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furrelli
21 Jun 12 16:06
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Date Joined: 07 Mar 10
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New Zealand: I Dagg; B Smith, C Smith, S B Williams, H Gear; A Cruden, A Smith; T Woodcock, A Hore, O Franks, L Romano, S Whitelock, L Messam, S Cane, R McCaw (capt).

Replacements: K Mealamu, B Franks, B Retallick, A Thomson, P Weepu, B Barrett, T Ellison.

Ireland: R Kearney; F McFadden, B O'Driscoll (capt), P Wallace, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Tuohy, D Ryan, K McLaughlin, S O'Brien, P O'Mahoney.

Replacements: S Cronin, D Fitzpatrick, D O'Callaghan, C Henry, E Reddan, R O'Gara, A Trimble.




Why Oh Why does the enigma thats Kieth Earls get back into a side that pushed the Kiwis all the way........ a totally self-centred liabilty, time to get back on the kiwi wingers to score first try.

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Replies: 95
By:
Ozymandius
When: 21 Jun 12 18:25
I would understand your angst if he was picked in the centre.

His strike rate for Ireland on the wing is quite good.

And frankly I would pick pretty much everyone ahead of Trimble.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 21 Jun 12 18:31
Why has Goldenballs been handed the 8 shirt?

I know SOB has really improved his game at 7 and is going well, but clearly would be happier and better used at 8.  I can't imagine he is happy not to have got the shirt.

POM was on the bench in the 6 Nations as a 7 and used as a 7 when he came on , afaik, what has changed?
By:
RugbyMan
When: 21 Jun 12 22:43
The merry-go-round at 12 continues. Kidney can keep on changing personnel there but he wont suddenly find an answer.

But.......... JJ Hanrahan is one of 3 nominees for U20 player of the year, and deservedly so. Could be the answer in years to come. Of course the downside is that he will be in when O'Driscoll is on the way out.

Missed a chance by not backing the Irish last week, but I don't think I will be trying to make up for it here. NZ likely to come out with a fair bit of fire this weekend after an average display last week.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 21 Jun 12 23:33
McFadden is the obvious answer at 12 long term.

Its way to early to be hyping Hanrahan. He has a long road ahead of him to get to this level.
By:
RugbyMan
When: 21 Jun 12 23:46
Maybe so, but at his age he's probably the most promising Irish player, back at least, since O'Driscoll. Fergus McFadden is now 26 and hasn't got himself in front of Keith Earls or Paddy Wallace at 12 yet, so I wouldn't hold out much hope of anything there.
By:
benny_ROBS_roy
When: 22 Jun 12 00:50
paddy wallace CryCryCry
By:
Ozymandius
When: 22 Jun 12 10:20
McFadden has been unfortunate to have had the combination of Darcy & BOD ahead of him at Leinster.  In build and style of play he is very much a centre, I hope he gets his chance there in green.

I didn't see that much of Hanrahan at the WC, but have seen plenty of him before it.  Which is why I am a little surprised at the accolades coming his way.  Lets hope it doesn't turn out to be his moment in the sun.
By:
furrelli
When: 22 Jun 12 11:45
strike rate of Earls..... against the big teams AND when it counts? Think not, in fact I know not & defensively & positionally he's a shame whereever he plays. yes he's got speed but that's it, headless chicken for me with ball-in-hand, at best he's trying too hard.

either way around we look much bttr w/o him & why change a side which in all it's parts did a job vs the ab's & deserves another shot at it, we did jus fine w/o earls & for that reason Trimble deserves the shirt

no mention of murray's performance?

ab's by around 15pts for me before the Carter w/d, now am not sure but think Darce & Heaslip missing is a big loss for us
By:
Ozymandius
When: 22 Jun 12 11:57
Am not a fan of Earls especially, its just that I can't have Trimble.  He is an automaton and devoid of any footballing intelligence.

Thank you for reminding me about Murray.  Do u recall how suddenly we looked fluent with ball in hand in the last quarter?  The Munster press put it down as evidence that ROG and Sexton at 10 and 12 was the answer.  In fact the turnabout came about precisely because Reddan was on the pitch.  Decco seems determined not to give Reddan and Sexton game tome together at 9 and 10, its a shame.  Murray gives his threeqaurters little or no chance ball in hand.
By:
big_dunc
When: 22 Jun 12 14:27
It's very hard to give Ireland much chance of beating NZ tomorrow. To do so, you must score tries and, as Ozymandius points out, that is highly unlikely given how slow Murray's delivery is.   

NZ have been quite smart in their selections, bringing in a number of Waikato players for what is a home test and Smith comes in so that two full backs start in the back three. Ireland have to target Gear with their kicking game, but it must be accurate as he will murder them with aimless or poorly chased kicks.

Cruden is arguably a more attacking 10 Carter, plays very flat on the gainline and withe Smith alongside, will offer his outside backs lightning quick ball. Ireland cannot compete with this backline (the combination of Wallace and O'Driscoll in the centre has only ever failed miserably and Wallace was on holiday in Portugal until Tuesday, I believe; it's unlikely that he has trained since the HC final until this week). It is therefore vital that Ireland cut off NZ ball at source.

The return of Mealamu off the bench will add strength and composure to NZ, but I still think Ireland have a tight five that could get on top and the back row battle will be crucial. Heaslip's loss is monumental. For all his detractors, he consistently delivers performances on the biggest of stages and is the complete back row forward. Time for POM to step up to the plate.
By:
redroar
When: 22 Jun 12 16:57
McCaw at eight weakens the Kiwi scrum further not that that will affect Romain 'lottery' Poites scrum decisions.

Think Wallace was very unlucky not to make the tour but would echo the concerns about his lack of match fitness. Its beyond me why any team persists with McFadden on the wing. He's only marginally faster then the average centre and he's been exposed badly at international level. Give him a shot in the centre. He's been the next big thing for 5 years now. Lets find out.
By:
big_dunc
When: 22 Jun 12 17:32
DK has his own thoughts and is not for swaying. Bizarre how he can keep trying Earls in the centre, but won't give McFadden a go when everyone seems to think that would be his best position. Earls is one of the first names on the team sheet but only as a winger. I'd like to know what Zebo did wrong to drop out of contention so quickly. He barely had a touch in the first test and NZ did most of the damage down the other side of the pitch that day.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 22 Jun 12 18:14
A lot of interesting points raised;

- I have no idea why Zebo was picked for his first cap and then subsequently dropped, it seems unfair.

- Re McFadden being 'exposed badly at international level', I think that's a bit harsh. He was a bit unfortunate that all the tries came down his side in the 1st test but I don't recall him being directly at fault for many, though perhaps I am wrong.  Not his finest hour certainly, but hardly an 'exposure'.  He seems to have everything in his locker to become an effective international centre, at either 12 or 13.   

- Crazy to think we could have played McFadden at 12 this week and included Zebo on the wing with Trimble on the bench.  We might have learned something from that selection.  Instead we send for Paddy Wallace Cry

- As Big Dunc says we will indeed see the worth of the much maligned Heaslip this w/e in his absence.  Unselfishly he has adapted his game and become hugely effective at the breakdown for a no.8.

- Redroar, you must have been a back if you think no.8s have a major impact on the scrum Wink

We awakened a sleeping giant last week and I fully expect them to destroy us tomorrow.
By:
ABJ
When: 22 Jun 12 18:36
"McCaw at eight weakens the Kiwi scrum further"

He's often not even attached to the scrum no not much of a problem.

Romano is regarded as a strong scrum lock-much more so than Williams who was on late last week and is lazy, injured and probably past it.

But most important for the scrum is whether they keep Owen Franks on-B Franks can play ok at loosehead and is good around the field, but a woeful tighthead at international level.
By:
redroar
When: 23 Jun 12 07:36
Thats fine when you're playing 7 but Read pushes like fck when he plays 8. Look at the difference when McCaw played 8 last weekend and still kept popping his head up like an openside. I take on board the above points regarding the ABs keeping their starting props on the pitch, but a scrum under pressure needs an 8 man shove.

Regarding McFadden, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten more game at 13 for Leinster. BOD fair enough is first name on the team sheet but O'Malley established himself as the backup 13 before he got injured.
By:
stewardsenquirey
When: 23 Jun 12 07:55
Not sure what to do in this game.Can't help thinking AB's will be looking to really put down a marker from last week.Heaslip a big loss for the Irish,but I'm just struggling to take the AB's -15 after being run so close last week, and without Carter.Glad to see Gear gets a start.
I wish I knew which Ireland was going to turn up here Confused
By:
big_dunc
When: 23 Jun 12 07:57
Looks like there could be plenty of rain around so I'd hold fire until we have pics.
By:
duey
When: 23 Jun 12 08:00
Blacklash comin!!!!
By:
big_dunc
When: 23 Jun 12 08:13
Conditions look ok. Think Ireland will be bollixed after last week. Have to beat the ABs up front to have any chance, but NZ should be fresher with a few changes to freshen things up.
By:
stewardsenquirey
When: 23 Jun 12 08:30
Anyone remember the handicaps roughly from the first 2 games ?
Was it 24 1st match,and 27 last week ?
By:
1.01 Layer
When: 23 Jun 12 08:30
I see they've got their comedy version of the aIrish anthem out again.  Soooooooooooooooo Tacky Mischief
By:
big_dunc
When: 23 Jun 12 08:33
18/19 first game stewards. Pretty sure it was 23 across the board last week.
By:
guinness2dear
When: 23 Jun 12 08:33
I fear a battering, but i'd welcome a surprise.
By:
stewardsenquirey
When: 23 Jun 12 08:34
Thanks Dunc.
By:
duey
When: 23 Jun 12 08:34
get on over 12.5
By:
big_dunc
When: 23 Jun 12 08:36
First error from Poite, NZ second row was offisde there after once the tackle had been made.
By:
big_dunc
When: 23 Jun 12 08:38
Awful first touch from Gear. Wasn't even a good kick. He can expect plenty more of that.
By:
Timeforchange
When: 23 Jun 12 08:39
1.01 Layer 23 Jun 12 08:30 
I see they've got their comedy version of the aIrish anthem out again.  Soooooooooooooooo Tacky Mischief


Fairly embarrassing the disco version
By:
Timeforchange
When: 23 Jun 12 08:42
Ball was forward in the move. Poite Angry
By:
stewardsenquirey
When: 23 Jun 12 08:42
Looked a knock on into the lead up to that Try Confused
By:
GPT
When: 23 Jun 12 08:42
Knock on and a forward pass for that try can't say NZ don't get all the breaks.
By:
bilbobaggins
When: 23 Jun 12 08:43
That was forward by Sonny Bill. So obvious.
By:
gentlemanjohn
When: 23 Jun 12 08:44
Yes and amazing the Sky commentators didn't pick up on it
By:
Timeforchange
When: 23 Jun 12 08:45
Killing Ireland at the breakdown, no numbers from ireland.
By:
curious-cat
When: 23 Jun 12 08:45
should have been a pen to IRELAND
By:
Timeforchange
When: 23 Jun 12 08:47
curious-cat 23 Jun 12 08:45 
should have been a pen to IRELAND


They foul at the breakdown so much you dont know what is a pen and not at this stage unfortunately, make their own rules.
By:
bilbobaggins
When: 23 Jun 12 08:47
Whenever I start moaning about the ref I know my bet is going down because you're team is then playing 16 men.
By:
Timeforchange
When: 23 Jun 12 08:47
Gret try, this is going to be a massacre.
By:
stewardsenquirey
When: 23 Jun 12 08:47
Good hands by the AB's.
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