Do the honest punters think lefties know they are being gaslit all the time by their own side?

That's what I asked you. Did your momma teach you no basic manners?

Bit of advice - don't feed a troll.

I do not need advice on whether to talk to you.

Though as I noted yesterday, I nonetheless would like to know our thoughts on this

Just Checking • February 20, 2022 2:20 PM GMT
"Don't be an apologist for evil otherwise you may be viewed as evil yourself. "
Crippen is a troll, and the worst kind. He knows better, he just doesn't care. The likes of COTwattery/Gig/SKen/WDeath etc, they have double digit IQs, they'll never know or understand better. Arguing with them is like arguing with a dead Goldfish.

Crippen howver thinks he is clever and it entertains him to string people along. He clearly has an intelligence fools don't have, but for him it's fun! He doesn't believe it when he writes it, it is "entertainment".

https://community.betfair.com/politics/go/thread/view/94150/31743863/president-putin

your thoughts

Top five then?

We can do one each, taking turns until we run out of Trump lies or misleading statements. Let's see who is better informed and can do more and how many we can do altogether. I will even start even though you never did good on your favourite trump lies when I asked earlier.

1. Trump said the Mueller report totally exonerated him. This should be considered a lie since the man who authored the report said it did not do any such thing.

Nice try but the Mueller report found no evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia to rig the 2016 election after a 2 year $32 million investigation. If that's not exoneration I don't know what is. If there was the tiniest morsel of evidence they would have had his guts for garters.

The report specifically said: "While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

But ok, if you don't accept that, show you can do a better job highlighting a Trump lie or misleading statement than I can!

This is just a failure on your part to comprehend. Most normal non TDS people understood him to mean he was exonerated by the result because they were so determined and spent such a lot of time and money trying to find something and they couldn't even find a process crime. He was totally exonerated by the fact they didn't find any crime to charge him with after being so determined to find or engineer one. No one has ever been investigated as thoroughly as Trump and the most they have managed to find is an expired book keeping misdemeanor that no one else would ever have been charged with.

Jul 1, 2024 -- 8:14PM, edy wrote:

But ok, if you don't accept that, show you can do a better job highlighting a Trump lie or misleading statement than I can!

.

Can't do it any better than I can despite being oh so well informed?

No one has ever been investigated as thoroughly as Trump and the most they have managed to find is an expired book keeping misdemeanor that no one else would ever have been charged with.


the don usually gets others to do his dirty-work - long list of them that have gone to jail

trump or bidet

what an option. i so want bidet but suspect he will be taken away but will the democrats have time to come up with a credible alternative? its a risky strategy

at least in the u.s you can go to jail-in russia you go to the kremlin and untold riches

We haven't heard your first offering yet that's actually a real lie. Just one real lie is all I need, not a difference of opinion. I can't think of any consequential lie Trump has told but I am happy to be corrected. Most of the claimed lies are either exaggerations, differences of opinion or just Trump describing things in ways the left doesn't approve of as in the exoneration "lie". I would be interested to hear a consequential lie that actually did some damage such as the horrible lies told by the media and Biden about Trump saying white supremacists are fine people which divided the country on race, or the lie that Biden wouldn't introduce vaccine mandates. That's as bad as Dr Mengele forcing untested vaccines on people.  What lie did Trump tell that was as damaging as that? If you lefties had any working brain cells you would be angry about all the lies the media tell you. They have been gaslighting everyone for the last 4 years that Bidens brain was working normally and he just had a stutter. The media lies all the time about everything, and lefties obsess about silly nothing burgers they disagree with Trump about as if they were terrible consequential lies.

No, there is not just one lie or misleading statement needed. We are going to make a most fabulous list together over the coming months. So here is a new 1st one.

1. Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”. While some Clinton supporters did spread birtherism, there is no evidence that Clinton or her campaign spread it or made her supporters spread it. The origins of birtherism can be traced further back than 2008 anyway. It is also rude of Trump to claim he finished it when he gave quite a bit of life to it.

So now it is your turn to add a lie or misleading statement from Trump to our list.

Are you sure you want that as no 1? Technically it might be a lie but it came from Democrats. Clinton supporters did circulate rumors about Obama's birthplace during the 2008 Democratic primary. And did it damage the country?

No, it did not come from Democrats. The quote is from Trump.

Your turn.

And yes, I am sure I want that as no. 1. Your turn to add number 2.

And your insistence on something being "consequential" is a highly subjective matter that depend on your feelings. With Trump making that lie about Clinton during the 2016 presidential campaign, I could e.g. propose that it cose her the vital votes that would have gotten her the presidency. I could further propose that Clinton would have been a much better, more competent POTUS than Trump and that the lie hence damaged the USA and the world.

Could I really prove either of those propositions? No. Could you disprove them? Very unlikely. So let us stick with facts, not your feelings.

My facts don't care about your feelings and all that.

I am not insisting on anything. If you want your list to consist only of inconsequential, pedantically defined lies, differences of opinion and exaggerations it's not going to be a persuasive list. I agree that the "lie" about Hilary starting it may have been consequential. I doubt it was enough to cost her the election but Trump's failure to distinguish between Hilary and her supporters sounds a bit pedantic and does not really sound like intentional deception. Surely even if you were to narrow it down to only include the lies which were consequential and intended to deceive there should still be plenty to choose from out of the 33,000? I am only thinking of you and how persuasive your list will look.

I do not see your no. 2 lie for our list there.

Also:

Trump's failure to distinguish between Hilary and her supporters sounds a bit pedantic

So....hypothetically....if there was to be a Trump supporter that says things like "We will make them [jews] die in the holy war"...let's call them Richard "Dick" Nuentes in our scenario, and I were to say "Donald Trump and his campaign want a holy war against jews", you would not argue against my statement as it would be a bit pedantic of you to do so?

Sorry, of course I would say "Donald Trump and his campaign want to kill jews in a holy war"

You would consider it a mere pedantically defined lie?

I can't think of any serious lies. All I can do is give you a list of things lefties call lies. They say he downplayed the seriousness of the pandemic by saying it was no more serious than the flu. Do you count that as a lie? I don't think that has been proved false. A lot of people died because they were needlessly put on ventilators and were not allowed to take early treatments.

So would you protest my "Donald Trump and his campaign want to kill jews in a holy war" or would you do nothing because it would be pedantic of you to do so?

That would be an ecumenical question.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean with that. Can you rephrase it and maybe explain it with some more words?

Your question was one which, it occurred to me, was a question of a fundamentally ecumenical nature.

What does ecumenical mean?

In the context of your expression, that is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptd_h0dF7NE
.

I see. Can we please get serious again now instead of you dodging?

Please do not be a leftie.

What's no 3?

Number 3 is the number that follows number 2. They really do not teach you kids anything anymore, do they?

It's you kids who caused all the climate change leaving doors wide open.

My no. 3 would be Trump writing ""Biden wants to immediately stop all aid to Israel,". There is no indication that that is the case.

What are your numbers 2 and 4?

I can't think of any important lies. All I can do is tell you what lefties have called lies. No 2 is the pandemic "lie" and no 4 would be the largest inauguration crowd lie. That was more of an exaggeration really.

Ok, so we have

1. Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”. While some Clinton supporters did spread birtherism, there is no evidence that Clinton or her campaign spread it or made her supporters spread it. The origins of birtherism can be traced further back than 2008 anyway. It is also rude of Trump to claim he finished it when he gave quite a bit of life to it.
2. Something pandemic
3. Trump claimed "Biden wants to immediately stop all aid to Israel,". There is not indication that that is the case.
4. Trump bigly lied about the size of his inauguration crowd.

and now

5. Trump claimed "They called it an armed insurrection, and yet no guns were seized,". In fact court documents show that guns were seized.

Sorry, that is inaccurate.

5. Someone else claimed ""They called it an armed insurrection, and yet no guns were seized,", to which Trump replied "Right" and "There were no guns whatsoever.". In fact court documents show that guns were seized.

Can you please phrase your number 6 in a way that I can directly copy&paste into the list?

What do you think about giving this an own thread titled "Ronaldmcdonald's approved list of Donald Trump lies and misleading statements for the honest punter"?

The FBI initially said no firearms were confiscated and that was widely reported. If Trump was echoing the FBI that's not a lie as most would consider them to be an authoritative source. It was only in later reports that there were two confirmed instances of individuals carrying firearms in the immediate Capitol area - Christopher Alberts and Guy Reffitt. Needless to say two armed spotty herberts does not an insurrection make.

Not sure this could be an approved list because I don't agree with all of them.

The statement about "no guns whatsoever" was made by Trump on July 11 2021. Your mentioned Guy Reffitt was charged with bringing a gun to Capitol grounds a month before that.

You a well informed guy you are terribly malinformed.

For a well informed

So your turn for number 6

Is it reasonable to assume he had heard the news update by then about the two aforementioned spotty herberts? There's no reason to assume he did because it was not widely reported. Is it reasonable to assume there was an intention to deceive, or was it just that he didn't have completely up to date information? There are many people who still believe officer Sicknick was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher, are they lying when they say so? Was Bill Maher lying when he said recently that officers were killed on J6? It's always good to check the latest most accurate information as statements and interpretations can vary and evolve over time, but that doesn't always happen.

I can put an asterisk on that item, like so:

1. Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”. While some Clinton supporters did spread birtherism, there is no evidence that Clinton or her campaign spread it or made her supporters spread it. The origins of birtherism can be traced further back than 2008 anyway. It is also rude of Trump to claim he finished it when he gave quite a bit of life to it.
2. Something pandemic
3. Trump claimed "Biden wants to immediately stop all aid to Israel,". There is not indication that that is the case.
4. Trump bigly lied about the size of his inauguration crowd.
5. Trump claimed "They called it an armed insurrection, and yet no guns were seized,". In fact court documents show that guns were seized.* (Ronaldmcdonald would like it known that Trump might have simply been dumb and low on information instead of looking to deceive)

...What's your 6?

Sorry used the wrong 5th item

1. Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”. While some Clinton supporters did spread birtherism, there is no evidence that Clinton or her campaign spread it or made her supporters spread it. The origins of birtherism can be traced further back than 2008 anyway. It is also rude of Trump to claim he finished it when he gave quite a bit of life to it.
2. Something pandemic
3. Trump claimed "Biden wants to immediately stop all aid to Israel,". There is not indication that that is the case.
4. Trump bigly lied about the size of his inauguration crowd.
5. Someone else claimed ""They called it an armed insurrection, and yet no guns were seized,", to which Trump replied "Right" and "There were no guns whatsoever.". In fact court documents show that guns were seized.* (Ronaldmcdonald would like it known that Trump might have simply been dumb and low on information instead of looking to deceive. Very few people can judge low information as well as Ronald.)

So your 6 please.

All the climate change is down to you spotty herberts on the left leaving doors wide open all the time. I came home the other day and the house was lit up like a christmas tree.

That's entirely on you apparently having done a very inadequate job at house training the people living with you.

Everyone in my house is fully house trained thank you. Unlike you, I have a fully carpeted bathroom and there are never any spills to mop up.

If they were fully house trained they wouldn't  in your absence choose to light up the house like a christmas tree to your dismay.

To me it sounds like you only one trick trained them. No spills,but forgot or failed to train them in other important areas.

Also.....

Ronaldmcdonald • July 3, 2024 11:24 AM BST
Everyone in my house is fully house trained thank you. Unlike you, I have a fully carpeted bathroom and there are never any spills to mop up.

....would one actually notice slight spills on your carpet....?

...

Trust me, there is no problem with spills, unlike there is in your lino floored bathroom. If I am at someone else's house I can always tell if there have been any spills because it creates a lingering musty atmosphere, which you may well be familiar with.

As far as the lie list, I think we need to have a double list to be fair to all concerned. I should not have to come up with false consequential lies when I don't believe there are any as far as I know, although I am happy to be corrected. I think it would be more useful to have a double list alternating between Trump and Biden so that we can contrast the seriousness of the lies side by side. For each lie there could be a rating, a short description of the lie and an explanation of how it was damaging. All the Trump lies would be vetted by me, and the Biden lies could be vetted by you. In the event that Biden drops out, a new list would need to be done for his replacement.

One thing after another. We will of course get to the Biden list when we are done with Trump, no worries.

Are you one of those people that start things, do them in a half-arsed way and at the slightest of resistance just quits?

I.e. a typical leftie?

....Just like you house trained your humans in a half-arsed way in regards to e.g. lights and now apparently quit, fingers in ear, deny reality and lie to yourself that your humans are fully house trained.

There's nothing half arsed about improving a list. A list of Trump lies on it's own requires equal right to reply, and would be fundamentally fair. Not that I expect a leftie to have any concern for fairness.

But what's your reply to my concerns regarding your feelings?

edy • July 2, 2024 12:50 PM BST
And your insistence on something being "consequential" is a highly subjective matter that depend on your feelings. With Trump making that lie about Clinton during the 2016 presidential campaign, I could e.g. propose that it cose her the vital votes that would have gotten her the presidency. I could further propose that Clinton would have been a much better, more competent POTUS than Trump and that the lie hence damaged the USA and the world.

Could I really prove either of those propositions? No. Could you disprove them? Very unlikely. So let us stick with facts, not your feelings.

Why do you insist on your precious, petite feelings instead of cold, objective facts?

You are making the leftie shine through far too much time after time.

If you went to university, you were probably enrolled in one of the social studies.

Petite feelings? There's no problem with the size of my hands. It's so typical of you lefties to want to propagate anti Trump propaganda unchallenged by silencing all criticism of the regime. What are you afraid of?

Those are different things. You are also plain lying with your unchallenged things. I included your concerns in the list after all.

So why do you want an emphasis on your precious feelings instead of cold, hard facts?

No I can't let you lefties get away with unchallenged propaganda. Biden's lies have to be in the list too for balance, and you will have the same opportunity to voice your concerns. Balance is nothing to do with feelings, it's about not letting lefties get away with taking liberties.

Oh, we can do a joint list, but I would still like your reply to my concerns voiced here.

edy • July 2, 2024 12:50 PM BST
And your insistence on something being "consequential" is a highly subjective matter that depend on your feelings. With Trump making that lie about Clinton during the 2016 presidential campaign, I could e.g. propose that it cose her the vital votes that would have gotten her the presidency. I could further propose that Clinton would have been a much better, more competent POTUS than Trump and that the lie hence damaged the USA and the world.

Could I really prove either of those propositions? No. Could you disprove them? Very unlikely. So let us stick with facts, not your feelings.

If you want to fill your list with nothing burgers that's fine with me, but it will not be as persuasive as a list of consequential lies.

How are you going to prove something is consequential outside of your precious little feelings?

Do the trains run on time in Germany?

One of your examples was about it supposedly being consequential because in your precious little feelings it "divided the country on race". Can you prove that it had that effect in a significant way?

Jul 3, 2024 -- 3:19PM, Ronaldmcdonald wrote:

Do the trains run on time in Germany?

On occasion.

Why does an opinion need to be proved?

If you want a good list it should not be based on your biased stupid feelings and opinions.

But cold, hard, verifiable facts.

My right wing facts do not care about your wet type woke leftie feelings and opinions.

Have you never read any Shapiro?

Whether something is a lie is no more a hard fact than whether it is consequential. The answer is always more free speech not less as you lefties would like. If you dispute a lie, or dispute whether it is consequential, your comments can be included.

Uh.....no, whether something is a lie is very much verifiable and hard fact.

But feel free to explain why

"Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”

being a lie is not hard fact.

Your stance is the reason the alt cringe hate courts. It's the one place where their precious feelings and made up blabbering are not enough and evidence counts.

Whether something is a lie is not a cold fact. If Trump said men can't have periods, lefties would call it a lie. He has said the election was stolen and lefties are adamant about that being a lie, when in fact it really depends on what you mean by stolen. These are not all black and white issues like the issue of whether the trains run on time in Germany, which they always used to, but something went wrong. This is why we need the ability to comment as we see fit within the details of the list. Most people on the right are very much in favour of courts and law and order, except when it is being used to harass political opponents and interfere with an election, and no reasonable person thinks this is an acceptable use of the legal system.

edy • July 3, 2024 3:46 PM BST
But feel free to explain why

"Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it.”

being a lie is not hard fact.

I guess one could always go with your earlier assessment of Trump being dumb and uninformed, but doing that assessment of Trump being stupid and misinformed time after time after time after time after time after time after time doesn't really sound any more favourable to me than Trump having had lied.

It should be obvious to you that that is only one example, and what applied to one example does not apply in every example. In the days when the German trains used to run on time it was very important to agree on the facts and not be dealing with subjective opinions, but now we live in a very different world. This is not a railway system we are talking about, and you are not a choo-choo engineer, so I am afraid you are going to have to be a bit more flexible in your thinking.

Would apply to examples we include in the list.

I think it's going to be the most splendid double list the honest punters have ever seen.

Yes, so since I basically did the entire Trump list so far, you should do some work for a change as well and compile the first five entries for Biden.