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thegiggilo
01 Apr 22 23:45
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Date Joined: 04 Aug 07
| Topic/replies: 19,240 | Blogger: thegiggilo's blog
Liang Wenbo, who is ranked 33rd in the world, was fined £1,380 and given a 12-month community order at Sheffield magistrates' court.


Liang Wenbo is ranked 33rd in the world
Professional snooker player Liang Wenbo has been fined after he was caught on CCTV hitting and kicking a woman in the street in a "sustained and deliberate" attack.

Footage captured the Chinese national and the victim in an argument in Sheffield city centre, and shows him pushing her against a wall and throwing punches towards her.ShockedShocked

Wenbo, who is ranked 33rd in the world, was fined £1,380 and given a 12-month community order at Sheffield magistrates' court for a "domestic-related assault", the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said.

A CPS spokeswoman said the alarm was raised in the early hours of 20 July last year by a 999 call from a woman who was screaming in distress.

CCTV from Charles Street in the South Yorkshire city captured Wenbo, 35, and the victim having what appeared to be an argument which culminated in Wenbo repeatedly hitting and kicking her.ShockedShocked


The spokeswoman added: "Wenbo then dragged the woman to the floor and continued his assault, despite another man trying to intervene to stop him.


"Further footage from another CCTV camera showed Wenbo pushing the woman against a wall and throwing punches towards her."




Wenbo, of Abingdon, Oxfordshire, pleaded guilty to assault by beating at a previous hearing.

Jonathan Wettreich, deputy chief prosecutor, CPS Yorkshire and Humberside, said: "Wenbo perpetrated a sustained and deliberate assault on the female victim, late at night, leaving her in great distress.

"He has pleaded guilty and been fined £1,380 and given a community order.

"This was an evidence-led prosecution. We will always pursue domestic abuse cases where our legal tests are met.

"This type of behaviour will not be tolerated and the CPS treats such cases with the utmost seriousness."

According to the World Snooker website, Wenbo turned pro in 2004 and has won one ranking title - the 2016 English Open. His highest ever world ranking is 11
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Report Latalomne October 29, 2022 3:00 PM BST
This explains why he didn't play his Q against Lines Sr the other day....  Wonder what he's accused of now?!
.
https://wst.tv/wpbsa-statement-liang-wenbo-3/
Report gjohn101 December 9, 2022 9:15 PM GMT
I guess this sheds new light on the latest Liang suspension, doesn't explicitly state it but am assuming he was done for alleged match fixing and in the meantime the 5 others have become implicated, maybe by Liang himself. Pretty grim state of affairs for the sport has to be said. Haven't seen a whole lot lately so no idea what matches could be involved or whether there'd been any whispers. Who'd be a punter, eh?

https://wst.tv/wpbsa-statement-9th-december-2022/
Report Latalomne December 9, 2022 9:25 PM GMT
Hope you're well, mate?  Long time!

Literally just clocked this myself on the Beeb:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/63920382 

Lu had some very smelly "defeat from the jaws of victory" moments in last year's CL(I), but I can't think of too much else that's aroused suspicion.  Jianbo has lost a few from big leads, seemingly completely losing all ability in the process.  Surprised Li is in there, and Bai has been very poor for a while.  Chang's been scoring well but has a really poor frame conversion rate considering.
Report Latalomne December 9, 2022 9:54 PM GMT
Just checked the H2H perms.

Chang has never played any of the other 5.
Li has played Liang several times (most recently 2021 CL(I)), Li has played Bai (2019)
Lu played Liang at the 2021 WC, Jianbo at the WST
Liang has only played Li out of the other 5
Jianbo has only played Lu
Bai has only played Li
Report gjohn101 December 9, 2022 10:04 PM GMT
Yeah, all good lats, cheers. Been away for a while so bit out of the loop at the minute, not sure if i missed much tbh. Hope all going well and still raking in the odd bit of green!

Seeing a few comments about this and that match but if you were just looking back for bad performances, you'd be suspecting over half the tour. Seems all these guys are based at dings academy, not that ding himself is implicated in any way. Though think Liang is somewhere further south or used to be anyway. Curious how his case relates to the others, that could be the key to the whole thing. More stupid young guys getting roped in and destroying their careers.
Report Latalomne December 10, 2022 9:32 AM GMT
It's been a bit more up and down than usual, TBH, mate!  Slight positive upward trend, but a worse Oct and Nov than usual - the WC definitely hasn't helped daytime liquidity!

Yeah, didn't Ronnie used to practice a lot with Liang?  Having been there a few times, mate, I've seen first hand how China "works".  The whole thing is built around back handers, and I suspect it is far too easy to find yourself in the back pocket of some quite unsavoury people; who knows how high up this goes, but it (and most of the other recent cases) is not a great advert for Chinese snooker....
Report gjohn101 December 11, 2022 7:45 PM GMT
Hopefully it picks up again mate, soccer winding down and not coming home after all might help a bit this week. Guess we'll see.

Funny was just reading an interview with Ding the day before all this broke and he was talking about how the game was actually struggling in China which I found a bit odd tbh but this hardly helps if true. And for sure, we don't know the half of what goes on behind the scenes alright. Be interesting to get more details here and maybe shed some light on what goes on and how they operate, fellas be inclined to sing if they can wangle a lighter sentence.
Report gjohn101 December 11, 2022 7:53 PM GMT
Fresh details emerging today. Chang Bingyu alleging Liang threatened him if he didn't throw a match in the British Open against Jamie Jones. Pretty extraordinary stuff this and what more to come?

https://snookerhq.com/2022/12/11/chang-bingyu-claims-liang-wenbo-threatened-him/
Report Latalomne December 11, 2022 8:17 PM GMT
That's amazing!  So the allegation (or at least Chang's understanding) is that Liang was balls deep on Jamie J!  SurprisedSurprisedSurprised  Wonder if that is the pattern throughout???

Just went back through the British Open thread.  Only meaningful post I made about that match reads:

Latalomne • September 28, 2022 8:46 PM BST
Chang blows a good chance to get back to 2-3, Jamie J does well to knock in pink and black to win 4-1.
Report Latalomne December 11, 2022 8:21 PM GMT
PS, I also read the Ding piece.  Interesting that there's so much money to be made in other versions of the game....  Snooker definitely does feel like it's approaching something of a crossroads....
Report gjohn101 December 11, 2022 9:58 PM GMT
Latalomne Joined: 20 Jul 01
Replies: 4393511 Dec 22 20:17 
That's amazing!  So the allegation (or at least Chang's understanding) is that Liang was balls deep on Jamie J!  SurprisedSurprisedSurprised  Wonder if that is the pattern throughout???

Just went back through the British Open thread.  Only meaningful post I made about that match reads:

Latalomne • September 28, 2022 8:46 PM BST
Chang blows a good chance to get back to 2-3, Jamie J does well to knock in pink and black to win 4-1


Ha, goes to show it's a piece of piss to fix a frame mate, tricky bit is getting the off table part done properly. I think the only sure thing we can say at this point is Liang is a proper wrong un and his days as a pro could well be over, should be anyway! Chang obviously trying to portray himself as a victim but that can't have been first contact, liang doesn't just ring up out of the blue telling him to throw his match against Jones. They must have had prior arrangements/previous games or whatever. And who else was Liang working with, doubt he was just putting bets on for himself. All very grisly but quite fascinating too i have to admit!
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 9:16 AM GMT
Liang has always come across as "odd" (at best), and the incident with his missus showed he was a proper nasty piece of work who isn't/wasn't desperately in control of his emotions (something which has often shown on the table).  One other thing I will say about what I saw in China is that there is a real sense of hierarchy.  "Senior figures" expect (demand) to be respected.  I remember being in a briefing with a proper mix of generations, and the guy who had been there, seen it all, done it all, stood up and just screamed at everyone else for what felt like five minutes (in Chinese - the non-natives all just sat there looking at one another and thinking "this is awkward!").  All of a sudden, it became clear that his view was what would happen.  Not sure how much respect Liang would be able to command from the young players, but he would definitely be a senior pro in the eyes of relative newbies like Chang, Bai and Jianbo, not quite so much Lu and Li. 

Totally agree that it's unlikely that Liang was the only person benefiting.

Wonder how much we'll ever actually find out?  (and how Liang's involvement came to light to begin with - I just checked, and I lost £23.99 on the match we know about, so it's not like the market was massively wrong here, or I'd have done more!  Laugh)
Report gjohn101 December 12, 2022 12:37 PM GMT
Holy fcking batman Yan Bingtao SurprisedSurprisedSurprised

https://wst.tv/wpbsa-statement-december-12th-2022/
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 12:48 PM GMT
I did wonder when Hugill got a walkover this morning....  It will be fascinating to hear if this was the same tournament! 

Latalomne • September 29, 2022 5:14 PM BST
Brown punishes a shocking Big Boy mistake, wins 4-3.

We're going to have a 64-player main tour at this rate, soon!
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 12:57 PM GMT
I think we've touched upon it before, but there was a Big Boy match around this time of year a couple of seasons ago, where I felt his performance stank to high heaven.  His level was so far off what he was producing at the time....

Just looking at it now, that was against another Chinese player in Chen Zifan at the UK.
Report gjohn101 December 12, 2022 1:04 PM GMT
Jesus lats, that certainly make you think alright! I'm only guessing here but I've a hunch someone with axe to grind grassed Liang up, probably anonymously and under investigation Liang gave up more names and gradually more are coming to light. House of cards, or at least Chinese pro snooker players, being tumbled down! Fck knows where they were betting, what sums were involved and who else gets roped in.
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 1:35 PM GMT
Where they were betting is the interesting thing for me, mate.  I find it quite hard to believe that they'd be able to get enough on with UK books / here to make it worthwhile, at least without making it stand out in the market (and the inevitable paper trail).  I don't know, but I imagine China is a bit like India with regard to unlicensed bookies....? 

Were Ding's comments about the lack of money in the game a sign that he knew what was coming?  Is that what this will all be blamed on?  Liang not having been able to earn anything and so, desperate, he ropes some of his countrymen in to help make ends meet?!
Report gjohn101 December 12, 2022 1:54 PM GMT
Good spot mate, quite likely ding would have had some inkling this was imminent, I'd even speculate even guys who weren't involved must have had some knowledge about it while the fixing was ongoing. The circle is just too wide for there not to have been imo.

On a sidenote, there were several betting scandals in the League of Ireland over past 5-6 years and they were linked to Asian betting rings. Daft beggars in charge even had a deal with a streaming company that was providing pics to the far east. To put in perspective LoI is about League 2 level in England. So I'd guess a lot or all of this is asian markets, there's simply no way you could try put anything more than a couple of 100 on a 4-1 scoreline in an early round match with a uk bookie and not alert the integrity unit. I always thought you could easily do a fix in snooker, or any sport, if you keep circle very small and just do small consistent sums.
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 2:50 PM GMT
Robbo playing the diplomat when asked about it by ES post match.

That's mental, mate!  It reminded me of the story that came out not long after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, where some little village in India was streaming and offering betting to Russians on scripted cricket matches.  There was only one fixed camera (which never showed anything other than the square - the scoreboard just kept progressing at whatever rate suited their book best), and I don't think there were enough "players" to field two full teams, let alone the whole "league"  LaughLaughLaugh
Report gjohn101 December 12, 2022 4:28 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaugh

Dont blame robbo in fairness, wonder if it had been the pistol if he'd have held back?! Heard Fouldsy saying he'd never seen Yan ever give anything less than 100%, or words to that effect, which is even more diplomatic and useless than robbo. Also seen some weird comments about Yan and some alleged sexual harassment claims from a few years back but hard to know what to make of them. Story already weird enough as it stands!
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 5:19 PM GMT
TBF, that match v Chen aside, I would say he genuinely does seem to be more "all in" than most.  Not seen any of those other allegations!  He did have a phase where he started dying his hair and wearing clown shoes, so maybe he thought he was God's gift?!

Separately, have you seen Baz Hearn has called out Hendry and pointed out the differences between his and Jimmy's attitude?
Report gjohn101 December 12, 2022 6:30 PM GMT
Yeah i guess that's fair enough, i guess it just means you can never really tell about any of them! Those allegations are from the same chinese site where the Chang allegations emerged so don't know what to make of em, Yan obviously very young when they supposedly happened, why they getting aired now is curious. Possibly nothing in it though.

Can see why hearn is having a go. Real point of those cards was to have likes of jimmy and hendry still around and generating the odd bit of interest and publicity. Hendry hardly playing is a betrayal of that i think and while Baz is gone, I'd imagine he still takes it personally. Plus, he's spot on too. Just think it's embarrassing, this guy, one time goat, afraid to turn up to play, using tv work as an excuse etc. Not entering world champs should have been the end of it imo, pull the plug on it then cos this guy is taking the piss with it.
Report Latalomne December 12, 2022 7:38 PM GMT
100%, I just didn't think Hearn would dare to call it for what it is!  Use it or lose it!
Report Latalomne December 23, 2022 8:57 PM GMT
Chen Zifan becomes #8  Whoops
Report Latalomne December 23, 2022 9:12 PM GMT
Now, if that is also a British Open match (like the Chang one), this one is more interesting.  I thought Ross Muir was extremely short for that match (1.5 - no idea if that was in the face of sustained support or not, but that was the price on the morning of the match).  I had Chen as a shade of odds-on.  Chen went into a 3-0 lead before completely falling apart, blowing one particularly good chance to win 4-1.  He eventually lost 4-3....
Report gjohn101 December 24, 2022 6:02 AM GMT
Jesus, that's bonkers lats, Ross had beaten Zak Surety 4-0 in the previous round but no way that justified him being favourite, let alone 1/2. He's not even on the main tour! Ringing all sorts of alarm bells there! I follow Aaron Hill, as you know, and i watched him beat Chen 5-1 in the European Masters where i recall he really stank the gaff out that night. Didn't think much of it at the time but, well, 1-4 or 1-5 seems a popular enough fix line so who knows? That British Open looks well suss for sure.

Not sure have you seen the last frame of the Chang-Jamie Jones match. Chang purposely leaves himself a real tough pink he needs for the frame but makes doubly sure by missing it by a foot. Just no way that ball is ever going anywhere near the remote vicinity of the pocketLaugh
Report Latalomne December 24, 2022 7:56 AM GMT
It's certainly interesting, mate.  Pure speculation that it is that match, but it immediately caught my eye when I was looking back through the results and my notes.  In fairness, the UK market doesn't seem to have been out of line for my speculative punts at what the other matches might have been, so I could just be wrong.  The market and myself don't always see eye to eye....

I do remember us having a conversation about that match with Hill because I gave Chen a positive mention in a match not long after it (though I don't think I saw the match myself - if I did, it didn't ring any bells). 

And yes, I saw the conclusion to the Chang match on Twitter.  You're right, in hindsight, it was worse than I'd made it sound at the time...! 

Wonder where all this ends?

I'll be away from the PC after this morning, mate, so have a great Christmas, and catch up after it! Cool
Report gjohn101 December 24, 2022 8:21 AM GMT
On second thoughts, i don't think Chen is that good so it's not as if he'd have been a real good thing in those matches, but 1/2 Ross is still outta whack however you look at it. Not sure what kind of fix the course of the match would suggest, but that's an instant red flag to start with.

The Hill match didn't ring any bells with me either. I just saw a much needed win for Hill against an opponent who misfired, like they do a lot of the time. Just hindsight now, like you say, pure speculation.

Fck knows where it ends mate. We'll be looking at the next few tournaments wondering if we'll be seeing the dreaded W/O next to another players name. Difficult to think the list has ended with Chen.

Anyway, thanks for your wishes mate and many happy returns. Not been watching much lately so hope to get back into swing of it round masters timeExcitedCool
Report Latalomne December 24, 2022 8:56 AM GMT
Like you say, mate, I don't think Chen was a good thing by any stretch, but the prices did seem off to me. 

The Chang one very definitely did look like it was supposed to be 4-1, so bad did he appear to be to get it over and done with there and then (or maybe he just wanted the charade to end - he does seem to be the one keenest to move past it so perhaps was least comfortable with it to begin with?)....

If I was trying to make it look like I was a tryer when I wasn't, taking the match to a W would be the obvious way to go (as has happened in quite a few of what I consider to be likely to be the matches in question).  Pure speculation once more, though.

All the best, mate!
Report gjohn101 December 24, 2022 10:51 AM GMT
A while back I was reading over some of the previous cases and one thing that stood out was that of the 5 matches Yu Delu admitted fixing, he won 2 of them 4-3. Seems a rather odd way to arrange a fix to me as, without your opponents cooperation, there can't be any guarantee of success, i guess you have to be very confident of winning and make a killing on the frame score. It does suggest anything is possible, though, they all have their various ways and strategies. The other thing i recall is that Asian punters tried to place £250,000 on a Cao match to net a 1m pay out. Not sure if they got the bets on but they alerted the authorities there and I suspect that's where their downfall started. Cao was reportedly getting 5k per fixed match.
Report Latalomne December 31, 2022 12:27 PM GMT
Hello mate, hope you have a good Christmas? 

Wow, that is surprising!  Surprised  Were the Yu ones definitely match result fixes as opposed to losing specific frames?  I don't really remember much about him, but looking at his stats, he peaked at 43 in the rankings (in his final season), so he was far from being a world beater!  That does seem incredibly ballsy, especially when, as we know, the balls truly can conspire against you at any given moment!

Re your last point, is this where we complete the circle and blame it on there not being enough money in the game (© Ding 2022)?  Laugh  (like that would make it go away - the punters would just end up putting more on and thus the offer to the player would duly increase).  £5k does hardly seem worth it, though, when you have so much more to lose....  Albeit, if the Chinese mafia is involved, I guess it wouldn't necessarily be about the money anyway....

HNY, mate, and catch you soon.
Report Latalomne January 3, 2023 12:10 PM GMT
Add Speccy and Jiankang to the mix.... 

Will there be any Chinese left who aren't implicated?!?
Report thegiggilo January 3, 2023 6:52 PM GMT
Am not surprised,there's no way Zintong could play as badky as he did in some of those matches last season,looks like they've all beenthreatened to me,i simply don't believe they were all doing it for the money..
Report Latalomne January 3, 2023 7:09 PM GMT
You say that but his whole career had been littered with those sort of performances prior to his UK win.  It's a style where the margins are very fine.  You either look like a world-beater or you look like a mug.
Report thegiggilo January 3, 2023 7:18 PM GMT
Probably been involved since he was 16,they've probably made fortunes off him..unable to escape an never allowed to play well,would explain a lot
Report Latalomne January 3, 2023 7:33 PM GMT
I think I would much prefer it if we're talking about isolated incidents.  If it's that widespread, the game is done.
Report peckerdunne January 5, 2023 11:55 PM GMT
This has been going on for decades.

They all have family in the grip of the 'party'.

I've said it for 20 years repeatedly, Ding would never win the world.

It doesn't take much working out.

You only see the tip but it's completely endemic.
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND January 9, 2023 3:23 PM GMT
Similar stories over here............. easily explained no doubt Laugh
Report gjohn101 January 11, 2023 1:00 PM GMT
Cheers lats, had a very good (lazy) xmas and just about getting back into full swing of things. Hope you had a good one yourself. As regards the Yu fixes, i dont honestly know mate, they never gave the full details on the exact bets but you're probably assuming along the right lines. Not surprising that Zhao got roped in as he's always been tight with Yan and his regular practice partner. Hope for his sake his offence is among the more minor class, but remains to be seen.
Report Latalomne January 14, 2023 11:26 AM GMT
Sorry, John, I missed this!  Excellent Xmas, thank you! 

The statements WST have been putting out in the media do seem to be implying that charges (in the main) are likely to be minor, if indeed at all, which is mildly alarming in a way, as that will clearly not serve as a deterrent.

Wonder how much we'll ever actually know?
Report Latalomne January 14, 2023 11:30 AM GMT
PS, I saw reference on the racing forum yesterday to a big Asian exchange called C itibet, which, from articles I read subsequently, seems to be a hotbed for money laundering etc.  I did wonder whether that should be somewhere we keep an eye on in future for heads ups on potential foul play???  (I did try to open it up, but I don't use a VPN and just got a message saying it wasn't available in this country...)
Report Latalomne January 16, 2023 11:12 AM GMT
I caught a snippet of Ronnie's piece to camera about this yesterday.  I got the impression that he thinks this is ALL ABOUT Liang and not some bigger mafia-type betting empire....?  In a nutshell, "There's only two ways someone finds themselves in this position, 1) addiction, 2) a need for money (and we need to support them)".
Report gjohn101 January 17, 2023 1:24 PM GMT
Interesting stuff lats. Maybe ron knows something we don't, but I'd be a little bit worried they'll just hang Liang out to dry cos he's an easy target and let others off with a slap on the wrist and pretend it's just one bad apple. As you rightly say, is that ultimately much of a deterrent. Without knowing the details and the evidence, it's difficult to make a solid judgement on it.

Btw, do you remember the incident linked below? Not sure if you remember it or crossed your radar at the time.

https://twitter.com/bigalob/status/1473723313818062861?s=20&t=IeMG15HRnTnUuWAmOv2SQg
Report Latalomne January 17, 2023 5:15 PM GMT
Hello, mate.

Lu did all sorts in that group.  I did reference him in this post above, albeit not that specific incident:

Latalomne • December 9, 2022 9:25 PM GMT
Hope you're well, mate?  Long time!

Literally just clocked this myself on the Beeb:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/63920382

Lu had some very smelly "defeat from the jaws of victory" moments in last year's CL(I), but I can't think of too much else that's aroused suspicion.


He cost me two or three decent payouts in that CL group (before finally nailing one) where he had really good opportunities to steal and butchered them.
Report gjohn101 January 17, 2023 9:07 PM GMT
Tbh I'm not sure I've seen anything as blatant as that in all my years watching the sport and there's a pair of them at it there. I'm not even sure Zhou is actually fixing there, he may just be taking the piss or even trying to nobble Lu's obvious fix by throwing it himself, if you get what i mean! I think ronnie is right when he talks about players needing money and we've always known those league formats were prime opportunities for fixing, right from the very start.
Report Latalomne January 17, 2023 11:11 PM GMT
I'd love you to be right about Xiao, mate LaughLaughLaugh
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 4:38 PM GMT
Liang AND Li charged with fixing AND approaching players to fix matches.

Speccy and Bai charged with fixing A match.

Big Boy, Lu, Jiangkang, Chen, Chang & Zhao charged with fining a match or MATCHES.
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 4:41 PM GMT
*Zhao Jianbo, that last one is
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:06 PM GMT
Latalomne 17 Jan 23 23:11 
I'd love you to be right about Xiao, mate LaughLaughLaugh


Xiao not Zhao, my bad! Honestly, a number of scenarios were coursing through my mind watching that frame unfold and that seemed as plausible as any. Assuming its as bent as a two bob note, the other scenario is that they had both inadvertently fixed to lose the same frame unknown to each other. If there's no fix at all, then it's simply the weirdest frame of pro snooker ever played!
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:12 PM GMT
Does seem like Liang, Lu Ning and Li Hang are going to bear the brunt of it, given the "seeking to obstruct the investigation" line is included for all 3, but none of the rest who obviously fessed up and cooperated straight off the bat. The phrasing for the charges against Zhao Xintong is interesting: "Zhao Xintong has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour and betting on snooker." What does that "concerned" mean exactly? I think it suggests something of a lesser infraction than the others at the very least.
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:13 PM GMT
*And the same for Bai Langning.
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:19 PM GMT
Must admit, I read the article which came up on my phone rather than the WST official line.  Lu didn't get the "seeking to obstruct" mention in the one I read.  And likewise, Speccy wasn't referenced as having bet on it himself!  "Concerned" (with/in) was used in all of the charges in the article I read.  My interpretation was that it was a single FIX as opposed to multiple FIXES?

I shall read the official post now.
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:21 PM GMT
OK, the official line is much clearer (probably should have started there in hindsight):

Wednesday 18 Jan 2023 11:00AM
Following a detailed investigation by the WPBSA Integrity Unit, working closely with Sportradar, the WPBSA has decided that ten snooker players have a case to answer in respect of the following alleged breaches of the WPBSA Conduct Regulations.

Liang Wenbo has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches and approaching players to fix matches on the World Snooker Tour, seeking to obstruct the investigation and failing to cooperate with the WPBSA investigation.

Li Hang has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches and approaching players to fix matches on the World Snooker Tour, seeking to obstruct the investigation and betting on snooker matches.

Lu Ning has been charged with fixing a match and being concerned in fixing matches and approaching a player to fix a match on the World Snooker Tour, seeking to obstruct the investigation and betting on snooker matches.

Yan Bingtao has been charged with fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour and betting on snooker.

Zhao Xintong has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour and betting on snooker.

Zhang Jiankang has been charged with fixing a match on the World Snooker Tour, failing to report approaches for him to fix matches and betting on snooker matches.

Chen Zifan has been charged with fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour.

Chang Bingyu and Zhao Jianbo have each been charged with fixing a match on the World Snooker Tour

Bai Langning has been charged with being concerned in fixing a match on the World Snooker Tour.

The players are currently suspended from attending and competing on the World Snooker Tour and in other WPBSA governed events until the conclusion of the hearing or hearings and the determination of this matter.

This matter will be referred to a formal hearing before an Independent Disciplinary Tribunal that will take place at a venue and on a date to be confirmed.
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:23 PM GMT
Why are Chang, Jianbo and Bai not all listed on the same line?  Does that imply that a match BETWEEN Chang and Jianbo was fixed?

Interesting that a few of them like a punt!
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:26 PM GMT
I'm guessing, I have no idea....
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:28 PM GMT
Ah yeah mate, my reading comprehension is all over the place. The concerned line is actually used in relation to Liang, Lu and Li Hang as well. Tbh, i still dont know what precisely it means or whether its that significant at all.
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:29 PM GMT
Just for info purposes, here's the official text as it appears on WSTV:

Liang Wenbo has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches and approaching players to fix matches on the World Snooker Tour, seeking to obstruct the investigation and failing to cooperate with the WPBSA investigation.

Li Hang has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches and approaching players to fix matches on the World Snooker Tour, seeking to obstruct the investigation and betting on snooker matches.

Lu Ning has been charged with fixing a match and being concerned in fixing matches and approaching a player to fix a match on the World Snooker Tour, seeking to obstruct the investigation and betting on snooker matches.

Yan Bingtao has been charged with fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour and betting on snooker.

Zhao Xintong has been charged with being concerned in fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour and betting on snooker.

Zhang Jiankang has been charged with fixing a match on the World Snooker Tour, failing to report approaches for him to fix matches and betting on snooker matches.

Chen Zifan has been charged with fixing matches on the World Snooker Tour.

Chang Bingyu and Zhao Jianbo have each been charged with fixing a match on the World Snooker Tour

Bai Langning has been charged with being concerned in fixing a match on the World Snooker Tour.
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:29 PM GMT
Ah, should have scrolled up before i posted. What a day Laugh
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:30 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaugh  Welcome to my world, mate!  In truth, I'm still not a lot nearer!  Laugh
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:35 PM GMT
Wonder if "concerned in" means passing on info that a match is fixed?  I don't see how else you can be involved without either be the one approaching, the one throwing or the one failing to report, which are all clearly different, separate offences.
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:38 PM GMT
*or the one betting on it yourself
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:41 PM GMT
That sounds very plausible lats, it's the "concerned in fixing matches and approaching players to fix matches" that is confusing me, like how is one different from the other? Actually sounds like it could be a pretty serious offence which is a bit more ominous in relation to Zhao Xintong, but guess we'll have to wait for more clarity as to what it exactly involves.
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 5:44 PM GMT
Why is Zhao "concerned" with fixing matches, but not his mate Yan? That's it in a nutshell i think!!
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:50 PM GMT
Or maybe being "the winner" in a match that you knew was fixed?
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:51 PM GMT
That assumes "failing to report" only applies to approaches to you yourself...?
Report Latalomne January 18, 2023 5:52 PM GMT
ie you can't be charged with failing to report if it wasn't you that was approached, even though you might be aware that the other player has been approached
Report gjohn101 January 18, 2023 6:00 PM GMT
I'm honestly stumped here, but i would agree passing on info is a good solid hunch as it's the one obvious infraction not actually specified. As to knowing a fix was on but failing to report, i wonder how easy that would be to prosecute, like how do you prove that failing something obvious like phone records or the like?
Report Platini January 19, 2023 1:03 PM GMT
Report pandora1963 January 19, 2023 5:25 PM GMT
looks like they have nothing on xintong apart from some vague charge, yet will probably throw him to the wolves, if xintong gets thrown out and the likes of higgins are justb allowed to carry on then it just goes to show how be nt the whole system is. Xintong a b ent cheat? no chance.
Report elisjohn January 19, 2023 7:45 PM GMT
biggest fix imho was the davis v higgins clash at the crucible 2 rd around 1o years ago, still remember that match  .
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 9:51 AM GMT
Likely not linked to Liang, but Hills have just confirmed to me that yesterday's Mark King v Joe Perry match is under investigation by the relevant bodies and that they won't be paying out until it's complete....

For those who didn't see it, King drifted 2.75 to 3.5 in the hour before the start on B365, missed a lot of bad balls (not unusual, TBF), was 8.0 at B365 at 1-0 Perry, and sub 6 here, and B365 were going 1.36 Perry to win frame 3 before a ball had been struck....  It really didn't look clever.
Report pandora1963 February 14, 2023 10:11 AM GMT
i recenly read how happy king was since he GAVE UP gambling , lol
Report pandora1963 February 14, 2023 10:12 AM GMT
recently
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 10:36 AM GMT
IF he was involved in any way, it's not hard to see how it might happen.  He's won £17.5k since the start of July and prior to yesterday had only played one competitive frame (the Shootout) in precisely two months.  I do firmly believe WST need to sort the calendar out so there aren't these big gaps for the lower-ranked players if you don't happen to qualify for the one tournament you're eligible for in the middle.  The run of predominantly invitationals after Christmas is a bad idea, not only from a momentum/form perspective, but especially so for those who aren't good with money.
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 10:48 AM GMT
PS, no idea if he's invited to the 6-Reds or not, but he next main tour tournament he'd be eligible for starts 16th March!
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 10:48 AM GMT
*the
Report gjohn101 February 14, 2023 12:40 PM GMT
Interesting stuff lats. Whether truly dodgy or not, loads of this stuff has to be going on. No way it couldn't be.

I think WS definitely has a problem atm, obviously exacerbated by china situation. Agree 100% the lack of opportunities for mid to low rank players is a huge issue, but at same time they believe they have to gear it towards top end as that's where the corporate end is. ITV, for example, barely seem interested unless they can be guaranteed the top 10 or most of them. Thinking back to what mags, sheriff and ding were warning about, sure they have their own interests in mind, but I think at least some of it is well founded. The WS cup does not runneth over.
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 1:10 PM GMT
Yeah, it does make you wonder, mate, though there aren't usually as many clues in the UK market as there were in yesterday's match....

Like you, I've been joining those dots up, too! If we are at the stage where players are having to chuck matches just so they can survive, clearly something is wrong with the product to begin with.  As we've discussed before, maybe there's a place for some kind of secondary tier of events when the invitationals are going on?  Even if it paid little more than pocket money (and that's almost certainly all they could afford to pay), it might just help take the pressure off the players a bit and ultimately raise the credibility of the sport, because sure as eggs are eggs, story after story like we've been getting does not improve snooker's appeal to would-be sponsors - far from it.
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 1:23 PM GMT
And right on cue, BBC piece from Ali:  'Maybe 90% of players on tour have got no money'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/64609682
Report gjohn101 February 14, 2023 2:02 PM GMT
That's an excellent suggestion mate. Depends on WS stumping up the cash but they've got to do something, that 20k guarantee might help a few but doesn't go nearly far enough.

Ali saying players might be better off stacking shelves, reminded me of robbos flipping burgers comment of years back. Things have definitely got worse and that WS response to Ali with its "incredible standards" and "great rewards" is just the usual defensive, head in sand stuff they come out with.
Report Latalomne February 14, 2023 2:43 PM GMT
I just look at the tennis tours, mate, and at pro level they basically have three tiers of event away from Grand Slams and the Tour Finals, 1000s, 500s and 250s, with ranking points to the winner limited to the level of the event, rather than a per pound ($) won basis.  The rest of the players get points based on how far they progress.  Some weeks there are three tournaments on concurrently (tennis is obviously played on different surfaces which also mean that players favour some over others).  I presume the higher ranked players get first dibs on where they go (if anywhere) each week. 

I also presume (seems reasonable) that there's an awful lot more money in tennis to begin with, but maybe snooker could support a second tier?  It's not like every tournament happens in front of the paying public now, so ticket sales, presumably, in the grand scheme of things, are neither here nor there anyway? 

Something just has to give to stop the bad news stories...
Report Latalomne March 2, 2023 8:39 PM GMT
Thursday 2 Mar 2023 12:00PM
Sport Resolutions have appointed Ian Mill KC to chair the Independent Disciplinary Hearing for the ten snooker players charged with serious breaches of the WPBSA Conduct Regulations. A date of 24th April 2023 has been set for the start of the proceedings.

The players will remain suspended until the outcome of the Independent Disciplinary Hearing is published. They will therefore not participate in any remaining World Snooker Tour events during the 2022/23 season, including the 2023 World Snooker Championship.
Report Latalomne March 2, 2023 8:39 PM GMT
Separately, Hills still withholding winnings from the King v Perry match at the Welsh, and no mention of anything anywhere in the media.
Report gjohn101 March 10, 2023 6:31 PM GMT
Latalomne 02 Mar 23 20:39 
Separately, Hills still withholding winnings from the King v Perry match at the Welsh, and no mention of anything anywhere in the media.


Wonder how long Hills can sit on that, given there's indication there's any official investigation going on? Unless they know something rest of us don't? Interesting one, that.
Report gjohn101 March 10, 2023 6:44 PM GMT
Was just thinking of your tennis reference above lats and it's definitely an interesting one to compare. I can recall going back 10-15 years ago the same debates taking place on the tennis tour, how you couldn't earn a living unless you were in the top tier. Specifically remember a piece with a pro who had broken into the top 100 but still couldn't make it pay and, of course, the whole thing seemed awash with corruption and regular betting scandals. So was interested to read the below piece, especially the varying opinions on how many pros the tour should support. In light of what you say about the second tier, i think this bit is very instructive:

"In 2022, the ATP boosted prize money for Challengers by nearly 25 percent, to over $11 million. Late last year, the ATP announced an “an unprecedented revamp” for 2023, pouring an additional $9 million (a 75 percent increase) into the tour, bringing the Challenger Tour pot to total to $21.1 million. The year-end earnings reports for 2023 will most likely swell considerably, validating Duvall’s projection. We’re barely into March, and 121 ATP players have earned over $100,000."

Sure, the money in tennis is vastly superior and the ready supply of sponsors and tv revenue is always going to outstrip snooker, but the principle is exactly the same. The question is how many players should the world snooker tour support - ie earn a reasonable proper living - and how do they go about achieving it? I think we can all agree there's no way 128 pros are earning a decent annual wage, not even close, and the minimum £20K thing they brought in is no more than a sticking plaster. They definitely need to do a lot more and will be interesting to see how they go about it.
Report gjohn101 March 10, 2023 6:45 PM GMT
Sorry, tennis piece i was reading if anyone's interested

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/to-some-tennis-prize-money-distribution-debate-is-over
Report Latalomne March 15, 2023 8:40 AM GMT

Mar 10, 2023 -- 6:31PM, gjohn101 wrote:


Latalomne 02 Mar 23 20:39

Report Latalomne March 15, 2023 8:40 AM GMT
All trace of the bet had disappeared from my Hills account (and no sign of the stake money), so I chased them the other day.  Still not able to payout....  It's been over a month.

Interestingly, of all the WST matches, the only one B365 don't have prices up for is King v Asif....  Was half expecting him to have been pulled, but snooker.org still has the match listed.
Report Latalomne March 15, 2023 8:46 AM GMT

Mar 10, 2023 -- 6:44PM, gjohn101 wrote:


Was just thinking of your tennis reference above lats and it's definitely an interesting one to compare. I can recall going back 10-15 years ago the same debates taking place on the tennis tour, how you couldn't earn a living unless you were in the top tier. Specifically remember a piece with a pro who had broken into the top 100 but still couldn't make it pay and, of course, the whole thing seemed awash with corruption and regular betting scandals. So was interested to read the below piece, especially the varying opinions on how many pros the tour should support. In light of what you say about the second tier, i think this bit is very instructive:"In 2022, the ATP boosted prize money for Challengers by nearly 25 percent, to over $11 million. Late last year, the ATP announced an “an unprecedented revamp” for 2023, pouring an additional $9 million (a 75 percent increase) into the tour, bringing the Challenger Tour pot to total to $21.1 million. The year-end earnings reports for 2023 will most likely swell considerably, validating Duvall’s projection. We’re barely into March, and 121 ATP players have earned over $100,000."Sure, the money in tennis is vastly superior and the ready supply of sponsors and tv revenue is always going to outstrip snooker, but the principle is exactly the same. The question is how many players should the world snooker tour support - ie earn a reasonable proper living - and how do they go about achieving it? I think we can all agree there's no way 128 pros are earning a decent annual wage, not even close, and the minimum £20K thing they brought in is no more than a sticking plaster. They definitely need to do a lot more and will be interesting to see how they go about it.


Wow - that's other level stuff, mate!  That would be the equivalent of the Q Tour making a decent living!  Surprised

Gotta be honest, ATM, it feels like the whole thing is just dying on its arse (no GIB, no Turkey, no TV for the replacement WST)....  It all just feels a bit bleak....  Wonder how many £4.99 pm Matchroom Live subs they've sold?  Bet it's not many!  Come back, Barry!  Cry

Report Latalomne March 18, 2023 1:07 PM GMT
Muhammad Asif gets a walkover v King....  [whistle]  Wink
Report Latalomne March 18, 2023 1:10 PM GMT
https://wst.tv/wpbsa-statement-mark-king/
Report thegiggilo March 18, 2023 2:54 PM GMT
Not surprised about Mark King at all,gambling problems in the past earn't like 19k this season probably skint he'll end up back working on building sites 1.01..
Report gjohn101 March 18, 2023 4:25 PM GMT
Your suspicions proved well founded in the end lats. Surely you get your stake money back though? That strikes me as odd but never encountered this situation before.

Another blow for the sport and this one shows it's not just foreign players under suspicion of being at it. Have often heard King talking of his financial woes so it's definitely not a seismic shock or anything. Does he own or run a snooker club by any chance? Hardly much profit in that game anyway if so.
Report Latalomne March 18, 2023 5:37 PM GMT
I presume I shall eventually, but at the moment I guess the matter remains under investigation.... (though we can all see which way it is most likely to go)

As we said further up the thread, mate, it makes you wonder how much of it goes on, though it is rare for the market to drop as many hints as this one did!
Report gjohn101 March 18, 2023 5:51 PM GMT
Strange they had to wait till today or yesterday to scratch him from tournament and not give a chance for a top up? Maybe that's the legal process at play, not sure how it works. Judging from what you were saying earlier, they really did make it look blatant which I think is the problem for these guys when they either get greedy or let too many people in on the fix. You got to keep it low key and the circle tight, keep it below the  bookies alarm bell alert, kinda like how the cyclists would always stay just below the 50% haemocrit level or whatever the cut off point was. Anyway, I guess the system worked on this occasion so that's a good thing.
Report Latalomne March 18, 2023 5:56 PM GMT
The precedent has definitely been set before that players were removed just before their matches were due to start (Liang and someone else - poss Big Boy, I'm sure).

Curiously, B365, while not having a pre-ko market, did have an in-play one, and we even had a pic feed here, even though the market was never loaded to the Exchange....
Report Latalomne March 18, 2023 5:56 PM GMT
Actually, that last bit is a lie, it appeared here this morning (having been absent prior to that).  It was missing elsewhere, though.
Report Latalomne March 20, 2023 7:23 AM GMT
Someone has put together a highlights reel from the match in question.  Must admit, I missed a couple of them as I was involved on more than one match....  Not all of these are horrific, but several are.

https://twitter.com/147Magtr/status/1637465288793899013
Report gjohn101 March 20, 2023 6:08 PM GMT
Latalomne 20 Mar 23 07:23 
Someone has put together a highlights reel from the match in question.  Must admit, I missed a couple of them as I was involved on more than one match....  Not all of these are horrific, but several are.

https://twitter.com/147Magtr/status/1637465288793899013


Cheers lats. I'm maybe thinking the gentleman may not have been on his game that day either and so opponent was forced to push boat out to gift chances! Interestingly, very sympathetic responses to Kingy in that thread though.
Report Latalomne March 20, 2023 9:25 PM GMT
Lots of disbelief, I think, mate, from people who didn't see the pre-match drift and subsequent betting.

The most disturbing thing for me is that all of those gestures are pretty standard fare for a King match....  From memory, he still managed a wave to the crowd as he walked out at the end, looking not as annoyed/frustrated/humiliated as you might expect from someone who should have been feeling at least one of those emotions after that....
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