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12 Mar 11 17:22
Date Joined: 10 Feb 11
| Topic/replies: 6 | Blogger: gregavfc's blog
What's bet fairs stance on refunds? I had £100 bet that I couldn't traded out on, not my fault, I had to sit there and watch it go in front of me, and then insult to injury, the site goes back up ten mins after kick off! I took screenshots etc... SURELY they have to offer refunds? If you were at a restaurant and they couldn't cook your meal, would you have to pay?!
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Report saddle sniffer March 12, 2011 6:18 PM GMT
the two words you will get work out im afraid at 50£ each no+bye legalised robbery is the biz here
Report Yabbadabbadont March 12, 2011 6:50 PM GMT
The argument will be that you would expect a full payout had the £100 bet come off without you needing to trade it.

You'll have to see if they void all bets on all markets.  That's gonna be the only way to get your money back.  They won't do things on an individual basis.
Report gregavfc March 12, 2011 7:03 PM GMT
If I was going for an out and out punt, I'd have gone to the bookies. I use bet fair as it advertises itself as an 'in play betting exchange'. I couldn't do either of these things (bet in play, or trade), through no fault of my own. It's scandalous.
Report LuisGarcia March 13, 2011 12:08 PM GMT
Totally agree gregavfc. Betfair promote the in-play exchange facilities and clearly couldn't deliver yesterday. They really should consider refunding all open positions that were closed by the time the site came back.

I opened a £400 trading position on the cricket yesterday, couldn't trade for the final 2 and a half hours and ended with a loss of 40% of my bank. The game was over by the time the site was back up.
Report Round March 13, 2011 12:20 PM GMT
Betfair continues to take the biscuit. If they dont sort out these issues they'll soon lose their almost monopolistic like position in betting exchanges.
Report gerard March 13, 2011 12:24 PM GMT
Round, theoretically you should be right - the trouble is your statement could have been made five years ago, and probably will be again five years from now.
Report greytroot1 March 13, 2011 12:25 PM GMT
hey guys - notice the betfair gurus dont give a sh!t - no reply - no real customer service!
Report maggot March 13, 2011 12:47 PM GMT
I know for a fact that people got refunded yesterday, so don't let them walk all over you. Fight, and keep fighting
Report Betfair Community Manager 2 March 13, 2011 4:18 PM GMT
All - here's a full explanation and apology following yesterday's problems:

On Saturday March 12, from 14:05 through 20:01, Betfair's website failed. We know how frustrating this is for our customers and offer our sincere apologies to all affected.

We are now looking at ways in which we can make up Saturday’s events to you.

We are working as hard as possible to ensure Betfair offers as reliable a site as possible. In a normal week we make at least 15 changes to the Betfair website but we have resolved not to release any new products or features for the next seven days. This should give maximum stability throughout a busy week that includes the Cheltenham Festival, cricket World Cup and Champions League football.

Below is an explanation of what went wrong and what we have done to fix the issue.

When the website failed on Saturday, our first step was to disable Betfair for all our customers on the web, API and mobile services.  Once we identified the actual problem, we determined that we needed our website "available" but with betting disallowed.  We recovered the site internally around 18:00 and re-enabled betting as of 20:00 once we were certain it was stable.

Here is what actually happened:

After performing certain types of website changes, an issue developed that caused our servers to temporarily slow down, processing just one thing at a time (single threading) instead of thousands of user requests in parallel.  This "single threading" behaviour was introduced some time ago to protect against occasional broken pages caused by serving content while it is changing.  In tech speak, our servers weren't thread-safe on certain types of content changes.

This has been an operational concern for several weeks as our traffic has reached record volumes week after week.  While we had several operational protections in place to limit these types of changes during peak load, we missed an important one.  Every 15 minutes, an automated process was publishing exactly the type of content that triggers the issue described above.  Yesterday we hit a tipping point as the web servers reached a point where it was taking longer than 15 minutes to complete their update - essentially rendering the servers unusable.

Then in an attempt to quickly shed load, we triggered a process to disable some of the computationally intensive features on the site.  Unfortunately, the way this was done triggered a complete recompile of every page on our site, for every user, in every locale.  Under our normal Saturday usage, recovery took several hours.

After spotting the pattern, we've recognised this has been going on with varying impact since February 8, 2011.  During periods of increased user traffic, our customers would experience this issue in the form of slow navigation or a "sticky" user experience.  Yesterday was simply a tipping point, made worse by our recovery attempt.

We've fixed this problem now.  We've disabled the original automated job and rebuilt it to update content safely.  We've tripled the capacity of our web server farm to spread our load even more thinly. We've fixed our process for disabling features so that we won't make things worse. We've updated our operational processes and introduced a whole new raft of monitoring to spot this type of issue.  We've also isolated the underlying web server issue so that we can change our content at will without triggering the switch to single-threading.

We believe these changes will bring the stability we all desire and thank you for your continued custom.

Yours faithfully,

Niall Wass – Chief Marketing & Development Officer
Tony McAlister – Chief Technology Officer
Report LuisGarcia March 13, 2011 4:31 PM GMT
"We are now looking at ways in which we can make up Saturday’s events to you." Can you expand on this please ?
Report gregavfc March 13, 2011 5:39 PM GMT
There is only one way youncan make it up to us, nothing else will do
Report LuisGarcia March 13, 2011 6:39 PM GMT
The official response below is not accurate. I was able to place bets after 14.05 (after the website failed) and had those bets settled before 18.00 (the time the site was apparently recovered internally).

IMO refunds on all losers for in-running markets ended during the outage should be paid by Betfair out of their own pocket.
Report Mawonga March 13, 2011 6:54 PM GMT
lol boy am i glad i was out shopping yesterday when sh*t hit the fan.

the site still seems a little slow
Report bulmers04 March 13, 2011 7:03 PM GMT
What a load of BS that statement and 'apology' is. Lost 600 quid due to their incompetence. How the f**k are they going to make it up to me. Give me back my money? I wouldnt recomend Betfair's dog to anyone let alone a friend after the way my bet was handled yesterday. Disgusted, but like many others will continue to use the 'service', until any sort of viable alternative comes along.
Report jmax001 March 13, 2011 7:30 PM GMT
Sorry to hear that Bulmars04 - I myself lost £800 due to not being able to close my position. In any other business you would get a refund when the product/service fails. I have e-mailed B/f asking for same, if the response is no I will be going to their Regulator and Trading Standards. If you advertise your service as 'in-play' it should be in-play. If you are a big listed company you should have a disaster recovery plan.

Let me quote what B/f states in it's corporate website under 'integrity': ''Betfair's key objectives are to ensure fairness to the punter, protect the young and vulnerable and keep out crime. Betfair applies these principles to all jurisdictions in which the company operates.''

Fairness? Really? Fairness would be to void the markets immediately - will you probably not. I e-mailed the Racing Post today requesting their assistance. Perhaps everyone should 'short' on their share price when the market opens tomorrow, if they wont listen to the individual maybe they will listen to the shareholders complaining about their falling share price.
Report jmax001 March 13, 2011 7:50 PM GMT
Report jmax001 March 13, 2011 7:51 PM GMT
Bombard their Investor Relation line tomorrow - For any investor-related queries please contact Mark Brooker at:

Or call +44 (0) 208 834 8000.

Let the Execs know what kind of shambles they are presiding over
Report curious-cat March 13, 2011 11:07 PM GMT
I put £88 on France expecting to be able to trade in running

at half time I rang Betfair customer services and was told the site would be up and running shortly.

This prevented me from going elsewhere to open an account with another exchange.

On another exchange I'm told that FRance traded for £40,000 at 1.01.

result I lost £88 - though I could have had much more on - I had no indication that the site was going to fail.

All markets where customers were unable to access the market during the time betfair was down should be voided.

We are now looking at ways in which we can make up Saturday’s events to you.

£88 would be a start !
Report curious-cat March 13, 2011 11:12 PM GMT
After the match I rang customer services and the person I spoke to referred to 'terms and conditions ' no matter what I was saying.

I had no argument with their terms and conditions - only that in these instances markets should be voided.

An exchange means you bet and lay - sometimes you leave the lay in running.

Either you are a bookmakers or you are an exchange and offer full facilities.
Report curious-cat March 13, 2011 11:15 PM GMT
If you are unable to offer trading options for a market - void all bets.
Report wit-ham March 14, 2011 9:02 AM GMT
curious same here although i'm not a big punter i had £15 on france on handicap looking to trade out for 5/6£ profit backed at 1.89 must have traded around (would have)1.25/1.3 when a few infront
Report lufc1962 March 14, 2011 10:08 AM GMT
if any one gets any kind of refund i will suck my own c0ck.......they are the gods that sit in the betfair penthouses reaping the rewards..we are the mugs that put up with this cr..ap.....end of story...[smiley:crazy]
Report fallenangel March 14, 2011 10:28 AM GMT
nobody will get a refund. i would say odds of getting a refund are about 1000/1 (but make sure you place that bet elsewhere cos betfair will probably crash again!!)
Report scouser1804 March 14, 2011 11:39 AM GMT
lufc how do you suck your own c0ck. can you tell me how to do it please
Report curlywurly March 14, 2011 12:09 PM GMT
if any one gets any kind of refund i will suck my own c0ck

better get sucking then

mr big bollox gets stuck on the cricket match, loses 100k - you think betfair are going to tell him tough luck?

the big guys will get looked after absolutely no doubt - the rest of us will have to lump it though
Report wit-ham March 14, 2011 1:06 PM GMT
lufc how do you suck your own c0ck. can you tell me how to do it please

the trick is to get your back up against a wall then you throw your legs over your shoulders  simples
Report Gray999897 March 14, 2011 2:44 PM GMT
I was in a similar position - £3,000 on France (a lot for me) and just had to watch while the French threw away a 18-6 lead with no way to lay it (my disposable money was all in my Betfair account).  Gutted.

Very disappointed with the Betfair response as well which seems to be basically, "tough luck and you should have read the terms and conditions better".  gregavfc is spot on as well - if Betfair is advertising itself as an "in-play betting exchange" then it should have back-up plans or refund punters that get caught out.
Report greytroot1 March 14, 2011 3:13 PM GMT
betfair response - eh - wisnae us - it wassomebody else - hope it won't happen again - gies yer money!
Report Ghetto Joe March 14, 2011 6:16 PM GMT
Report boavista March 14, 2011 8:12 PM GMT
Why didn't you have another betting exchange account as a back up?
Report curious-cat March 14, 2011 9:21 PM GMT
I do now.
Report curious-cat March 14, 2011 9:23 PM GMT
always thought the liquidity would be poor ...... prob is about 1/4 of betfair on today's racing ........ but I was doing both bets and lays and was consistently getting better prices elsewhere.
Report curious-cat March 14, 2011 9:30 PM GMT

refunding commission to all customers on certain events does little or nothing to those customers who were expecting to trade on Saturday and lost money.

There are customers with specific grievances which are not being addressed.
Report curious-cat March 14, 2011 9:33 PM GMT
Betfair seem to be doing their utmost to pss off their customers and raise the profile of their competition.

Report Turtletrunks March 14, 2011 11:33 PM GMT
I was waiting with interest to see what they'd come up with. This is actually more 'generous' than I'd expected, but is still massively short of what it should be. I'm sticking with Bet Daq and would encourage others to do the same.
Report the silverback March 17, 2011 10:47 AM GMT
This commission refund is a PROMOTION, not compensation. They mention it somewhere on their website as a "UNIQUE OFFER"

"Exclusive Offer: Enjoy commission refund on top markets this week

Celebrate a bumper week of betting with a unique offer that means you won't pay commission on selected markets.

As one of the biggest betting weeks of the year gets underway Betfair are delighted to offer customers a 100% commission refund"

Report curious-cat March 17, 2011 9:44 PM GMT
today I received a commission refund of 48p

100-Site Outage Goodwill - Chelt 13:30 Jewson Nov Chs ADJ17 '
Report curious-cat March 17, 2011 9:49 PM GMT
Does anyone who matters understand betfair is an exchange and not a bookmakers ?

If someone is trading on a market and the site goes down which prevents them from carrying on trading there is a good chance there is an imbalance which if the result goes the wrong way leaves them with a loss the amount of which they would never intend taking with a bet.

I lose £88 - because the market is not voided when the site suddenly stopped working - I get a refund of 48p .......

and that's supposed to make me feel better ! !
Report LuisGarcia March 17, 2011 9:55 PM GMT
curious, I have raised the same trading argument via email today.

Got a reply inside 10 mins!

"we cannot always guarantee the site will be available to trade your position should you wish to.  This is well documented in our terms and conditions. "
Report greytroot1 March 18, 2011 9:09 AM GMT
time to leave betfair - until this situation is resolved i will not be using them again in any shape or form - oh and glad to see APAT move away too.
Report LuisGarcia March 18, 2011 5:24 PM GMT
For those wannabe traders not previously aware here are the relevant terms and conditions as currently stated on the Betfair website...

"We are not liable for the failure of any equipment or software howsoever caused, wherever located or administered, or whether under our direct control or not, that may prevent the operation of the Services, impede the placing of offers for bets or the matching of bets, or prevent you from being able to contact us.

Please be aware that if you place a bet with the intention of subsequently placing a separate bet to reduce the liability incurred by the initial bet, there can never be a guarantee that the Services will be available at the point you wish to place the subsequent bet (this is the case regardless of whether or not the unavailability of the Services is due to a matter beyond our reasonable control)."

Basically if you are trading on Betfair and the system crashes (again) you need to find an alternative place to offset any potential losses.
Report curious-cat March 27, 2011 11:14 AM BST
I accept that but have two quibbles ...........

1) I rang at HT in a match where I had done a bet with a view to a lay and was told by Betfair customer Services that it would soon be up nd running - as I had no alternative account I held on and by the time I realised the market wasn't going to be put ir there wasn't enough time to open one. [ when I did open one in time for a later match that day it took around twenty minutes to do so ]

2) we were told they could have put said market up but not all users ( ipad ?) could access it and that that would be unfair !! 

In response to the latter once a market is available anyone can phone up to use the market can't they ?

Isn't that better than not putting it up at all ? ?Confused
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