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Angoose
10 Oct 19 03:01
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Date Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 24,312 | Blogger: Angoose's blog
England's Rugby World Cup Pool C match against France on Saturday has been called off because of Typhoon Hagibis.

World Rugby is expected to provide official confirmation of the cancellation at 04:00 BST on Thursday.

Hagibis is moving towards Japan and expected to make landfall on Saturday.

England were due to meet France in Yokohama. There is no news yet on Scotland's Pool A match against Japan, which is scheduled to take place in the same stadium on Sunday.

If the Scotland-Japan match was to be cancelled, under tournament rules Gregor Townsend's side are likely be knocked out of the World Cup.

Cancelled matches are declared a draw with both sides awarded two points each.

England and France have already qualified for the quarter-finals and their match was due to decide top spot in Pool C.

The cancellation means Eddie Jones' side, who lead the French by two points, will progress as winners and face a probable quarter-final against Australia, with Wales expected to top Pool D and therefore play France.

Scotland are third in Pool A on 10 points with leaders Japan on 14 and need to beat the hosts to go through, potentially relying on bonus points.

If second-placed Ireland beat Samoa in Fukuoka on Saturday, a weather-enforced two-point haul would mean Scotland finish third in Pool A and go out.

It has been suggested Scotland's match with Japan could delayed by 24 hours, even though that would be against tournament rules.

BBC weather presenter and meteorologist Simon King said Hagibis is "one of the most powerful tropical cyclones this year".

World Rugby tournament director Alan Gilpin and Akira Shimazu, chief executive of Japan Rugby 2019, are due to attend Thursday's 04:00 news conference.

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Replies: 43
By:
Angoose
When: 10 Oct 19 04:03
New Zealand v Italy cancelled
By:
Angoose
When: 10 Oct 19 04:05
Sunday matches will continue to be reviewed
By:
Angoose
When: 10 Oct 19 04:35
Saturday Matches

New Zealand v Italy   CANCELLED  2pts awarded to each side
England v France  CANCELLED  2pts awarded to each side
Ireland v Samoa  Match will proceed


Sunday Matches

Namibia v Canada
USA v Tonga
Wales v Uruguay
Japan v Scotland   NB Scheduled to be played at same stadium as the cancelled England v France match

All subject to review

Not looking good for Scotland, they are going to use the cancellation of the New Zealand v Italy match as the precedent for no rescheduling.
Theoretically, Italy could have qualified had they beaten the All Blacks.
By:
TGMTEL
When: 10 Oct 19 05:37
would be very unlucky if the Scots go out because of this Typhoon Haggis.
By:
Reveen
When: 10 Oct 19 05:44
We wait four years for this. At least move the matches.
By:
diceroller17
When: 10 Oct 19 06:08
How will they settle the 1X2 market on these games? From my reading of the T&Cs the draw should pay out. Thoughts?
By:
Reveen
When: 10 Oct 19 06:13
Void.
By:
Reveen
When: 10 Oct 19 06:17
In April Crusaders-Highlanders was cancelled due to the Christchurch shootings and recorded as a draw for competition points recording. However it's void for betting purposes as the match was never played.
By:
elisjohn
When: 10 Oct 19 06:28
AGREE REVEEN , MOVE THE MATCHES, ive watched nearly all the  matches so far and most not the most competitive  and when getting to some nitty gritty important matches they might be called off , god sake theyve still 2 days , and even why not try and play them early next week anyway .
By:
Reveen
When: 10 Oct 19 06:55
Spot on. I will also add that the media have lauded the Japenese contingency plans throughout. Yet now all they've done is cancel matches? Joke.
By:
Latalomne
When: 10 Oct 19 07:44
WALOFS Cry
By:
bardo
When: 10 Oct 19 11:26
so....what happenes now to top points scorer and top try scorer markets

say for example if someone has backed Jonny May or Owen Farrell

surely they will have to be voided now as some runners and riders will now have 1 game less in which to play and score and will only play 6 games as opposed to other teams who have 7 games

this gives players whose games aren't cancelled a big advantage in those markets
By:
sageform
When: 10 Oct 19 12:14
The rules published before they started were clear apparently. Group games cancelled for any reason would mean 2 tournament points each and 0-0 score. It is very similar to the rules for world cup cricket. The only debate now is what leads to cancellation and when are decisions taken? Presumably the forecast is certain enough to decide on Thursday that Saturday play is not possible apart from in Fukuoka. Logically they should be able to predict if Sundays game is possible by tomorrow. The world cup is organised by World rugby and the director is English. The Japanese might try to put pressure on to play or cancel but it is not their call. What is their call is whether the weather conditions allow a game to be played safely.
As far as try scorers etc, it is no different from cricket or football. If a game is cancelled nobody scores anything. The rules are not designed for online punters nor should they be.
By:
Latalomne
When: 10 Oct 19 12:20
The piece I read this morning said that a decision on Sunday's matches would be made a minimum of 6 hours prior to kick off and would be based more around damage caused by the hit rather than a continued threat.
By:
padlock
When: 10 Oct 19 12:23
Walofs , had a few top tryscorertournament bets on NZ players, shirly voided now ? Playing one game less , ffs stupid organisers , should rearranged venues for them games at risk even if it meant no fans at games imo
By:
sageform
When: 10 Oct 19 12:42
Your argument is with the betting company, not with World Rugby.
By:
elisjohn
When: 10 Oct 19 12:47
top tryscorer markets for the tournament will not be affected, only markets that will be void is on the actual matches abandoned. your bets on say J MAY FOR TOP SCORER WILL NOT BE VOIDED
By:
SlippyBlue
When: 10 Oct 19 13:49
My brother and his wife are out there in Japan and had tickets for the England v France game Sad
By:
theowalcott
When: 10 Oct 19 14:16
Rugby Union and Rugby League
'Tournament points' and 'tournament tries' bets will apply to all playing time, including any extra-time in any match where an official result is declared.
For 'time of first try' bets, if the try is scored in the second half, the first half is deemed to have lasted 40 minutes, regardless of stoppage-time. If no try is scored, or the try is scored in second half stoppage-time or extra-time, the result is 80.
For the purpose of markets involving tries, penalty tries will count with the exception of 'first individual try scorer' markets where penalty tries will not count.
If a match starts but is abandoned before its completion, all bets will be void unless an official result is declared by the applicable governing body. Where an official result has been declared by the official governing body, that official result will govern match and handicap market settlement but all other markets will be void unless their result has already been determined at the point of abandonment (i.e. at the point of abandonment, it would not have been possible for the outcome of the bet to change had the match continued to its natural conclusion). By way of example, if 37 points have been scored at the time a match is abandoned: (i) a bet placed on 35 points or more to be scored would be settled as a winning bet, (ii) a bet placed on 30-35 points to be scored would be settled as a losing bet and (iii) a bet placed on 40-45 points to be scored would be void. In such circumstances, bets on last tryscorer / team to score last / team to score last try / last scoring play would all be void.
By:
theowalcott
When: 10 Oct 19 14:25
i dont think the current rules are too clear and this awarding a 0-0 and 2 points only happens in world cup to my knowledge

if game kicked off and was abandoned 30 seconds in then i reckon match would be settled as a 0-0 draw or whatever world rugby dictated.

with the matches not even kicking off i can only assume all bets were void(apart from will game be played)
expect betfair will update their rules to reflect that

last night before official decision could lay the dray at 9/1 midnight 3/1 2 am, i fully expected the game to be off, but my thinking was lay the draw at these short prices... game called off then obviously void(even tho the rules and market price didnt make it clear), game somehow plays can back the draw at 30/1 or whatever and make a bundle

i left well alone as almost lost 6k on world cup cricket when rain came
so just bet england group winner elsewhere which paid out

wish id bet japan group winner at 6/5 now as its a bet with big upside if game  cancelled, and can lay it for small loss if game played
By:
theowalcott
When: 10 Oct 19 14:26
can someone please confirm if they voided all bets?
By:
theowalcott
When: 10 Oct 19 14:30
Rugby World Cup 2019- Cancelled Games
England Vs. France and New Zealand Vs. Italy both scheduled for Saturday 12th October have been cancelled. All bets on these games will be void.

just saw this

i expect that betfair rules on rugby will soon include a line about bets void if not played and 0-0 draw awarded in future to remove any chance of confusion

fully agree with the voiding fair thing to do
but the old rules dont cover it and spell it out
if youd laid the draw for 1000s youd have a sweat on
and also judging by ho long betfair left market up suspended after the decision i reckon they had some doubt over whether the old rules allowed voiding
By:
Reveen
When: 10 Oct 19 17:20
As I mentioned above the precedent has already occurred this season with Crusaders-Highlanders being called off, declared a draw for competition points and voided. It was comical seeing the draw firm to single figures on even non-cancelled matches like JPN-SCO for a while there.
By:
hunt lunt and cunningham
When: 11 Oct 19 11:06
Its a shame folks are bickering on here when peoples lives are in danger and homes will be destroyed .  I know no one is being nasty
but can you imagine if it was happening here and other people in different parts of the world were just worried about how their bets stand .
By:
Latalomne
When: 11 Oct 19 13:30
In the defence of us 'Poms', I doubt many of us have ever experienced anything like a typhoon, let alone the death and destruction that can accompany one. 

According to ITV, if the Scotland game is cancelled on Sunday, there is NO scope to delay it 24 hrs.  There is potential for it to go ahead in an empty stadium, apparently.
By:
Reveen
When: 11 Oct 19 14:05
The typhoon's name is very similar to the word haggis, no?
By:
Whisperingdeath
When: 11 Oct 19 14:19
Very sad this for some of the players bowing out of International Rugby, sad for the fans out there, sad for us and particularly hard on some entrepreneurial pub owners who were expecting to make a bit of bunce with lock ins.

What is particularly hard to swallow if getting lectured by football fans. Our time will come when we go to Qatar for the Association World Cup! We have seen how popular the World Athletics Championships have been from there!

I just wonder if they could have made some provision for a couple of days for delayed matches to be played under cover. I appreciate there may still be infrastructure and transport problems in a Typhoon area but Monday and Tuesday could have been given over.

It would be easy to knock RWC but the Tournament is usually played around this time of year from memory. It is great that it has been taken to Japan and let's hope it grows out there.

The only good thing to come out of this is to hear whinging Scots!
By:
elisjohn
When: 11 Oct 19 15:34
just one thing about the rwc  its too long, and far too much un competitive matches, its great that little teams are in , but maybe , 4 groups of 4, ok  4 teams would miss out . then teams would have 1 less group game,and the length would be shortened by at least a week, and also definetly then much more competitive group matches.
By:
ImSoLuckyLucky!
When: 11 Oct 19 18:20
Typhoon being compared with 1958 when
1200 people died
30 inches of rain and 40 foot waves expected

Im sure the rugby can cope with that


Grin
By:
spyker
When: 12 Oct 19 10:20
I do hope samoa beat ire - the Scots legal threat etc will soon melt away if they do...........
By:
Angoose
When: 12 Oct 19 10:24
Revealed: Typhoon contingency plan was to move matches 14 miles away
• Yokohama’s backup venue was the nearby Tokyo Stadium
• Oita and Sapporo explored too late in wake of Typhoon Hagibis

World Rugby’s failure to properly prepare for Japan’s extreme weather can be revealed with World Cup organisers initially making plans to move England v France and other matches in Yokohama to Tokyo Stadium – just 14 miles away.

Super Typhoon Hagibis has wreaked havoc on the World Cup with England’s Pool C decider in Yokohama cancelled and Scotland’s pivotal match with Japan, scheduled to take place in the same stadium on Sunday, in serious jeopardy. Hagibis is due to hit Tokyo and Yokohama on Saturday night local time and is forecast to be one of the most violent in recent history. It is measured at 870 miles wide.

But despite years to come up with extensive contingency plans, with the tournament director, Alan Gilpin, insisting in 2018 that the threat of natural disasters was “a really hot topic for us”, it is understood that before the emergence of Hagibis, organisers considered the nearby Tokyo Stadium the most suitable alternative to Yokohama.

When that inevitably became impossible, organisers hurriedly explored moving England’s match to Oita, more than 500 miles away on the south island of Kyushu. Ultimately it was decided that was not logistically viable nor safe for travelling supporters at such short notice.

World Rugby has repeatedly insisted it has “robust contingency plans” but has not expanded any further and on Thursday, when it was confirmed England’s match with France and New Zealand’s encounter with Italy were cancelled, Gilpin revealed there were not any in place for Scotland’s game against Japan.

Tens of thousands of supporters have been left in limbo in Tokyo and Yokohama and while they will receive a full refund for their match tickets, World Rugby will not reimburse any travel costs. The fact organisers considered a stadium 14 miles away would initially be an appropriate alternative venue raises huge question marks over World Rugby’s contingency planning.

Had Oita, or Sapporo – 700 miles north of Yokohama – been designated as alternatives in the first place cancelled matches could have been avoided. “We always knew there would be risks but it’s rare for there to be a typhoon of this size at this stage of the year,” said Gilpin on Thursday. “We have no regrets.”

In the absence of any contingency plans, Scotland v Japan will either take place on Sunday or be cancelled. Scotland, who face elimination if the match is called off, have countered by insisting the match should go ahead, even if it has to be behind closed doors. The Scottish union has also threatened legal action if the match is not played.

England and France have both adopted philosophical approaches to their cancellation. England have headed to south to Miyazaki, where they held a pre-tournament camp, for the weekend. Eddie Jones had initially wanted to use Miyazaki as a base during the tournament, flying in and out to host cities.

On Friday, clear of Hagibis’s path, England went through a light fitness session and are set to increase their workouts on Saturday in an effort to account for not having a match. All 31 players are set to train in some capacity on Saturday but players still nursing injuries, such as Billy Vunipola, are not expected to take a full part.
By:
Angoose
When: 12 Oct 19 10:30
So, it appears that only when they realised there were no feasible contingency options did they fall back to taking a hard line of hiding behind the tournament rules.

Let's hope that the typhoon causes minimal damage and zero loss of life.
We'll worry about a game of rugby after that.

Meanwhile, the Scottish Rugby Union would do well to cease all public talk of legal action.
By:
Reveen
When: 12 Oct 19 10:39
Their contingency was a stadium 14 miles away? What fools.
By:
sixtwosix
When: 12 Oct 19 11:19
Not one word of criticism on the television (no surprise there) of the inept failure to have a plan B .

Can you imagine the football world cup cancelling a game and telling team A you are out even though if you beat team B you would advance.
By:
elisjohn
When: 12 Oct 19 13:33
well to be fair japan deserve a q final spot more than the scots if it gets called off
By:
Angoose
When: 12 Oct 19 13:36
That is somewhat subjective with the sequencing of matches and the choice of venues playing a significant role in arriving at the current state of affairs.
By:
Latalomne
When: 13 Oct 19 06:40
Namibia v Canada is off, everything else goes ahead.
By:
spyker
When: 13 Oct 19 10:03
Oh dear - all that Scotch moaning for nowt, at least the whole world now wants Scot to lose badly.
By:
Angoose
When: 13 Oct 19 10:10
Moaning is never in vain Grin
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