Non-Doms - And away they go , taking their overseas money with them....

Lewis Hamilton is perfectly entitled to claim back the VAT as he us non resident for tax purposes. What point are you trying to make?

I don't approve of the TV tax dave 1357 nor do I approve of the rule change for those aged 75 and over.

Lewis Hamilton is perfectly entitled to claim back the VAT as he us non resident for tax purposes. What point are you trying to make?

I'm using it as proof by example that the Pro Nom Dom argument that they pay tax on UK good's and services is not True.

Nom Dom's get all of UK's Amenities & Civilisations for free, and also get subsidised by the UK tax payers because most of the "employment"  they generate such as cleaners, maids, etc are paid so little, their wages need topping up with UC and Housing benefit by the UK tax payer.

They are a net drain on the UK tax payer.

A non-dom earning £2m in the UK and billing it through an overseas company but not declaring it as UK earnings has committed tax fraud - not used some clever tax planning wheeze. 

It's exactly the same as if a UK resident did it - both committing tax fraud.

Non-doms are taxed on overseas' income remitted into the UK - so you are wrong on that point also.

I've told you , Lewis Hamilton is not a non-dom - he is British but has chosen to live abroad. He is non resident.  That is a completely different set of tax rules, nothing to do with non-doms at all. He will however , even as a non resident ,  pay UK tax on all of his earnings that arise in the UK - no doubt still a substantial amount , but not as much as he would have paid if he lived here - he would have been taxed on all of his worldwide income.

As much as it appears to irk you - the UK government will never have the power to charge overseas residents UK income tax on their overseas' earnings. Imagine if we could, we could tax the world !

Non- doms are, in simple terms, overseas' nationals who have chosen to live in the UK. Some yes are ridiculously rich. To attract them and their money here ,  we operated a scheme whereby they would pay full UK tax on their UK earnings etc , but would not have to pay UK tax on their overseas' earning not remitted into the UK. They would also be exempt from inheritance tax on their overseas assets. All that is changing , and people seem surprised that they are now clearing off and taking their substantial spending power and UK tax payments with them.

(Non-doms pay full UK VAT on everything they spend in the UK just like anybody else - all that VAT disappearing as well)

You obviously don't know how the Nom Dom tax status works JTG

I'll back myself - you are still waffling on about Lewis Hamilton and non-dom in the same sentence. You are clearly muddled.

If you work for a publicly funded BBC ,  pay your tax
Don’t dare to do anything else -
The lefties are such hypocrites

The entire tax the rich issue could be solved by introducing "no citizenship without taxation" as in the US. Citizens of tax havens like Monaco would be barred from entry to tax payer countries.

Of course, it will never happen because the political class are corrupted by the fear that they need the rich to help them keep power or help them after they leave office.

Sajid Javid, the health secretary, has been drawn into the “non-dom” controversy after admitting he held the status for six years while a banker, allowing him to legally avoid tax on overseas earnings.

He also admitted to holding wealth in an offshore trust until he became a minister in 2012,

Before he became an MP in 2010, Javid said, he spent some years as a non-dom, giving this up in 2009.

Javid was born in UK.


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    Sajid Javid’s right to the “non-dom” status he held before entering parliament has been questioned by tax experts, who said the fact the UK health secretary was an international banker and his father was born in Pakistan would not be enough to entitle him to the perk.

Anyone using slurs such as "lefties" in this topic are just admitting they've lost he plot, They don't have an understanding of Nom Dom and tax avoidance and the effects on the UK tax payer.

But love their own irrelevant thoughts so much they can't resist blurting them out.

There's a very good reason for the tax loopholes.

It allows these people to expand using this avoided tax money, this creates jobs for others. They won't do it if we take all their profits in tax.  And they couldn't do it even if they wanted if that were the case. They'd just invest thier money somewhere else.
They literally have to expand to avoid paying tax on profits.

This is the only way real jobs are created. They're not pretend public sector jobs that earn f'all, and are a burden on everybody else.
But real jobs that create real wealth.

Think about that before you kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

when are they going so we can wave goodbye at the airport?

jtg's hobby-horse - convinced the economy will collapse without the non-doms

We need the rich Dave, because they innovate, they take the risks , they invest , they create the jobs and they pay the lion's share of the tax that keeps the whole UK show on the road.

23 million UK adults pay no income tax at all. We need somebody to be chucking a few quid into the pot.

Sadly it won't be the non-doms , they are clearing off.

Never mind we can all pay in a little more to make up the loss , or increase our debts , or cut our public services.

Bassim Haidar is house hunting. He owns “more than 10 properties” in central London, including a £20m five-bedroom flat near Chelsea’s Sloane Square. But he said he had decided to “urgently” leave the UK to avoid paying millions of pounds in tax after the government's plan to scrap the “non-domicile” regime, which has allowed Haidar, and 68,800 other non-doms, to avoid paying UK tax on their overseas income for the past 225 years.

Haidar is starting his search for a new house – and tax-domicile – this week. First in Monaco, the tax-free principality on France’s Côte d’Azur, and then tax-free Dubai. “What’s the logic of me living in the UK when other countries are offering no taxes at all? In Monaco there are no taxes, and no inheritance tax.

“We already have a property very close to Monaco, in the south of France. But we want to live in Monaco and become Monaco residents, and just spend time between both properties.”

Haidar, 53, who was born in Nigeria but has Lebanese citizenship, donated £360,000 to the Conservatives last year. He said he was not consulted by the government or the Tory party about the decision to scrap the non-dom tax scheme, but that he did not expect to receive special consultation because of his donation.

Haidar said he was sad to be leaving London, a city that he has called home for more than a decade, but said he had to leave to save his four children the risk of paying inheritance tax on his fortune.

Should bring in a wealth tax for folk owning UK property
wot have fecked off to avoid tax.

Force him to sell them.

Inheritance tax is the most iniquitous tax and evil  under heaven
Imho

has he gone yet

I’ll never be forced to sell a property ,  would leave it empty for 70 ,, or more years

inheritance tax the fairest of all. why should people get money they haven't earned without paying tax?

If somebody wants to live long term in uk they should
pay uk taxes and accept our laws.

If they are temporary visitors, say 3 years and under
we should offer them special schemes.

But if they want to stay on, then no special favours...

Or even 200 years …

Just to clear , as a non-dom his UK assets would still be charged to inheritance tax and his UK earnings subject to tax (no doubt substantial rental income) He was also setting up a business here (fully taxable) - but now decided to clear off , because we want to tax his overseas earnings and assets that have never touched  the UK.

We are asking him to pay what is in effect a substantial voluntary tax  , and then seem surprised when he says - I'm outta here.

AT a house belongs to the individual ,, no one else
We fought for that right in the 13c

The right to own property , and inherit property was fought for and we wrote that book centuries ago
And wrote the Magna Carta ,, how glorious

If he wants to live in uk he should pay his share.

He can still set up a business without living in uk
he can pay his 200k in Italy or wherever he goes, theres
already a queue to replace him.

AT - there is an argument that IHT is in fact the unfairest tax of them all -   it taxes wealth twice -  the person dying has already paid tax when accumulating the dough in the first place - to take another 40% when they die seems harsh to many , but not obviously those that have very little.

inheritance tax the fairest of all. why should people get money they haven't earned without paying tax?

More green eyes, IHT is double taxation. I received a birthday card with a tenner in it the other day, I didn't earn it so I'll be sending a two pound coin to number 11 when I get around to it.

There isn't a queue to replace him - that's the point - they are leaving.

Worked and lived in America for some years , never paid tax in US ( it was rumoured in the ether )
Never happened ,, paid tax in U.K.
I wasn’t going to pay tax in both countries I can assure you

I am nog sure if the answers here but I think some sort of Manx or property tax might be ins jc the ways to reduce the burden of taxing income. People with assets have done well out of Governments printing money. I don’t know how an Asset Tax would work but the feeling of unfairness that ordinary working people are picking up the bill might also help.

Now we are being warned that we may have to pick up the tab fir Thames Water because Banks thought the Government almost guaranteed Public Utilities. Fears of contagion and increased borrowing costs might result in those working for income having to pick up the banks tab.

One thing we can say is thd rich are having it off and it is leading to a breakdown in society.

inheritance tax the fairest of all. why should people get money they haven't earned without paying tax?

More green eyes, IHT is double taxation. I received a birthday card with a tenner in it the other day, I didn't earn it so I'll be sending a two pound coin to number 11 when I get around to it.



Deduct the stamp from yer £2,...

There isn't a queue to replace him



Yer having a giraffe

You obviously tax dodged in the US , but didn't get caught. You weren't being clever - just lucky.

You wouldn't have paid tax twice either - we have a double tax treaty with the US (and many other countries ) that prevents exactly that.

What parts of America lfc?

I’ll tell you why yhtl .. you have no say on who I leave a house to , and likewise any such decision of yours and your loved ones
That’s my decision .. now get that into your head

Don’t touch inheritance tax ,  tax when working fine
No problem

We didn't operate a nightclub queuing system ...'one in one out'  - if they wanted to come they could.

Wichita wd ,, they needed me so i made the rules

I've no problem on uk tax payers passing on earned income lfc.

I do have a problem with tax dodgers doing it, parasites.

The obvious question is why are they here to start with?

Easy Charlie, to bung the tories 1/3 of a million

Silly bloke probably expected to be listened to, or awarded a peerage...

I mean all of the non-doms, why are they here?

Well lots of them come to work here.

Some think they are entitled to hold us to ransom by
threatening to move elsewhere if they are subject
to same tax rules as citizens.

Others who are citizens use it to avoid tax.

I love America , or at least what it was

I can’t deny

Kansas

Only two things come out of Kansas

Everything has a price.

Rich Indian guy wants to live in the UK.

Accountant tells him he can live in the UK and it will cost him an extra £2m quid a year in UK taxes. "Yep - I'll do it" he says.

5 years later following the rule change his accountant tells him - it's now £10 million a year in UK tax and another £100m in Inheritance Tax when he dies - "Nah - it's nice here but not paying that price "

He leaves for somewhere more tax friendly  - and we are £2m quid a year worse off.

Harry paid education for a few quid and decks off with Megan too US. Harry says to tax payer thanks for the cash.

I’m sure you have watched planes, trains and automobiles wd
One of the top ten of my favourite films
But it was very rude about Wichita
I loved it , the place , the work , the people ..everything about it in the sunshine that made it look like heaven , and the snowfall
Would still be there if not for responsibilities

Let's not mince words, all non-doms living here are parasitic worms who only do it for tax reasons. Fck them all off. If you want to live in the UK then pay full whack for the privilege.

Somebody else will take his place as he took somebody else's.

No doubt when the sunacks feck off to usa they too
will be replaced.

We are a stepping stone, and they improve their cvs
by having uk address. Let them pay the going rate.

Happy to pay bungs to political party but not to pay fair taxes...

Never missed a day at work because of snowfall ,  and real snow
( although some American colleagues did lol ,, lovely to go into the factory very early in the morning and very few there

There we go Charlie - typical political point scoring trumping financial reality ie dumb.

What is 'fair' taxes ?

- the 23 million adults who pay no income tax - Are they paying their fair share ?

- but the non dom who might be paying £2m of UK tax , somehow isn't ?

I know who I want more of in the UK.

Spook a few of the 23 million into leaving and we will all be better off.

In the summer sunshine ? The first thing I noticed when taking  a break from work -outside the white painted hanger and buildings
was the quality of the light ,  upon the buildings and the landscape recall thinking this is how heaven must be like

May 2, 2024 -- 5:39PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

There we go Charlie - typical political point scoring trumping financial reality ie dumb.

If they want to live here then why don't they pay fair taxes? If they don't like it then they can fck off somewhere else.  Sunak and his wife included.

What is fair taxes?

Look how society is going if is that all the fault of the Muslims, Mayor Khan and the immigrunts?

Thd rich ard taking too much out of the system. They had their wealth to bribe law makers. Society needs rebalancing.

It’s your fault wd .. sorry to be so nasty , you deserve it

Johnny The Guesser • May 2, 2024 5:43 PM BST
What is 'fair' taxes ?

- the 23 million adults who pay no income tax - Are they paying their fair share ?

So that means 23 million are earning below £12,500, well done Tories.

Johnny The Guesser • May 2, 2024 4:52 PM BST
AT - there is an argument that IHT is in fact the unfairest tax of them all -   it taxes wealth twice -  the person dying has already paid tax when accumulating the dough in the first place - to take another 40% when they die seems harsh to many , but not obviously those that have very little.

this is a specious argument, double taxation is everywhere - i pay income tax and national insurance on my earnings then i go and fill up my cab and pay fuel duty plus vat on that, poor me i am victim of treble taxation.

most people pay zero iht and i imagine many of those who do pay it do so due to the ridiculous rise in house prices rather than their own hard work.

here is dan neidle on the double taxtion nonsense - https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/06/03/iht_terrible/


the 23 million figure is completely misleading too jtg, as you undoubtedly know.

Johnny The Guesser • May 2, 2024 4:31 PM BST
We need the rich Dave, because they innovate, they take the risks , they invest , they create the jobs and they pay the lion's share of the tax that keeps the whole UK show on the road.

Stop with the thatcher/reagan trickledown garbage.

Yes, talented people need to be rewarded. But if they want the freedom, relative safety and opportunities of western countries, they need to pay for it. If they want to live on some tax haven island, then fine, but they aren't going to Wien for the opera or London for the summer season, if they just take and don't give. Right to citizenship should equal obligation to pay tax. But don't worry, as I said, it will never happen.

No tear stains , no pointing from anyone in this country
who haven’t worked , who don’t work , who want to scrounge money of those who do
Pipe down ,, because we might start asking .. what are you doing ?

The rich pay those ‘ double taxes ‘ just like you you jollyswagman - be thankful

And they pay much much more

Pipe down lfc

The rich are squeezing the life out of society. Nearly everywhere is going to hell in a hand cart

Lol shaaddduuppp wd
I don’t give two hoots about living on the mean streets of London ,, in the rain orthe sleet or snow or any other st1hole
Don’t dare thieve someone’s house from them
The house they never had

Last time I was in London , just before Christmas
A group of beautiful young women were heading out for their works Christmas do
And one said to the tall young women leading,  Rebecca you’re too refined to get involved in anything like that
She spun round and said Shaauuduuouuup ! and glanced over at me with a raised eyebrow
Made me laugh

Why are prople taxed ?,, in theory in times of war , to pay for the war - good
Anything else is , your family etc is  in theory , your responsibility and suchlike is mine
Don’t forget that basic principle

Did you descend from a band of jolly highwaymen?

Who builds the roads lfc? The King?

I don’t have a car so couldn’t give a sh1t

Ok with that ?

Your bus uses the road, or taxi, or your friend giving you a lift.

Your post uses the road, and deliveries use road.

You'd miss it if it wasn't there..

Of course i have no problem paying tax
But I won’t if it invokes tax on my house ,, try and understand that

I won’t pay a penny of tax on that , not I not my loved ones , and not yours

Must be a pretty small house , or you haven't got much to show for a lifetime's graft, or both.

A single non-dom pays more income tax than 23 million adults combined and people think it's a good thing that are clearing off.

Madness.

Who is going to pay the billions needed for the public services sucked up by the 23 million ?

A man earning £1 over the threashold
pays more income tax than 23 million adults combined.

The tax dodging non dom ain't gonna pay it.

Treasury model has tax take rising with even the
Tory lite non dom scrappage

Guesser I have owned 6 pro properties
That means I am a millionaire .  Thanks

Guesser I have owned 6 pro properties
That means I am a millionaire .  Thanks

Guesser , it doesn’t take a lifetimes graft , to own one  property .. or seven or ten
If you don’t understand that you’ve feked up ,  fact

Fact

The idea is simple. There are about 3,000 billionaires in the world and in recent years they have been getting richer and richer. Demands on hard-up governments from ageing populations and the drive to achieve net zero are growing all the time. Rather than expect voters already struggling to make ends meet to pay more, how about a wealth tax on Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and their like?

This is an idea that has obvious attractions. As Joe Biden has pointed out, US billionaires make their money in ways that are often taxed at lower rates than the ordinary wage income of American workers. Overwhelmingly, their wealth comes from the rising value of their assets, and they use tax loopholes and legal accounting moves to minimise the tax they pay. Wealthy Americans pay an average tax rate on their incomes of just 8%. Biden thinks they should be paying a minimum of 25%.

The Brazilian government has an even more ambitious proposal – for an annual global tax levied at 2% on the wealth of the world’s billionaires. The French economist Gabriel Zucman has been asked to draw up a detailed plan for how a billionaire wealth tax would work ready for a meeting of G20 finance ministers in July.

Pre-pandemic, Zucman’s idea of an annual 2% tax on the wealth of billionaires would probably have been rejected out of hand, but Covid-19 and the energy shock imparted by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine have left governments in developed and developing countries desperately short of cash. The very poorest countries – who have suffered most over the past five years – don’t have the money to pay for much-needed investment in health or education, let alone tackling global heating.

The number of billionaires almost tripled in the 2010s and has continued to rise over the past four years, because the value of their assets – mostly shares and property – has been swelled by the policies pursued by central banks during the health emergency. Ultra-low interest rates and the bond-buying programmes known as quantitative easing meant money was cheap and plentiful. Stock market and property booms resulted, and even though people on much more modest incomes have also seen the value of their homes and pension plans increase, those with high levels of wealth to begin with were the biggest gainers. Even a 2% wealth tax would leave the rich much better off than they were a decade ago.

have they gone yet?

Mrs S singing mamas and papas hits, wistful look in her eye.

Daddy said we have to go to Amrika Little Rich ie

The OP makes a serious point.  It is the unsolvable problem behind worldwide ever increasing global inequality.  Which has increased even faster because of all the government money spent on COVID.  It's why incumbent governments everywhere are falling.  Somehow governments need to get together and co-operate to get this money back by taxing the wealth of the super rich.

YES!

Unfortunately, I think the likely victory of Trump in America will have more effect on this country than our election.  He'll welcome all the dirty money he can get and the super rich know that.

Yes again!

All is not lost just yet though

I was watching CNN the other night and they were lambasting Starmer and Sunak as lacklustre.  I had to laugh at the irony.

some might be surprised that as a Tory, I am in favour of a tax on wealth-provided that it is productive capital. If you are sitting on a business that is capable of employing 50 people and making a big profit but it is virtually dormant (and there are some) then you should be taxed to encourage you to sell. If you happen to live in a house that has gone from £20k to £500k in 40 years then you should not be subject to wealth tax.

By super rich, I'm talking at least £10m in assets, and i'd tier it so perhaps 0.25% on those from £10m to £20m, to perhaps 1.5% on those with over £100m.  Don't think it's feasible without international consensus.  The problem is that the super rich are sitting on so much money they are just buying up existing assets, increasing the asset price, increasing their wealth, and making assets more and more unaffordable to more and more people. Because of COVID Government money is now in the hands of the super rich, meaning less money for public services.

Still peanuts compared to NHS salaries if all are added together. I would not disagree if the people with the assets are not paying other taxes but the vast majority are paying a fortune in VAT, duties, NI for employees etc. etc. Not to mention donations to charities and so on.

Why does wealth end up in the hands of the wealthy ?
It's because they add value and produce goods and services that others want to buy, or they gamble and buy assets that they believe will go up in value ?
Of course , we only see the subset that tried and succeeded , not the many many more who tried and failed.

Or they bet on inside knowledge or get tory contracts.

How much of a gamble did Michelle Mone take?

Why does wealth end up in the hands of the wealthy ?


Because they are corrupt and criminal! As Michelle and Doug are about to find out!

Those oligarchs were just shrewd. Nothing else to see there.