare? WTA stars guess who said what

Quite scandalous to do this without Iga.

Goffin sold some serious goods to Molcan 1.3 backers

Just found Sabine Lisicki's name while going through next week's ITF acceptance lists. She is scheduled to appear in the W60 Calgary as of now.

Nov 3, 2023 -- 5:16PM, edy wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgQ5pWj4HPATaylor Swift or Shakespeare? WTA stars guess who said whatQuite scandalous to do this without Iga.

She compiled the quiz imo.

Nov 3, 2023 -- 8:21PM, edy wrote:

Just found Sabine Lisicki's name while going through next week's ITF acceptance lists. She is scheduled to appear in the W60 Calgary as of now.

wow, I knew about this hipster news before you.

Xinyu Wang was physically assaulted and possibly injured

https://www.tennisforum.com/threads/the-2023-off-court-pictures-thread-inc-retired-players-%F0%9F%93%B8.1399143/page-414#post-84546684

.

I don't know when exactly that clip was taken, but there is an instagram post of hers dated september 18 with the same clothes and in a similar environment.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CxVboJWv-sF/

In the tournaments that followed that assault, she then sported very heavy taping on the affected body part.

While semis are going on in Paris, Tom Paris play qualifying in Metz.

Not related to star ship Voyager's Tom Paris....I think.

By edy on 11 Jun 23 13:59
A starfleet officer from the Voyager, Tom Paris, caused a big upset in the Lyon qualies today.

Seems to like an upset in french ATP tournament qualies. He even followed that match up with another upset win in the next qualies match a day later.

Novak busts Rublev 1.3 ! Been a license to print money this week

The Metz Open twitter account sounds like Peter Gojowski played the final match of his career today.

https://twitter.com/MoselleOpen/status/1720893027328160052

.

I also learned that former top 36 player and Jack Sock defeater Yuichi Sugita retired earlier this year.

what could have been!

Daria Kasatkina @DKasatkina
The saddest thing about not going to Cancun this year is that we cannot show you what’s going on there in our vlog

Should have gone as a fan on her own expense.

https://twitter.com/hsangelus/status/1721174344917729477

Bayern Munich tor music is perfect for this.

Play has resumed !

Cancun not a shambles today. Aside from the DJ who played Maniac from Flashdance when Iga was serving, got a death scare from Cicak (Iga got a new 1st serve in the end). No rain, no wind to speak of and we got good quality tennis as a result.
Let's keep this thread active until Cancun is over. I'll start next week's (BJK Cup and ATP mug stuff on Tuesday or so).

Ellen Perez @EllenPerez95
Anyone got a private jet and want to fly me from Cancun to Seville tomorrow night to make it in time for BJKC Tuesday 10am match. Really not impressed with this scheduling disaster. Why do I have to be punished for this

I love how everyone is trolling WTA so hard.
This is from Team Czechia's press conference.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-PyBZXXgAA987-?format=jpg&name=900x900

It's time for JM's favorite topic again!

Tennis Talk 2023: Vol 21 (Wimbledon)
By SamuelMertensBertens on 8 Jul 23 17:48
Most famous players in UK, including retired players1) Serena Williams2) Venus Williams3) Sue Barker4) Maria Sharapova5) Emma Raducanu6) Martina Navratilova7) Steffi Graf8) Billie Jean King9) Virginia Wade10) Naomi Osaka

With Annabel Croft having been featured heavily on BBC Strictly Come Dancing, does she crack the top 10?

1) Serena Williams
2) Emma Raducanu
3) Martina Navratilova
4) The real non-clickbait Maria S
5) Sue Barker
6) Virginia Wade
7) BJK
8) Steffi Graf
9) Chis Evert
10 = Annabel Croft
10 = Hevva Watson

Annabel Croft a good shout as despite limited achievements she became known in an era with no internet so was considerably more famous to bus drivers than Boulter is now.

I've moved BJK up my list a bit due to her commitment to keeping herself in the public eye.

Honourable mentions.

18. Naomi Osaka
27. Laura 'fascinating fact' Robson
39. Sam Smith
99. The Burrage

Laura would be a big hit if she went on some mainstream show imo, but for now she's mostly known within tennis circles and having had a very short active career doesn't help.

Yeah she's okay. At least she does her homework. Also there would definitely have been a fight over who got her as a flag (if flags had existed back in the day).

The Prime commentary on the Jpeg v Coco match was ludicrous, repeatedly making the case Jess is able to make her main breakthrough and fulfil her ambitions here. It's nonsense.

I think it's all about slams for JPeg. Coming from a background of buy-anything wealth, but a slam can not be bought and she can take that to the family 'I bring you the unbuyable'.
That is the target imvho. Not winning this compromised Cancun tournament in Pat Sharp funhouse conditions.

Didn't hear that, I've missed most of this event due to the time zone and constant rain delays. Don't think it's any top player's ambition to win a WTA finals, a Slam is what you want to win. I do think winning a big title can be a big confidence boost in your way to winning your first Slam though, like how winning the Olympics was for Andy Murray.

Iga's surely far too short. Jpeg should get this done. She is the calm in the chaos.

* the swirling chaos

Omg LVA

That's not the sound of a possum in the attic! It's edy running up and down the stairs in excitement as van Assche hauls the final set back from 5-2 down with patience, guile and bottle.

* final set tie break

jess getting slaughtered.

Prime commentator talking about the money on offer being a factor.

They refuse to provide sane commentary on a Jpeg match.

the way swiatek dominates her rivals, one wonders how does she ever lose a match. she is so superior to the rest of them, how on earth does she not win every tournament she plays. she is relentless. never seen a player lie her.

Laura Robson sounds in absolute shock.

The biggest trashing of one top 5 player by another in a final that will happen in my lifetime.

Iga smiling and dancing in her seat after Goating.

Do NOT let Carlos watch this match!

The preentation ceremony is going to be longer than the match.

Journeyman • November 6, 2023 7:15 PM GMT
Iga's surely far too short. Jpeg should get this done. She is the calm in the chaos.


A truly terrible call. The conditions were completely different though.

Is there any way the Pegula family can pay for a two week hurricane in Melbourne and no roof.

That was an absolute beat down !

The awfully one-sided semis and finals make this officially the worst WTA finals ever as if that title was ever up for debate. When do they announce Saudi? I say during a week with lots of other things going on so it gets buried in the news. And when does Steve Simon go?

the wta finals should be merged with the atp finals. they get very poor crowds at the womens finals events.