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05 May 15 09:27
Date Joined: 18 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 836 | Blogger: moondan's blog
The seasons drift by yet his knowledge of the game and its development loiters in darkness and ignorance.
Not even a false dawn to give hope, just a bleak landscape of childish hero-worship that maybe is best not explored outside the confines of his bedroom.
I do detect he is two timing Ronnie and flirting with young Trump but maybe all will be revealed in the spring of next season, we shall see.

In passing I must say I do detect there is something of the "man in the money market add " about Angel but its just an impression I have.

Anyway lets stick to the facts and what we actually know.

Extremely poor in revision of the past and spends far too much time searching for any minute shred of evidence that will bolster his poorly view of a game that is steeped in smoke and mirrors of the present day.
Its so sad that he and others refuse to see the obvious questions that many in the game are asking about the true test the tables are asking of players in what should be the stiffest test.

Over the next few days I will explain in detail why the pockets are accepting balls that would have surely been rejected and why its actually changed the game.

Anyway Angel, prepare yourself for enlightenment LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Next installment later today.
Pause Switch to Standard View END OF TERM REPORT OF THE ANGEL...
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Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 10:46 AM BST
Moondan..please go easy on Angel. He was at the final on saturday but left early because he said you cant actually see the pockets at the venue, they are that small. You can only see them on the tv because there is a special magnifying glass on the camera lens that enlarges the pockets but not the table itself. It's amazing the things Angel knows Wink

Also, he's been developing this weird obsession with Terry Griffiths over the past few days that i'm beginning to think might not be all snooker relateed. It could be a welsh thing as he seems to have a thing for Doug Mountjoy as well. To be honest i haven't a clue what it's all about really.

Anyway...interesting comment from Bingham about the table conditions last night I thought. But I'm staying out of this one...just going to sit back and enjoy the show Cool
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 10:47 AM BST
Morning Moondan

Have you missed your dose of All-Bran this morning? it helps with conspira...constipation.
Check your sugar levels as well as this can mess with equilibrium leading to smoke and mirrors delusions.
Also do not believe everything you see on TV, Carol Vorderman`s rumpy is not the size of an African hippopotamus.

Wasn`t it an inspiring performance from Bingham Moondan, and a great advertisement for snooker as a whole. One chance snooker at it`s best. You probably noticed the lack of safety play kept the red balls away from cushions in the final so when either player got in among the balls a frame winning chance was on. It was like watch Hendry v Hendry.LaughLaugh
Report dlarssonf May 5, 2015 11:02 AM BST
Bucket pockets
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 11:09 AM BST
I wasn`t going to mention El Tel John but as you did here is his opinion on the game.

[i]Going back to the tables briefly just to put something to bed. Some people seem to think the tables in the 90s when Hendry was at his best were the fairest tables and that it’s too easy today.(interviewer)
It’s a load of rubbish! The tables have never been really tight or too big. There was once in 1982 when BCE came along and did a contract and they did the tables too tight, but in general terms I think the tables are very fair. They give you the opportunity to play well but don’t give you easy pockets. These players today are so good they make it look as if the pockets are easy but they’re not. And you’ve got to remember that whatever the conditions are they are the same for both players.[/i] TG.

El Tel says Moondan talks a load of rubbish!Laugh
Report dlarssonf May 5, 2015 11:15 AM BST
bucket pockets
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 11:29 AM BST
Angel, i also heard Parrot going on about the brilliant modern standard last night, unwittingly tripping himself up in the process. These guys aren't critics, AG, they're in the promotions business, shameless. They're Barry's lap-dogs.

What did you make of Bingham's comments last night btw?
Report paddletoe May 5, 2015 11:32 AM BST
Bill Werbeniuk could fit down one of the present day pockets!
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 11:36 AM BST
Can you elaborate John, on Parrot and Binghams comments?

Not you as well, on the Barry Hearn lap dog conspiracy, i see Hendry must be in there now as nutters!Laugh
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 11:39 AM BST
Bill Werbeniuk could fit down one of the present day pockets! - don`t Paddy, they will believe you.

Also, it seems a distant memory since 20 stone drunks were rolling in 147`s on those teeny weeny pockets in the 80`s!
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 11:40 AM BST
Parrot - these modern players, they're frightening blah blah the things they can do blah blah...nearly all of them can win the world title now...on an on waffle waffle.

Bingham - tables were playing easy.
Report paddletoe May 5, 2015 11:41 AM BST
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 11:44 AM BST
Angel, if you could sit through the item they did on Barry Hearn during the mid session interval last night and not see the BBC as his unwitting lap dog then there's no hope for you. Hendry i have utmost respect for, but they don't care to seek his real honest views which i'm sure he'd be willing to share if asked.
Report trebor May 5, 2015 11:52 AM BST
So what was wrong, untrue, and what would be Hendry's opinion?
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 11:52 AM BST
John, i have listened to Binghams speech another two times to hear his tables where playing easy comment. Is there another link?

Your Hearn blah blah blah and easy pockets connection is still holds nothing John. What else do you have?
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 11:55 AM BST
Did you imagine it John?
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 11:56 AM BST
Trebor, i'm not saying there was lies or untruths spouted, just that it was ridiculously one-sided. It was as if Barry himself had sponsored and produced the broadcast. There was barely one question or opposing point of view offered when there are plenty of people out there who are critical of aspects of the tour, several pros among them. I think the BBC has a responsibility to investigate and be neutral and this was neither of those things.
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 11:57 AM BST
Angel, Parrot comment had nothing to do with pockets. Only Binghams, and I don't make things up lad.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:01 PM BST
So where is Binghams comment John, i have asked you for a link.
You can interpret Parrots comments to fit your agenda John, you know that.
Probably you are looking into things too much, very much like Binghams cue action wrist movement.
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:07 PM BST
Like to think i'm a fair-minded individual AG, hold opinions that are certainly debatable and if proved wrong, i'll hold my hands up. So i'd only interpret Parrot's comments as to how they were intended, and his point was the strength in depth is incredible now compared to before. I'd take back my waffle comment, that wasn't fair. But i don't agree with him. Just because an outsider won this years worlds, doesn't mean there are suddenly loads more contenders for the world title than there used to be. Outsiders have always popped up every now and again since the 70s.

And granted my technical knowledge of the game is far inferior to yours and other people here, you can have a point on that one Wink
Report trebor May 5, 2015 12:10 PM BST
Ok John that's fair enough, I guess I have to accept that, I suppose can't stand moondan's post's because everything he post's comes from the opposite one sided view.
Though there is a difference between someone changing a sport for the good and another trawling the web to find the odd controversial quote to back up his view.
Report YOMOMMA May 5, 2015 12:16 PM BST
moondan's the only one on here who knows what he is talking about. the game has changed completely. these bucket pockets ruined the tournament for me. i used to be a keen snooker fan but no more. there were balls hitting the near jaw on middle pockets and going in. rather watch pool.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:16 PM BST
John did Bingham say the tables played easy or not?
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:18 PM BST
Thanks trebor, i dont mind us disagreeing on hearn, but we can have a civil discussion about it. He said something in his press conference last week about people who were "a little bit yesterday" and that could be me and moondan he was talking about! The game is changing in ways i dont like, but that's my problem i guess. But i do wish there'd be a little more hard analysis in the media, snooker gets so little coverage these days, i know, but that doesn't mean it all has to be fawning and uncritical.
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:26 PM BST
Ok Angel, i've kept you in suspense long enough.....let the drum roll begin.....ta daaaa!!!

Anyway, maybe just a throwaway comment in the throes of ecstasy...i'm sure you won't be all that impressed, but here it is, scroll to about halfway i'd say, the 5 minute mark or shortly after.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:30 PM BST
That`s a link on Jimmy White, great shot by the way.

Can`t you find the Bingham comment?
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:30 PM BST
anyone who says the tables werent playing easy is deluded or blind imo, some of the sohts we have witnessed dropping in the last 3 weeks have been nothing short of insane
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:33 PM BST
Have you been at your mums medicine cabinet again Grant?
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:33 PM BST

Same thing, 5 mins in
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:34 PM BST
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:34 PM BST
Great pink again JohnLaugh
Report YOMOMMA May 5, 2015 12:35 PM BST
Snooker used to be a game of skill. It's turned in to a game of buckets where it's impossible to miss.
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:36 PM BST
Ok third time lucky!!!

Its near the end on that link, though, 7 mins!!
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:36 PM BST

May 5, 2015 -- 6:33AM, Angel Gabrial wrote:

Have you been at your mums medicine cabinet again Grant?

LaughLaughLaugh angel gabrial in serial denial GrinGrinGrin

Report YOMOMMA May 5, 2015 12:37 PM BST
Stuart Bingham 2015 bucket pockets world champion. Apparently they've given him direct entry to the pool tour and mosconi cup.
Report YOMOMMA May 5, 2015 12:38 PM BST
They'll all be using pool cues at next years world championship. Laugh
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:38 PM BST

May 5, 2015 -- 6:37AM, YOMOMMA wrote:

Stuart Bingham 2015 bucket pockets world champion. Apparently they've given him direct entry to the pool tour and mosconi cup.

hes been given a wildcard spot on the mosconi cup team for december

Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:39 PM BST
ive seen a picture of the trophy and they have in fact engraved the following - 2015 Stuart Bingham (bucket pockets)
Report YOMOMMA May 5, 2015 12:40 PM BST

Pro snooker players do not need such favourable tables. The snooker governing body must think the public just wants to see big breaks all the time.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:43 PM BST
The idiots have descended on Moondans thread, will he be delighted?

New cloths are generous John. We knew that anyway.
Report YOMOMMA May 5, 2015 12:44 PM BST
I'm off to get dressed. Be back later to inform the uniformed such as angel gabrial.
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:45 PM BST

May 5, 2015 -- 6:43AM, Angel Gabrial wrote:

The idiots have descended on Moondans thread, will he be delighted? New cloths are generous John. We knew that anyway.

just watched the bingham interview and he did admit the tables were playing generous, glad someone has admitted it

Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:45 PM BST
"a scorers dream"
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:48 PM BST
`Table ran lovely`
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 12:50 PM BST
Fair enough AG, if that comment doesn't float your boat, but as much respect as I have for good forumites like yourself and experts like El Tel, when i hear it from a guy who has actually played on the tables for two weeks, the horse's mouth as it were, then i sit up and take notice. If i was a journalist there, i'd have wanted to ask more follow up questions, but they dont seem that bothered about one of the tournaments main talking points from what i can see.
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 12:50 PM BST
"tables were playing generous"
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 12:57 PM BST
Interesting that he believes the final table was more generous than the other tables. What does this tell us? all the other matches have been played on less generous tables.

Brand new cloth, balls slide off the cushions. No mention of easy and of course no mention of buckets.
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 1:03 PM BST

May 5, 2015 -- 6:57AM, Angel Gabrial wrote:

Interesting that he believes the final table was more generous than the other tables. What does this tell us? all the other matches have been played on less generous tables.Brand new cloth, balls slide off the cushions. No mention of easy and of course no mention of buckets.

hahahahahaha AG why are u blinded here? the tables clearly played easy, why does this hurt u so much?

Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 1:05 PM BST
Like i said Angel, it begs more questions. Wouldn't you be curious to know what the actual players think about the tables they played on? I know I would. You can say no mention of pockets, that's true, but nor did he actually compare the final table to the other tables, you can't actually assume that to suit your pov.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 1:12 PM BST
Well no previous comments about the tables being generous so obviously this table being the Rolls Royce of all set ups would have impressed him, new shiny Rolls Royce cloth, perfectly level and true. We know that the templates are the same but obviously fine lines between generous and non generous for these pros.
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 1:13 PM BST
"the table played a little bit generous but er he table run lovely erm it was like a scorers dream really" that is exactly what he said AG
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 1:14 PM BST
showing a readiness to give more of something, especially money, than is strictly necessary or expected.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 1:18 PM BST
a little bit

a little bit (adv.)
a bit, a little, a shade, a tiny bit, a touch, a trifle, in some degree, rather, slightly, somewhat, to some extent, a modicumLaugh
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 1:22 PM BST
But how many times were players asked about tables or thought to venture opinions unsolicited? I aint on twitter but i read there have been discussions about the tables going on for a while, with players involved, and lively exchanges of views from both sides. I've no doubt some would back your side while others would take issue. Believe it or not, I'm not even entirely against you AG, just that you are far too readily dismissive of what are perfectly valid questions being raised.
Report trebor May 5, 2015 1:33 PM BST
I remember back in the 80's when I would be in the snooker club all day, the table fitters would come in and replace the cloths and redo the cushions, as soon as they finished I was straight on the table, the pockets where like buckets!!

Are the pockets bigger today? actually I don't know, but if anyone is missing their fix of snooker today have a look at this final from 1997 it was not shown on TV until after midnight so did not get as much attention as it deserved.
It last's over an hour but even after 10 mins you will see there is no difference to today, I was at this final. did I come away thinking "huh they are playing on pool tables", no came away thinking that was brilliant, can't wait to go back again.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 1:33 PM BST

No i am not dismissive but unfortunately the bucket buffoons take over the argument. I obviously don`t mean you. No doubt some set ups play easier than others, but my argument is that even if this be the case it is marginal. Pokermonster will offer more of a scientific angle than most on this and is worth listening to, but so are you John and i don`t discount your opinion and actually agree that players opinions are needed for the viewers.

Davis mentioned that he standard in the 90`s was so good that there was talk of making smaller the templates and that if the modern day player carry`s on like it is then that argument may appear again. Of course these cloths make it an easier game and effects ball drop.
Report stu May 5, 2015 1:34 PM BST
If the tables were easy, why were so many 'scorer' type players messing up - e.g. Trump?
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 1:36 PM BST
trebor knows what he is talking about.
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 1:37 PM BST

May 5, 2015 -- 7:34AM, stu wrote:

If the tables were easy, why were so many 'scorer' type players messing up - e.g. Trump?

how do mean messing up? not winning?

Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 2:38 PM BST
Good stuff trebor, i dont think i've ever seen that match and never knew it was available online, must have a watch later and then I will give THE definitive opinion on how today's tables compare with the 90s Wink

Angel, I imagine Ronnie must have scared a few of the custodians of the game in the 90s with his freakish talent, a bit like golf people calling for courses to be "Tiger proofed" when Woods burst onto the scene in '97. I accept what you say about the game changing and times moving on. Was only reading last night about Spencer playing a 7ft screw back shot off the blue in the 60s and his fellow players looking on in horror. They did not know exactly what they were seeing but they were certain they did not like it!
Report GRANTCKING May 5, 2015 2:40 PM BST
Report gobelins May 5, 2015 8:57 PM BST
The question regarding the tables will probably never be resolved satisfactorily for everyone, but they did seem on the generous side to me (after the opening 5 days). Whether they were actually more generous than other years I don't know, but S.Davis actually alluded to the receptiveness of the pockets during the concluding session of the S.Bingham v J.Trump Semi Final, and J.Parrott quickly admonished him. Parrott certainly isn't a B.Hearn mouthpiece and was quite outspoken about the new qualifying system for The World Championship, which was consistent with his remarks against the lack of importance now attached to being in the top 16. Rightly or wrongly, I would take Parrott's views on the tables as being his actual views.

Regarding gentlemanjohn's points in relation to cross examination of B.Hearn's revolution - it is obviously in the BBC's best interests to state things such as this is the best championship for years, the standard is getting better every year, there's a crop of hungry young players just waiting to burst on the scene etc. They are trying to promote the game and therefore want to promote excellence, or the impression of excellence. We need to accept that part of their role is to attract new viewers to snooker, and in as big a number as possible. Even during the pieces were they had a member of the press in the studio, people like George Riley of 5 live basically pedalled the B.Hearn line without any real debate. But, even allowing for that, are most people really interested in the sort of debates that rage on here? We are, but we're in a minority.

Snooker Scene should be the ideal platform for these debates, but their acceptance of the changes to the UK Championship left me feeling cold, particularly as it followed their acceptance of J.Higgins back to the fold following his ban, including criticism of those at The Crucible who dared to heckle him during his SF against M.Williams.
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 10:06 PM BST
Didnt hear the Davis remarks, but W.Thorne did make a comment about them in one of the q/f matches to the effect that they had been discussing the pockets over breakfast that morning. So it was clearly a major issue that was being discussed feverishly among people here, among commentators and even playres from what i gather, but yet the BBC never saw fit at any stage to address it in a segment even allowing for all the air time they had at their disposal.

As to why, you've answered the question in your post gobelins. Their coverage is aimed at the casual viewer, not the likes of us, so it has to be kept light and airy, no negatives or anything technical must encroach. Call me a cynic but they had 2 weeks in which to air the Barry Hearn as messiah piece, but chose to put it out during the final session when viewing figures would be highest. Obviously, the BBC knows it cannot afford to lose snooker because it is virtually the only sporting thing left in its larder, so part of the deal is allowing itself to be a free promotional wing of Barry Hearn enterprises. C'est la vie I suppose.

I would have an opposing view on the Higgins situation, but haven't paid any heed to SS for years so cant really comment on it. Sad if the edge it had back in its 80s and 90s heyday has been lost, though.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 10:28 PM BST
Hazel was putting it to Davis and Parrot how astonishing the century break count was this year and was wondering if they could put their finger on why it was so high. Davis first of all praised the standard and then went on to mention that the templates for the pockets were the same year in year out but there will be slight margins of difference from fitter to fitter.

And perhaps because there was not a steady upward curve in the increase of century breaks the there was more acceptance this year, and he said perhaps the centre pockets were ever so slightly easier than other years.

John then said `Listen these tables are extremely tough to play on, but these boys are making it look easy`
Report gentlemanjohn May 5, 2015 10:37 PM BST
Cheers AG. I guess they did actually address the issue then. Sort of anyway.
Report Angel Gabrial May 5, 2015 11:01 PM BST
Yes, i thought it interesting that he singled out the middle pockets so something had taken his eye or he had chatted to his brother  or another fitter as to where changes in acceptance are more likely, but they could have done a segment on it and covered the subject more thoroughly.

Davis never mentioned the middle pockets again on his analysis how the finalists where making the game look easy. He mentioned the new cloth helping balls down the rails though.
Report trebor May 5, 2015 11:52 PM BST
I saw a couple of times a ball look certain to drop in the middle pocket, hit the far jaw and stay up, one was in the O'Sullivan, Stevens match, think it was the white that looked certain to fall but stayed up.

And to play devils advocate to the people who have said that they have never seen so many balls rattle in the pocket then drop, for a ball to rattle there needs to be slate under the ball until it drops, so surely that lack of balls rattling would mean easier pockets?
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 12:21 AM BST
You could go through the decades of matches at the Crucible and find hundreds of examples of balls either dropping when they look like they won`t or hanging/teetering when they look they should drop. Perhaps one year the tables play more accepting than other years, but that also includes the 70`s/80`s/90`s/00`s because when you have humans measuring anything, there will be alignment differences and so on. Those fitters in the 70`s were no more accurate than the fitters of today. They also wanted to promote the sport back then as well as the TV boom came rushing. Those old guys didn`t have the best eye sights in the world, so why not make the pockets on the easy side back then. I`m sure there was a little bit of give back then.
Report moondan May 6, 2015 9:26 AM BST
Sorry not to get back to you but my Wife's father has been seriously ill for sometime and not before time it may well mercifully be coming to an end.

I have a few minutes but would like to say I hope you accept my light hearted comments with a smile.

I would like to say that the size of the pocket has some relevence but it becomes something of a red herring but will explain later.

Would like anyones comment on The Parrots observation that great champions of the past like Davis and Hendry would at the age of 22 be able to compete with todays field because they would have been dragged up to this standard.
He also believes that the safety game is a thing of the past because of the standard of play.
In a nutshell its buffoons like him and Davis coming to those conclusions that demean snooker in a time when so many fans are hitting the door in vast numbers and its my case that snooker deserves far better than them to present it.
I think even you would agree that Hendry's seven centuries in his 10-5 victory over Doherty in the UK final is a performance several grades above anything seen before or since and Hendry's list is almost endless and only Ronnie has a performance that might be comparable.
Anyway got to go.
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 10:12 AM BST
Morning Moondan
I know that you have your priorities elsewhere this morning  and my thoughts are with you for that.

Hendry exploded onto the scene without a care for safety play and it was that type of snooker we were witnessing Moondan, would Hendry have done it to a better level, well i think we would agree that he would. From 4-4 to 8-4 Murph`s break building was superb. If it was Hendry you would be salivating.

I didn`t hear Parrot mention Hendry in his comment about players of the past would be dragged up to this standard. It was certainly third shot in the balls snooker, break off, long red, in the balls, everything in the open. It was a combination of that and the tiny generosity of the table which made for one of the best finals we have seen.

The once a year snooker watchers will be impressed by that final Moondan. Winner winner chicken dinner for snooker.
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 10:29 AM BST
Just to add Moondan, that performance by Hendry in the 1994 UK Final is hard to top.
And just to think that it never nearly happened as he only just got past Dean Reynolds 9-8 in the second round and again 9-8 to Ebdon in the semi-final.

Goes to show how he excelled when it mattered.
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 12:58 PM BST
Moondan, sorry to hear of your troubles.

Parrot's assertion isn't provable one way or the other, so it's the type of thing you can say with confidence and get away unchallenged. The only point I would make is you can applaud the attacking snooker and potting prowess of players last week, but ultimately it was Bingham's better safety and mentality that won the title. Just as it wasn't superior potting skills that won last year's championship too. And if he did include Hendry, the idea of the greatest ever player having to raise his standards to meet Bingham and Murphy, no disrespect meant here, is simply laughable.
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 1:04 PM BST
Angel, was goofing around the net and stumbled on what is a quite unusual but interesting quote from J Higgins after a UK Champs game 2013. Throws cat among the pigeons a bit I feel, thought you might like it anyway.

Higgins beat compatriot Burnett 6-2 on table three at the York Barbican Centre, but a 92 in frame nine was his only significant break and he labelled his performance 'continually s***'.
He was angered by Johnson's criticism, though, and put his display down to a difficult table.
'The table's so tight,' he said.
'That's twice I've played on that table and it's so tight.
'The old players would never have made 10 or 20. They're probably sitting there watching and giving you dog's abuse and they'll be saying it on camera.
'But when you see the buckets they used to play in in the 80s, these guys couldn't make 30 or 40.
'We're struggling big time. There are still record breaks and everything but I can just imagine what some of the older players are saying.
'I heard before the tournament Joe Johnson was slating me. If that guy isn't the worst commentator in the world, he's in the top three.
'How he ever got to be world champion, and he can say some of the shots that he does say...
'That game wasn't even on TV, thank God, but I can just imagine what they're all saying.'
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 4:55 PM BST
It would be good if someone would bring this up next time Higgins is interviewed. Get him to elaborate, it`s obviously grudge talk but anyone who uses the term `buckets` should be ignored.
Report GRANTCKING May 6, 2015 5:22 PM BST
hes bang on recording johnson, the guy is a hopless commenator, no idea how he has a job
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 5:41 PM BST
And lets not forget his pal Mike Hallett got up to 6 in the world. Not sure if Mike would have coped with the one chance snooker we see these days. I doubt he could be dragged up to todays standards.
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 6:26 PM BST
It would be good if someone would bring this up next time Higgins is interviewed. Get him to elaborate, it`s obviously grudge talk but anyone who uses the term `buckets` should be ignored.

Er, well Higgins used the term himself, so presumably he's to be ignored as much as the rest of them? To be honest, i only posted the quote to illustrate the divergent, polarising viewpoints you can find on this topic if you delve deeply enough. It wasn't to offer a slam-dunk for any particular side.
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 7:31 PM BST
I was aware of these comments John, it all seems a tad throw away or tongue in cheek from Higgins. Although someone should sit him down and grill him. In the same room you could have table fitters from the last 5 decades with their cushion undercut dimensions, fall dimensions, cushion block dimensions, fall dimensions, middle pocket lay out dimensions and other comparisons.
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 9:37 PM BST
You'd have to have been there, I suppose, to appreciate how the comments were intended, but they dont read obviously tongue in cheek to me, maybe more heat of the moment, but they certainly do beg further questions. After hearing and reading so many comments about the pockets having apparently gotten bigger, i found it interesting and more than a little bit amusing to encounter a former world champ proclaim they had, in fact, got smaller!
Report Pokermonster May 6, 2015 10:17 PM BST
It's probably something like when you first take your own children to the same primary school you attended yourself, everything looks unbelievably tiny.
Report gobelins May 6, 2015 10:35 PM BST
gentlemanjohn - the big problem I had with Snooker Scene's stance on J.Higgins was that the incident came about just after B.Hearn had re-taken the reigns of the game, and I suspect Snooker Scene did not want to alienate him straight away by inflicting further damage on the sport. Higgins was interviewed by Hazel about it following his ban, but in true BBC style the questions were not of the probing nature they should have been and then there was barely any further mention of it. I believe this, along with Snooker Scene's passive stance was the reason some fans took matters into their own hands (or voices) during his match with M.Williams.

There is no point debating the rights and wrongs of the whole saga and the length of his ban, but for me 6 months was totally wrong. If there was no case to answer, then there should have been no ban. If there was a case to answer then the ban should have been longer.
Report Pokermonster May 6, 2015 10:41 PM BST
Very true, Gobelins.
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 10:43 PM BST
People who have seen Kylie close up in the are very surprised at how small she is because she fills up there TV screen.

It`s the same the bucket squad viewers who watch the snooker from their rocking chairs.

John, Higgins will be the first and perhaps last to say the pockets are smaller than decades gone by. The fact that he chose the term `buckets` leads me to believe it was tongue in cheek, poking some fun at JJ.
Report Pokermonster May 6, 2015 10:52 PM BST
Good evening, AG.

Alex Higgins (who I played twice, incidentally) was complaining about the generosity of the pockets at the Crucible as far back as 1979.
Report Pokermonster May 6, 2015 10:53 PM BST
As we both know, this is a debate that has been raging for four decades at least.
Report Pokermonster May 6, 2015 11:03 PM BST
Alex used to complain that the pockets at The Crucible were far more generous than those he used to play on at The Jampot in his youth, and thus unfair on the more precise player like himself.
Report Angel Gabrial May 6, 2015 11:16 PM BST
Good evening PM

I know of a couple of players that have been through the qualifiers to reach the first round at the Crucible and there was a common consensus as far back to the early 90`s( when one of the players qualified) that the qualifying tables were playing ever so slightly harder than the first round tables when Hendry was in his pomp.
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 11:24 PM BST
Ok Angel, on reflection you're probably right, buckets doesn't sound like a word a pro would be throwing out in a serious press conference.

PM a font of wisdom as usual, any chance of more details on your jousts with the greatest snooker player of them all, feck what the stats say ;)
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 11:28 PM BST
Gobelins, that is a very perceptive post. Without rehashing old history, I've always been of the opinion that the case against Higgins was weak and any longer than a 6 month ban would have been wrong. And maybe that in itself was a bit of a cop out, but can you imagine the hullabaloo that would have ensued had he got off scot free? My guess is the chap's life wouldn't have been worth living.

When i see the vitriol being flung at Higgins on here and elsewhere, it makes me laugh. Not because I have any particular liking for the guy - I don't mind him one way or the other - but because there are several other players who are equally if not more worthy of suspicion when it comes to match-fixing than Higgins, yet i never hear anything being said about them. If it's purely on the basis of a false and discredited tabloid sting, then it's all a bit irrational if you ask me.

If memory serves, wasn't it just one disaffected punter who had a go at him during the Williams match? The majority of the crowd cheered as the gentleman was escorted towards the exit?
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 11:34 PM BST
As regards Snooker Scene, I don't know enough, but it can be hard for people when they are consistently outside the fold. It's the old thing of being outside the tent pissing in or inside pissing out. The former offers more integrity but a harder way to make a living. Like being the editor of the Racing Post when a big story involving Coolmore breaks and you're thinking of all the advertising those baxtards control. Not that that's an excuse or anything, but it's a harder game than punters will often give credit for.
Report Pokermonster May 6, 2015 11:42 PM BST
Good evening, John.

The first time I played Alex was at the G Mex Arena in Manchester on 26th May 1989, as a Liverpool supporter I remember the date all too well.  I was the pool professional on a trade stand and Alex was there as a guest of Rothmans.  He came across to me and said something along the lines of "here's where I put you in your place, sunshine."  Considering I had been playing on the table for two days solid it was quite a boast and I beat him quite comfortably, six or seven frames to two.  At this point he returned to type and started getting aggressively obnoxious, challenging me to frames of snooker (giving me 21 start) for £200 a pop.  Being well aware that he would surely beat me every frame even with double that advantage, I had to politely decline.  Cue more unseemly insults.  The last I saw of Alex on that particular day was as he was bodily carried out of the building by the Piccadilly Hotel doormen during an evening's entertainment hosted by The Brother Lees.

The second time was in Bristol at the Redwood Lodge during some sort of qualifying event.  £100 best of three on the pool table.
Report gentlemanjohn May 6, 2015 11:59 PM BST
PM, thanks for sharing that, fantastic story, 2 days i remember very clearly in my life even though alcoholic hazes and blackouts were a common feature - the hillsborough tragedy and Alex beating Hendry in the irish masters 2 months earlier...i think we all knew that was as good as it was ever going to get!

Does sound as if you caught Alex on one of his good days though Wink
Report Pokermonster May 7, 2015 12:05 AM BST
Indeed, John.  Alex was a great snooker player and one of the game's truly memorable characters.  Away from the table, alas, he was a damned nuisance.
Report thegiggilo May 10, 2015 3:16 AM BST
I'd rather have 1 alex Higgins than 10 o'sullivans,higgins was value in every way even if he played poorly the fact he was an alcoholic and caused controversy just made it even better.Wink
Report kenco May 10, 2015 1:36 PM BST
Snookers was not about knocking on ton's in manholes when alex was around!CoolCool
Report Angel Gabrial May 11, 2015 12:50 PM BST
Higgins was a freak but the standard has improved now that they only have single vision.
BTW never google `manhole`Shocked
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