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I think their problems started with the UKIPinisation of their party in 2010-2015. This poisoned the debate over Europe and led to the referendum in 2016.
The war between Remainers and the UKIP fraction did for May and led to the disaster which was Johnson and Truss and the abandonment of truth and decency with used to be the watchword of the party. Rishi never really stood a chance at this election but when he wheeled out The Big Lie Machine the party really was sunk. Gonna need a lot more than Epinephrine to revive this corpse. |
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They have lost what are always seen as traditional Conservative values, law and order particularly within their own party where lies and corruption have become the norm.
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SNC blaming all the problems in the world on UKIP......for goodness sake the Conservatives have to take responsibility for their own downfall as have we as human beings.....you and you alone are responsible for mistakes you make.....surely as an adult SNC you should know this by now
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Norbert all over the facts. 2019 and the Brexit manifesto delivered them the biggest majority since Thatcher. They of course fully reneged on that, and faced the pandemic which has finished off most gvnts in power at the time (or about to).
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We got BRINO and straight back to the globalist agenda, where the wets are more than comfortable, despite their rhetoric.
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BRINO?
What should have happened that didn't? |
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Big issue for the Tories is brexit and brexiteers.
They were always a broad church but since the vote the membership has been infiltrated by kippers determined to get their guy into the hot spot. Being a tory used to mean a load of things. Free economy, small state, law and order, pull yourself up etc etc. But the membership putsch and Johnson sacking anyone who wasn't a zealot just massively narrowed their focus. They lost a lot of quality and became beholden to one single (and most would say unattainable) policy. The red wall voters in 2019 hav now been turned off as they see them as incompetent. Traditional tories think they're useless and batsh!t, and now even the brexit zealots are turning to their next superhero to make it all better. Chances are they won't heed any of these lessons and the next leader will also lurch to the right and wang on about immigration with the likelihood being that it might play well with the small minority on that side of the divide but will further distance themselves from the millions in the centre. Oblivion awaits. |
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They are not the Conservative party of Thatcher
Clark, heseltine, major, and big wi[b][b]lly whitelaw. Having seen Labour defeated bigly as they went to left, the right wing extras should have been patted on the head, thanked for their votes, and put back in their box. Tail is wagging the dog as they race to the bottom. |
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They are not the Conservative party of Thatcher
Clark, heseltine, major, and big willy whitelaw. Having seen Labour defeated bigly as they went to left, the right wing extras should have been patted on the head, thanked for their votes, and put back in their box. Tail is wagging the dog as they race to the bottom. |
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https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/17/david-gauke-the-tory-right-will-try-to-shift-the-blame-but-the-looming-electoral-disaster-is-of-their-making/
david gauke's view, he was a reaminer who voted to leave the eu every time there was a bill in parliament to take us out, unlike the erg morons. before one of the loons claims may's deal was 'brino' it should be noted that it involved leaving the sm (and its regulatory orbit) which means it was a hard brexit. imo, what is most clear is that party members should have zero say in who becomes party leader as they are not accountable to the electorate, that falls to the MPs who have to work with the leader. if the leader doesnt even command the confidence of their own MPs then they are doomed. corbyn and truss should never have been leaders of their parties. |
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imo, what is most clear is that party members should have zero say in who becomes party leader as they are not accountable to the electorate, that falls to the MPs who have to work with the leader. if the leader doesnt even command the confidence of their own MPs then they are doomed. corbyn and truss should never have been leaders of their parties.
A good point well made |
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We have reality TV voting mentality making big decisions.
Great for Murdoch and Co who used to influence vast swathes of population by showing them tits for breakfast. They still influence some of the half wits, by pointing at boats... |
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the ever readable henry hill's view
https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/17/neither-side-in-the-looming-tory-wars-is-yet-prepared-to-be-honest-about-why-it-failed/ |
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https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/17/neither-side-in-the-looming-tory-wars-is-yet-prepared-to-be-honest-about-why-it-failed/ Thanks for that link. When it comes down to arguing their perspective cases I think because they shout loudest the Right-wingers will win the argument and what's left of the party will move over to stand firmly on UKIP / Reform's ground. Who will lead them there is anyone's guess. |
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they are going to have to decide whether they are one-nation tories or populists/nationalists
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Amusing article that just makes the case that they've been a sh!tshow since the moment Cameron walked into Number Ten. He's not wrong. But the Brexit zealotry massively accelerated their descent into lunacy and incompetence.
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I notice none of the leftie losers mention the highest taxation since WW2.
Or the out of control levels of immigration. I wonder why? |
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they are going to have to decide whether they are one-nation tories or populists/nationalists
I think that argument was effectively lost when UKIPers started to infiltrate them. The funny thing is UKIPers like Johnson and David Frost were in charge of the Brexit negotiations yet still complain the deal wasn't proper Brexit!! |
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The Brexit deal we settled on, was little different to the one that May proposed that was thrown out by Parliament.
Johnson said he'd get Brexit done and he did. But tough talking from him and Frost is different to tough action. The Tories did not deliver the Brexit that the people voted for. |
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One thing that we have had since Brexit is more money for the NHS.
In fact double which was promised on the side of that famous bus the remainers are so fond of mentioning. |
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Maybe they couldn't deliver it? US trade deal gone when Trump got beat.Probably making the best of a bad job but notions of it actually being an economic positive were based on a bygone era.
Only another 46 years to go for the benefits. They seem to be giving Farage a free run and not attacking him,he was the one that proclaimed today that 'Britain is broken' (it isn't great tbh) and backtracking on his 'masters of our own destiny' pre brexit. Tax and immigration have links to Farage due to the only brexit they could do. |
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NHS spending has been hit by the loss of 4% on gdp
caused by brexit. Of course spending has gone up as planned but we were supposed to get an extra boost from brexit lies, but that's not happened except in the imagination of idiots. |
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The broken Britain Farage goes on about has little to do with Brexit.
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xcept in the imagination
of idiots. Is that the cheap lager talking? |
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Farage says brexit has failed...
He's right on that. |
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I agree Brexit has been a bit of an economic disaster especially for small companies and food producers but single market membership comes with freedom of movement and I can't see that being popular with the public in the foreseeable future.
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It(FOM) mightn't be popular but amounted to European lads being swapped with African and Asian lads.
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This election is not about Brexit.
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^ Is that for convenience? You have the Torys who implemented it,Reform(Brexit party) who pushed it and Labour who will try and deal with it.
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You'll still get some zealots who'll cling to the idea that brexit can be salvaged, or that it would have been great if only...
That's fine for them. Let them cling to it. But they're a tiny minority. Fact is millions were convinced to vote for it and were sold that it would transform the country and their lives. That we would be free to control ourselves, to stop immigration and have all these millions washing about that were being wasted. They've only seen incompetence and corruption from the ruling classes, immigration being bigger than it ever was before, and taxes going up and up while the quality of our public services going down and down. Those millions of people feel cheated. Feel they were lied to. It won't take an awful lot to convince them that re=joining the EU would now help them. I think it'll be the next election where we'll see re-joining the SM or CU be proposed on a manifesto so won't happen for a while. But while there are still arguments about immigration during this election, we're also seeing a lot of arguments about brexit and the fact that the big parties want to act like it's a historic event that's not to be talked about any more, the simple fact is that it can't be ignored and Labour will have to address it in the coming weeks and months. |
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So while the EU countries are also struggling with growth, the UK would be soaring to new economic heights if we we went back in?
I don't think so. |
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Dr Crippen18 Jun 24 11:28Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,895 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog
So while the EU countries are also struggling with growth, the UK would be soaring to new economic heights if we we went back in? I don't think Fixed it |
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It seems absurd that a split party full of extremists and odd balls, with a leader who keeps changing his views like Starmer does, are red-hot favourites to win a general election.
How many could even name one shadow minister? Which proves again that most Labour voters will simply vote for the name 'Labour' with little understanding of what they're likely to get. They might say that not being Tories is enough to get their votes. Well the lot that are in power aren't Tories either. |
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Which idiots voted for them
Dr Crippen18 Jun 24 11:28Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,895 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog I don't think |
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How is it absurd?
Leave the crowd the broke Britain in again? Or take a chance with the 3 card trick man? |
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Clearly, leftie loser is more interested in stalking me than discussing the topic.
He needs another drink to cheer him up. |
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Simple truth is that this election is all about the rejection of tories. The sensible centrists are voting labour, the frothing right wingers will go to reform. More interesting thing is what happens to the tory party in the next few years, cos if they get that wrong it could be the end of them.
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How is it absurd?
Because you're not voting for Labour on their merits. You're voting to get the Tories out regardless of the consequences. Following your reasoning, you'd vote for any party that stood against them, and get more of the same. |
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People are looking at the likely probability that as alluded to in above post Labour surely couldn't do worse.
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