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Wesdag
10 Sep 18 14:13
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Aug 09
| Topic/replies: 7,637 | Blogger: Wesdag's blog
Who's there to stop him?

Fed not getting any younger.

Rafa realistically will only win Roland Garros.

Djoker seriously competitive on all surfaces & seems to back to his best form.
Pause Switch to Standard View Djokovic soon to be the GOAT
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Report wisewords September 10, 2018 3:17 PM BST
A fresh Nadal can give him a run for his money, but I see where you're coming from. Novak was supreme in the 2nd week, especially the destructions of Nishikori in the SF and Del Potro in the F
Report Wesdag September 10, 2018 3:54 PM BST
I'm a big Rafa fan, but unless on clay, he always seems to come up short v Djoker.
Report wisewords September 10, 2018 4:13 PM BST
Everyone going into Aus Open fresh will be very interesting. The likes of Nadal and Federer were going into the US Open off the back of trying hard the full year. Maybe Federer less so with him skipping the clay season actually.

A Nadal v Djokovic final in Australia would be epic
Report Wesdag September 10, 2018 4:31 PM BST
With hopefully a different outcome to last time they met in the Aussie final.
Report mafeking September 12, 2018 12:52 PM BST
signs that the tank is starting to run empty for federer. another 4 months older surely massive at his age. been said before i know but think i'll be surprised if he wins another slam even given the utter hopelessness of the younger players
Report johnnyrant September 20, 2018 9:07 AM BST
Rafa seems to consistently break down over 2 weeks of a hard court Slam which I think makes Oz Open tough for him but would never discount him. French Open is going to be harder for him in next couple of years with the rise of Thiem plus Djokovic a factor again. For Rafa to get to 20 he's going to need to magic a Slam win somewhere else outside of RG & I think Wimbledon might be his best chance - I'm pretty sure he would have beaten Djokovic this year if the match was played outdoors. He was a victim of ridiculous Wimbledon scheduling & even more ridiculous rules of a match starting under the roof must end under the roof unless both players consent to playing it outdoors. Djokovic knew an indoor match gave him a crucial edge. Can't see Fed winning another Slam so if Djokovic can stay fit he may well end up with the most Slams out of the 3 imho.
Report Wesdag September 21, 2018 4:26 PM BST
Yep, good summary.
Report bb66 September 23, 2018 8:30 AM BST
Djoker will overtake Nadull, but not reach Fed's 20, he would have taken the most without his 2 years off track
Report n88uk September 30, 2018 12:50 PM BST
Won't be easy to catch either. Nadal will surely add to his total. Djokovic isn't that young anymore, he will have to win like 2-3 slams a year for next few years to catch them, and I think that's probably unlikely. In theory it sounds plausible, but injuries will kick in at this stage of career, he won't be super dominant like 2015 anymore imo.
Report caramba September 30, 2018 12:52 PM BST
and Thiem or Zverev could break through for real.
Report n88uk September 30, 2018 12:53 PM BST
There's also that Djokovic plays a very grinding game that relies on having super stamina to grind opponents into oblivion over his career. Much harder to do that once you start getting into your 30s consistently.
Report wisewords September 30, 2018 2:29 PM BST
Looks like Roger will hold on to the title of most slams won
Report brain dead jockeys October 11, 2018 5:22 PM BST
joko will overtake feds 20..........
Report Wallflower October 21, 2018 1:46 PM BST
Hope he does - it would be the end the GOAT discussion - most slams and winning records against both (which presumably would be extended).

May not be the majority view - but think all playing at their pinnacle, Djokovic is actually the best imo - unbeatable - years
ago I was on the wrong end of him financially and disliked him because of it. Had to come the earth-shattering conclusion in the big big games - Djoko had to be my man.
Report johnnyrant January 28, 2019 3:11 PM GMT
Fed 20, Rafa 17, Djoko 15. Only 1 winner for me from this point - Novak Grin
Report Coachbuster October 11, 2020 7:53 PM BST
the joker will have to get his skates on Mischief
Report Angoose October 11, 2020 9:17 PM BST
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Rafael Nadal is quite possibly the most ferocious competitor in the entire history of sport, he can certainly not be excluded from the discussion.

Just thank our lucky stats to have been around to witness an era of mens tennis when there have been three gladiators of sport pushing each other to greater and greater heights.
Report scandanavian_haven October 11, 2020 9:29 PM BST
He's slam record is way too top heavy, take away his best slam he has 7 slams, take away Novak's best slam Australia he has 9, take away Wimbledon from Federer and he has 12.

in fact Nadal outside of the French Open has won just 2 slams in 7 years and he didn't beat either Fed/Novak in those 2.
Report Wesdag October 12, 2020 12:32 PM BST
True.

But can you imagine what the numbers would be if there were 2 clay court slams & 1 hard court slam?
Report Coachbuster October 12, 2020 1:26 PM BST
yep ,he could argue there aren't enough Clay  Grin   


I think Djokovic will see Rafa off in atleast 3 more slams and Rafa will grab atleast one more at RG   ... but I think the gap is too big now ...   22 or 23  by Rafas retirement ? ...that record will probably last decades
Report scandanavian_haven October 12, 2020 2:56 PM BST
Federer - 8 grass, 11 hard court, 1 clay
Novak - 5 grass, 11 hard court, 1 clay
Nadal - 2 grass, 5 hard court, 13 clay

I think this shows that Federer and Djokovic are more dynamic than Nadal as they're much more accomplished across different surfaces, if there were 2 slams on clay it would further highlight Nadal's limitations. These top spin forehands are far less effective on surfaces that don't grip and shoot the ball upwards
Report SamuelMertensBertens October 12, 2020 3:00 PM BST

Oct 12, 2020 -- 7:26AM, Coachbuster wrote:


yep ,he could argue there aren't enough Clay

Report Coachbuster October 12, 2020 3:01 PM BST
has there ever been a grass court specialist ?   that's something that could hold you in good stead ...just win every single Wimbledon
Report Wesdag October 12, 2020 4:40 PM BST

Oct 12, 2020 -- 8:56AM, scandanavian_haven wrote:


Federer - 8 grass, 11 hard court, 1 clayNovak - 5 grass, 11 hard court, 1 clayNadal - 2 grass, 5 hard court, 13 clayI think this shows that Federer and Djokovic are more dynamic than Nadal as they're much more accomplished across different surfaces, if there were 2 slams on clay it would further highlight Nadal's limitations. These top spin forehands are far less effective on surfaces that don't grip and shoot the ball upwards


You might have a slight point re Joker but remember, Fed has never beaten Nadal over 5 sets on clay whereas Nadal has beaten Fed on grass & hard courts.

Report Wesdag February 22, 2021 3:11 PM GMT
Looks like Fed destined to be in 3rd spot quite soon.

At least that will quieten down the annual Federer BBC love-in called Wimbledon.
Report Wesdag June 12, 2021 5:03 PM BST
ttt
Report stu June 13, 2021 12:06 PM BST
Few years back and Djoker was dropping out of contention for consideration as a GOAT, even Murray was looking better - right back in it again now.
Report stu June 13, 2021 12:10 PM BST
Though a mad aspect is that he was actually 2-0 down in sets to a relative nobody, in this tournament where he has overcome Rafa on clay at last...Crazy
Report stu June 13, 2021 6:44 PM BST
2-0 down in another match, and still GOATing...
Report tanglefoot June 13, 2021 7:27 PM BST
Not sure how players such as Federer,Nadal,Djokovic and a year or two ago Murray,outlast younger players in the endurance stakes,although in the earlier sets they are level in tennis playing abilities
Report Baulkline June 13, 2021 7:46 PM BST
Doean't anyone on here notice how Djokovic employs his nasty gamesmanship in some matches.
It's an age old tactic of pretending you've given up trying to win the match. Only you haven't given up but you're
hoping your apponent thinks you have. And it's not just Tennis where you see it.
Report scandanavian_haven June 13, 2021 7:51 PM BST
he's now played in more slam finals than Nadal, 2 behind Federer
Report brain dead jockeys June 13, 2021 8:22 PM BST
has won 7 of last 12 grand slams......nadal 4, thiem 1............no chance of roger winning another. nearly 40. has played no tennis in 18 months.
cant see rafa winning another US or AUS......thiem, zverev, medvedev and tsitsipas can all beat him on hardcourts. however rafa has a chance at wimbledon. may seem a strange thing to say but all those players i mentioned have done nothing at wimbledon yet. rafa has reached last 2 semis there. in last 17 years no one has won wimbledon outside of novak, rafa, roger, murray........latter 2 are not contenders. so its between rafa and novak. this is novaks chance to get to 20. there is plenty of competition on hardcourts. he is not guaranteed to rack up too many more USO's or aussies.
novak has every stat to say he is greater than roger except the 20 grand slams.......more masters (36-28). better h2h (27-23).......better grand slam h2h (11-6).......4-1 in grand slam finals........more weeks at number 1..........and HE HAS DONE THIS IN A MUCH TOUGHER ERA..........roger has lost all 3 wimbledon finals v novak. so if he wanted to be the goat, he had his chance but NOVAK BEAT HIM........novak only has this final grand slam stat to get over the goat line.
by the way......novak h2h v rafa is 30-28.......but in grand slam matched its 10-7 to rafa, 5-4 in finals to rafa.......thats the only stat that rafa has over novak. novaks mix of grand slams is much better. rafa too dependent on clay. 7 of his 10 beatings of novak in grand slams matches are on clay. novak also has 5 master final wins v 0 for rafa. its 36-36 in masters titles. roger might not even be the 2nd greatest plater ever.
Report scandanavian_haven June 13, 2021 8:51 PM BST
if Novak wasn't disqualified from the US Open last year he'd be on 20 by now.
Report brain dead jockeys June 13, 2021 9:24 PM BST
scandanavian........there is plenty of competition on hardcourts and clay. wimbledon is going to be his main way of getting past 20. has won the last 2......no event last year....
Report scandanavian_haven June 13, 2021 10:10 PM BST
he's won 9 Aussie opens, all he has to do is stay fit til Rogers age and he'll sail past 20
Report stu June 14, 2021 11:28 AM BST
Baulkline13 Jun 21 18:46
Doean't anyone on here notice how Djokovic employs his nasty gamesmanship in some matches.


He does, but there's a couple of key issues with knocking him for that.

First, it's in no way illegal, he can play how he likes. Second, it can only happen when he's already been outplayed really, no point in going 2-0 down for no reason is there?
Report stu June 14, 2021 11:29 AM BST
...and I don't think his opponents usually fall for it anyway, he just naturally ups his game at these points IMO.
Report Wesdag June 14, 2021 2:02 PM BST
Great stats there bdj.

The "gamesmanship" accusation only occurs when he's played Murray. Funny that.

Weird that not maintaining an exceptionally high standard throughout a long match is talked of as gamesmanship.
Report Wallflower June 14, 2021 7:10 PM BST
Thrilled for Djokovic - if Nadal had won the French Open it was getting tricky for Djokovic to get ahead in the Grand Slam race- and I think he is the real deal genuine GOAT.

I learned the hard way many many years ago, bit of a Federer fan - intensely disliked Djokovic because he invariably cost me money as I would lean to Federer. I realised not very long after and thankfully in time - it was all about Djokovic - his best was better than either Federer or Nadal's best.

He has winning record against both, longest time at number 1 and if he wins the GS race - then its open and shut case in my view. Of course it's hard to compare generations so Laver has a case - but Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are absolutely comparable.
Report scandanavian_haven June 14, 2021 11:15 PM BST
Laver has no case, he would not make the top 50 in today's tennis.
Report brain dead jockeys June 14, 2021 11:25 PM BST
fed only won 3 slams in 2017/18 when joko was injured. joko has totally destroyed fed since 2013, winning their 6 slam meetings since then, including 4 finals. novak has raced past him in the masters series title race also. only people who think fed is the goat are the english language sports media who think wimbledon is the world championships of tennis and there is only 1 major. even joko beating fed in all 3 finals wont deter them from saying that fed has 8 wimbledons v novaks 5........well there are 4 majors and they are all equal, with the perfect mix of 2 on the neutral hardcourts and 1 on each extreme.
novak has now beaten 3 of the next generation in 3 slam finals - thiem 2020 aussie, medvedev 2021 aussie, tsitsipas 2021 french....i would put them as better players than those that fed was beating when he racked up all those slams 2003-2006.....philipoussis, hewitt, safin, roddick, gonzalez.........
joko has beaten nadal in all three masters clay finals. fed could only do this in the hamburg/madrid event. and as we know joko has beaten rafa on way to winning french. fed could not do this, losing in all 6 meetings v rafa at roland garros.
THERE IS NO ARGUEMENT FOR FED BEING THE GOAT. NONE WHATSOEVER. THE ENGLISH SPEAKING MEDIA NEED TO REPLACE THEIR LIST OF GOATS - TIGER WOODS, M ALI, DON BRADMAN, PELE, USAIN BOLT, ROGER FEDERER WITH TIGER WOODS, M ALI, DON BRADMAN, PELE, USAIN BOLT, NOVAK DJOKOVIC.
Report scandanavian_haven June 14, 2021 11:43 PM BST
Djokovic was in his prime when he started beating a 32+ year old Federer in the interest of fairness.
Report brain dead jockeys June 14, 2021 11:56 PM BST
34 year old joko is better than 34 fed......fed beat nadal only once in four mettings at aus open - 2017 when he was 36.......fed has beaten nadal in their last 7 meetings on hardcourt despite being in his late 30's.........fed at 36/37 was just as good as fed 24/25......only player that stopped him winning more grand slams in his 30's is joko..........novak beat him in below slam meetings-
2014 wimb final
2015 uso final
2015 wimb final
2016 aus semi
2019 wimb final
2020 aus semi

federer has reached 8 grand slam finals in his 30's, winning 4 v murray, nadal, cilic and cilic..........and losing 4 v NOVAK DJOKOVIC.........its very clear that fed has playec consistently brilliant from 2003-2019, but nadal but joko in particular have kicked his ass overall.........
Report scandanavian_haven June 15, 2021 12:36 AM BST
Federer had Championship point against Djokovic at Wimbledon at the age of 37, practically nothing in it in that match, physically Federer is no where near as quick as he used to be with his feet, that counts for a lot against younger players
Report brain dead jockeys June 15, 2021 12:59 AM BST
that 2019 wimb final will keep fed awake at night........there has never been a high profile match where a player lost when he should have won.

people seem to think that joko will get 25 slam plus. i dont think he will. i reckon maybe 3 more. hes 34. remember he did not win a slam from july 2016 to june 2018 - thats 2 years - due to an elbow injury. another injury like that and his career is over. nadal might win another french or wimbledon. in his last 2 wins at USO he did not have to beat fed or novak.......thiem, med, tsitsipas and zverev are getting better on hardcourts.

federer has no chance of winning another....he should retire and will at the end of this year after he turns 40. another beating by novak in a slam final will be too painful for him to keep going.
Report Wesdag July 11, 2021 2:45 PM BST
20 incoming.
Report unitedbiscuits July 11, 2021 3:18 PM BST
Plain
Report unitedbiscuits July 11, 2021 5:52 PM BST
Thought Wesdag was going to jinx him when he predicted a Djokovic victory at 5-2 up in the first set.

You have to hand it to Novak though. He has all the tools.

I never disliked him and often rooted for him on the basis that, whatever the tennis crowd wants, I want to be on the other.

But I just cannot have him as the greatest of all time because he doesn't dismiss his opponents like a god, which Federer, Natratilova, and perhaps Borg and McEnroe used to do. Rod Laver maybe but I don't remember his tennis pre the change.
Report brain dead jockeys July 11, 2021 5:53 PM BST
pretty good at dismissing federer
Report unitedbiscuits July 11, 2021 5:59 PM BST
In later life.

Of course, tennis players are not gods and time catches up with all of them.

There was something undeniable about Federer in his prime. I don't get that vibe with Djokovic.

Clearly a great player though.
Report Wesdag July 11, 2021 6:07 PM BST
Was never in doubt imo.

Berretini simply doesn't have the tools to go h2h with Djoko for 4 or 5 hours.

He always seems to find a way to win.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk July 11, 2021 6:59 PM BST
Berretini should give up gluten
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk July 11, 2021 7:02 PM BST
What price did Novak go after losing the 1st set?
I didn't watch after that. The ball bouncing on serve just got too much.
Report brain dead jockeys July 11, 2021 7:14 PM BST
1.54.........
Report Wallflower July 11, 2021 8:00 PM BST
brain dead jockeys 11 Jul 21 16:53 
pretty good at dismissing federer

--------------------------------------

Happy  Spot on.
Report Giuseppe July 12, 2021 3:06 AM BST
the three majors from the pro circuit should be included in these totals

Laver won 11 grand slam tournaments but also 8 of the pro majors

Rosewall won 8 grand slams and 15 (!) pro majors

Pancho Gonzales won 0 grand slams but 11 pro majors

there was a period in the 1960s where the pro majors had a higher standard than the amateur events
Report Giuseppe July 12, 2021 3:06 AM BST
so Rosewall is really on 23
Report Giuseppe July 12, 2021 3:07 AM BST
by the 1960s nearly all the top players were on the pro circuit

seems odd not to count them
Report Giuseppe July 12, 2021 3:12 AM BST
it's absurd to suggest winning those pro majors wasn't a big deal, or that Laver and Rosewall wouldn't have won more amateur slams if they hadn't gone pro
Report Giuseppe July 12, 2021 3:18 AM BST
Rosewall won all 9 pro majors that he entered between 1960 and 1963

Rosewall was undefeated at pro majors for four years
Report Giuseppe July 12, 2021 3:24 AM BST
correction Gonzalez won 14 majors: two amateur US Opens and 12 pro majors
Report Platini July 17, 2021 5:27 PM BST
I always think Borg is greatly underestimated in these GOAT scale arguments. The guy retired ridiculously young, and played at a time when there were really only 3 slams of note (a lot of the top players of that time hardly ever entered the Aus Open). So you have to put a "p" beside Borg's name, or a massive asterisk, imo.
Report stu July 22, 2021 8:32 AM BST
Borg was a great player, but to never win a slam on hardcourt must rule him out for GOAT...?
Report brain dead jockeys July 30, 2021 8:19 PM BST
3rd time in 4 olympics he has competed in that joko lost in semis......set up, break up.........loses. cannot believe it.
Report Giuseppe July 30, 2021 10:55 PM BST
yes Borg never winning the US Open is kind of awkward
Report brain dead jockeys July 30, 2021 11:31 PM BST
people who talk up rod laver - dont get me wrong, he is in top 5 ever - forget that he won 6 of his slams when half the best players in the world were not playing in the slams...........
the modern slam only began in 1988 when the aus open went to hardcourt........since then all the top players have played in the aus open except agassi who for some dumb reason skipped it from 1988-1994.........

borg, mac. connors didnt care about the aus open and mac and connors didnt take the french seriously.........no proper european clay court campaign........indoor tennis, wimb, and USO was the only tennis that mattered in the 1970's and early 1980's........there has been a massive shift since then to outdoor hardcourts with indian wells and miami being the most important masters events. indoor tennis is an after thought, all the players being exhausted post USO......
Report Giuseppe July 31, 2021 3:04 AM BST
Laver won 8 pro majors, and also missed several years of competing for the amateur majors
Report Giuseppe July 31, 2021 3:07 AM BST
some people think this guy was the GOAT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsworth_Vines
Report Giuseppe July 31, 2021 3:11 AM BST
Vines went to USC on a basketball scholarship, and later got bored with tennis, switching to golf where we won four pro tournaments
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk August 1, 2021 1:55 PM BST
All players of the past should be marked up due to them including gluten in their diet
As illustrated by NJ, it can be a hindrance.
Report SamuelMertensBertens August 1, 2021 9:03 PM BST
lack of gluten seems to get you anger issues though, so it probably evens out.
Report Platini August 2, 2021 1:52 PM BST
Joker illustrating yet again why he will never be revered the way Fed and Rafa are, GOAT or not.
Report SamuelMertensBertens August 2, 2021 5:11 PM BST
He got so much good publicity during the Olympics for being accomodating when other athletes asked for selfies with him, and then in the end it was back to square one for him.
Report brain dead jockeys August 3, 2021 12:50 AM BST
Will novak win the 2021 USO?..........NOT SURE. So many times he has failed here when he should have won. lost 5 finals. ouch.
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