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siwaadupa
15 Apr 13 11:02
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Date Joined: 16 Feb 12
| Topic/replies: 766 | Blogger: siwaadupa's blog
Its pissing me off. Another tournament with big gab to coourtsider. He paying 60%(money for BF), has 40%. But only those 2 are happy. Trader at home with 50%(premium charge-as well for Betfai) and using video stream is punished. Nice week coming.

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Replies: 121
By:
lauradoom
When: 15 Apr 13 11:17
You cant be serious! thats the way it is (and always has been) no-one is making you bet, if you down like the set up dont bet... the whole idea of astute betting is to predict what is going too happen not back players based on what has just happened (injuries aside).
By:
jjjjj
When: 15 Apr 13 12:19
only 5.5 seconds delay? my bet365-stream is 7 seconds behind.
By:
siwaadupa
When: 15 Apr 13 14:37
always has been like that. But the tennis games has got fewer and fewer interests. Even courtsider not scalps that many bets as it was before. Im out. Its verrry difficult to make any penny there by trading.
By:
shiraz
When: 15 Apr 13 14:48
always has been like that. But the tennis games has got fewer and fewer interests. Even courtsider not scalps that many bets as it was before. Im out. Its verrry difficult to make any penny there by trading.

Is that English???
By:
jkopj
When: 15 Apr 13 14:53
you are right, it´s getting ridiculous, it has always been like this but lately it seems to be getting worse. it´s starting to become impossible to actually trade during matches, something should be done.
By:
;[p
When: 15 Apr 13 14:58
Somebody should donate so the traders could make money.  Lol
By:
shiraz
When: 15 Apr 13 15:03
"you are right, it´s getting ridiculous, it has always been like this but lately it seems to be getting worse. it´s starting to become impossible to actually trade during matches, something should be done."

Yes, people should adapt or perish.
By:
;[p
When: 15 Apr 13 15:03
I think bet fair need better advertising campaign in Germany and Spain and other countries. Also should maybe sponsor entry passes for coursiders so they could make money
By:
jjjjj
When: 15 Apr 13 15:11
new people do not find the exchange. betfair wants them to lose on their fixed odds products.
By:
the silverback
When: 15 Apr 13 15:13
seems worse today
By:
jkopj
When: 15 Apr 13 15:14
yes people should adapt. but fun thing is, if people like me and siwaadupa, and im sure there a lot more stop betting/trading due to the conditions that are now getting worse and worse there will be less liquidity and then courtsiders and some genius like there seem to be on this forum will also feel it.
By:
Gerbs
When: 15 Apr 13 17:35
as well as courtsiders you have the company who supplys betfair and all the other bookies with the feeds
selling a much faster feed to a select few

the delay is getting that bad since the US masters series in the last 2 months that the fast feed and courtsiders will be calling for a delay reduction or they will be fighting amongst themselves inplay as more and more wise up and stop trying to play inrunning other than at the end of games
By:
CaliforniaHereWeCome.
When: 15 Apr 13 22:59
yep gerbs is right, there is ppl getting the 'live-video-pics' much faster than others. The example are 2777 and 22222 sums...

anyway take care that master feed 1000 and 500 is delayed by purpose of 2 seconds (stream and raw satellite feed) making it more hard. Even having the biss key of the raw feed you can see 22222 company is faster...
By:
YOMOMMA
When: 15 Apr 13 23:07
It's the same in all sports, nothing you can do about it. Best thing to do is not bet in play.
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 01:15
it has to be someone in the tv crew or fast feed company, remember we saw (by accident) the fecking hawkeye operator with geek's toy open trading the match in WTA last year. CHWC is right, it is always a sec or 2 worse than normal at the 1000 series, maybe 500s too, haven't noticed them
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 01:19
or possibly ATP official, someone with access to stadium wifi
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 01:19
or wired internet
By:
Don No1
When: 16 Apr 13 01:57
' the fecking hawkeye operator with geek's toy open trading the match in WTA last year.'

Laugh I missed that, what happened exactly?
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 01:59
player challenged, went to hawkeye and instead of showing it it showed his computer with AGT open for a second before the hawkeye came up. I didn't actually see it but read the thread for the match
By:
AyersRock
When: 16 Apr 13 02:05
If i had the money i would traipse all around europe being a courtsider, what a great life and a bit of a thrill - and i wouldnt think twice about any one of you, there should be no complaints here. fairness doesnt come into it, we're all sitting here on our backsides trying to make a living paying no tax, so come off the moral high ground lads and roll with the punches, i admire theses courtsiders for their audacity and brazenness, remember in no country is it illegal

and over time it has got easier with being able to bet on smaller devices rather than being outside the court on a laptop, u can now be inside on an iphone, with the misses by the side making u look less inconspicuous if shes game

adapt or die
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 02:10
courtsiders aren't the problem really, it is that the feeds/info seem to be delayed enough for them to beat the delay (ie 5.5 sec), at normal events that doesn't happen, and from the numbers it seems to be the same guy or team at every masters event doing it. Someone with inside access with a guy at every event
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 02:16
at houston last week the feed was a bit slower too, not as slow as today but still slower than usual
By:
AyersRock
When: 16 Apr 13 02:16
there were a lorry load of courtsiders arrested in madrid in the stands few years back so its not just one guy
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 02:42
http://community.betfair.com/tennis/go/thread/view/94186/29429271/did-anybody-else-noticed#flvWelcomeHeader

hawkeye thread
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 02:46
found this too, looks like AGT but not clear at all

http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92360
By:
Latalomne
When: 16 Apr 13 09:25
In my experience, the North American stuff is always worse than the vast majority of the rest of both ATP & WTA tours. 

It was ever thus, adapt or die.
By:
DStyle
When: 16 Apr 13 09:34
AyersRock 16 Apr 13 02:16 
there were a lorry load of courtsiders arrested in madrid in the stands few years back so its not just one guy


no-one was arrested because no crime was being committed.

they were removed from the event for violating its T and Cs.

And as for all of this, it's the same complaints as always.

There is and always will be a small collection of traders whose strategy relies on being able to leave unmatched bets up which they must be able to cancel before completion of a point.

For as long as i've been on here it seems for the most part that they believe that this is the only way to make money in play, which is, of course, a complete fallacy.

There's a good line in the film Margin Call from Jeremy Irons character: "Be First. Be Smarter. Or Cheat". If you're trying to be first, or amongst the first, or use a time advantage, don't start bitching about being kicked off your flimsy pedestal without making any effort to do something about it.
By:
the silverback
When: 16 Apr 13 10:07
If correct, I would have thought the issue with the Hawkeye booth is quite serious. Opportunistic for sure but it opens serious integrity questions.

I've long suspected that insiders at TV companies take advantage of instant (?) feeds at the venue of various sporting event and can effectively trade courtside but in comfort, out of sight and with proper equipment.

I don't have a major problem with legitimate courtsiding but I do have a problem IF official partners or broadcasters are assisting people.

Can we rule out any possibility of TV companies deliberately exaggerating delays for trading reasons?

Why do the tennis authorities sell instant point by point feeds to betting companies (individuals too???? don't know) when they have so many issues with betting on the sport?

Why do the authorities allow streaming of low key events (challengers)when they are extremely wary of betting on these events?

And this super fast feed from Perform. Over time, have they slowed down the standard speed feed in order to be able to sell a faster speed feed?

And as, presumably, the official rights holders of online streaming, and if information on these forums on a faster feed is correct. Why do the authorities allow them to offer a faster service for an exclusive few when the only target audience for a faster feed is those trying to profit financially from it.
By:
jimmy69
When: 16 Apr 13 10:22
I wish people would stop complaining about this. There are plenty of chances to trade during a match.
By:
the silverback
When: 16 Apr 13 10:25
Definitely Jimmy. Couldn't possibly dispute that. With most players you can trade every point anyway on most events.

My only complaint is if official partners are knowingly aiding people looking to take advantage.
By:
jimmy69
When: 16 Apr 13 10:28
Well that is a different matter...I somehow doubt it.
By:
DStyle
When: 16 Apr 13 10:43
well it managed to get you out the woodwork james, you've been very quiet of late.
By:
DStyle
When: 16 Apr 13 10:44
as for you point silverback, there's a wealth of suspicion about gearhouse employees.

there was the case of some overheard comments some years back incriminating them.
By:
jimmy69
When: 16 Apr 13 10:54
Can't be arsed with this forum...it was FINNISHED years agoWink
By:
lurka
When: 16 Apr 13 10:54
the issue here is not that people have faster info, courtsiders will always have that and are at every event. the issue is that the delay is being beaten and that completely defeats the purpose of the delay. There are people who believe that there should be no delay at all and there is merit to that argument but if you are going to have a delay it it is there to protect people with normal info (and thus promote in-play trading, increasing liquidity and commissions for BF) and if it doesn't then it is farcical.

I wonder if traded volumes are massively lower at these events. We saw in Spain this season in football that they had to increase the delay in Spanish live matches from 8 to 9 secs as the feeds appear to have been slowed in certain Spanish stadia. People were afraid to trade in-play in spanish matches (eg massive, ridiculous hooving for barcelona last minute winner v celtic in nou camp).
By:
jimmy69
When: 16 Apr 13 10:58
How are people allowed to beat the delay?
By:
Latalomne
When: 16 Apr 13 11:06
Isn't Lurka's point that there are occasions where the fastest pictures available to the majority are insufficient to allow bets to be cancelled at the conclusion of the point?  That stops me from leaving money in match markets between points.  I don't think the suggestion is people are circumventing the delay.
By:
the silverback
When: 16 Apr 13 11:08
Hadn't heard that DStyle. Are they the production truck type people at venues, that's always where my main suspicion has been.
By:
DStyle
When: 16 Apr 13 11:16
yes silverback.
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