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five leaves left
08 Jun 13 18:59
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Date Joined: 24 Dec 05
| Topic/replies: 21,444 | Blogger: five leaves left's blog
Evening all Happy
Pause Switch to Standard View *** The BGT 2013 Final IR Thread ***
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Report Cider June 9, 2013 11:58 AM BST
That's fair game imo for the bookies myself. We need people to lose on specials so the markets keep going.
Report Henry VIII June 9, 2013 12:07 PM BST
“shocking that grown up human beings can come up with such tripe”

Well you just have cnman.

They were annoyed financially but the overall feeling wasn’t xenophobia but annoyance that such crassly manipulative rubbish from Attraction could win and annoyance at the British public for lapping it up.

But all of Attraction’s acts were crassly manipulative. This is Cowelland. You’ve got to embrace it and love it Crazy

And gain from it Happy
Report cnman June 9, 2013 12:32 PM BST
no xenophobic comments at all Henry VII? not even borderline? a select few:

"shady blokes in hungary giving out mobile phones shocker"

"Attraction won with the immigrant vote."

"attraction won on the diaspora vote "

"Hungarians win Britain's Got Talent. Bulgarians will be arriving soon. Muslims kill soldiers in the streets. This country has a deathwish."

"its a fair representation of the UK---full of immigrants :)"

"come to London..and you now see romanian immigrants everywhere / polish people / lithuanians..thats britain now ... so hungarians winning seems quite fitting"
Report Diamond_Joe_Quimby June 9, 2013 12:40 PM BST
^ LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Henry VIII June 9, 2013 12:41 PM BST
You've got to expect at least a little resistance when a people have been consigned to identity loss and non existence.
Report squares June 9, 2013 12:44 PM BST
I slated loads (probably most) of the acts - couldn't care less where they come from.  Although maybe I do after an article I saw this morning - something along the lines of with Attraction's win SCowell thinks he is joining the world together Plain.  Words fail me - if only JR was around to pass comment ;)
Report stu June 9, 2013 12:51 PM BST
Have to laugh - they don't even make the finals in two attempts on Syco shows, then we give them the gold medal.

To be fair they are talented, but I fail to understand how Cowell can say it doesn't matter where they are from

The whole brand is that it is a specific 'country' that has the talent, or why not just call it 'worlds got talent'?
Report hemsby June 9, 2013 12:57 PM BST
Nice post ahorsewithnoname Happy

Sometimes a few of us on here who are still able to get on with High St bookies,are reluctant to broadcast certain information on this forum.Nothing against anyone reading it,it's just that prices can evaporate very quickly once particular news becomes widespread.

I was also a lurker on here until approx 18 months ago.I'm serving my apprenticeship now by conversing with more experienced and better informed specials punters,and as a consequence my results are continually improving.I would urge you to join in more,and never be concerned about posting tips or opinions.Virttually everyone on here are responsible,respectful gamblers,and when "trains" or suggestions prove to be wide of the mark (as the majority of mine tend to be) the worst that usually happens is a little good natured leg-pulling.

Good luck with your betting.
Report Cider June 9, 2013 12:59 PM BST
The genre is quite common on the continent, it's new to most of us here.
Report bearcub June 9, 2013 1:05 PM BST
You should go back to lurking imo Wink
Report hemsby June 9, 2013 1:07 PM BST
At least I haven't had to change my identity yet Laugh
Report bearcub June 9, 2013 1:08 PM BST
Just watched the show back Plain

Hadn't noticed yesterday how gutted Cowell was that Attraction had won.
Report bearcub June 9, 2013 1:09 PM BST
only because Lou Love you Laugh
Report Cider June 9, 2013 1:09 PM BST
Anyone know what's happened to Fig's partner in crime, Brushy? Haven't seen him post for ages.
Report bearcub June 9, 2013 1:11 PM BST
Him and Lou disappeared at the same time Wink
Report squares June 9, 2013 1:13 PM BST
been wondering that myself.  Maybe he's been away stuck halfway up a mountain with his box brownie or something.  Thought he might be around for BGT.  Hopefully he'll be back for BB.  Army too - I hope.

Old regulars drifting away and no newbies allowed = not good Sad
Report squares June 9, 2013 1:13 PM BST
Lou was doing a bit of angling on chit chat the other day.
Report Cider June 9, 2013 1:17 PM BST
Newbies fine by me. As long they don't start off with disgraceful aftertiming Grin Got to earn your stripes first Happy
Report timbuctooth June 9, 2013 1:34 PM BST
Horse

Guilty as charged of reading every single post on this forum. Don`t we all? Or am I really the saddest of the sad?

I, too, lurked for a long time, believing I had nothing worthwhile to contribute. Over time, however, I began to realise that I had learned enough to risk adding my opinion and that, occasionally, Id say something worthwhile. As you rightly point out, this is a very friendly place, so even when I talk b0ll0x, the rebukes are mild enough. The more varied the views of posters` the better, with the proof regularly being shown in the `Who Wins? The Forum Polls` threads, which have been remarkably accurate, using the consensus of the crowds.
So, don`t be a stranger.





.At the risk of being semantic, the programme is entitled `Britain`s Got Talent`, meaning `Britain Has talent`, or `There is Talent In Britain`.It`s not called `British Born People That Have Talent`. There`s a subtle, but important, difference. Where would the xenophobes stand if Attraction had all come to live in Britain 10 years ago? Would they then be British enough? What if they all came to live there when they were one week old? Would that be British enough?

Being Irish, I`m well aware that my country has a `special relationship` with Britain on many things, allowing Irish contestants to enter these contests without suffering the same degree of xenophobia. Yet Ireland is just as much a foreign country as Hungary.

Mentioning Ireland brings up an anomaly in the thinking of the xenophobes, namely that the `Britain` in the show`s name really should be `The U.K.` After all, the nation is actually ` The U.K. of Great Britain and Northern Ireland` Does this mean that Belfast-born people should not be entering BGT?
Report stu June 9, 2013 1:42 PM BST
Old regulars drifting away and no newbies allowed = not good

They're not actually allowing any new forum members, so it's pretty impossible for these forums to get any newbies.
Report stu June 9, 2013 1:43 PM BST
Lou only ever posts in x-factor doesn't he?

Same as Army only ever posts for BB?
Report Cider June 9, 2013 1:51 PM BST
For me, that argument is for ds. Once the 'foreign' acts are considered eligible it is only a question how they will be treated by the prods, that affects the betting, prices and value. It was going to go one of two ways, Attraction could easily have been de-ramped due to their COO and they most likely would have been beat. However it suited the show to get behind them, and swing their nationality into a positive.
Report timbuctooth June 9, 2013 1:53 PM BST
As Squares says, Lou popped up on Chit Chat the other day asking his usual type question, being the same old Lou that we all love. He has, once or twice, posted on Specials subjects other than X Factor.  Likewise, Army popped up one night a few months ago, for one night only, posting about something, (not BB), that was on at the time.
Report squares June 9, 2013 2:06 PM BST
Cider, I mean BF aren't allowing new people to join the forum
Report squares June 9, 2013 2:08 PM BST
as Stu said later on
Report Cider June 9, 2013 2:12 PM BST
Yep, first time I've heard of that. Looks like the forum may be heading for 101 Sad
Report stu June 9, 2013 2:22 PM BST
Same as BF in general then Cider Sad

Owned and run by mugs
Report stu June 9, 2013 3:00 PM BST
Where would the xenophobes stand if Attraction had all come to live in Britain 10 years ago?

I think that would be fair enough - but the point is they weren't.
Report stu June 9, 2013 3:01 PM BST
or didn't should say
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 4:34 PM BST
Where would the xenophobes stand if Attraction had all come to live in Britain 10 years ago?

I would have still disliked the act and especially their performance last night.
As Henry says it wasn't xenophobia from the regulars on here last night,but annoyance that such crassly manipulative rubbish from Attraction could win and annoyance at the British public for lapping it up.
The 'tourists' that turn up for the final are a law unto themselves and I suspect most of the comments you highlight cnman came from them.
You have the same thing happening for every big final.

As for the debate over whether foreign acts should be allowed on a show called "Britain's Got Talent", I believe there's a perfectly valid argument that they shouldn't.
One I would have a great deal of sympathy with and I'm very much pro EU and believe it would be lunacy to leave it.
I wish as a country we would look far more to Europe than to the sick, deeply flawed and fractured society across the Atlantic.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 4:39 PM BST
As for Brushy. He has the same problem as many of us on here who have played these markets successfully for a number of year. He can't get on.
I think he won £7 on BGT. So he's concentrating on his photography, though does say he'll be back to annoy and insult us all for XFGrin
Report RMB © June 9, 2013 4:58 PM BST
Seems PC-ness gone wrong to label most comments against Attraction being Hungarian as xenophobic. It's Britains Got Talent, it stands to reasons that for a lot of the viewers the point of the show is to be proud of the talent Britain has. Not sure Dr Dre would like to lose a MOBO to Eminem, and that wouldn't be racist, it would be plain logic. Attraction aren't British so shouldn't be allowed to compete imho, and I won on them, so it's not money motivated.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 5:08 PM BST
It's Britains Got Talent, it stands to reasons that for a lot of the viewers the point of the show is to be proud of the talent Britain has.
Perfectly put RMB
I suspect Cowell realises it was a mistake, which is why he looked disappointed when they won.
I doubt we'll see many if any foreign acts in next years BGT
Report RMB © June 9, 2013 5:20 PM BST
Just massively damages the brand. Alot of Brits will be rightly bloody ruddy annoyed. For me and many others, I'd have loved to have seen a battle between Jack and Steve. Many a time the team have branded "you make me proud to be British", and what with the Olympics and everything, that sentiment is rawer than ever, so to diminish the USP of the brand seem madness. I think your spot on in that we won't see foreigners being pushed again. People who were dismayed by Attraction will be able to forgive and forget, but if it kept happening, a core set of viewers would definitely stop watching. I like you cnman but I think labelling such viewers as xenophonic as wild. Most of us are very liberal, but in BGT we want to see British talent, Attraction should stay in HGT, or wait for Cowells Las Vegas Worlds Got Talent, if he ever goes ahead with it (he should, it's a brilliant idea).
Report cnman June 9, 2013 5:29 PM BST
Just to clarify, I think there is a perfectly valid argument for Attraction not to be in the competition, I do not for one consider people with that view to be xenophobic.
It's for that reason those aren't the comments I highlighted, it was the other bile that was produced.

You know who the regulars are better than me FLF so I believe you it wasn't them.
Report timbuctooth June 9, 2013 5:35 PM BST
We`re getting bogged down in something that, as someone else has already said, should be on DS. So, a last couple of points before I take my leave from this argument:


RMB © 09 Jun 13 16:58   
It's Britains Got Talent, it stands to reasons that for a lot of the viewers the point of the show is to be proud of the talent Britain has.


OK, but it`s not called `British-Born People Have Talent` Leaving aside the point that it surely should read `U.K.` instead of `Britain`.

Owen Hargreaves, Bradley Wiggins, numerous members of the England cricket and rugby teams, Prince Philip, the list goes on. Not British-born, but satisfying the criteria set down by the respective governing bodies. As do Attraction. Thems the rules.


I happen to agree they were pretty dire last night.
Report RMB © June 9, 2013 5:43 PM BST
No reason why it shouldn't be discussed on here. Seems clear that the issue polarises people's views. I, and many others, don't like the fact the governing body allowed them to enter, goes against the shows spirit for me. The underlying truth is the fact it polarises opinion is clear indication it won't be done again, as TPTB aren't going to want to drive viewers away.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 5:49 PM BST
I'm not keen on non British or English people representing us at sport either Tim.
I don't follow much sport but it does grate with me that we are shipping in lots of Americans to represent us at Athletics.
I feel the same about the Africans who are running for a number of European countries.
Report downandout June 9, 2013 5:50 PM BST
I don't think the issue was that Attraction were not British as such. The disappointing thing was that they appeared to be going round various countries entering this show. If they had won this as their first entry having been living in this country for any amount of time, fair enough. Clearly, they were headhunted from overseas despite appearing in 2 other foreign versions of the show (and losing).

Also re cowell not wanting them to win, clearly all an act as RMB says. If he didn't want them, they don't go in the pimp slot. Easy.
Report RMB © June 9, 2013 5:53 PM BST
Not just losing, didn't get past the semis! If they'd lived here for 10 years and felt British I think most would have warmed to them with open arms. Clearly a Cowell plot to get them to Las Vegas with credibility much like Coolmore plotting their lesser horses in weaker Group 1s to increase their value. Cowell couldn't go to Las Vegas and say, pay shed loads for these guys in the Bellagio to perform for the next 5 years, who are they?, well they're Hungarian and German Got Talent rejects!
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 5:55 PM BST
He clearly wanted them to do well and there was no way he was going to risk them with an early slot.
2nd last has as good a record as pimp, so I still maintain he wanted Jack to win. With Attraction 2nd.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 5:56 PM BST
Why else use Cameron in their act? He's less popular than Cowell Grin
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 5:58 PM BST
If he'd put them on say 4th, I reckon they'd have finished 4th. Like Steve
Report downandout June 9, 2013 6:01 PM BST
No way! Jack was 3rd last, Luminites were 2nd last. This show of all of them has a ridiculous bias to the final act. Does no one remember the first few series when there was a crazy run through the early rounds of acts going on last always topping the vote. Probably due to the short voting window. He knew just how popular attraction were, the fact they still won fairly comfortably despite last night's tosh says it all.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 6:05 PM BST
It has a ridiculous bias to the final acts. Not necessarily the last act in the final though.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 6:07 PM BST
..and 27% was pretty poor. Many were saying they'd get over 50% of the vote
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 6:16 PM BST
The final is rather like Eurovision. Ofc not so many acts, but it feels like it with all ad breaks. People are starting to tire by the end, so just before the end is often the best place to be.
Report timbuctooth June 9, 2013 6:17 PM BST
Cowell definitely appeared disappointed that Jack hadn`t won. So why not bury Attraction in Trap 2? Why bring Steve back as the wildcard, knowing he would take at least some votes from Jack? As it turned out, Steve received 14% of the vote. If he wasn`t there, would Jack have received half of that vote? The 7% he needed to beat Attraction? Is it possible that, after seeing Attraction`s dismal effort, he changed his mind mid-show?
Report RMB © June 9, 2013 6:17 PM BST
All the evidence, to my mind and logic, has last as the pimp and 3rd last as 3rd pimp, I'd say that could have been enough for the 7% swing. 27% probably is based on the fact casuals went for Jack on the night and Attractions performance was undeniably streets poorer than their first 2, I and many others were distinctly turned off by their choice of performance.
Report downandout June 9, 2013 6:18 PM BST
The last act has the greatest bias to it. If he ever didn't want Attraction to win, they wouldn't have been put there. There is no way he actually wanted jack over attraction. Its all part of the act. We'll have to agree to disagree but the running order tells all in the show this year. By pretending he hasn't got what he wanted he just perpetuates the myth that he's not playing the public like the manipulated cretins they actually are.
Report downandout June 9, 2013 6:22 PM BST
The last thing you want on this is to read into cowell s facial expressions. We know its all an act!
Report downandout June 9, 2013 6:24 PM BST
Attraction even had an ad break before them too.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 6:24 PM BST
Do you think he wanted Pudsey or C&J last year dao? I reckon he wanted the dog. They were on 2nd last.
He clearly wanted Ronan Parkes and he was on 6th of 10.
I suspect he had doubts about the wisdom of an Attraction win after the Sun's front page and in an ideal world he would have wanted a Jack win with Attraction a plucky 2nd
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 6:25 PM BST
..and that feeling probably grew when he saw how pants Attraction were in the final.
We aren't going to agree tho dao Grin
Report downandout June 9, 2013 6:27 PM BST
One more thing, don't think that was the first time cowell had seen what was to be performed in the final. It still got massively glowing comments.
Report timbuctooth June 9, 2013 6:29 PM BST
downandout 09 Jun 13 18:24 
Attraction even had an ad break before them too.


But it`s not before your act you want the ad-break to be, it`s after.
That break was designed to help Luminites.
Report five leaves left June 9, 2013 6:34 PM BST
ofc it's mostly an act from Cowell. No one on here really believed he hated Jedward. He loved them and was apparently the one who told Louis to pick them.
As for last night. Yes, I am sure he'd seen the Attraction in the rehearsals. ofc they were going to be praised. He knows he can make money from them, but it wasn't the coronation that many expected.

He's not a great actor. He clearly wasn't acting when Jai won and I don't believe he was acting disappointed last night
Report CLYDEBANK29 June 9, 2013 7:00 PM BST
Last is the best draw for votes as long as lines are only open after the last act has performed.  The shorter the voting window the bigger the advantage and I think its less of a big deal in the final than it is a heat when people don't necessarily vote for their favourite or the one they think that deserves to win.  It's possible he wanted them to close the show as they were the act everyone was talking about and the show is bigger than the acts.  The other alternative is that he really didn't care who won and was quite happy to take the +ves from either. It's also possible and I think reasonably likely that he didn't want to be seen to be overly celebrating a foreign win.  He's a master manipulator and very PC savvy

I thought their performance on the night was good and imaginative, it just didn't pull on the heart strings.  It's a performance that was partly designed for The Royal Variety Show and Cowell may have wanted them to win purely for Royal approval.  27% to 20% means they got 35% more votes than Jack.  That's reasonably comfortable
Report Henry VIII June 9, 2013 7:50 PM BST
I agree with that Clyde.

Their performance did pull on my vomit strings but I was grateful for the evens.
Report RMB © June 9, 2013 9:21 PM BST

Jun 9, 2013 -- 12:18PM, downandout wrote:


The last act has the greatest bias to it. If he ever didn't want Attraction to win, they wouldn't have been put there. There is no way he actually wanted jack over attraction. Its all part of the act. We'll have to agree to disagree but the running order tells all in the show this year. By pretending he hasn't got what he wanted he just perpetuates the myth that he's not playing the public like the manipulated cretins they actually are.


+1

Report Danzaa June 9, 2013 10:31 PM BST
Egg thrower highlight of my evening.

Part of the act goes rogue
Steps between the contestants at the climax of the act
Great camera angles
Holding a 6 pack of eggs
A great shot
Easy on the eye

But the one thing I liked the most was the obvious pleasure she took in doing it, that huge grin for all the Zoe Alexanders or Jessica Hobsons and countless others who have been screwed over and cheated in the name of Cowell's bank balance. Genuinely epic and unlikely to ever be repeated. For me this was a huge deal and I loved it. If it were an act I would have actually voted.
Report Henry VIII June 9, 2013 10:41 PM BST
Great publicity for Cowell. He will have loved it too.
Report Danzaa June 9, 2013 10:46 PM BST
Henry, guess you were right, Attraction hit 1.5 again...
I was **** my pants last night, I really thought I'd lost, I knew Attraction wouldn't be able to top their semi-final performance but I underestimated how terrible and uninspiring their final performance would be. I'd taken one of my famous punts, stood to lose 9k if Carroll won, 11k if anyone else did. Won £1250 (reduced from 3k on the night) in the end, but it wasn't worth it, too much stress.
Report Henry VIII June 9, 2013 11:36 PM BST
I was shocked and worried last night too. And it was Attraction or nothing for me also.

It was unexpected after the security of their first 2 performances. But we all tend to overreact in these events if the final performance is a bit off or a bit unexpected. We are too critical and overanalyse. And we are cynical. I, like most on here, thought the content was awful (however skilful), but the majority of the GBP would have been a bit flattered even if they didn’t like it as much as before.

I had accepted my liability because I genuinely thought that the 1.3 all week was value. After Jack’s and their performance it wasn’t. But it had moved to evens. Which was.

I wonder if the big money laying them throughout the week was insiders who knew that their performance was risky and over the top. It’s a good thing that insiders often overreact. But we’ll never know.
Report Henry VIII June 9, 2013 11:39 PM BST
By the way, big layers would not have been able to recoup their money in the drift. Much much less was matched in the drift than had been matched at the lower prices.
Report Danzaa June 10, 2013 12:19 AM BST
I think there was a conflict with Attraction, they were criticised for not being British and their act was aimed at the very people who were never going to vote for them. They should have done their final act in the semis and their semi act in the final, they would have got 55+% of the vote with that I reckon.

Not my best BGT, or the most skillful piece of betting. My biggest letdown is that I repeatedly said that Jack Carroll was the biggest threat to Attraction and mentioned the impossibility that he would get anything but rapturous applause and adulation, he was at 8s all night, backing for £1000 at 8s and then selling off at 2.5 (not even the lowest price he went to) could have landed anyone an easy and predictable 4.5k.
Report Henry VIII June 10, 2013 1:01 AM BST
Out of the 2 top acts though the comedian is the most risky. They can always bomb, which no amount of adulation can hide.

As it happened he was less risky than Attraction but that's just hindsight.
Report Danzaa June 10, 2013 2:11 AM BST
But that's the thing, he DID bomb every time, his jokes were pretty naff and his delivery was poor - like so many child comedians on BGT before him. There have been loads of kid comedians, what did Carroll have in his comedy his predecessors didn't that was the difference between them and his 2nd place position? Nothing. He could have been doing impressions or ventriloquism as an act or whatever, doesn't matter. However compared to other semi-finalists, his stats were significantly higher.
Carroll's real act was cerebral palsy, minutes after his audition, I posted:

Cerebral Palsy comedian makes jokes about cerebral palsy, an unfunny act who's main draw is pity, sure semi-finalist.

That's all I think it was, pity, which in my mind makes it even worse.
Report Henry VIII June 10, 2013 9:02 AM BST
I don’t think it was just pity and I don't think he bombed. I liked his act. It didn’t make me laugh like Gatis Kandis did but I found it witty and clever. I much preferred him to Attraction. It was a very weak evening.
Report five leaves left June 10, 2013 10:24 AM BST
I agree Henry. He made me laugh a number of times. His CP helped his vote but he'd have done well without it.
Steve was the better act on the night but without him, Jack would have probably won
Report ahorsewithnoname June 10, 2013 1:00 PM BST
Thank you Hemsby and timbucktooth for your comments.

Like most Specials betters, I can't get on online with anyone now, but at least I don't pay PC. God knows how anyone deals with that. Of late I've resorted more and more to visiting shops but obviously you have to bet small and spread bets around as much as possible. Also, half the time I'm laughed at by the shop staff and find it embarrassing!

When down to the final 2 on Saturday, did anyone else notice the sympathetic gestures Dec was making to Jack? I knew then he hadn't won. BTW, how the hell did Natalie Holt get a box of eggs on stage with her without being noticed?!

Under Announcements - service, Betfair posted this:

Betfair Customer Services
10 Aug 12 21:19
| Topic/replies: 7,968 | Blogger: Betfair Customer Services's blog
Due to the recent disruption in the Community Forums, we have suspended all new registrations to the Community with immediate effect until further notice. We apologise for any inconvenience this causes.


Remember there were some problems the X-factor before last I think but certainly there was a lot of nonsense going on in the Football Forum hence Betfair "temporarily" stopping new Forum registrations, but I had no idea that was still the case today. You'd think they would have found a solution to this by now.
Report timbuctooth June 10, 2013 3:43 PM BST
The general belief is that they don't want to find a solution. I don't know if you've been following the news regarding betfairºs flotation and subsequent drop in the share prices? It seems the new-ish head honchos are under big pressure to revive the share price, so they are looking at all possible cost-cutting measures. Their beady eyes have fallen upon the forum, which. presumably, only costs them money. Yes, there were some shenannigans at times, primarily on the football and chit chat forums. One particularly bad day, betfair took the opportunity to announce, in effect, 'enough's enough!'
Barring a change in management, or a u-turn from the current management, the forum is destined for a long and slow death.




Horse
If you are banned/restricted in your online Specials betting, you must be doing well enough. So why doubt the validity of your opinions? You don't have to pressurise yourself by posting 'tips', just your take on things.
Report Dizzy42 June 10, 2013 4:41 PM BST
Hello to all old friends on here...

Just dropping by to see how everyone did on BGT. Sorry I wasn't able to join in on here during the semis as normal as it was during half term, but hopefully most of you made a decent profit on Attraction.

Interesting debate going on above, so I thought I'd throw my two-penneth in, for what it's worth...

Without wanting to sit on the fence, there is a lot of truth in what people say on both sides of the argument.  I don't believe Cowell necessarily wanted Attraction to win on the night - and was perhaps hoping for an upset from his preferred choice Jack - but the shadow dancers were certainly one of three or four potential winners that would have been an acceptable result.

The evidence I would cite is as follows:

Strongest semis this year (in terms of viewing audience) were always likely to be the first on Bank Holiday Monday and the last on Saturday 1st June.  As it happens the Monday audience was the highest of the week and Saturday was relatively low due to the hot weather.

Pimp slots for these two semis were Richard & Adam and Attraction.  The pimp on Semi 1 had previously finished in the top two in each of the previous six seasons, so a good reason to suggest that R&A were also strongly fancied by TPTB.

The other preferred contestants were clearly laid out to win their semis - not just Jack, but Luminites and Francine too. Interestingly, out of all five semi final winners, only Jack and Francine didn't get the pimp.

Fact is, it is very difficult to finish a show with a comedian.  They just don't offer the same dramatic climax as a dance act or singer.  We mustn't forget it is a light entertainment show - and the producers need a decent spread of acts to create a natural flow.

The six singers in the final needed to be separated, as did the three comic acts.  The running order therefore was not really a surprise - the five semi winners were the last five to perform, with the least popular (Francine) first in this group.  I would have expected Luminites to perform next, before Jack and then Richard & Adam, but otherwise it was all fairly predictable.

Attraction were leading the polls by a substantial margin - on average around 48% - but the front page of The Sun suggested to me that Cowell (through his mate Clifford) would have quite liked to see a British winner after all, not due to any malicious or xenophobic tendencies, but more for commercial reasons.  It would also have been a better result for his BGT 'brand' longer term.

You don't need the pimp to win the final of BGT - you just need to perform in the second half, and ideally in the last three.  Only two previous winners had been on stage last (others were 7, 9, 8 & 10).

Until he saw their final performance in rehearsal (distinctly lacklustre) he was probably resigned to a runaway winner. But due to the extra week gap after the semis this year, Cowell would have been able to read the negative reaction to an overseas winner building in the media and probably saw an opportunity to push another act.

Jack was that act in my view.  The only thing that seems to contradict this is the choice of Wild Card, who almost certainly took votes away from Carroll.  Yet, if rumours are to be believed, Steve wasn't Cowell's preferred choice.  He wanted Hall back - and you can obviously see why.  Perhaps we are giving too much credence to Cowell's reputation as an autocrat - he may have been happy to accept the majority view.

The fact that Attraction's lead in the vote was reduced to just 7% proves that there was a big swing against the act from Hungary.  It just wasn't enough in the end.

Remember it's not ALL down to Cowell - there is a whole production team at work.  His disappointment when Attraction won was palpable and almost certainly genuine (as Figgy says, he's not renowned for being able to disguise his emotions well).  He was probably underwhelmed at not getting his way (as happened previously with Subo and Jai).  The Top 3 would have been his preferred top three - just not necessarily in the right order. 
But it wasn't a bad result for BGT or Cowell overall.

If they hadn't wanted Attraction to win (who, let's not forget, had been the talking point all series) they wouldn't have been on last.  Equally it would have been odd (and downright wrong) to put them on in the first half to kill their chances.  The way that the act was staged (even if it was just a sickly sycophantic tribute to Britain) meant that Attraction almost HAD to be on last.  It wouldn't have worked any other way...

As many on here have speculated before with X Factor, there isn't necessarily a Chosen One, but a group of acceptable 'Chosen Ones' who are pushed to the fore.  As a master of PR, Cowell will always tune into public opinion and invariably tends to put his weight behind the most popular act in the end (hence his ramping of Attraction in his semi comments).

If the most popular act wins the final, then it stands to reason that it's a win-win for Cowell too.  Just on this occasion he'd probably have preferred to see Jack crowned the winner, with Attraction second.  Either way, Jack has plenty of commercial appeal and will almost certainly make Cowell just as much money as the winners, if not more.

Apologies for the long-winded essay...  But as it's my only post for BGT this year thanks for indulging me!
Report bearcub June 10, 2013 4:52 PM BST
bloody hell, am i supposed to read all that Wink
Report bearcub June 10, 2013 5:06 PM BST
Are  you back for BB dizzy?

Forum seems to consist of a max 10 posters most of the time
Report five leaves left June 10, 2013 5:57 PM BST
I read it all you lazy sod bear Silly
Good to see you posting Dizzy. I couldn't disagree with anything you say. My thinking is very similar.
Also agree with Tim. You should post more Horse. As bear says the more views the better for all of us.
Report bearcub June 10, 2013 6:10 PM BST
Laugh I did read it five, and i agree with all all of it

I also agree Horse should post more
Report bearcub June 10, 2013 6:11 PM BST
But if Strongbows legend don't win this race i'm giving up gambling Plain
Report bearcub June 10, 2013 6:18 PM BST
Nice when they win by 20 lengths Happy
Report five leaves left June 10, 2013 6:18 PM BST
Nice one bear
Report five leaves left June 10, 2013 6:19 PM BST
You could have posted earlier Silly
Report bearcub June 10, 2013 6:22 PM BST
Laugh I was worried Hems might see it
Report five leaves left June 10, 2013 6:27 PM BST
Laugh
Report CLYDEBANK29 June 10, 2013 7:15 PM BST
I thought Jack was very good.  He did make me laugh a bit, but tbh what I liked most was I appreciated how difficult the stuff he was doing is and how easy he made it seem and the fact that he was only 14, made me appreciate him all that more.  Some of the material was a bit lame but it was all original and there were some gems.  I appreciated his quick witted replies.  He is at least as good as some full time comedians already.

I don't agree that had Steve not been in the final it would have made any difference to the result and I don't agree it was a weak year.  I thought it was perhaps the strongest year.  The year's George Sampson, Paul Potts and Jai Reason won were all much weaker imo
Report CLYDEBANK29 June 10, 2013 7:25 PM BST
For me Attraction won primarily because people thought overall they deserved to win.  You can disect everything as much as you like and the most deserving doesn't always win reality shows but it is by far the most important determining factor imo.
Report Cider June 10, 2013 7:30 PM BST
I wrote at the time, I thought his delivery was affected by nerves, far more confident in the semi. Still excellent at his age, I stumble on telling jokes to three people. Although I gave away some profit after Attraction's disappointing final routine, Jack still needed a 'wow' moment to take advantage, like rinsing one of the judges.
Report CLYDEBANK29 June 10, 2013 7:30 PM BST
I don't subscribe either that because they were polling close to 48% they would have been expected to achieve that result in an even handed final.  They were always likely to get less votes than that polling because polling in these shows has huge biases.
Report attitude adjuster June 10, 2013 10:53 PM BST
great post dizzy

now back to homework duties SadWink
Report Dizzy42 June 11, 2013 10:23 AM BST
I really need to check in here more often... Disappointing to see that the forum has dwindled to a small band of merry regulars.

I'm trading heavily on The Voice, so I'll try to follow that thread over the next couple of weeks (if it's not a foregone conclusion already), but I've stopped playing regular BB as much since the switch to Five, only CBB.  Perhaps now they've got rid of the awful Brian and finally seen sense by putting Emma up to front the show it might become watchable again!

Horse - I was a lurker for two or three years before posting, so never fear of putting forward your opinions.  It's always a lively debate, but the specials bunch are a good hearted lot and any disagreement is mostly gentle banter.

A forum like this is only as good as its participants - and I'm guilty of dropping off for months at a time until X Factor starts again...  But it can become all consuming, so a break once in a while does me good!  But the spring / summer specials season of Eurovision / BGT / Voice / BB is a good opportunity to check back in again.

I'm sure more people (like GB and dare I say our old friend Lou) will be back in the autumn for the annual XF / SCD / IAC Fest.
Report Dizzy42 June 11, 2013 10:29 AM BST
Oh and one final point I missed off my post.  I thought it was a decent season for BGT and any of the top three would have been worthy winners IMO.  But the semi performances for Attraction, Jack and R&A were all better than the final.  Attraction in particular would have fared much better if they had saved their semi act until Saturday, so it was no surprise to see the final percentages much closer than the polls originally predicted.
Report squares June 13, 2013 8:24 AM BST
Jack Carroll on Loose Women today Confused - a week too late to be drumming up the LW vote
Report five leaves left June 13, 2013 1:11 PM BST
It didn't help Francine. Or maybe it did and she would  have been last without being on all the ITV daytime shows Laugh
Report gresty241 June 13, 2013 8:01 PM BST
does it start tonight C4/5? might have a dabble Grin
Report George Bailey June 13, 2013 8:09 PM BST
No finished last week gresty Laugh
Report timbuctooth June 13, 2013 8:12 PM BST
Surely he means BB? In which case, yes, gresty. In 45 minutes.
Report George Bailey June 13, 2013 8:16 PM BST
Yeah I knew that tim Sad
Report gresty241 June 13, 2013 8:16 PM BST
cheers, i'll see if i can make it to my remote control which will enable me to turn the tv on Cool
Report gresty241 June 13, 2013 8:17 PM BST
oh yeah BGT thread Silly
Report George Bailey June 13, 2013 8:18 PM BST

Jun 13, 2013 -- 2:16PM, gresty241 wrote:


cheers, i'll see if i can make it to my remote control which will enable me to turn the tv on


you need a wife gresty Laugh

Report gresty241 June 13, 2013 8:21 PM BST
Laugh
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