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Iglesia
15 Jan 14 06:07
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Date Joined: 17 Nov 04
| Topic/replies: 32 | Blogger: Iglesia's blog
Has this been done?  Just saw it on the telly...

Man arrested for courtside betting in Melbourne

A man has been arrested and charged at the Australian Open for "courtsiding", a form of gambling that involves placing bets on point outcomes during a match from the side of the court.

A 22-year-old Briton was observed by police during a game on Tuesday afternoon and arrested at Melbourne Park around 5:30 p.m. local time (0630 GMT), a statement posted on the Victoria state police website said.

"He was charged with one count of engaging in conduct that would corrupt a betting outcome," the statement said, and bailed to appear before the Melbourne Magistrates' Court on Thursday.

"We will be monitoring matches for the remainder of the tournament, so if you're thinking of engaging in this kind of behaviour, think again," deputy commissioner Graham Ashton said.

http://au.eurosport.com/tennis/man-arrested-for-courtside-betting-at-australian-open_sto4089390/story.shtml

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By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 06:17
Can the public launch a class action for Central bankers manipulating investment outcomes of FX in the currency wars of late??

Can we target those manipulating interest rates as well??


With all the conflicts of interests aligned with ramping property values is it difficult to mount a similar corruption argument?

I would have thought those with a fair appreciation of the intrinsic value of assets prior to the broadside manipulations across many markets where market power is use to exploit, like the recent Germany beer scandal should have a case.


BTW, congratulations of Big Bash turnover attracting the interests of the spooks. Clearly , based on individual investment patterns possibly the governance of Big Bash regarding investment outcomes is seen to be superior to that of possibly BHP and the big 4 banks!!!Laugh


Maybe we should elect Mark Waugh as the next Reserve Bank governorGrinWhoopsSillyLaugh
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 07:49
local TV serials say apparently the person apprehended is an employee representative of UK organisation firm apparently called sporting data I think.

it sounds like he was doing a sting type con like the wire where the person must have been able to get the jump on points betting. Presumably to achieve trading gains??

anyone know anything about this 'sporting data'? Does it have a relationship with bfair?
By:
barbeverte
When: 15 Jan 14 07:56
bye bye vermin

faces 10 yrs in jail Excited

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/15/courtside-betting-man-charged-australian-open
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 08:41
presumably faces 0 years in jail.

once again there is nothing strictly criminal about this activity vis a vis corruption and fraud.

he may well be guilty of breaking some sort of betting regulation for the state/country but i'd be suprised if that wasn't a civil matter.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 08:45
over zealous police.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/num_act/caisa201320o2013448/s3.html

I struggling to find anything in principle in there that ties up with his actions and the charge.
By:
shiraz
When: 15 Jan 14 08:53
Exactly DStyle, not a criminal offence, more like a public deterrent operation.

And by the way guys it is GAOL if you actually want to use the English spelling (just saying).
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 08:55
no it's not cheating, because there is nothing sensitive or protected about this information.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 08:57
all those charges relate to corrupting the betting outcome, i.e. fixing, or running corrupt markets, which this has absolutely nothing to do with.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:01
it is cheating because he/she is not allowed to act the way he did courtside otherwise pro-traders would fill up courtside with laptops and the market would be saturated and diminish.

Really it is probably technically equivalent to a breach of the trade practices act in substance where they are using unauthorised access for financial gain.


Why don't the culprits enter the jungle and play with the real world of the big boys so the best win like the tennis players who aren't allowed to get on the juice and cheat in other waysCool
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:10
let's take the example of Eastbourne.

There are a row of terraced houses overlooking the grounds.

If I rent one of these houses with a window facing the courts and bet on matches I have a view of, am I cheating?

of course I'm not.

The score in a tennis match is not sensitive information, nor does it require any privileged access to obtain.

I may be breaking the conditions of sale of my ticket, or conditions regarding behaviour inside the venue, but critically I am not engaging in criminal behaviour, unless there is specific criminal law stating that ALL gambling at certain locations is a crime.

You have to reconcile yourself to the fact that someone will always be first.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:11
unless there is specific criminal law stating that ALL gambling or actions facilitating gambling at certain locations is a crime.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:12
actually, once the general punter knows his odds to win are not getting trimmed from those using unlawful/unfair access the tennis markets will have more integrity, more credibility , less bias which should attract greater turnover as the majority of punters will have a better chance of winning.

In particular , those in Europe and far away overseas, will have greater confidence in the AO betting markets like overseas punters do with the big bash cricketCool
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:16
actually, once the general punter knows his odds to win are not getting trimmed from those using unlawful/unfair access the tennis markets will have more integrity, more credibility , less bias which should attract greater turnover as the majority of punters will have a better chance of winning.

that's just bullshit.

courtsiding has fack all to do with the integrity of the markets.

a fundamental property of all in play markets is being aware of the timeliness of your information versus the live happenings. It has nothing to do with integrity and credibility.

the real issue remains the universal availability of timely information; you will never stop people looking to be front of the queue, all you can do is bring as many people as close to the front as possible.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:18
if you REALLY want to look at timeliness of information and integrity, the starting places are:

i. the ATP/WTA reselling their scores to enetpulse for distribution, and simultaneously imposing a substantial delay on their public scoring data.

ii. the alleged actions of broadcasting partners.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:19
Dstyle, 'the score of a tennis match is not sensitive information', are you for realLaugh The markets shift after every point based largely on the content of the previous pointCool.

I think one may find you cannot bet courtside at AO. In any case you can't gamble online in OZ live and I doubt the person courtside was on the phone

In any case the activity is a worse than card counters at a Casino because it really is like playing poker with others where the culprit knows some of the cards of their opponent others don'tCool
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:23
it's not sensitive information. it doesn't require privileged access.

that's not hard to understand is it?

yes of course it affects the market price, but that doesn't make it sensitive


I think one may find you cannot bet courtside at AO. In any case you can't gamble online in OZ live and I doubt the person courtside was on the phone


this is what i said in my opening post. he may be breaking some state/country regs regarding betting, but it doesn't matter WHAT it is he's betting on. he could have been betting on a big bash match.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:24
Dstyle I regularly see markets shift before the delayed coverage comes through. You only have to watch OZ free to air TV versus pay TV , just in Australia,to see the delay and the markets shift well before the TV signal usuallyCool

this is a win for Bfair in the long run, because if participants feel they are getting ripped the won't play ball, and liquidity will disappear except for the corporate bookies like in many markets
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:26
sensitive info has nothing to do with access. The fact the market price shift on every points result makes it sensitive just like share price info of a stock price
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:28
no no no.

I'm sitting on hi-sense watching a match. Federer vs Rajeev Ram.

Ram is 2 sets up and 4-0, 30*-00 in the third.

I get a text message asking me what the score is from a friend

Ram serves an ace just as I'm about to type the score.

I type 40-0 on my phone.

But on checking the back of my ticket, I notice that is clearly states that distribution of the scores prior to their being made available through official channels is in fact a crime, so wait 15 seconds before clicking send.

of course i don't because no such clause exists.

privileged access is the point.

you're confusing sensitive with price sensitive information, which is not the same thing.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:30
Wildone 15 Jan 14 09:24 
Dstyle I regularly see markets shift before the delayed coverage comes through. You only have to watch OZ free to air TV versus pay TV , just in Australia,to see the delay and the markets shift well before the TV signal


and?

tv is slow and delayed

so what?
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:44
D style the only sensitive I am talking about is price sensitive because that is why many trade, to extract financial gain from price sensitive movementsCool

I agree the question becomes is the current behaviour unlawful. My answer is not sure, I don't do that activity so never had to worry about it

But if you ask me if I think it is unfair , my answer is yes.

If you think Aus government are missing out on taxes of trading activities in Oz, IMO probably not just from the culprits but the effect on other traders.

IMO, if somehow the culprits escapes the law written atm, or jumps bail, in time the law will probably be devised so markets get fairer for all participants.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:47
bigger question maybe , given potential links between the two organizations via personnel , is betfair independent and/or unrelated to this other entityPlain
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:49
the problem is not that a few people are faster than everyone else; the problem is that so many people are so much slower.

people like to believe the idea that the courtsiders are the unpleasant sharks making the water too dangerous to swim in. "if only we could get rid of them it would be so much better for everyone."

but there is only one reference point and that is live. you cannot delay everyone to the same extent in an attempt to create a "fair market".

if everyone had the same timely information and it was as close to live as possible, there would be no courtsiding.

this is the only solution to the problem, castigating those who look to gain the fastest information, in its absence of being easily available to all, is a distraction.
By:
Get On MASSIVE
When: 15 Jan 14 09:50
DStyle is obviously 100% correct.

The nanosecond a point is won it is public information. Some people have the quickest methods of getting a bet on to the Betfair servers with their new found information.

If you rely on the TV, internet or Ceefax for your information that's your problem and should bet accordingly.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 09:51
Wildone 15 Jan 14 09:47 
bigger question maybe , given potential links between the two organizations via personnel , is betfair independent and/or unrelated to this other entity


excellent question. given that courtsiders are almost certainly paying super premium charge, is it in betfair's interest to take steps to address the problem?
By:
the silverback
When: 15 Jan 14 09:57
What about the official score feeds being sent in real time to bookmakers by the tennis authorities. Exactly the same thing isn't it?
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 09:59
Dstyle, the courtsider is just a guinea pig of the organization

The question is are the stakeholders of the organization absolved of the any potential corruption etc.. and are they operating true and fairly in terms of the laws and regulations.

I agree, since the big bookies have manipulated the markets, like buying fuel and other cartels my activity is smartly only sparingly these days thus the low turnoverCool
By:
slicendale
When: 15 Jan 14 10:01
Interesting thread
By:
mesmerised
When: 15 Jan 14 10:24
It's a non story that will only raise the eyebrows of non gamblers. They swamped Madrid one year and if no criminal proceedings are brought forward it's a waste of time and money even bothering to clamped it out, it's like Tom and Jerry on repeat.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 11:25
Bstyle, at the very least , the courtsider, as an employee appears to be a participant in an activity that may be construed as conducting the business of trading on Australian soil because it would be difficult to argue he was punting on a point by point bass due to the frequency of activity one may imagine.

If that was the case, one could presume, at the very least, this 'sporting data' entity would need to provide a tax return to the ATO ;for income derived from such business activity in Australia and meet other business regulations and license requirements in Australia not to mention UK. The question may become how they determine where aspects the business activity occurred. It could be argued since the activity is based on critical info sourced only from Australia, with the source of the info key, the business activity may get attached to Australia

So I think this investigation may continue for a while at minimum given national govt budget issues globally and the chasing of a group of high end punters previously in Australia over tax related queries.

Other issues that may or may not be determined as breaches or ilegal probably will follwed up, one could imagine, whether successful or not
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 11:55
Furthermore the AO tournament may have provisions that only allow entry for entertainment purposes. Conducting business activity may be deemed a breach, furthermore the live info they get from being courtside may only be used for entertainment purposes. The use of this information asset for revenue may be construed as a breach and maybe they might argue theft of intangible rights, furthermore their may be provisions for entrants bringing the tournament into disrepute like the AFL.

TBH, I think this will drag on for a while because sport is an area they have been targeting and , without being too sarcastic, it provides a lovely distraction for govt!
By:
CONER
When: 15 Jan 14 14:35
The very best of luck to him. He paid the air fare spent 24 hours getting there,paid the admission,hotel food,and much more.Well done a proper trier.
He has done nothing wrong it is there for all.
By:
DStyle
When: 15 Jan 14 15:13
These are all possibilities Wildone, but none of those possible trangressions, nor even betting in play on Australian soil, are covered by the specific charge he was arrested under.
By:
DonNo1
When: 15 Jan 14 17:46
So how many years down the line are we now and the authorities still seem to think courtsiders are a route of corruption?
By:
mesmerised
When: 15 Jan 14 18:13
Courtsiders are the fastest score service available.
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 20:16
Who is to say the organization will not be charged??

I would have thought they are more potentially in the gun barrel than the employee!

They may even argue since they are presumably trading online, based on local court-time info, that no local investors,punters can utilise because they have to use a slower phone mechanism effectively it is deemed a national security issue in terms of wealth redistribution out of Australia from punters in OZ who do not have the same advantage not to mention the probable traders probably are not paying tax for any trading activitiesCool
By:
sleepless
When: 15 Jan 14 20:38
Just more sensationalist bs from the press trying to take the moral high ground on a subject they know f all about. They are calling it a scam and a sting and trying to convince people that we have the greatest crime fighting organisations on the planet, as if we are the only ones concerned.

"In Play" betting on the gee gee's is permitted in Oz as I understand it and I am sure there would be many people at the track utilising it. I sussed it out from my computer at one stage and horses always hit 1.01 a long way from the finish line.
By:
sleepless
When: 15 Jan 14 21:20
*on the tv coverage
By:
Wildone
When: 15 Jan 14 21:22
in play over the phone is allowed but not online in OZ so effectively it sounds these probable traders are trying to circumvent the rules  to again advantage over the locals and possibly avoid tax extracting funds through the exploitation of an possible unfair unauthorized advantage which potentially diminishes Australia's national wealth and prosperity.

It is only natural the authorities are looking to protect the national interest and public from any corporate raiders using unfair practicesCool

As an Aussie punter in OZ I am happy these authorities are empowering me, through their actions, not to be a charity donating to any potential corporate parasites by me potentially accepting reduced odds!Grin
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