The Runcorn Brusier

Two stories today with politicians,one a lout,the other arrested on anti terrorist charges,just a bit surprised you went with the former.

Gets 10 weeks for beating a man up on the Street

Not enough IMO

surely the guy was beaten enough?

Reform and Brexit Welsh leader accused of taking Russian bribes,if guilty what should he get?

guidelines are discharge to 8 years. i'd give him 4 plus another year for being called nathan

Go the whole hog altogether and maybe DarbyO?

10 weeks? will be out in 5, or less now because nobody has built any prisons for 15+ years and the population has increased by 10-15%

I think it should be 3 months minimum for perpetrators of violence, He got really unlucky because the usual is a slap on the wrist, don't do it again for a week.

I'm guessing they didn't want to give him the same sentence as typically handed out to other thugs because it would highlight there is no justice anymore.

Reform and Brexit Welsh leader accused of taking Russian bribes,if guilty what should he get?

This is Treason surely?

From Reform UK as well, always for sale, always for sale

Why is this guy up for taking Russian money when so
many otters are free...

Whataboutery in the very first reply, great work it's an effective technique

reform allegedly taking Russian money whatever next?

What's it got to do with the thug MP elected under the Labour flag ?

Thanks Cider,though to be fair it was poorly executed. A few Tory/Reform lads needed to be involved initially to maximize the whataboutery, i'm getting a bit better though all the time.

One would hope this will now be the first electoral test for the first halfwit PM.

Is cider bought in roubles?

Presumably the Labour thug MP will be trading in cigarettes for a while. Hopefully the lags take kindly to him.

Nice Cider, you are getting into the spirit of this 'look over there' thread!

Officially, the 55-year-old former Labour MP for Runcorn and Helsby now faces a recall petition, but realistically he's under enormous pressure to resign without delay.


Looking forward to the meerkat

Maybe a few kopeks buys a big cider

Not here to defend the guy, but I just don't get the sense of prison sentences of this kind of length. This fella will probably have the skills and connections to pick himself up, but for most people it will simply mean them losing their job, meaning massive problems in affording their mortgage or rent. It's just a way to increase problems and make it far more likely that the perp will return to crime as they look for a solution and find it more difficult to find a lawful way through.

Prison sentences should be minimum six months served imo. Any crime that is worth less than that should be punished in a different way that allows or even mandates that the perp lives a lawful and positive life.

Indeed, but this was likely worthy of 6 months or more given 1/ he's an mp
2/ he was stopped by a member of public from doing more damage.

Prison can be effective for punishment, deterrent or public protection. Prison for this thug is the first one. Highly unlikely to be a recidivist, most normal people I'd argue think that an unprovoked sucker punch and continuing the assault when the IP is helpless on the ground crosses the threshold for being locked up. So then it's a question of how long. Not that material in this case, as he's already turned his own life upside down. The impact on the IP is significant, I don't believe he was seriously injured.

Tanked up Fighting on the Street  ,I wonder what else he does or Did for Runcorn ?

I just think the damage done by imprisoning people for such a short amount of time and the upheaval it causes is unltimately detrimental to society. If we think one of the main aims of the justice system is to ensure offenders are reformed and lead a straight life in future thus reducing crime levels, then this upheaval is counter-productive.


Probably not for this guy as he'll no doubt find his way on to Gbeebies or similar in the future as the "politician who pulls no punches" or whatever, but in general it's a flawed policy imo.

I'm pretty much in agreement about short sentences being counter productive.
But here we need to see jail time, and if it's only a token because
jails are too full then sobeit.

Jail sentence triggers recall too, assuming his appeal will
fail if he lodges one.

Then change the parliamentary rules so that other sentences can trigger a recall. Two wrongs etc. We should be doing so much better in terms of crime and punishment.

What material difference do you think a longer sentence would have served? It is short when compared to some stuff that people do longer sentences for, but I'm not massively offended by it. He HAD to do bird, if a serving MP walked free for knocking out his constituent in an unprovoked attack, we'd be in a whole new world.

Again, not really specific to this case, as ultimately he may well end up profiting from the notoriety in years to come.

But in general short sentences can do more harm than good imo.

There isn't much of a penalty that would be the equivalent of going to prison.

Yeah, but if that penalty leads to a significantly increased risk of the perp re-offending and other people being hurt in the future, what is the benefit to society?

Yep, sacking mps convicted of crimes such as this without need for
recall petitions would be a big step forward.

No jail under a year, with community service and fines
doing the heavy lifting alongside a much improved probation service.

It's all been tried. ASBOs, tags, community orders, suspended sentences, community work. Nothing is effective, from what I hear hardly anyone does their community service, or gets the jail time if they reoffend in the suspended period. In a recent incident, a lag escaped from jail and assaulted two cops when they stopped him in an unrelated stop. He got convicted for the assault, and a jail sentence but the judge allowed it to be served concurrently with the original sentence

Well jail clearly isn't working either is it. The re-offending rates are ridiculous. Let's just let a load of homeless, jobless drug addicts out on to our streets and hope for the best. Good luck with that.

Depends what you mean by 'working'. If you have people who commit dozens of crimes, they can't commit more crimes when banged up. There's no magic formula that will stop them carrying out more crimes if they are free to do so.

There's a video doing the rounds of a lad I know, ex pro boxer whos
been locked up half a dozen times, he doesn't care, and
it's not even punishment to him.

A bit of community service whilst looking after his family
would be far more beneficial to everybody.

What fantasy makes you think he will go straight

Again though, the rates of re-offending after prison are huge. And - I need to find again the figures to confirm - the rates after serving a short sentence are scary. I'm not saying people shouldn't be punished but clearly the priority should be that we stop people re-offending and more victims mounting in the future. Short prison sentences simply doesn't achieve that aim. We're turning people who have committed relative misdemeanours or minor crimes in a moment of madness into hardened repeat offenders. It's just so ridiculously counter-productive.

Prison is full of recidivists, because they are recidivists, not because they went to jail in the past. As I alluded to above, they can't commit more crime when locked up. Not against the general public anyway. If a regular person, ie working and part of regular society, ends up in jail through a one off heinous crime, they don't become career criminals overnight.

Approximately two-thirds of those prisoners released after serving a sentence of less than 12 months reoffend within a year.

https://www.reeds.co.uk/insight/review-short-term-prison-sentences/

That stat is meaningless as it's overwhelmingly likely that it wasn't their first crime or conviction. And that they had already gone through the light touch stuff for previous offences. Most people don't get bird for their first offence, unless it's a severe crime.

Chap went down like a sack of spuds ( probably Pished ) lucky he wasnt killed only because his elbow broke his fall and his head crashing to the concrete, the MP carried on his cowardly attack with the other chap still stricken on the ground. How he only got 10 weeks is anyones guess.

The current system just isn't working. Repeating previous mistakes and expecting a different outcome...

How many people went to jail for their first conviction. That would be a far more illuminating stat. I'm supposing it's very low indeed. We know for example that paedos don't usually get jail the first time they are caught.

It's really not a meaningless stat

There are people recently who have not been jailed for sex offences and many more for carrying blades.
Getting jailed for fisticuffs after a drink and an argument seems relatively harsh to me.

You're not stupid. It means that the approach you're extolling has already been tried and failed. If the numbers are as I would anticipate.

ie actual jail is currently a last resort for most crimes. the effective change would be jail for the first offence (not the 50th)

Well I'm just a bloke on a betting forum.


My opinion is only solid so far. If someone more qualified comes along to argue for a refinement or even completely against it, then I'm open to changing my view. But my opinion is largely based on listening to people who have worked in the system and have pointed out the obvious flaws.



But I'm not really sure my view has been tried and has failed. I can't remember any single time in my adult life (roughly the last thirty years) that a serving government has enacted a policy of reducing jail time, of being less tough on criminals and focusing more on rehabilitation than on punishment.
I'm open to being corrected but I can't remember it.

Thatcher tried the "Short Sharp Shock" for young offenders in the 1980's, not sure why it was dropped.
Maybe the data showed it didn't work as one might think it would.

30-40 years later, the Tories implemented the opposite softly softly "let the criminals get away with most of their crimes", whilst telling everyone they are cracking down on crime
(i.e. the cheapest option in the short term, a thing so beloved by the Tories)

Depends what you mean by 'work'. As I already stated, people can't commit crime with public victims if they are locked up.

Some pretty naive people seem to think that prison can be a magic machine that turns bad people into good. No doubt a few people will change their ways and not want to go back, for the vast majority of lags, crime is a way of life.

Are the nawty Tories in jail for sex crimes receiving salaries?

Will Amesbury's wife be shoed into the seat to keep it in the family like Dover?

It was a promising effort by lapsy tbf, but he has nothing on the king of whataboutery

hes out

Why has he not been sacked , he has attacked one of his constituents

In what job could you sucker punch a customer and not get sacked ?

3 days he has done Incredible

People writing comments on Twitter 3 years 

What about the Slash their Throats Geezer , Surely compensation in the pipeline for all the hassle it has caused him ?

The Airport Assailants Also walked

The Justice systenm in this country is a complete and utter Joke

The Airport Assailants Also walked


Eh? They haven't stood trial yet have they?

Buried under Starmer in the US to be bent over by Trump. One can only assume this was the preordained path of events.

In the statement, he told police: "I thought I was about to be physically assaulted by this male. I was terrified and felt vulnerable and cornered by the male and others in the group."

He said the man's "arms were swinging" and he thought there was no option but to "defend" himself.

Judge Everett said: "What he said to police doesn't seem to fit in with the CCTV in pretty well any respect."


(But I'll let you off anyway)

Unreal.

Lock him up.

And get that recall going.

VIOLENT LEFTY LIVES MATTER

How do you get an appeal heard in just 3 days?

not possible without corruption.

Feb 27, 2025 -- 12:30PM, the old nanny ;-) wrote:

hes out Why has he not been sacked , he has attacked one of his constituents In what job could you sucker punch a customer and not get sacked ?

Who can sack him? He is elected not appointed. So has to be the voters.

100% there needs to be a new law passed, if an MP is booted from the party they represented when being elected, it immediately triggers a by-election. Perhaps it was different many years ago, but almost 100% of voters tick the box for the party, not the individual representing it.

so if he attacked this guy and he had killed him , he would still be able to carry on as an mp?

I have heard of people being Sucked punched fell hit their Head and Dead ..

Amesbury, 55, was ordered to complete 200 hours of unpaid work and to observe a 120-day alcohol monitoring program. In addition he was also ordered to complete 20 rehabilitation activity requirement days,

including an anger management course.

Will it be made sure that these activities are carried out in his Spare time and that he is not being paid to complete them by the Tax payer ?

200 hours of unpaid work

It won't be clearing litter and wiping graffiti, it will be some soft soap sh1t he can do from home.

Very cynical how this has been plotted out by the deep state, we'll make sure the big story is he's been jailed, and we'll bury the reprieve when everyone is looking elsewhere.

so if he attacked this guy and he had killed him , he would still be able to carry on as an mp?

Yes. Electing MPs is all we can do to avoid total dictatorship, so we don't want some committee being able to remove them without the voters say so.

As YHTL says, there is a recall procedure, that would certainly kick in if he had killed the guy.

It kicks in now, despite suspended sentence.

Amesbury has been urged to resign by Labour and Reform but has not done so and a recall petition cannot be issued until he has exhausted any appeals. He has not yet indicated if he will appeal his latest sentence.

OK, so the voters can remove him.

Better than his being 'sacked'.

Feb 24, 2025 -- 10:29PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

The current system just isn't working. Repeating previous mistakes and expecting a different outcome...

If someone is giving 3 or 4 'community sentences', continues to commit crimes, and then is finally sent to prison for a few months, comes out and commits more crime, then what were the 'previous mistakes' of the system? The prison sentence or the community stuff?

Feb 24, 2025 -- 10:43PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

Well I'm just a bloke on a betting forum.My opinion is only solid so far. If someone more qualified comes along to argue for a refinement or even completely against it, then I'm open to changing my view. But my opinion is largely based on listening to people who have worked in the system and have pointed out the obvious flaws.But I'm not really sure my view has been tried and has failed. I can't remember any single time in my adult life (roughly the last thirty years) that a serving government has enacted a policy of reducing jail time, of being less tough on criminals and focusing more on rehabilitation than on punishment. I'm open to being corrected but I can't remember it.

You may not have heard politcians advocating softer sentencing, but most governments of the last 30 years have introduced or extended early release schemes. Rehabilitation just doesn't work on any large scale. There will be individuals who reformed but that just may have been down to the individual.

Exactly. Pineapple doesn't strike me as the obtuse type. But the system as it is implemented now uses jail a last report (see the thug MP) There are loads of people that literally have dozens of convictions, eventually they'll be given a short actual sentence, then obviously carry on as they were before. A lot of these delinquents have been in crime since age 11 or 12. It's all they know. You could throw millions at it and perhaps straighten out a handful if you're lucky, but as I stated it's a way of life. The only real shot is to change the direction they are headed in the first time they are caught.

Spaffer Johnson would have faced a recall for lying to Parliament.

You can stand in by election, and maybe win.

Johnson will never not lie, no rehabilitation is possible.

The farmer harmer is much more of a liar PM than Johnson. And far less charismatic doing it.

there are a small number of people who are responsible for many crimes, these people need to be locked up sooner and for longer, and when they re-offend their subsequent sentences should be even longer.

this article is a great explanation of where we, and many other countries, are going wrong - https://www.edwest.co.uk/p/the-power-law-of-crime

Regardless of Politics this guy serving 3 days in Pathetic

I have watched the Video he is Punching him in the head while he is Down

Madness ,If he had decked him and walked away would be bad enough

the bloke was talking about a Swing bridge FFS

Mike is a nutter   ,He will get Dogs abuse from the Public

dont think he will be going to too many pubs Going forward

FREEDOM FOR VIOLENT LEFTYS.

Feb 27, 2025 -- 5:21PM, tobermory wrote:

Feb 24, 2025 -- 10:29PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:The current system just isn't working. Repeating previous mistakes and expecting a different outcome...If someone is giving 3 or 4 'community sentences', continues to commit crimes, and then is finally sent to prison for a few months, comes out and commits more crime, then what were the 'previous mistakes' of the system? The prison sentence or the community stuff?

I don't think I ever said it would be perfect did I. There will always be some people who are addicts or simply think the rules shouldn't apply to them. They need to be managed.


But - in danger of repeating myself - in current cases where the tariff is a few weeks in stir, then I think the danger is that the upheaval (loss of job, possible loss of home, shame and distancing from community etc) will more than likely lead to further problems in the future, and therefore is actually counter-productive if we are looking to have less crime on our streets.



There is a separate issue here, which is apart from sentencing but also important. It's that prison should be a place of reform and of preparing prisoners to be free again and to set them on the straight and narrow. Currently, we don't do that anywhere near well enough. But it is also a very important facet that is being under-used.

I thought the initial sentence was harsh in light of normal but I don’t have a problem with violent offenders being sent to jail

is he appealing the verdict?

He pleaded guilty, so I doubt it.

Iron Mike has ruled himself out of standing in by election.

should a man's whole life be defined by a moment of madness?

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/R-v-Michael-Amesbury.pdf

..

He has time to redefine his life.


People seeking public office should be aware of consequences



He's had plenty of time prior to incident to define his life.

should a man's whole life be defined by a moment of madness?


A moment of madness  could literally cover anything.

And he lied to the police the next day (as I quoted above), about what happened, and tried to blame it on his punch bag victim!

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/R-v-Michael-Amesbury.pdf

a bit concerning that the "victim" thought it appropriate to raise constituency matters in the street after closing time. do we know if the "victim" was a scrote or a normal person?

I don't think it was appropriate to batter
him whatever his character

Why on earth would you put the word victim in speech quotes It's on cctv for us all to see, Judge Everett stated: "What he said to police doesn't seem to fit in with the CCTV in pretty well any respect.", ie the defendant lied in an embarrassing attempt to escape accountability. And he is a convicted criminal, where there was a specified victim of an assault.

Why there appears to be no risk attached to telling lies to police in anyone's guess, and he was a MP, ffs.

Think there's a lot here that hasn't reached the papers. Beats a man up for no reason and gets a few days inside? Something doesn't smell right

Two tier justice, obviously. And they have no shame about it.

The judge never said the defendant lied

There was no trial.

There was a pre sentence report that I can't find, but judge references it
in the link I posted.

It's not about the behaviour of the victim.

Two tier justice, obviously

No the judge was clear about this in his sentencing.

That's ok then, he's delivering two tier justice ffs. Not likely he would readily admit to it

so another one of your conspiracy theories

'Not about the behaviour of the victim'.
I think it rather is, at what point during being harangued/insulted/intimidated
you deem it necessary to put the aggressor on his arse to shut him up is surely subjective.
Does the law say anyone can get in your face and abuse you indefinitely?

In this case there's no evidence that the victim did anything untoward. The thug MP was lying about it to try and excuse his behaviour.

so another one of your conspiracy theories


The judge is hardly going to state that he's effectively letting the perp off due to his status. Pretty sure you or me sucker punching someone, and continuing to beat them up whilst they lay on the ground would result in going to jail. And we aren't MPs.

I struggle with the rational for the way some of these things are handled anyway. Sucker punch someone and they crack their head open on the road and die, you get a dozen years in jail. Sucker punch someone and they don't crack their head open, so you continue to attack them, you effectively walk away free. The difference in outcomes for the victim is pure luck.

GONE

By Election should prove interesting