New Zealand Vs Ireland 3rd Test

I would understand your angst if he was picked in the centre.

His strike rate for Ireland on the wing is quite good.

And frankly I would pick pretty much everyone ahead of Trimble.

Why has Goldenballs been handed the 8 shirt?

I know SOB has really improved his game at 7 and is going well, but clearly would be happier and better used at 8.  I can't imagine he is happy not to have got the shirt.

POM was on the bench in the 6 Nations as a 7 and used as a 7 when he came on , afaik, what has changed?

The merry-go-round at 12 continues. Kidney can keep on changing personnel there but he wont suddenly find an answer.

But.......... JJ Hanrahan is one of 3 nominees for U20 player of the year, and deservedly so. Could be the answer in years to come. Of course the downside is that he will be in when O'Driscoll is on the way out.

Missed a chance by not backing the Irish last week, but I don't think I will be trying to make up for it here. NZ likely to come out with a fair bit of fire this weekend after an average display last week.

McFadden is the obvious answer at 12 long term.

Its way to early to be hyping Hanrahan. He has a long road ahead of him to get to this level.

Maybe so, but at his age he's probably the most promising Irish player, back at least, since O'Driscoll. Fergus McFadden is now 26 and hasn't got himself in front of Keith Earls or Paddy Wallace at 12 yet, so I wouldn't hold out much hope of anything there.

paddy wallace

McFadden has been unfortunate to have had the combination of Darcy & BOD ahead of him at Leinster.  In build and style of play he is very much a centre, I hope he gets his chance there in green.

I didn't see that much of Hanrahan at the WC, but have seen plenty of him before it.  Which is why I am a little surprised at the accolades coming his way.  Lets hope it doesn't turn out to be his moment in the sun.

strike rate of Earls..... against the big teams AND when it counts? Think not, in fact I know not & defensively & positionally he's a shame whereever he plays. yes he's got speed but that's it, headless chicken for me with ball-in-hand, at best he's trying too hard.

either way around we look much bttr w/o him & why change a side which in all it's parts did a job vs the ab's & deserves another shot at it, we did jus fine w/o earls & for that reason Trimble deserves the shirt

no mention of murray's performance?

ab's by around 15pts for me before the Carter w/d, now am not sure but think Darce & Heaslip missing is a big loss for us

Am not a fan of Earls especially, its just that I can't have Trimble.  He is an automaton and devoid of any footballing intelligence.

Thank you for reminding me about Murray.  Do u recall how suddenly we looked fluent with ball in hand in the last quarter?  The Munster press put it down as evidence that ROG and Sexton at 10 and 12 was the answer.  In fact the turnabout came about precisely because Reddan was on the pitch.  Decco seems determined not to give Reddan and Sexton game tome together at 9 and 10, its a shame.  Murray gives his threeqaurters little or no chance ball in hand.

It's very hard to give Ireland much chance of beating NZ tomorrow. To do so, you must score tries and, as Ozymandius points out, that is highly unlikely given how slow Murray's delivery is.   

NZ have been quite smart in their selections, bringing in a number of Waikato players for what is a home test and Smith comes in so that two full backs start in the back three. Ireland have to target Gear with their kicking game, but it must be accurate as he will murder them with aimless or poorly chased kicks.

Cruden is arguably a more attacking 10 Carter, plays very flat on the gainline and withe Smith alongside, will offer his outside backs lightning quick ball. Ireland cannot compete with this backline (the combination of Wallace and O'Driscoll in the centre has only ever failed miserably and Wallace was on holiday in Portugal until Tuesday, I believe; it's unlikely that he has trained since the HC final until this week). It is therefore vital that Ireland cut off NZ ball at source.

The return of Mealamu off the bench will add strength and composure to NZ, but I still think Ireland have a tight five that could get on top and the back row battle will be crucial. Heaslip's loss is monumental. For all his detractors, he consistently delivers performances on the biggest of stages and is the complete back row forward. Time for POM to step up to the plate.

McCaw at eight weakens the Kiwi scrum further not that that will affect Romain 'lottery' Poites scrum decisions.

Think Wallace was very unlucky not to make the tour but would echo the concerns about his lack of match fitness. Its beyond me why any team persists with McFadden on the wing. He's only marginally faster then the average centre and he's been exposed badly at international level. Give him a shot in the centre. He's been the next big thing for 5 years now. Lets find out.

DK has his own thoughts and is not for swaying. Bizarre how he can keep trying Earls in the centre, but won't give McFadden a go when everyone seems to think that would be his best position. Earls is one of the first names on the team sheet but only as a winger. I'd like to know what Zebo did wrong to drop out of contention so quickly. He barely had a touch in the first test and NZ did most of the damage down the other side of the pitch that day.

A lot of interesting points raised;

- I have no idea why Zebo was picked for his first cap and then subsequently dropped, it seems unfair.

- Re McFadden being 'exposed badly at international level', I think that's a bit harsh. He was a bit unfortunate that all the tries came down his side in the 1st test but I don't recall him being directly at fault for many, though perhaps I am wrong.  Not his finest hour certainly, but hardly an 'exposure'.  He seems to have everything in his locker to become an effective international centre, at either 12 or 13.   

- Crazy to think we could have played McFadden at 12 this week and included Zebo on the wing with Trimble on the bench.  We might have learned something from that selection.  Instead we send for Paddy Wallace

- As Big Dunc says we will indeed see the worth of the much maligned Heaslip this w/e in his absence.  Unselfishly he has adapted his game and become hugely effective at the breakdown for a no.8.

- Redroar, you must have been a back if you think no.8s have a major impact on the scrum

We awakened a sleeping giant last week and I fully expect them to destroy us tomorrow.

"McCaw at eight weakens the Kiwi scrum further"

He's often not even attached to the scrum no not much of a problem.

Romano is regarded as a strong scrum lock-much more so than Williams who was on late last week and is lazy, injured and probably past it.

But most important for the scrum is whether they keep Owen Franks on-B Franks can play ok at loosehead and is good around the field, but a woeful tighthead at international level.

Thats fine when you're playing 7 but Read pushes like fck when he plays 8. Look at the difference when McCaw played 8 last weekend and still kept popping his head up like an openside. I take on board the above points regarding the ABs keeping their starting props on the pitch, but a scrum under pressure needs an 8 man shove.

Regarding McFadden, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten more game at 13 for Leinster. BOD fair enough is first name on the team sheet but O'Malley established himself as the backup 13 before he got injured.

Not sure what to do in this game.Can't help thinking AB's will be looking to really put down a marker from last week.Heaslip a big loss for the Irish,but I'm just struggling to take the AB's -15 after being run so close last week, and without Carter.Glad to see Gear gets a start.
I wish I knew which Ireland was going to turn up here

Looks like there could be plenty of rain around so I'd hold fire until we have pics.

Blacklash comin!!!!

Conditions look ok. Think Ireland will be bollixed after last week. Have to beat the ABs up front to have any chance, but NZ should be fresher with a few changes to freshen things up.

Anyone remember the handicaps roughly from the first 2 games ?
Was it 24 1st match,and 27 last week ?

I see they've got their comedy version of the aIrish anthem out again.  Soooooooooooooooo Tacky

18/19 first game stewards. Pretty sure it was 23 across the board last week.

I fear a battering, but i'd welcome a surprise.

Thanks Dunc.

get on over 12.5

First error from Poite, NZ second row was offisde there after once the tackle had been made.

Awful first touch from Gear. Wasn't even a good kick. He can expect plenty more of that.

1.01 Layer 23 Jun 12 08:30 
I see they've got their comedy version of the aIrish anthem out again.  Soooooooooooooooo Tacky Mischief


Fairly embarrassing the disco version

Ball was forward in the move. Poite

Looked a knock on into the lead up to that Try

Knock on and a forward pass for that try can't say NZ don't get all the breaks.

That was forward by Sonny Bill. So obvious.

Yes and amazing the Sky commentators didn't pick up on it

Killing Ireland at the breakdown, no numbers from ireland.

should have been a pen to IRELAND

curious-cat 23 Jun 12 08:45 
should have been a pen to IRELAND


They foul at the breakdown so much you dont know what is a pen and not at this stage unfortunately, make their own rules.

Whenever I start moaning about the ref I know my bet is going down because you're team is then playing 16 men.

Gret try, this is going to be a massacre.

Good hands by the AB's.

Ah unplayable that

That was magic and that's what Cruden has to offer. I think he's better than attacking half back than Carter now.

Is Paddy Wallace the worst international to play for Ireland in the last ten years, see no reason for him being involved at all.

Expecially when he probably hasn't trained since the HC final. Doesn't make the initial squad but he goes straight into the staring lineup?

Agree BD, startling decision.

Last test series for 14 years, jezz that is a long time. We seem to be there every year recently.

This is fooking atrocious from Ireland, the breakdown is a non contest.

Wow this could get real messy for Ireland.

Paddy fooking Wallace, dear god.

Fck that was ugly

£500 and the rising!!!!

Cruden has had a great start to the game.

26-0 24 mins

im away back to bed

Is Paddy Wallace still drinking that Sangria?

Lads is Mike Ross that good a srummager, that he makes that difference to ireland?

Scrum.

Whenever it breaks down who is it? Wallace.

Surprised they didn't opt for 3 to get some points on the board before HT. It's a damage limitation job from here now.

Am no rugby expert but would imagine Ross is fairly essential to ireland at the minute

No way was that ball out of the scrum when Smith picked it.

Ross is the most important player in the Ireland setup.

This is some shocking handling.

NZ played great but Paddy Wallace is still on holidays. Rubbish

Must be great for Darren Cave to see wallace parachuted in ahead of him, not the best man management by kidney there

2nd half will be a SMASH!!

Ireland down to 14 for 10 minutes,just what they didn't need.I thought that decision was a bit harsh.

Brian O Driscoll can moan all he wants that the decisions are piss and fair enough Ireland do get done more than other but he has dropped so much ball and given so many poor passes that he needs just to sit down and tell the team to keep it simple.

ALL THESE FANCY STUFF behind the gain line looks decent but in reality its very easy to defend and much more likely to lead to turnover after a long hard season.

This is getting hard to watch.

link please :)

http://www.sportlemon.tv/ search for the match.

Sick of hearing this "long season" BS being peddalled by the likes of Gerry Thornley. These players are wrapped up in cotton wool for most of it and get plenty of rest and recuperation time.

Even in these grim circumstances Cian Healy been outstanding, what a player he is becoming

THIS BLACK CAVIAR.....

Jysus like watching lomu all over again there

Keith Earls. Not sure whether it should be or ?

Healy is exceptional.

Hard to believe Cian Healy is only 24. He doesn't deserve this crap. There was a great shot in the first test when Ireland were being hammered and he sprinted back to take down Conrad Smith. The complete rugby player.

*Note to self*
Be wary of the AB's the followng week after a poor performance
Fair play Dunc you did call it pre match.

Bet Ronan couldn't wait to get on

Looking forward to seeing Chris Henry here. He's been very hard done by to have to wait so long for his chance.

Really hope NZ go on and wallop us now. I thought DK might have done enough to save his job after last week.

I was quite keen on NZ today stewards, but haven't got much on at all after failing to get the rub of the green on a few over the past weeks.

Are we reaching for the record books yet?

66-28 in 2010 looks like AB's biggest win against Ireland to date.

Correction 59-6 in 92

But that looks like getting beat today.

Should be 70+ points for NZ here

Ireland quick tap penalty . to O'Driscoll who kicks to Dagg . TRY   is he still great?

Plenty more to come from the AB's in this game, look how easy that was for Dagg (who was amazing in the first test aswell), we are caught in the headlights. I never felt like we would win this series after seeing in the flesh how easy they made short work of us at the Aviva but i thought we could have put together more than one good game Ive felt the last while and I dont know if others feel this way that Kidney and his tactics/player picking are a bit meh for me the last good while

Some of our big players are in the meh section aswell the last while

Anytime ireland break forward you always fancy a try for NZ

watched it on NZ TV feed . Their commentators showed more tactical nous than Ireland. "they keep kicking it back to the All Blacks" "attacking behind the advantage line" I hope Kidney's analysts get that coverage rather than Skys where I assume Quinny was indicating that the difference was the All Blacks had more "pep in their step" SIMPLES

So that's Ireland's tour. Well beaten, then the closest they have ever come to a result in NZ, then one of the most embarrassing things I have ever seen in international rugby. That was a shambles to rank amongst the very worst.

I certainly understand why Irish fans have no faith in Kidney, but it looks deeper than that and Ireland are probably the least able to blame it on a long season. Not that NZ are ever easy to play though......

But great again from Healey, quite noticeably. At least someone is really showing some class! 14 more of him needed.

Uncle Decco needs to take a long look in the mirror and ask himself what is best for Irish rugby. 

Surely he must realise that a fresh approach is needed?  I am not necessarily saying that things are going to improve results wise, we are what we are and the coach doesn't cross the white line. However, a new voice, a fresh approach, a different perspective is essential at this stage.

Do the decent thing Decco.  Approach the Union, they will give you a few quid to make it easier for you to step aside, no firing required.  And thanks for everything you have done for Irish rugby.

I can handle Ireland being crap, I can handle us getting hammered, but I haven't a clue what Kidney's gameplan is or what direction he is taking this team. He occasionally introduces a number of young players into the squad to give the appearance that he is building for the future, but constantly reverts to type.

Why send for Paddy Wallace this week? He is 32 and we had adequate cover in the sqaud. Heaven forbid, we might have played McFadden at 12 (where every man, woman and child thinks might be his best position) and Zebo on the wing. Darren Cave is there too, another centre, who got zero game time. Zebo was inexplicably dropped after the first match? If he was considered good enough then, why drop him when he barely had a touch? Chris Henry got a grand total of 25 mins on this tour, coming on when we were more than 40 points behind.

If the likes of ROG won't step aside at 35 years of age, we need a coach who will kick him out. No place for loyalty in this game or living off past glories. We couldn't have been beaten any more badly if Ian Madigan or Paddy McAllister came on this tour, but they would have gained valuable experience.

At the moment we have a situation where Wales have proved to themselves and everyone that they can, in theory, beat SH teams and probably ought to be doing so as often as not. They have also proven that they lack that extra degree of sense that they need to do so, but they can reach out and touch those wins now and know exactly where they are and where they are going. Results are important and they've made a mess of that, but they must be desperate now to go that extra step.

England are well aware that it takes a step up in physicality to compete with SA, and no doubt NZ, but must have learnt a hell of a lot so far, both in terms of what they need to improve and also that they CAN cause teams problems when they play the right way. Experimentation hasn't exactly worked, but it hasn't caused meltdown and plenty of players have shown some promise. England fans right now are happy to take defeats if they actually look like they mean something, after 9 years of getting beaten for no gain.

Ireland maybe have had the toughest tour, but have also had the oddest. They've managed to show just how good they can be right in the middle of two games that showed just how bloody poor they can be as well. Seems that that's a constant thing for them, six-nations and otherwise - produce the odd dazzling display but fail to live up to expectations on more than half of their games.

And the SH lose 9-0 (probably) as was suggested beforehand by some. That's the saddest thing.

Can we include Scotland's Australia win to make it 9-1 RM. Not quite so bad then

yes, but in some ways it feels like cheating. Got a lot of respect for the Scots performance in that game, but it was certainly a very convenient time to play the Aussies, missing a bunch of players and with no preparation. It was the easiest game for the NH to win and the only one they have won.

there's nothing to see here,

please move along