Conservative party GE24 post-mortem

I think their problems started with the UKIPinisation of their party in 2010-2015. This poisoned the debate over Europe and led to the referendum in 2016.

The war between Remainers and the UKIP fraction did for May and led  to the disaster which was Johnson and Truss and the abandonment of truth and decency with used to be the watchword of the party.

Rishi never really stood a chance at this election but when he wheeled out The Big Lie Machine the party really was sunk.

Gonna need a lot more than Epinephrine to revive this corpse.

They have lost what are always seen as traditional Conservative values, law and order particularly within their own party where lies and corruption have become the norm.

SNC blaming all the problems in the world on UKIP......for goodness sake the Conservatives have to take responsibility for their own downfall as have we as human beings.....you and you alone are responsible for mistakes you make.....surely as an adult SNC you should know this by now

Norbert all over the facts. 2019 and the Brexit manifesto delivered them the biggest majority since Thatcher. They of course fully reneged on that, and faced the pandemic which has finished off most gvnts in power at the time (or about to).

We got BRINO and straight back to the globalist agenda, where the wets are more than comfortable, despite their rhetoric.

BRINO?

What should have happened that didn't?

Big issue for the Tories is brexit and brexiteers.

They were always a broad church but since the vote the membership has been infiltrated by kippers determined to get their guy into the hot spot.



Being a tory used to mean a load of things. Free economy, small state, law and order, pull yourself up etc etc. But the membership putsch and Johnson sacking anyone who wasn't a zealot just massively narrowed their focus. They lost a lot of quality and became beholden to one single (and most would say unattainable) policy. The red wall voters in 2019 hav now been turned off as they see them as incompetent. Traditional tories think they're useless and batsh!t, and now even the brexit zealots are turning to their next superhero to make it all better.


Chances are they won't heed any of these lessons and the next leader will also lurch to the right and wang on about immigration with the likelihood being that it might play well with the small minority on that side of the divide but will further distance themselves from the millions in the centre. Oblivion awaits.

They are not the Conservative party of Thatcher
Clark, heseltine, major, and big wi[b][b]lly whitelaw.

Having seen Labour defeated bigly as they went to left,
the right wing extras should have been patted
on the head, thanked for their votes, and put back
in their box.

Tail is wagging the dog as they race to the bottom.

They are not the Conservative party of Thatcher
Clark, heseltine, major, and big willy whitelaw.

Having seen Labour defeated bigly as they went to left,
the right wing extras should have been patted
on the head, thanked for their votes, and put back
in their box.

Tail is wagging the dog as they race to the bottom.

https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/17/david-gauke-the-tory-right-will-try-to-shift-the-blame-but-the-looming-electoral-disaster-is-of-their-making/

david gauke's view, he was a reaminer who voted to leave the eu every time there was a bill in parliament to take us out, unlike the erg morons.
before one of the loons claims may's deal was 'brino' it should be noted that it involved leaving the sm (and its regulatory orbit) which means it was a hard brexit.

imo, what is most clear is that party members should have zero say in who becomes party leader as they are not accountable to the electorate, that falls to the MPs who have to work with the leader. if the leader doesnt even command the confidence of their own MPs then they are doomed. corbyn and truss should never have been leaders of their parties.

imo, what is most clear is that party members should have zero say in who becomes party leader as they are not accountable to the electorate, that falls to the MPs who have to work with the leader. if the leader doesnt even command the confidence of their own MPs then they are doomed. corbyn and truss should never have been leaders of their parties.



A good point well made

We have reality TV voting mentality making big decisions.

Great for Murdoch and Co who used to influence
vast swathes of population by showing them tits
for breakfast. They still influence some of the half wits,
by pointing at boats...

the ever readable henry hill's view

https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/17/neither-side-in-the-looming-tory-wars-is-yet-prepared-to-be-honest-about-why-it-failed/

https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/17/neither-side-in-the-looming-tory-wars-is-yet-prepared-to-be-honest-about-why-it-failed/

Thanks for that link.


When it comes down to arguing their perspective cases I think because they shout loudest the Right-wingers will win the argument and what's left of the party will move over to stand firmly on UKIP / Reform's ground.

Who will lead them there is anyone's guess.

they are going to have to decide whether they are one-nation tories or populists/nationalists

Amusing article that just makes the case that they've been a sh!tshow since the moment Cameron walked into Number Ten. He's not wrong. But the Brexit zealotry massively accelerated their descent into lunacy and incompetence.

I notice none of the leftie losers mention the highest taxation since WW2.
Or the out of control levels of immigration.

I wonder why?

they are going to have to decide whether they are one-nation tories or populists/nationalists


I think that argument was effectively lost when UKIPers started to infiltrate them.

The funny thing is UKIPers like Johnson and David Frost were in charge of the Brexit negotiations yet still complain the deal wasn't proper Brexit!!

The Brexit deal we settled on, was little different to the one that May proposed that was thrown out by Parliament.
Johnson said he'd get Brexit done and he did. But tough talking from him and Frost is different to tough action.
The Tories did not deliver the Brexit that the people voted for.

One thing that we have had since Brexit is more money for the NHS.
In fact double which was promised on the side of that famous bus the remainers are so fond of mentioning.

Maybe they couldn't deliver it? US trade deal gone when Trump got beat.Probably making the best of a bad job but notions of it actually being an economic positive were based on a bygone era.

Only another 46 years to go for the benefits.

They seem to be giving Farage a free run and not attacking him,he was the one that proclaimed today that 'Britain is broken' (it isn't great tbh) and backtracking on his 'masters of our own destiny' pre brexit.

Tax and immigration have links to Farage due to the only brexit they could do.

NHS spending has been hit by the loss of 4% on gdp
caused by brexit.

Of course spending has gone up as planned but
we were supposed to get an extra boost from brexit
lies, but that's not happened except in the imagination
of idiots.

The broken Britain Farage goes on about has little to do with Brexit.

xcept in the imagination
of idiots.


Is that the cheap lager talking?

Farage says brexit has failed...

He's right on that.

I agree Brexit has been a bit of an economic disaster especially for small companies and food producers but single market membership comes with freedom of movement and I can't see that being popular with the public in the foreseeable future.

It(FOM) mightn't be popular but amounted to European lads being swapped with African and Asian lads.

This election is not about Brexit.

^ Is that for convenience? You have the Torys who implemented it,Reform(Brexit party) who pushed it and Labour who will try and deal with it.

You'll still get some zealots who'll cling to the idea that brexit can be salvaged, or that it would have been great if only...


That's fine for them. Let them cling to it. But they're a tiny minority.


Fact is millions were convinced to vote for it and were sold that it would transform the country and their lives. That we would be free to control ourselves, to stop immigration and have all these millions washing about that were being wasted. They've only seen incompetence and corruption from the ruling classes, immigration being bigger than it ever was before, and taxes going up and up while the quality of our public services going down and down. Those millions of people feel cheated. Feel they were lied to. It won't take an awful lot to convince them that re=joining the EU would now help them. I think it'll be the next election where we'll see re-joining the SM or CU be proposed on a manifesto so won't happen for a while. But while there are still arguments about immigration during this election, we're also seeing a lot of arguments about brexit and the fact that the big parties want to act like it's a historic event that's not to be talked about any more, the simple fact is that it can't be ignored and Labour will have to address it in the coming weeks and months.

So while the EU countries are also struggling with growth, the UK would be soaring to new economic heights if we we went back in?

I don't think so.

Dr Crippen18 Jun 24 11:28Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,895 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog
So while the EU countries are also struggling with growth, the UK would be soaring to new economic heights if we we went back in?

I don't think


Fixed it

It seems absurd that a split party full of extremists and odd balls, with a leader who keeps changing his views like Starmer does, are red-hot favourites to win a general election.
How many could even name one shadow minister?

Which proves again that most Labour voters will simply vote for the name 'Labour' with little understanding of what they're likely to get.

They might say that not being Tories is enough to get their votes. Well the lot that are in power aren't Tories either.

Which idiots voted for them




Dr Crippen18 Jun 24 11:28Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,895 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog


I don't think

How is it absurd?

Leave the crowd the broke Britain in again? Or take a chance with the 3 card trick man?

Clearly, leftie loser is more interested in stalking me than discussing the topic.

He needs another drink to cheer him up.

Simple truth is that this election is all about the rejection of tories. The sensible centrists are voting labour, the frothing right wingers will go to reform. More interesting thing is what happens to the tory party in the next few years, cos if they get that wrong it could be the end of them.

How is it absurd?

Because you're not voting for Labour on their merits. You're voting to get the Tories out regardless of the consequences.

Following your reasoning, you'd vote for any party that stood against them, and get more of the same.

People are looking at the likely probability that as alluded to in above post Labour surely couldn't do worse.

The sensible centrists are voting labour

No they're not.

Centrist don't vote labour. They might have voted for New Labour, but that was because of Blair.

Sensible people aren't voting. Or, weren't. I was planning to be extremely bearish on turnout, sub 60 in the running. RUK have put a spanner in those particular works.

Dr Crippen18 Jun 24 11:28Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,895 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog

I don't think

You think Refuk voters are new voters?

I think they've mopped up a fair few ex Bliar, ex tories

Not, imo, new voters, just easily led.

I do think turnout will be down, and the final result will be a bit tighter than current polls. Think a lot of people think the result's a foregone conclusion. The campaign is already dull as ditchwater and we've got weeks to go. People just want it to be done and a new government in and a lot will simply feel there's no point voting as it's all over anyway. I'm in a Labour 1.01 zone and you'd never think there's an election happening. No flyers through the door, no placards up in gardens or windows. The only sign is the tory candidate appears occasionally in the FB group to get mercilessly ribbed. But otherwise it's just any other tuesday.

Turnout hit low of 59% in 2001

Since then we've had (%)

61,65,66,69,67....and 72 brexit ref

guess around 67% this time, although the markets
see it around 63....

Yep, I'm in a marginal and the outgoing Tory MP standing again knows I voted for him last time around. Heard nothing. Obviously the Tories know they are toast and just going through the motions.

Simple truth is that this election is all about the rejection of tories. The sensible centrists are voting labour, the frothing right wingers will go to reform. More interesting thing is what happens to the tory party in the next few years, cos if they get that wrong it could be the end of them.


The Tories will be trapped between the Devil and the deep blue sea.

Starmer now occupies the centre-right Major and Cameron used to own. That leaves the Tories fighting with Farage for the hard-right vote.

Until Farage shuffles off this mortal coil the Tories are fcuked.

The campaign is already dull as ditchwater

Yep, liblabcon are total bores with nothing to inspire us, a liar, a bonehead and a clown, what a joke.

3 for price of one with farrage lying bone headed clown.

The collapse of the Tory vote should not be seen as an endorsement for Labour, with many former Tory voters predicted to stay at home or vote for Reform.

The die hard Labour vote always holds up. The proles always vote Labour.

In a few years time the Tories will be back unless Reform gets enough support.

Labour were in a similar position after 2019. Who would have predicted the position they're in now, with such a poor leader as well.

I thought you were describing Sir Kneeler there Donny.

Corbyn got 32%

Tories would love to get close to 32%

Kind of shows Labour voters won't vote for any Labour leader.

Labour will be taking on a flat economy, under them it can only go one way.

And that is down.

The electorate will want the Tories back soon enough, or Reform, when they've had enough.

You thought wrong, again, foinavon.

Tories say there's no money left, lol, irony.

Who will get hit the hardest when it all starts to bite under Labour?

The working classes as usual, plus the sick, lame, and lazy.

Not so Donny. Sir Splinters told us that one percent of women have a penis which makes him a liar, a clown and a bonehead all rolled up into one.

It's gone wrong under the tories.

It needs to be fixed.

Oh blame the plumber for your burst pipe he's come to fix.

Idiot.

^Lol.

You'll have a link for that foinavon...

If 99% of women don't have a penis then that implies 1% do.

tbf it was 99.9%. So he thinks 1:1000 females have a penis. Congratulations Prime Minister

Remember, there will be no golden legacy for Labour to squander this time.

Thanks for the correction Cider.

Lol, a 99.9% generalisation extrapolated for political gain.

Desperation, and idiots fall for it, and exaggerate it...

I don't believe Starmer believes for a second that any females have c0cks. It just shows he is willing to compromise on anything to keep people happy. He said what the far left wanted to hear to get power in the plp, now he's saying what centrists want to hear to get power over the whole country.

We have no idea what he will actually do. We do know he was a committed trot. So it's probably not too promising for all of us.

It's sort of hard to believe (but not) that the mainstream has completely given him a free pass on admitting his unequivocal backing of the far left Corbyn to take over the country was based on the hope that he was expecting him to be defeated heavily. It's a croc of shyte anyway!

He's not compromising, he used 99.9 as a throwaway
for hardly any.

So if he was asked how many humans have x ray vision, he would say 99.9% of them don't? walos

No he doesn't think any have x ray vision

So would say so.

Why make stuff up?

exactly

interviewer: KS, how many females have a penis?

KS: None


Quantum physics it is not.

yhtl

there is no point in arguing with Cider. None at all.

So on planet cider anybody born intersex would be
classified as male.

Good to know.

sirnorbert, imo what happens to the tories after the election will largely depend on how many of them are left and the make up of the parliamentary party. they have so many factions now its all a bit 'the people's front of judea'

in europe centre right parties trying to embrace populists have done themselves no favours. however, it is also the case that just as the 2019 tory coalition of voters was broad but shallow so will labour's be, if things dont go well for them populists could be embraced by the public again.

p or p, foinavon, there is a general election prediction thread and you two have taken part in previous ones, please fell free to do so in this one.

The People’s Popular Front citizen!

The current destruction of Irish Bog Bandits is not really a good thing. I am rather shocked by it and whilst part of me is enjoying it one should be careful of what they wish for.

I am also despondent about the rise in Populism. If we thought the current crop of liars is bad just wait and see what comes next.

It'll start at 3 seconds past 10 tonight when the exit polls are revealed.


The Conservative candidate in my area sent me an email warning me;

If you stay at home or vote for anyone else, you’ll hand Keir Starmer a supermajority, you’ll lose your voice and you’ll surrender your future to Labour.

Don’t give Starmer and Angela Rayner a blank cheque to change our country and ignore your values. 

They ignored what people voted for.

The voters now have the right of reply.

I shall enjoy watching it all unfold tonight.