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20 Nov 18 19:56
Date Joined: 30 Aug 04
| Topic/replies: 833 | Blogger: gobelins's blog
A whole 8 days without snooker, but at least we've got a pre-Christmas stint of JV to look forward to. The UK may not be the massive event it once was, but it remains the 3rd biggest event on the calendar and it comes at a time when we may be seeing the re-emergence of J.Trump as a frequent title winner. It seems strange that his capture of The N.Ireland Open is being seen as a direct result of an increase in his time spent practicing, as the current schedule doesn't appear to allow for it. That said, it does seem to have been a factor in J.Lisowsk"s rise up the rankings, so maybe it has rubbed off on Trump and he's been knuckling down. Whether this title is the start of a full Trump resurgence, or whether it was simply his turn, remains to be seen, and we should have a better idea in a few weeks' time. Something similar also applies to M.Allen who played to a career-best level a few weeks ago, and it will be interesting to see whether that was the exception rather than the new norm for him, given how inconsistent he is. With usual suspects R.O'Sullivan, M.Selby, J.Higgins and M.Williams likely to be big players here, and improved form from one or two of the players with question marks currently surrounding them - Ding, K.Wilson, Robbo, S.Murphy and B.Hawkins - likely to happen, we could be in for a cracking tournament.
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Report trebor November 20, 2018 8:19 PM GMT
Trump's win is probably more down to Kyren's comments than the practice, same as Ricky Fowler winning a tournament after news article comments on what an under achiever he was.
Report gobelins November 20, 2018 8:35 PM GMT
I can understand how Wilson's dig at him would have motivated Trump, but that suggests he was lacking motivation beforehand. Wilson's comments were made just a couple of days before the tournament in N.Ireland started, and it's a huge indictment on Trump's whole attitude, if that was the sole/main reason for his improved form and attitude.
Report trebor November 20, 2018 8:42 PM GMT
I think Wilsons comments where made because he knows far more about Trumps dedication than we do, I am sure Judd thinks he is motivated but if you can double your practice time just like that then you where not working hard enough in the first place. and as you said he has not really had too much chance to practice lately I would imagine with the run of tournaments.
Trump needs to really get down to some serious practice after the world championships and sort his cue action out, not have jimmy telling him how well he is cuing in mistake for a bit of form imo.
Report gobelins November 20, 2018 9:01 PM GMT
Trump remains the most frustrating player around these days, and he gets plenty of stick on here because everyone sees how much talent he has. His practice sessions have been discussed on here numerous times and I'm sure you're right about Wilson knowing far more about it. When Wilson made those comments I think he did it to rile Trump, and touch a nerve, as he knew he'd leave a marker for future meetings. Trump can definitely be 'got at' and it is one of several weaknesses that remain in his game. He still has a fair way to go to get to the very top, but last week was a reminder of just how good he can be. Whether he can build on it remains to be seen.
Report appformat November 20, 2018 9:01 PM GMT
looking at those first round matches their looks to be some real banana skins for the top ranked players..
Report trebor November 20, 2018 9:41 PM GMT
I am probably a bit tuff on Judd, but I watched  him play almost on a weekly basis from the age of 8 to about 16 and feel he is really letting an opportunity slip. During this time he had a good practice partner in Andrew Norman who played the game in a Steve Davis style, Andrew was a few years older than Judd and a good practice partner for him to aim at, Andrew won the English under 17 and under 21 titles as well as finishing runner up in the English Amateur.

During these years Judd played a really tight game and showed tremendous patience, he would give more respect to an opponent receiving a start off of him than he does to most pro's now, this seemed to change dramatically when he left Bristol and headed to London, it seems the reputation of being able to pot everything overtook the importance of winning the matches. it is probably very difficult to keep a level head when everyone is telling you it is just a matter of time before you dominate the snooker world.
Report gobelins November 20, 2018 10:36 PM GMT
Yes, some good points there trebor - I remember going to the final round of World qualifiers about 10 years ago, and Trump was playing S.Lee for a place at The Crucible. There was a big crowd watching the 2nd session, as it was considered a bit of a Derby, and there had been a few comments exchanged pre-match with Lee stating he wanted to put Trump in his place. Trump led for most of the match but with the game under control he started playing to the crowd and he started taking liberties. A visibly pumped-up Lee fought back, and with a large vocal support cheering every Trump mistake, he fought back and won 10-8. At the time I put it down to Trump's inexperience, but whenever I hear about, or see, Trump's "naughty snooker" I wonder if he even considers that he can be unnecessarily giving his opponent renewed motivation. He needs to remember that winning is more important than entertaining the crowd no matter what O'Sullivan says.
Report gjohn101 November 20, 2018 10:51 PM GMT
Interesting stuff guys. Will JV be doing the UK? If memory serves they dropped him last year, the forkin barstewards, and have a feeling it’s a permanent thing.

I was thinking “the tournament formerly known as the second major” would be a suitable new official title for the uk.
Report gjohn101 November 20, 2018 10:52 PM GMT
Was that in prestatyn gobe?
Report gjohn101 November 20, 2018 11:06 PM GMT
I assumed Wilson’s champion of champions comment didn’t just come out of the blue, more a product of a mini feud that is ongoing for some time. Remember after wilsons comeback win in the masters, trump was moaning afterwards about how lucky wilson had been which sounded like sour grapes. I suspect they just don’t particularly like each other as people, may even go back to their junior days perhaps as judd isn’t all that older.
Report thegiggilo November 21, 2018 2:13 AM GMT
More of the same big bags,centurys ever other frame a potters delight very little safety,the trouble is now they can't go back to making the tables playing harder as it won't appeal to the fanboys watching,god forbid there would be some great safety and long frames interrupting the tons,plus how would they explain the sudden drop in break building...It's here for good,that's an absolute certainty..Shocked
Report gobelins November 21, 2018 7:54 AM GMT
gj - don't tell me that about JV. I thought he was at The Crucible last April, but maybe not. JV and Angles are the only ones I can listen to on BBC these days. That match was at the English Institute of Sport in Sheffield. We used to go every year, and we've been thinking of going back this year. It's a better venue for watching than Ponds Forge although it can be noisy as it's massive with loads of sports halls. I think you're right about Wilson, and maybe it does go back further than The Masters. Long may it continue (from both players) - let's get more needle into some of these games.
Report jed.davison November 21, 2018 9:06 AM GMT
For me, like every tournament will be while he is taking the game seriously, this is Trump's to lose.

There are still caveats for me with Trump - I am prepared, especially given last week's form, to take at face value his insistence that he is now practising with the diligence required of a top player. I believe that his self-belief took an almighty dent when he lost to Bingham in 2015 and that beating Ronnie in this final will go a very long way to restoring it. My worry is that for all these plus points there is still the danger that he might just turn it in half way through a match that is not going his way, but for me there is still enough value in his price to make him a justifiable bet.
Report gjohn101 November 21, 2018 9:39 AM GMT
JV was most definitely at the crucible last season and expect him back this one too. But they dropped him for uk I think, supposedly to give new blood a chance which if memory serves was the train wreck commentary of Peter Ebdon. I love Virgo, a simply top bloke as well as commentator and going to savour every world champs and masters he has left.

Am guessing that judd-lee match was 2010 as I know the world qualifiers were in prestatyn in 09 as I was there. Horrible venue early january but great fun all the same.

When you look at trumps hth records I find it interesting that he has done better against the likes of ronnie and selby than he has against wilson who he trails 3-6. On talent you’d expect him to be ahead or at the worst level, but seems there’s something else going on there and, yes, long may it continue. I exclude championship and all league matches from hth by the way as I see little relevance in them.
Report jed.davison November 21, 2018 9:47 AM GMT
I made a resolution some time ago never to watch any match I could watch on Eurosport on the BBC, and if I had to watch the BBC to turn the volume down. I still fear that even a second's further exposure to Dennis Taylor will turn me into a mass murderer.
Report gjohn101 November 21, 2018 9:55 AM GMT
I’d always want to listen to Hendry over anyone but the bbc, possibly sensing this, have a very nasty habit of usually pairing him with Taylor. I still remember the time Dennis picked out some guy in the audience who was going into space and, after a long spiel, says excitedly, “what do you think of that stephen?” A solid 30 seconds of silence ensued.
Report jed.davison November 21, 2018 10:10 AM GMT
It is somehow comforting that however desperate Joe Johnson might be, no part of my license fee goes towards his salary. I never watch any build-up or mid-session rubbish anyway, precious little time to eat and wash when there's a tournament on without wasting it listening to Goldstein ****ing over Ronnie.
Report trebor November 21, 2018 10:34 AM GMT
Trump and Lee used to live within 20 miles of each other and think Lee didn't like all the attention Trump was recieving.

From Bath Chronicle:
Trump failed to qualify for the World Championship, losing 8–10 to Stephen Lee having led 6–3. Lee considered this match to be a local derby, as he is from nearby Trowbridge. He also noted that Trump had not followed the custom of apologising for fluked shots during the match, and concluded "all I've heard about for the last five years is how good he is. Today he blew a 6–3 lead and hopefully that will stick with him"
Report jed.davison November 21, 2018 10:44 AM GMT
Won't stick with him as long as Lee blowing his entire career I would imagine.
Report Blackrock November 21, 2018 11:20 AM GMT
Trumps safety has improved bigtime. He is playing the right shot more often than he used to. He's still a big headed so and so but his talent is incredible.

A high in confidence Judd will go close next week. I'm going for Mark Allen as his game is in high order.
Report gjohn101 November 21, 2018 11:38 AM GMT
I agree with that first par blackrock. In the final judds safety success wasn’t far off 90% which is seriously impressive, that’s up with ronnie and selby at their best. That’s a very encouraging sign though we’ll still have to expect the odd brainfart at pressure moments. I think you need a proper safety game more than ever on these quick tables and it may be for judd the message is finally getting home.
Report jed.davison November 21, 2018 11:39 AM GMT
He's always had a brilliant safety game, just that he hardly ever used it.
Report BornToWin November 21, 2018 7:03 PM GMT
I expect Judd to fail here, not exactly sticking my neck out at 1/8 or whatever.

Talking all satisfied with himself after NI, just another event on the conveyor belt.

He's won 8 or 9 ranking events, lets not mention it should be 28 or 29 in this era including 2 or 3 World titles.
Report jed.davison November 21, 2018 7:26 PM GMT
Why should it? It takes different players different amounts of time to know what is required - in practise and in matches. He still has years ahead of him as the best player in the world, I can't see any youngsters coming through to threaten him.

We shall see though I guess.
Report gobelins November 21, 2018 8:10 PM GMT
Ahhh I'd forgotten about the greatest being in the box for BBC. Let's hope he doesn't have to contend with Taylor's tedious ramblings too often this time around - at least we can mute him. Hendo and JV would be heaven, if the latest BBC hype merchant, Ebbo, hasn't ousted him.    There have been a couple of false dawns with J.Trump and I'd be wary of overstating the importance of his win in N.Ireland. In a way it's actually a compliment to him that his win over R.O'Sullivan isn't seen as having the same significance had, say, K.Wilson beaten him in the Champion of Champions final. Trump has always appeared to relish his matches against O'Sullivan and always sounds confident beforehand. If he can follow up his N.Ireland win with another win in the UK or Masters then maybe this could be his time, as he does still have time on his side, but that 'if' is, as always, a huge one.
Report BornToWin November 21, 2018 8:48 PM GMT
I suppose I feel it should have been because history suggests the greats have a few in the bag before 30.

He is still too immature. He took plenty liberties in that final, only Ronnie takes more than anybody. It suited him.

This injection of confidence can see more liberties being taken, with a determined Journeyman Joe or some such doing for him in the next 6 events.
Report gobelins November 22, 2018 7:18 AM GMT
Cheers Trevor for that newspaper report. I'd forgotten that Lee also accused Trump of not acknowledging his flukes. My main recollection of the match was Trump taking on a cut back yellow right handed rather than using the rest, when he could have stolen a frame late in the match (it might have been 7-6 at the time I'm not sure). It was a really strange choice of shot, but maybe the tension of the match got to him.
Report gobelins November 22, 2018 7:19 AM GMT
*trebor - I'm on my phone, with auto correct!!
Report trebor November 22, 2018 12:08 PM GMT
Judd has never really had a player younger than him as a challenger to his perceived up and coming dominance like Kyren, he says they are of a similar age but I guarantee Judd knows he is two years older than Kyren, but hopefully it will create a bit of motivation and more practice.
Am sure Judd stills sees himself as the new generation, but worth remembering that at his age Hendry had won 6 off his 7 World Championships, all of his 6 Masters and all 5 of his UK Championships.
Report BornToWin November 22, 2018 4:54 PM GMT
Of course the landscape is changed trebor, with zero talent coming through. The aged are prospering like never before, with MJ Williams incredible victory the thus far pinnacle.

Perhaps Judd feels he can start mopping up whenever he likes.
Report gobelins November 22, 2018 9:03 PM GMT
trebor - that's an interesting point you make, and I'd never considered J.Trump's thinking regarding K.Wilson being a potential younger threat to the top of the game, when the current 40+ crop are finally toppled (which may still be 2-3 years away). And, maybe the perceived twin threat of Wilson, who he dislikes, and to a lesser extent J.Lisowski who he is best mates with, have combined to focus his mind a lot more. And, although we are only speculating on all of this as he won in N.Ireland, we also know he is one of the few players capable of competing with, and beating, R.O'Sullivan, J.Higgins and M.Selby on a regular basis.

While I take your point about Trump still seeing himself as the new generation, he is probably entitled to given how the longevity of O'Sullivan, Higgins and Williams have altered the current thinking about when a player reaches his prime, and for how long they can play to a high level. Also, as has already been stated on this thread and elsewhere - there doesn't appear to be many of the younger players likely to consistently challenge for titles for quite a while yet.
Report thegiggilo November 23, 2018 1:02 AM GMT
Desperation stakes trying to create a fake rivalry between two numbskulls like wilson and trump,not exactly alex higgins v Davis is it,laughable anything to try and hype the sport...No need for over analysing trump,the games so easy now under current conditions they are playing to his main attributes and obviously he will win more tournaments,probably a handful of worlds as well..
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 1:29 AM GMT
Alex v davis was some rivalry alright, 4-21 the hth was or something like that. Take away a couple of months either side of 83-84 and alex was as well off not turning up.
Report gobelins November 23, 2018 7:39 AM GMT
giggilo - current playing conditions have not seen Trump win lots of tournaments or a handful of World Championships so far, so there must be reasons why. This thread has become about Trump, given that the old guard can't go on indefinitely, and based on his undoubted talent and on his recent N.Ireland win - he is the player most likely to be at the top of the game when the 40 something's finally deteriorate. On this, and many other threads we've discussed current flaws in Trump's game which might stop him, and Wilson is possibly a threat to him, who is younger not older than him. It's all speculation, but Trump's mindset will be an important factor going forward, if he is to go to the top of the game, and K.Wilson may (or may not) be someone who affects it.
Report thegiggilo November 23, 2018 9:17 AM GMT
Probably won't have to play well to get to the top of the game that's the point,wilsons even worse so over rated yet he's going to pick up a shedful as well the pthers are so poor..Tournaments are going to fall into their laps withoput even having to play well//
Davis and higgins the only proper rivalry in the game that has ever existed,everyone knew alex could beat davis on his day,mostly never turned up and his coral win for proper snooker fans will be as remembered more than davis winning his six worlds one of the greatest comebackls of all time,bland as bland can be..,i remember sitting listening to the radio updates as he crawled his way back into it and shouting c/mon running around my bedrooom..I couldn't give two **** what happens with wilson and trump two snowflakes
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 11:12 AM GMT
Watched every shot of the 83 uk final, cried at the end of it, leaves the 85 final for dead but let’s face it, if trump or anyone wants lessons on underachieving they need look no further than alex. Two world titles? Should have been 3 minimum in the 70s alone. Lost one year to a near 60 year old. Remember reading in one of the books, think it was dracula, saying how they were always happy to draw alex because he always gave them loads of chances.
Check the record, he’s 5-25 against davis in their “rivalry”, but hey, alex could have gone 30-0 if only he’d bothered to turn up. Yeah sure.
I remember davis saying that the partisan nature of the support actually helped him more than alex and I think he has a point on that.
Report thegiggilo November 23, 2018 11:39 AM GMT
Everyone knew Alex was going to disappoint on most days,that was the excitement you knew he was p1ssed but were preying he wouldn't be,he was one of the most talented players to pick up a cue,underachiever but no one cared they loved him and still do will live long in the memorys well after trump and wilson retire and you can guarantee his name will still be mentioned even in a 100 years and that 69 break will still be played.It wss the whole package not just winning tournaments,these players can win as many as they like higgins won't be forgotten they will..
Report trebor November 23, 2018 11:56 AM GMT
Alex Higgins, Jimmy White, Ronnie O'Sullivan and now Judd Trump, all say they want to entertain, and all win less than they should have done, yet experts like Hendry and Thorne are all for going for killing the frame off in one visit, that's Thorne who won one tournament in his career, and Hendry who found the attacking game is not so easy to play if you are not getting the pots.

The Higgins, Davis rivalry was more of a rivalry made up by the press and Higgins, and his fans, as a Davis supporter it was just another match on the way to the title.

GJ..  3 titles in the 70's?  despite being in his prime he won one, lost twice in the 1st round, once in the 2nd round and got beat by 44,61,46,and 47 year olds in the other years, but you have told me before you are a Higgins fan so like your optimism.

thegiggilo.. yes Higgins was talented but so unbelievably overrated by his followers, I for one tend to remember the other side of Alex.
Report thegiggilo November 23, 2018 12:03 PM GMT
Higgins couldv'e won 10 world titles how was he ever going to win being conatantly p1ssed,if it wasn't for higgins there would never have been a modern game he put the bums on seats even if he did waste his talent..
Report trebor November 23, 2018 12:09 PM GMT
As I say  talented but so unbelievably overrated by his followers
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 12:11 PM GMT
Yeah 3 titles in the 70s trebor, what’s so unlikely about that. 3 minimum. If dracula could win 6 world titles in the 70s then alex, with his talent, could - should - be winning at least 3. He wasn’t yet the uncontrollable  drunk and emotional cripple he’d become a decade later so that was his time for winning. I only know from reading books why he probably didn’t, kamikaze snooker the likely root cause of it, borne of a too casual disregard for the hard rule of elite sport, that even genius required a hard work ethic to smooth the rough edges off it.

Alex and Best were two of a kind, both thought they were immune to the normal laws of sporting nature and had to find out the hard way they weren’t.
Report trebor November 23, 2018 12:22 PM GMT
Drinking, smoking, practicing, choosing to play entertaining or hard snooker are all choices, but seem to get used for excuses, if Alex or George had had the determination of a Tiger Woods then they may well have fulfilled their talent, but they didn't, so deserve no extra praise than the guy who had all the other attributes but not enough talent imo
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 12:36 PM GMT
I only saw alex from 82 on so my take on his talent comes from first hand accounts from those who saw him from the beginning - Virgo, Spencer, Jim Meadowcroft etc. The consensus was that alex would have won more if he’d spent less time worrying about entertaining the crowd. That’s an opinion I’ve read time and time again. There was a price to be paid for becoming the people’s champion and maybe it came in the form of a couple of titles that weren’t entirely symbolic.

I don’t think we have to make excuses for him, just point out reasons why he didn’t do the things he could. Personally I know I wouldn’t be a fan of the sport or posting here now but for alex so yes, I am and will always remain a huge fan.
Report trebor November 23, 2018 1:54 PM GMT
Talent is overrated, I should write a book about it, oh it has been done of course. But people see talented sportsmen and think that they must become world beaters, but talent without hard work and dedication and a strong mind is not enough, for this post I will credit Higgins with the talent as so many seem to believe he had it, but he was so low in the other attributes required that he was never going to win 10 world titles thegiggilo, and unlikely to win 3 in the 70's GJ.

I hear what you say about entertaining the crowd, and heard Judd say it last week and imeadietly thought what you are really saying Judd is that you just cant stop yourself going for the shot, and has little to do with the crowd but more about not having the patience to play a safty shot. at least Hendry was honest about it.

Because talent is the god given attribute people rank it above all else and they disscount the hard work most put in to get to the top as anyone can put the work in, but talent is not hereditery as far as I know yet in the last 10 years there are over 50 golfers on the US and European golf tours whose father or brother also play or have played on the tour. they may not have had the talent? but saw first hand whet was required to make it and believed it could be done because a parent did it.

So if someone has the talent and abuses it that's up to them, but they wont get my sympathy and I certainly wont put them on some pedestal.
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 4:06 PM GMT
I’m not sure what we’re debating here. From the start I’m in complete agreement that alex fell woefully short in the 70s, after the first world title specifically. He lost to players way outside his talent range and beyond their prime. It’s ridiculous he let that happen, or so it seems to me anyway. Such were his deficiencies. I don’t think there’s any argument about that.

What you’re saying is all quite valid in a general sense. But we were discussing specific cases here and I think most who saw them at their peak - before mine and your time - would say higgins and best were special cases. The word genius is used but that, of course, annoys those who don’t subscribe to the legend. I think we can accept, though, that there’s always a tiny minority, fraction of a per cent, who are abnormally talented and I would put higgins into that category. For that reason I hold him as a huge underachiever despite 2 world titles.
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 4:11 PM GMT
One other thing important to say is that Alex loved the sport passionately and worked damn hard at it. He couldn’t have won what he did in the 80s without knuckling down and working on the all round game that finally got him back to the mountain top. It simply goes without saying that alcoholics and emotional cripples didn’t have much chance of sustained runs at the very top.
Report Blackrock November 23, 2018 5:29 PM GMT
Alex Higgins was not a particularly nice person but still attracted the 'moron' snooker fan, as Ronnie does now. As has been said  AH never got the best out of his talent, and his skill level would have been a million miles behind Ronnie. Wasn't even as talented as Jimmy. So let's not go overboard about how good he was.
Btw i'm not calling any posters on here morons for liking Higgins. You boys are too sensible for that.Grin
Report gjohn101 November 23, 2018 6:17 PM GMT
We didn’t see alex at his raging best in the 70s so it’s easier to focus on those we got to witness. Clive Everton covered the 72 final for the press and i think still says the snooker alex played that week is up there with the best he’s ever seen. Clive estimates that alex missed two pots that he ought to have got in the final and that’s it. Two pots in a match that lasted nearly a full week. The tragedy is we never got to see more of that near infallible higgins, he was pretty much in decline from that point on, the star burning too brightly and all that cliche.

What I think of when I look back is that 69 clearance in 82, not the outrageous blue or other difficult pots, but the jerking, twitching figure looking up at the scoreboard, then at the table, occasionally turning around to smile or wink at someone in the audience. That’s the bit that separated him from the rest that, better or worse, made him alex. Maybe other players could have made that clearance in those circumstances, but they could not have done it the way he did it and with that style.
Report thegiggilo November 23, 2018 7:12 PM GMT
Higgins was as talented as anyone thats played the game,infact he invented the modern game without him everyone would still be playing the game they were 40 years ago,he will be remembered and looked back upon in a hundred years.That 69 is and probably will still be the greatest break of all time,thankfully we can always watch it and everyone who has never seen it..just a gloimmer of how good he was.
Report gobelins November 23, 2018 9:41 PM GMT
On a totally unrelated topic - does anyone think 14/1 A.Carter to win Quarter 4 is over-priced? It looks a wide open section with 4/1 the field available, and The Captain doesn't look a million miles away at the moment. He may be floating just under the radar, and he looks worthy of a little nibble. I also think B.Hawkins looks a bit big at 15/2 for Quarter 3. He's reached a final and a SF in early season events in China, but he is on a 3 match losing streak. Stakes will be small given his record in the UK Championship is very poor with just a single QF appearance being his personal best. M.Selby is favourite for the quarter, but he does tend to be vulnerable in the early rounds of a lot of tournaments of late. And, although I couldn't pick someone, in particular, to beat him early on - he looks opposable at short odds.
Report jed.davison November 25, 2018 11:48 AM GMT
I'd be really wary of touching Carter at the moment - he was clearly suffering during the last tournament and admitted as much afterwards.
Report GRANTCKING November 25, 2018 3:50 PM GMT
bbc dont even start showing this till sat, they dont want to show the 1st round jobbers Laugh
Report gjohn101 November 25, 2018 4:49 PM GMT
Don’t know if it’s just me but feels hard to focus on tournaments when there are so many matches, uk is just as prone as any other tournament for early shocks/muggery so expect plenty of them.

One quarters bet I might look at is Murphy at 7s, on the hardly very inspiring basis that he’s surely got to put it together at some stage. Should really win his first 2-3 matches handy, though even that could require a sharp leap of faith. That said, it’s not the most daunting of sections imo, though of course Ronnie dominates it but don’t mind taking him on in this one.
Report gobelins November 25, 2018 6:32 PM GMT
jed - what seemed to be the problem with A.Carter, I missed that? I took 14/1 with slybet, as he was 10/1 and less elsewhere. Laughably, they did limit my stake to £17.74 - so no damage done if he's not with it at present.

gj - there's worse 7/1 chances than S.Murphy, although you couldn't really fancy him against R.O'Sullivan if they meet. O'Sullivan does have a tricky little path through the early rounds though, so maybe he'll trip up enroute.
Report gjohn101 November 25, 2018 7:03 PM GMT
True gobe, I don’t particularly fancy him, but I don’t see it as being a particularly imposing section, at least compared to the Carter one which looks very competitive to me. But he’s twice Murphy’s odds so that is in your favour there.

Murphy does have two victories over Ronnie in recent seasons so we know he CAN beat him, though may not be likely to. I’ll derive some (false?) optimism from the CoC match which was pretty decent quality. Murphy spurned some early chances to put Ronnie under the cosh in that match before the latter went up a gear. They’d only meet in qf if they win their matches anyway so 7/1 would be looking ok at that point.

I haven’t done anything yet but I guess I’ve just fully talked myself into that dodgy wager anyway!
Report gobelins November 25, 2018 7:30 PM GMT
Well, Murphy did reach the final last year, and although as you say there's a chance of more upsets early on due to the sheer number of matches being played, the UK more than any other ranking event sees the top players at the business end, and Murphy remains one of them despite a few lean years. There's been a few quid on him in the outright market, and I believe he was 50/1 a day or so ago, which looks far bigger than it should. I don't feel overly confident about A.Carter or spring horse B.Hawkins, but they are overpriced, and I can't resist a bargain just before Christmas!
Report jed.davison November 26, 2018 9:58 AM GMT
Carter was struggling badly with his gastric issues gobelins, noticed him give himself a little rub and have a wince a couple of times, then when interviewed afterwards he confirmed he had been suffering with it.

I think these things tend to come and go, so it may be that he's clear of pain by next week, but something worth bearing in mind.
Report gobelins November 26, 2018 4:34 PM GMT
Cheers jed. Hopefully, he's had a bit of time to recover - although it will have undoubtedly affected his preparation. It's the sort of draw I think he'd relish if he was fully fit and fully focused.
Report jed.davison November 26, 2018 6:17 PM GMT
I yield to nobody in my regard for Carter's talent as it happens. I played him once when he was about ten, I'd just made an eleven red ten black 81 on the next table while he practised so I was in decent form, and he beat me with a 60 after I broke off and left him one red he could see, on the rail just past the middle bag.
Report jed.davison November 26, 2018 6:18 PM GMT
Played every other shot with the rest, took my breath away how good he was.
Report gobelins November 26, 2018 8:31 PM GMT
I do like watching Carter, he's a proper match-player. But, for someone of his talent he has really under achieved. I know his temperament is suspect, but you wonder what he might have achieved had he remained fit and healthy. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he has at least one more major tilt at the World title left in him, and the fact he is approaching 40 should not be the barrier it may once have been.
Report jed.davison November 29, 2018 9:02 AM GMT
I haven't seen any signs of his ability waning, and if he could just get a free run with his illness, even for a few months to enable him to prepare properly he must be a runner at Sheffield any given year with his track record and his all-round game.

I don't wholly buy into the temperament thing either - I'm sure that would have improved as he gained experience if the years of illness hadn't intervened.
Report wondersobright November 29, 2018 4:02 PM GMT
jed he was absolutely shocking in the last event
was absolutely gifted a win by mjw and then he gubbed at short prices v eden sharav

he has been beating lower ranked players but has generally been pumped by the better players this ssn
Report jed.davison November 29, 2018 4:38 PM GMT
He was suffering tbf
Report Platini December 1, 2018 5:47 PM GMT
Higgins overrated? LaughLaugh

I think some commenters are maybe too young to remember how great a player he was.
Had more natural ability in his pinky than ROS and Jimmy put together.  He was doing amazing things with heavier balls and a heavy cloth, and was half cut a lot of the time.
Report Blackrock December 2, 2018 10:38 AM GMT
Don't make me laugh Platini. Had to keep potting difficult shots coz he wasn't great at controlling the white. FFS he wasn't even the best Higgins.Happy
Report Platini December 2, 2018 7:28 PM GMT
He was different gravy. Even your hero considers him a God, as does Jimmy White.
Report BornToWin December 6, 2018 4:53 PM GMT
This injection of confidence can see more liberties being taken, with a determined Journeyman Joe or some such doing for him in the next 6 events.

Hate tooting my own horn, but re Judd... ^
Report jed.davison December 7, 2018 8:29 AM GMT
Was expecting something like this, but I'm afraid sometimes you just have to take your hat off to your opponent, and the Gentleman deserved his victory for the way he played, no doubt about it.

I should remind you that for all Ronnie's brilliance, he has won only five of the 26 World Championships in which he has taken part.

In snooker, unless your name is Stephen Hendry, you just can not win every time.
Report trebor December 7, 2018 11:53 AM GMT
I agree, when some of the 'names' get beaten it is because they have played badly and never because the underdog has played well, Judd yesterday was playing well but he just keeps on giving his opponent openings, we hear he plays his own game, goes for his shots whoever he plays, I think he just under rates his opponent and does not seem to see the danger, at 4-3 up and ahead in 8th frame ha played a stupid shot to let Joe in, give your opponent 2 or 3 reds over the pocket and you are always going to struggle.

I liked listening to McManus on the Lisowski match against Ronnie, he pointed out some less obvious mistakes Jack was making before he played the shots.
Report gobelins December 8, 2018 9:06 AM GMT
Angles is absolutely different class. I haven't heard anyone better for a long, long, time. This thread developed into a thread about J.Trump, but I also mentioned the significance of this event to M.Allen in the opening post. Maybe, Allen will be the one who finally dethrones the old guard. He has 2 tough contests ahead of him, but maybe his current form isn't just temporary, and this is the standard the new Allen will consistently produce. Hopefully, there is still a little needle between him and S.Bingham. A tight Saturday night UK Semi with a bit of an undercurrent is something to really look forward to.
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