Politics
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She was being sarcastic! I have always been baffled by the silly term "working class" as it excludes those with a disability, the homeless, the unemployed, the retired and several other groups of people. Surely if you have a job you are working class whether you earn £10000 or £10 million? Even the old distinction between white collar and blue collar is hopelessly inadequate these days in trying to classify people. The trouble is that the British have never grown out of the hatred between those with one accent and those with another and it has little to do with your job description or income. I was farmer and Managing Director of a family business. I worked with my hands for around 6 hours a day and did the business admin for about 4 hours a day. What class was I? For several years I earned less than 2 of my employees so income was not a big distinction either.
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I know she sounds posh, but she talks a lot of sense: You can come from a family in the AB class and as soon as you become independent and self reliant your classification will then depend on what you do for a living. Strictly speaking this should only be applied when you are living in your own place as chief income earner in that household.
Manual work at MacDonald's would put you as class D (unskilled or semi-skilled working class). Working class actually includes everyone on classes C2, D and E. E includes everyone not working and entirely dependent on benefit. I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong, but it is how it is. |
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Sageform, I agree that the classifications are now very outdated: Manual workers have to use computer systems etc and can much more easily move into clerical duties and vice versa. Kemi is an example of someone who can go from a middle class family (A or B) to D and eventually end up as an MP (class A).
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I visited a stately home on holiday.
I am now upper class Ffs she's a total idiot. |
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Should have just played the Dianne Abbot card.
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That is absurd. It is the use of "working class" that she is laughing at. Where you went on holiday or a day out is nothing to do with work is it? Why is she classed differently from the people she worked alongside for the time she was there?
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Marksman, where did you get your definitions? Not being critical, just curious. If those classifications are cast in stone, then how does anyone move around? And what daft bureaucrat defined unemployed people as working class?
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I don't see a kid earning a bit of pocket money to be that
different to me visiting a stately home and reassigning class. She's a total idiot, typically fashionable right wing idiot vote chaser, good luck to her against the other idiots chasing the job. |
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The ONS interpretation only works if your judgement is that an individual's class is determined by their job (or lack of). In the real world I think most people would determine it by your upbringing. I've been at the top part of that table for a lot of my career, but if asked I would say I'm working class with a middle class job and lifestyle.
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So, Badenoch is very much middle class but for some time did a working class job (imv). I do believe that doing a working class job (properly, not just work experience or an internship, but to pay the bills) does provide an individual with a real world outlook. Which most leaders, (just like two tier) absolutely lack.
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Keir had a proper job, which he was good at.
Badenoch is simply an idiot who learnt nowt from flipping burgers. |
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Two tier hasn't done a working class job to pay the bills. Most of the kids now go all the way to leaving uni without needing to do a working class job to pay the bills. A big contribution to the fukking of the country, a big thanks to noo labour.
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I think Badenoch is using that to political advantage, but one can also tell she has experience of the real world.
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Of course he worked to pay the bills.
What sort of an idiot says oh I will leave uni and flip burgers rather than enter the profession I want as I'm bright enough. Ffs |
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Because the culture used to be that you started at the bottom and talented people quickly rose to the top. I did not flip burgers but I did do some grotty jobs for a while. As I wanted to get a car, that's what I had to do. 17 year olds now would be far too precious for that kind of thing, and feel entitled to a car.
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Are you a Financial Adviser, Cider?
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Not IFA, I do work in finance though.
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Ok.
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Lots of 17 year olds are currently employed in the UK.
Ciderville must be a bizarre place. |
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Children aged 16 and 17 are entitled to at least £4.81 per hour
Big incentive to work, but they do. |
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The employment rate for young people was 50.4%, meaning that a similar number of young people were out of work as there were in work.
The number who are economically inactive (not in or looking for work) increased by 73,000 compared to the previous year, to 2.96illion. This is close to the highest recorded level since records began in 1992. The inactivity rate for young people was 41.2%, up from 40.7% in the previous year. This is up to age 24 |
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Those at school might get a weekend job (or milkround/newspapers)
but wouldn't be registered as looking for work if they don't work and are looking. Many are at uni, spending their loan, and not seeking work, but unlikely they register as looking for work if on a full time course, even if they are looking. |
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I never worked whilst at uni, as I had too much golf to play.
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lol well you said it all really, at uni spending their loan that's not really a loan.
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Instead of producing value, they are consuming it.
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For me it is totally obnoxious that anyone should recognise , or discuss or permeate the image of a "class" structure within a countries governance system.
It completely goes against treating people equally and with respect. Why do you Brits do it ? OK so its embossed into your history from King Charles downwards, it permeates your education system from Masters down to GCSE's , from Oxbridge down to Tecnical colleges, it ridicules your sports big outsiders winning Grade 1 races , upsets by "lower" teams in the league and F A Cup , it leads you to racism, prejudice and idiotic judgemental errors. Why is it so important for you to classify people into pigeon holes ? Does it emerge from your Protestant work ethic, "harder you work the more you are rewarded" and you will get up the "class ladder" ? (another lie), then the foundation of marketeering, Capitalism and the Rat Race. In a Catholic Church you have no idea who is going to sit next to you, they could be millionaires they could be paupers, but you are encouraged to shake their hands during the service and treat them equally. The respect in Ireland for each other is institutional which is why Ireland is recognised as one of the worlds four most popular countries. Now the English will come on here to go on about dead babies, illegal abortions and misbehaving priests. Anything to put Ireland down or their own country up.....the "class" race ingrained in their attitudes, behaviour and thinking. The English need to recognise that we all end up EQUAL anyway, fecking dead . |
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Definition of working class: A social class of people who typically perform manual labour for wages and have low pay, limited education and little wealth, according to Google.
But, I think it's opened to interpretation these days. |
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Sageform, I worked in market research. It was explained to me during the training that the big theoretical difference between working class and middle class/upper class is that working class people are those who work all week for a pay packet at the end of the week, which they then spend. They will have set out on this course in life when they left school at 16 to do unskilled manual work or an apprencticeship (which would lead to them becoming C2 when qualified). If they earn overtime that week, then that is just "beer money". They will typically live in council houses, as they won't have had the self discipline to save or pay off a mortgage on a regular basis. By contrast the middle class own their own homes. It was pointed out to me, by my instructor, that this is actually nonsense: There are lots of people in the C2/D bracket who have an apparently middle class lifestyle (such as buying their own home, making provision for retirement etc.). But the social grading is still used because it is better than nothing when it comes to classifying data.
People can move from working class to C1 by taking an office job, going to university (students are C1 while studying) or starting a small trade business and then employing one person. Angela Rayner who has gone from a E (single parent on benefit) to Member of Parliament (A). And listening to her speak, I imagine most of her grades at school where "E"s. So it can be done. |
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Marksman those are fairly modern (from 60/70s and constantly updated ) distinctions
as opposed to the older class system. Almost class as in classification. For market research it's important as groups tend to behave as a group with very similar habits, so filling a quota from each group gives a great idea of the population as a whole. Far easier as you say to move around in those classes than it was say pre war, and deffo pre ww1. Progress of sorts! |
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I think the traditional class structure was killed by Thatcher and the following decade. Round here now, the biggest cars are generally owned by plumbers and sparks. Youngish lads who are self-employed and making a good living, but trades that you'd traditionally consider working class. Alternatively, office jobs are now so common place that you've got people there on minimum wage or zero hours, struggling to get by.
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That seems to be a big problem with the traditional class structure.
Too many middle class children are made to think that the automatic route they must take is to go to university and then end up doing some irrelevant degree that has no attraction to employers and end up as woe is me Guardian types complaining about being burdened by crippling student debts whilst working in menial office jobs when they would have been far better of in a trade and would be earning double their wages and be debt free by the time they left uni. |
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Shrewd_dude20 Sep 24 12:52
That seems to be a big problem with the traditional class structure. Spot on |