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Kelly
08 May 22 12:48
Joined:
Date Joined: 08 Mar 01
| Topic/replies: 8,661 | Blogger: Kelly's blog
This needs to be repeated . Northern Ireland only exists because of decisions made in Westminster 100 years or more ago.

The last time there was a vote on All Ireland unity was in 1918 when 84% of the population of a then United Ireland voted for Irish Unity . This vote was conveniently parked undemocratically because of the fear that it would lead to a break up of Empire , and the loss of British cash cows such as India etc.

Had Ireland been left United there would have been no civil war in Ireland , Ireland would undoubtedly have joined the world war effort against Hitler , there would have been no "NI Troubles" , and no bombs in England associated with IRA activity. Relations between Ireland and England would have been much friendlier and co operative .

Plus more recently the DUP bolstering of successive Tory administrations would not have happened which would  probably have led to a softer Brexit ( if any at all) . 

The Northern Ireland protocol currently at the centre of some ( mainly unionist) debate is designed to prevent dumping of shoddy British goods into the European Union via a non controllable 375 mile border which meanders across farms , roads , rivers , waterways etc. A British border commission was supposed to be sorting that border out sensibly  back in 1922 , but needless to say "perfidious Albion "reneged on that too .

The NI protocol is not the most pressing issue in Northern Ireland at present , despite the efforts of DUP and co to pretend otherwise . It is largely a smoke screen invented by the DUP to hide behind in the light of inevitable political down turn associated with their infantile support for Brexit which was always going to be a disaster for Northern Ireland as it currently exists . Brexit fallout is the real culprit , but no one in Westminster will admit that at present . DUP backed the wrong horse , and continued to follow it when it jumped over the cliff .

Dominic Raab this morning claimed that 58% of the people of Northern Ireland supported the union , as usual he cannot assimilate real facts , and it is a source of continuous worry that an office bearer like him can be so remote from reality ( not for the first time) . The basis for his figures assumes that all Alliance voters would support staying in UK in a border poll , that is definitely not the case . I also know DUP and Unionist voters ( mainly farming oriented) who are not averse to rejoining the European Union via the border poll option , largely because of the impact of Brexit on their income .

Brandon Lewis has no credibility here in Northern Ireland ( and maybe little in England for all I know ) , the last decent Northern Ireland Secretary ( look at the despicable record of political non entities we have endured recently) was Julian Smith who managed to get the NI Assembly back up running .  His reward was to be shunted , I have my own views on that , maybe he was one of the few Conservatives to have sensible views which ran contrary to Boris's make believe .

These may be uncomfortable facts for a lot of people living in England ( mainly) , the Scots and the Welsh tend to have views more sympathetic to Ireland , south and north.

We in Northern Ireland cannot solve current problems , there needs to be  sensible pragmatic options led by Westminster . Doubt there is currently the brain power there to expedite matters .
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Report lfc1971 May 9, 2022 9:01 PM BST
By the way stop using misleading phrases and half truths
You say there were no ‘ provos’ in 68
But there was an IRA , in fact i was just reading today about John Hermon
head of the RUC who was sent to Coalisland as a young officer in the 1950s -
after an IRA bomb
Report unitedbiscuits May 9, 2022 9:03 PM BST
I'm on the side of Sinn Fein here in England.

Ireland is one country.

So gratifying to see the DUP gangsters kicked to the pavement.
Report lfc1971 May 9, 2022 9:07 PM BST
You’re quite entitled to your view biscuits
Good to see you are now a lover of democracy - that’s progress
Report unitedbiscuits May 9, 2022 9:14 PM BST
You’re quite entitled to your view biscuits - lfc

Knock yourself out.


Perfidious Albion was always hell-bent on reneging on the EU agreement - will be interesting to see how that plays out with the "Union," after QEII demise.
Report lfc1971 May 9, 2022 9:15 PM BST
Ah I see , still angry with democracy after all , tut tut
I guessed as much Laugh
Report unitedbiscuits May 9, 2022 9:19 PM BST
Hopefully, the contradictions of Brexit within the wider arms of Europe will lead to the destruction of the "Union."
Report lfc1971 May 9, 2022 9:22 PM BST
Whatever if it makes you feel better ok
It’s of no interest to me in any event
Might happen in ten years , maybe 100
Report lfc1971 May 9, 2022 9:24 PM BST
I can live anywhere on these islands , and in Europe
Isn’t that nice ? Happy
Report HallGreenSpy May 9, 2022 9:27 PM BST
Yet another thread where Brexit cannot go unmentioned. Will they ever let it go?? Crazy

Democracy rules and good luck to all.
Report Kelly May 9, 2022 10:57 PM BST
lfc , use of the term Sinn Fein/ IRA shows your colours . Anyone who uses that slogan type language would have to allow the term DUP/UVF .

There were no Provos in 1966 when the UVF , funded by the subsequent DUP founder kicked off what resulted in "The Troubles" , causing explosions / damage which was blamed on a virtually non existent IRA at that time .  Fomenting trouble , aiming to destabilise a weak Unionist government of the time led by Terence O'Neill , but with Bill Craig pulling the strings as Minister of Home Affairs . Coat trailing and loyalist rallies preceded the Civil Rights movement , destabilised what passed as a government at the time , and Paisley got rid of Terence O'Neill who was a fairly moderate unionist . But O'Neill had the temerity to engage in friendly discussions with Sean Lemass , the leader of the southern government . So in Paisleys eyes he had to go , you could not as a unionist be friendly with anyone remotely classified as Irish .

Reference the Unionist point of view to the current situation . Can you assure the forum lfc that any unionist in Northern Ireland does not have the same rights as anyone else in Northern Ireland .Unionists and non unionists alike have suffered equally from Brexit , but only the DUP are making such a big issue of the NI protocol , as a smokescreen . All the other parties except the TUV ( one Assembly member) recognise the problems associated with the protocol , but have signalled their intention to work towards a solution rather than downing tools .

The NI protocol is a matter between the UK and the EU , and the DUP were heavily involved with the UK government in establishing Brexit and all that was involved with Brexit . Again an example of the DUP backing the wrong horse and now wanting to call the race null and void .
Report lfc1971 May 11, 2022 7:08 AM BST
Kelly that’s more untruths , that’s every time you post now , not good

The ‘ provos ‘ didn’t exist in 66 - but the IRA did and the IRA were involved in bombing and murder in every decade
Paisley did not fund the UVF
Paisley didn’t ‘ get rid ‘ of O’Neil as you like to phrase it
He defeated him in an election - at the ballot box - that’s democracy do you not like that

Now that’s just the first few lines of your dishonest one sided republican viewpoint
The rest is nonsense also
Report Whisperingdeath May 11, 2022 11:57 AM BST
Sinn Fein the largest single party lfc

Democracy in actionWink
Report LoyalHoncho May 11, 2022 6:54 PM BST
The IRA did not exist in any meaningful shape, form or size in '66 so once again you are talking through a hole in your posterior.  The recruitment started/ignited like a wildfire after the Crown sponsored atrocities of Ballymurphy and Derry.
Try and get your facts right handholder.
The main instigator of the IRA of the "Troubles" was the British Crown.
Report akabula May 11, 2022 7:08 PM BST
unitedbiscuits
So gratifying to see the DUP gangsters kicked to the pavement.


Not sure why you feel the need to call them gangsters, care to post some links.
On the other hand though you seem happy that known terrorists are now the dominant party.
Report lfc1971 May 11, 2022 7:35 PM BST
Right honcho here are the facts

The first British soldier killed by the provisional IRA
was shot dead at Lepper St  North Belfast , Robert Curtis 20 years old
It was Feb 1971

Ballymurphy : August 1971
Londonderry : January 1972

Get your facts right before you start talking nonsense
Report lfc1971 May 11, 2022 7:48 PM BST
On the night Gunner Curtis was killed his unit had been ordered to assist colleagues
in the Queens Regiment nearby . The unit was brought in after widespread rioting in the area
We came down the road and a bonfire was burning and people were out throwing stones
and that’s when the shots were fired “
The volley of shots that claimed the life of gunner Curtis was the second burst of gunfire
aimed at his unit , which suffered several casualties that night
Report lfc1971 May 11, 2022 7:54 PM BST
That was the provisional IRA that committed that murder , and attempted murders -
at the start of 1971
Report Whisperingdeath May 11, 2022 8:38 PM BST
What’s your point lfc?

Our soldiers have killed people all over the World and you call people defending their communities terrorists?

Warped!
Report lfc1971 May 11, 2022 8:54 PM BST
WD you would be best crawling back to the Dr Who thread
You’ve a question to answer there …
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:21 PM BST
You certainly havent
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:25 PM BST
On-the-run Official IRA commander Joe McCann (24), was killed in the shooting in the Markets area of Belfast in April, 1972.

Forty nine years later, two former paratroopers, known as soldiers A and C, have gone on trial for his murder at Belfast Crown Court.

On the opening day of the non-jury trial, a prosecution lawyer told judge Mr Justice O’Hara the veterans had not been legally justified in opening fire on McCann as he ran away from them.
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:26 PM BST
The court heard that McCann was a member of the IRA Army Council who had been on the run from the authorities since the introduction of internment without trial in 1971.
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:36 PM BST
killed in action - 180 before the truce and another 17 after the truce. On 21 November 1921 the British army held a memorial service for its dead, of all ranks, of which it counted 162 up to the 1921 Truce and 18 killed afterwards. To an extent it depends how you define KIA in Ireland
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:38 PM BST

May 11, 2022 -- 6:54PM, LoyalHoncho wrote:


The IRA did not exist in any meaningful shape, form or size in '66 so once again you are talking through a hole in your posterior.

Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:39 PM BST
The Irish Republican Army (IRA) is a name used by various paramilitary organisations in Ireland throughout the 20th and the 21st centuries. Organisations going by this name have been dedicated to irredentism through Irish republicanism, the belief that all of Ireland should be an independent republic free from British rule.[1]


Flying Column No. 2 of the 3rd Tipperary Brigade of the Old IRA, photographed during the early 1920s. All organisations calling themselves "Irish Republican Army" claim legitimate descent (sometimes compared to apostolic succession) from this IRA of 1919–22.
The original Irish Republican Army (1919–1922), often now referred to as the "old IRA", was raised in 1917 from members of the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, later reinforced by Irishmen, formerly in the British Army in World War I, who returned to Ireland to fight against Britain in the Irish War of Independence. In Irish law,[2] this IRA was the army of the revolutionary Irish Republic as declared by its parliament, Dáil Éireann, in 1919.

In the century that followed, the original IRA was reorganised, changed and split on multiple occasions, to such a degree that many subsequent paramilitary organisations have been known by that title – most notably the Provisional Irish Republican Army which was a key participant during the Troubles. The contemporary IRA organisations each claim the sole right to use that name, as they each insist they are the only legitimate descendants of the original IRA
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:40 PM BST
Lfc you have no clue about Ireland ...try a visit
Report irishone May 11, 2022 9:45 PM BST
lfc1971 • May 9, 2022 8:26 PM BST
Now they see these same murderers being elected into government
No one from Sinn Fein IRA - and no one who votes for these murderers is in any place
to start preaching … about anything

Ignorant bigot pal
Report lfc1971 May 11, 2022 9:58 PM BST
In may 1971 the first British soldier to be killed by the official IRA
Robert Bankier Royal Green Jackets was killed by a unit led by McCann

In 1972 McCann was spotted by a member of the RUC special branch
who reported to the Army who were carrying out a road block
McCann was approached by an RUC officer who told him he was under arrest
He ran away , and was fired on by the soldiers . He was shot dead in joy street

I’ve lived and worked in N Ireland , been there on holiday and know more about it than you
Oh , and you’re the bigot mate
Report LoyalHoncho May 12, 2022 4:59 AM BST
Noticeably, in your reply to my post, you did not deny that the British Crown, through its army on the streets, committed atrocious murders of innocent women and children on the streets of Ballymurphy and Derry.
In your silence you thus condone those actions.
Nor did you deny that those atrocities acted like tinder in fanning a fire of IRA recruitment that would engulf Northern Ireland for decades to come.
I repeat that the IRA did not exist in anything like the size, shape or form it would go on to become until the devil Faulkner, given carte blanche by spineless Heath, gave the British Army orders to do what it wanted to curb an organisation that had nothing to do with the people of Ballymurphy or Derry.
Report Kelly May 12, 2022 5:59 AM BST
lfc , it is a matter of record ( South Down RUC) that Paisley funded the loyalists who caused explosions around 1966 . Gusty Spence was a big mate of Ian Paisley then . Those explosions were blamed on a non existent IRA ( tactics). In 1968 when The Troubles started seriously , the so called IRA had about 10 guns in the whole of West Belfast .  In contrast there were thousands of guns in the hands of people so called loyal to the Crown throughout Northern Ireland in the B specials and the UDR ( plus a predominantly Unionist police force the RUC ). My brother in law ( a moderate SDLP supporter) handed in his wild fowl shooting guns at the start of The Troubles because he was afraid of them falling in to the hands of republicans who were desperate for guns of any description .

Northern Ireland was essentially a police state , set up to maintain Unionist control of 6 of the 9 Ulster counties . The Unionists also attempted to borrow the term Ulster by incorporating it in various titles and references eg " ULSTER" Defence Regiment , "Ulster" will fight and Ulster will be right when the reference rightly was "Northern Ireland " or "The Six Counties". Those are historical facts , acknowledged world wide , not subject to propaganda as displayed throughout NI history in Unionist disposed circles .

Initially the British Army were deployed in Northern Ireland by the then Labour Government led by Harold Wilson to protect the catholic population who were under severe attack by loyalist mobs . There is historically accurate footage of the soldiers being welcomed in "Republican" strongholds such as West Belfast  with tea and buns by the locals . Internment and replacement of the initial English regiments by Scottish regiments in "sensitive" areas of Northern Ireland led to the tide turning and disenchantment with the Army .

These facts are not "republican rhetoric " , I am not a republican , any more than you are a loyalist supporter ( hopefully) given the loyalists track record during The Troubles ( which essentially they fired up ) . My sole political involvement was to join the Alliance Party shortly after it was formed in the early 70's , we struggled manfully to change the Orange/ Green aspect of Northern Ireland politics . Uphill battle in those bitterly partisan days , fraught with danger in moving about Belfast trying to talk sense into sectarian voters on both sides of the divide . 50 years later there is fruit on the tree , but acorns are slow to get to the height they attain as oak trees over 300 years and more .

The inescapable fact is that Northern Ireland now has changed so that the so called Loyalist / Unionist / Protestant ( take your pick) population is no longer in a substantial majority as it was back in 1921 . Birth rates , educational opportunities , and emigration of the less committed Unionist younger citizens ( largely attending university on the UK mainland , and staying there post graduation) has altered the voting structure .

The time for a border poll is not immediately , Sinn Fein in particular are savvy in that regard , they know their first shot at goal has to score , and they need to consolidate their vote and tactics south and north before they push the boat out . They will continue to talk up a border poll for electoral purposes , but like my own view they know that to win a workable border poll they need a portion of the current Unionist inclined voters/ citizens to jump ship and support them electorally at least . Hence the view that alignment with Europe via a border poll has been assisted substantially due to Brexit which has affected increasing numbers of farmers etc who traditionally were sympathetic to the Unionist cause . Sinn Fein have been laughing their legs off at the idiocy of the DUP over Brexit in particular , they have reigned in their oars and have just been sitting quietly watching the self destruction being effected on themselves by the DUP .

On another note lfc , what is the real workable alternative to the NI protocol ? Nobody , least of all the nincompoops representing the Conservatives has come up with any sensible workable alternative to the current arrangement (which meets logic criteria and is the inevitable fallout from a hard Brexit) .
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 7:46 AM BST
Kelly , it is not a matter of record that Paisley funded the attacks on electricity installations in 69 or any others
He didn’t , and there is zero evidence that he did . In 1965 the Shankill loyalists and Gusty Spence sent Paisley
a letter accusing him of treachery .
Next paragraph ; N Ireland was not a police state and not anything resembling a police state at any time
And in the 1960s NI life was no different to any other part of the U.K. with all the freedoms and way of life that entailed
Life for everyone was good just as it was everywhere else in Britain in those times . Those are the facts .

Now Kelly you say the inescapable fact is that NI has changed , yes and no . And no more than there have been changes
throughout Britain . It is probably true to say there have been much greater changes in the south of Ireland over that time
The people haven’t changed , some are unionists , some nationalist same as it ever was . But yes the demographics have
changed . And there may now be almost more nationalists than unionists . That’s life and nothing much will change that
When there is s referendum the people can vote . And the people can decide , that’s fine
Report irishone May 12, 2022 7:51 AM BST
Another dildo comment "the south of ireland"

You dont even know where that is LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report irishone May 12, 2022 7:55 AM BST
"i’ve lived and worked in N Ireland , been there on holiday and know more about it than you"

"N Ireland was not a police state and not anything resembling a police state at any time"



Lies .....we have a bigot in our midst
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 8:10 AM BST
Honcho , I’m not interested in your or anyone else’s support for the IRAs terrorist campaign
of bombings and murder of innocent men women and children . Doubtless you think the hunger
strikes and time spent in the holiday camp of the h blocks helped recruit people into the IRA
Now the IRA did commit those murders as I have described before ballymurphy and Derry
And the IRA did receive support , and aid , and protection and help from the nationalist people in these areas
When the British army goes to arrest IRA members in these areas it is the duty of everyone in those areas to
not to riot , and not to help shield and not to help these murderers escape . That’s what the nationalists
and republicans of these areas did and that makes them accomplices in the bombing and murders that the IRA
committed
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 8:14 AM BST
irishone .. stop projecting by using the term bigot or lier
That’s not nice or clever

The south of Ireland ?  that’s a little bit of banter  between lapsy and myself
Ask him about the north -you as usual haven’t a clue
Report irishone May 12, 2022 8:17 AM BST
You talk absolute bolleaux mate
Northern Ireland was never a police state
Absolute sh1te
Report irishone May 12, 2022 8:19 AM BST
Plus you are bigoted in your leanings
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 8:21 AM BST
Irishone just because a dishonest bigot such as yourself states something doesn’t make it so
Now my description of N Ireland in the 60s is correct
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 9:17 AM BST
Kelly , you make great play about being Alliance - perhaps you could explain why makes your
nationalist political outlook any different from other nationalists - or unionists for that matter
It’s not apparent in anything you say .
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 9:17 AM BST
* explain what
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 9:54 AM BST
Tbf to Lfc Irishone he does use 'South of Ireland' and that is in part because i refer to it as the Island of Ireland and any fool can look at a map and say yes,thats Ireland there.Just because a bit got taken off it a hundred years ago(like what the Russians are doing to Ukraine now),it is still all Ireland.

Kelly is quite neutral and i have no doubt he is v honest in his postings,if he says he supports Alliance he would do and that in itself is a good thing. He is Irish,lives in the Northern part and loves the country.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 11:13 AM BST
That’s all fine and good lapsy but that’s not what I’m asking

I’m asking Kelly how does he differ from any other nationalist , (or indeed unionist )

Because it’s not apparent in his posting
Report Kelly May 12, 2022 11:55 AM BST
lfc , suggest you research your history of the Rev Ian Paisley to know exactly the sort of person he was and how he used people to do his dirty work . Gusty Spence was a regular visitor to Paisleys home in the evenings . Lord knows what discussions took place there .

If you google his history the second paragraph of "Opposition to the Civil Rights movement" ties Paisley up with all the emerging loyalist movements and gangs active in 1966 . Gusty Spence in particular had a long history of being involved in all 3 letter loyalist movements since the 1950's . Anyone who was either a catholic , or a civil rights worker , or had the temerity to be be running a business in the "wrong" part of town ( Belfast) was deemed to be fair game for being attacked in some way . Paisley held meetings at which he shouted out the names and addresses of catholics "worthy of attention". In later years Spence ( allegedly) commented that he wished he had never met Paisley . In those later years Spence wised up and rectified in some way his prior terrorist activity by involvment in the "Peace Process". 

The South Down RUC report clearly specified documentary evidence of Paisleys part in funding the purchase of explosives which were part of the plan to destabilise Northern Ireland . Paisley was targetting the NI government led by Terence O;Neill which Paisley deemed was deemed to be too friendly towards catholics and the Southern Irish government . "Taigs out" was the mantra of Paisley and associates in the 3 letter loyalist groupings , one led by Gusty Spence .

At this time there was virtually no IRA active in Northern Ireland , and they had little or no support among the catholic community which was being targetted by Paisley and loyalist groupings . The Provos emerged as a defence against loyalist and state violence in later years , Paisley and co were the main fomenters of civil unrest in the 1960's here .  Anyone who doubts that did not live through that period here , or led a sheltered existence and was only conversant with redacted history / propaganda . I have no truck with the Provos or Sinn Fein , but they have to be viewed in the wider context of history ,  not just via  a redacted version .

Still no workable solution to the NI protocol problem being documented here by you lfc . Answers on a postcard to Brandon Lewis , copy to us here lfc .
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 12:05 PM BST
^ qed

I see you haven’t answered my question Kelly
Until you can or make an attempt to I’m not going to believe anything you say , sorry

Take your time ….
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 12:10 PM BST
If you even make an attempt to do so it would be good

If you can’t , then that tells us all we need to know about your so called ‘ alliance party ‘
and indeed yourself

Go ahead …
Report cryoftruth May 12, 2022 12:57 PM BST
The problems of the Brexit/Good Friday agreement are palpable.

The hard brexit favoured by the Tories with the DUP support are simple. If you have a hard brexit there has to be a trade barrier between U.K. and EU. Ireland is in the EU

Either there is a border between Ireland and U.K. or between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Good Friday agreement is clear - no border on the island of Ireland.

Therefore has to be a border in Irish Sea.

This dismays Unionists.

Why therefore did the DUP support brexit and prop up the Tories and support the get brexit done rubbish spouted by the Sleaze?
Report Kelly May 12, 2022 1:09 PM BST
I don't have any questions to answer lfc . My views and reportage stand the test of scrutiny as unbiased . The DUP versions of history which you presumably support are completely bigoted , after all some of their most active members believe the world started in 4000 BC .

Interesting that you now seem to be anti Alliance judging by your comments . Wonder why ?

Still no answer from you to my straightforward question "What do you replace the NI protocol with which is compliant with Brexit and international agreements " ?

Your disagreement with my version of history is based on your personal mindset , and your attempt to deflect questioning or logical answers is typical of someone who has backed a loser and does not want to acknowledge the fact .
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 1:19 PM BST
Kelly that’s all very well but I’m not questioning your view of history
I happen to disagree with it and think it is narrow and biased and dishonest

Nevertheless that isn’t the question - the question is this

You profess to vote and a supporter of the ‘ alliance ‘ party

How do your views and political beliefs differ from any other nationalist ( or indeed unionist )

Go ahead …
Report Kelly May 12, 2022 1:40 PM BST
And just for the record lfc:

Sinn Fein was formed in 1905 as a political movement .  The Provos ( whom you refer to as IRA ) were formed in 1970 approx in response to loyalist and state activity essentially .

The UVF were active before 1912 , at which stage they were instrumental in propagating the seditious document which became the underlying basis for partition and the creation of Northern Ireland . Add in the Curragh mutiny where the then Army refused to follow orders issued by Westminster and you might begin to appreciate the events which led to the 1916 Rising and the turbulent years which followed that affecting every person in Ireland , south and north . The UVF introduced the gun into Irish politics , even the most biased Unionists admit this .

In the early sixties the majority of catholics/ nationalists would have accepted the status quo of Northern Ireland if there had been a level playing field aspect to community here . Terence O'Neill was trying to move ( slowly) towards more equality , hence he had to go in Paisleys eyes ,the sooner the better , no matter what the method / tactics . "We are the people " was never far from those ultra Unionists lips in those days . The fact that there is more or less a level playing field ( post GFA) nowadays is what sticks in their craw . Despite the fact that they have the same rights as everyone else in Northern Ireland . But their embedded position as top dog having disappeared and their foot having been taken off nationalist necks they cannot stomach .
Report Kelly May 12, 2022 1:59 PM BST
lfc , Alliance political viewpoint and historical activity ( as mine)will stand up to scrutiny before any unbiased jury in the world , based on equal rights for all citizens . Alliance are not beholden to any church or any secret organisations or orders , have no spots reserved for appointees and do not require any royal assent . All the world accepts that , with the possible except of Jim Allister and a sizeable rump of DUP supporters . Labelling Alliance supporters as nationalist is just another pathetic attempt by ultra unionists to scare part of the Northern Ireland electorate into the "No Surrender" camp . Fear influences attitudes , spectacularly in Northern Ireland political history. Paisley was the master at that.

Still no solution to the NI protocol problem coming from you lfc.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 2:01 PM BST
Still no answer Kelly - you see if you are unable to answer just say so
At least that would be more honest
You see I’m not easily fooled by people who profess to be something that they are not

Now for the final time as an ‘ alliance ‘ voter
How does your political view and outlook differ from any other nationalist ( or unionist )

Let me know when and if you can ….
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 2:10 PM BST
That’s ‘ you ‘ Kelly

I’m asking how you differ and how your views differ from any other nationalist ( in your case )or unionist

Go ahead …
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 2:12 PM BST
Can you point to any of your posts on this thread as evidence ?
Report peckerdunne May 12, 2022 3:28 PM BST
I'd suggest Lfc you haven't questioned or challenged any of the factual details Kelly has posted but do latch on tightly to the one thing that is probably indisputable from his perspective but can't be validated for you, partly because you have a preconceived idea of his position through a narrow lens of bias and anticipate you can nail him around this for his honesty but in fact the reverse is the case a bit like the NATO border.
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 3:34 PM BST
You can comment on the poor family of Sean Brown Lfc,you like to bring up just the one side.
The police had to pay an undisclosed sum to the family,they(the PSNI) are another who also took just the one side.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 4:25 PM BST
pecker , lapsy I don’t need any baloney from people like Kelly or anyone else talking about NI
When I know what that country was like intimately . Now I’ve addressed all the questions many times

I’ve asked Kelly a question which he hasn’t answered …
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 5:00 PM BST
You haven't answered re Sean Brown yourself.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 5:05 PM BST
Tell me what you think happened in that case
And I’ll take a look - now remember I like facts
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 5:07 PM BST
While you are at it and you can look yourself,tell me was there collusion between loyalist terrorists,the NI police and the British Govt.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 5:09 PM BST
I’ll check in later to your reply lapsy
Put down what you think happened - thanks
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 5:12 PM BST
Every file on the case went 'missing' Lfc,it was a cover up,there you are.

At least you haven't denied the police/loyalist terrorist/British govt,links because you simply can't.
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 5:27 PM BST
Check in later, put up something like 'look over there', big bags of money being handed out left right and centre because you by fook tried to cover things up and still are.

A rotten shower,is that the real loyalist NI love of Westminister? covering up their sheet?

FFS traitors to the people of NI,a selfish intolerant horrible lot.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 7:20 PM BST
ok , here is what we know : The PSNI made an undisclosed settlement t
to Mrs Brown , and also issued an apology over inadequacies in the RUCs original investigation

Now there have been hundreds of unsolved murders over the last 40 years
And many more throughout these islands . If there was to be a retrospective and detailed investigation
going back over the police investigations into those unsolved murders ,
Do you think there would be mistakes found to be made in many , and perhaps all of those cases ?
Certainly there would without any doubt . That’s what we know .
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 7:27 PM BST
If you have any other evidence lp that shows anyone other than
members of the LVF were guilty of this murder , let us know …
Report lapsy pa May 12, 2022 8:23 PM BST
Are they like that? do they give undisclosed settlements out willy nilly? Why did they do that?
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 9:03 PM BST
Change in the law a few years ago in a ruling against the met police
Hitherto police forces had been immune from claims of negligence
The Supreme Court majority ruling ‘ The important point to make
is that if the investigation is seriously defective , even if no systemic
failures are present , this will be enough to render the police liable ‘

The Yard said it accepted the judgement and unreservedly apologised
to the victims , who had been awarded compensation totalling nearly £ 50,000
Report Whisperingdeath May 12, 2022 9:34 PM BST
You don’t know what the country was like intimately lfc

You gave big gif a clue about the Protestant terror gangs and the collusion  of the security forces in the murder of many people.

You have not got a clue who the terrorists were or are

You are part of the problem with your lies and misinformation, a dangerous rat. Vermin need dealing with.
Report lfc1971 May 12, 2022 11:28 PM BST
^ drivel
Report Kelly May 13, 2022 12:09 AM BST
The Alliance party has no priority regarding the constitutional position of Northern Ireland , it accepts that the status quo exists unless democratically voted against by a majority as set out in the GFA . They have no agenda espousing the cause for or against re-joining the EU . The loyalist DUP , the moderate Ulster Unionist , the ultra loyalist TUV ( 1 MLA) , all have staying within the UK as their primary objective at all costs . Sinn Fein and the SDLP both have re unification of Ireland at stated priority levels .

Cannot see how that helps any debate on here , every person who knows anything about NI ( and particularly someone as knowledgeable as you claim to be re events here) knows the party stances .

The real unanswered question here at present lfc is your proposal as to how to solve the NI protocol problem . Legally . And without diminishing the UK's international standing . Answer please lfc .
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 6:50 AM BST
Kelly I’m not particularly impressed that the ‘ alliance’ party claims  to
respect democracy - although in practice it’s  quite another matter
Now as to your question regarding the protocol , it can probably stay
But the sea border should not . And the south of Ireland and republicans and nationalists
should grow up and act responsibly and do the customs checks that they are required to do in EU territory

And if the south of Ireland will not accept its responsibilities as an EU member
The EU then should as a final resort check the produce coming out of the south
of Ireland into France

There you go . Now stop whining .
Report LoyalHoncho May 13, 2022 8:39 AM BST
Isn't it ironic how the Unionist apologists talk about the "last forty years" without ever mentioning the previous forty and all the totally unnecessary civil rights abuses and work and social deprivations etc;, visited upon the catholic communities, which largely caused the trouble in the first place.
And the biggest apologist is of course lfc1971.  The "B" Special spin doctor.
Report Kelly May 13, 2022 10:11 AM BST
lfc, after badgering me about not answering ( your words) how the Alliance party differs from nationalist and unionist parties , you respond blandly that you are not sure about the Alliance party's democracy .  There was no question to answer , presumably you were trying to score some point if I answered a question which does not need addressing by anyone with a scintilla of knowledge about life on the ground here in Northern Ireland .

Having failed to gain anything from your continual posts asking for information which you profess to know intimately via your assertive posts re NI ( your own view , skewed I might add) , you answer my question about your (legal) solution to the NI protocol problem by advocating a solution which is against the rules inherent in an international agreement which is backed by most of the countries with which UK is seeking to set up international (  oven ready?) trade deals .

The concept inherent in your "solution" implies the return of myriad border posts along the 375 mile border in Ireland , which would replace the few needed at the ports into Northern Ireland . Practical --NO . Legal--No. Daft--Yes. Clutching at straws .

Julian Smith this morning appeared from nowhere , thank goodness, asserting that the NI protocol has benefits for NI . As one of the few competent Conservatives around , with a great ( but short) regard by all parties here ( possibly except the 2 ultra unionist voices) it was refreshing to hear some truth from a prominent conservative . Guess that was why he got the chop after he had managed to get the Stormont Executive back in harness after 4 previous NI ministers had failed dismally.

Business people here want minor changes to some aspects of the protocol , but economic indicators apparently show that overall the protocol has not affected NI adversely , which could have been the case consistent with the effect of Brexit on the rest of the UK .

The ultra unionist view that the NI protocol affects their Britishness is a political invention , designed to deflect voters minds away from faux pas after faux pas committed by them , particularly in relation to Brexit stance when there was a substantial majority across NI in favour of remain . Despite that then largest party telling their supporters that Brexit was a good idea . The NI protocol is a logical solution inherent within the hard Brexit deal , any child could compute it given the parameters extant . But not the DUP and friends , one wonders is there a brain among them.

Britishness could be defined as having a British passport . It is my sole passport at the moment , although when world travel returns for us covid avoiders we will probably apply , largely on the grounds of friendlier travel within Europe . . On the other hand in recent years lots of Unionist friends of ours joined the rush for Irish passports , as they are entitled to . What , if anything , does that imply ? Ian Paisley senior would not have allowed any of his supporters to touch an Irish passport in case they were smit  , never mind possess one .
Report bigpoppapump May 13, 2022 10:27 AM BST
people who wanted to get Brexit done, don't actually want Brexit to be applied IN THE WAY THEY SAID WAS OVEN READY AND WON AN ELECTION ON.

couldn't make it up.

when do these chancers get held to account?
Report Kelly May 13, 2022 12:04 PM BST
DUP failing to join in and help form a badly needed executive in NI .

Jeffrey Donaldson getting elected under false pretences , obviously no intention of taking his MLA position in Stormont . Then nominating Emma Pengelly in his place . She was a candidate in the Belfast south constituency election to Westminster in 2019 . This was always a safe Unionist seat since 1922 through to recently.

Thankfully South Belfast voters supported a candidate who was a strong advocate of staying in the EU , and gave a thumbs down to the DUP who had campaigned for Brexit in that period.

Claire Hanna ( SDLP) :        27079 votes
Emma "Little" Pengelly( DUP): 11678 votes

One of the biggest majorities UK wide ( 15041 votes) .

The "Little" element in her election material refers to her maiden name . Her father was loyalist terrorist Noel Little , arrested for arms trafficking in the late 1980's . Pandering to the ultra loyalist vote ? If she disagreed with his activity why did she not just have Emma Pengelly on her election ticket ?

Jeffrey just on now , having walked out of forming an executive , shedding crocodile tears about how they want to get an executive up and running .  Blaming the EU for everything , when it is actually Boris who shafted him and his party bigtime .  You couldn't make it up , but the DUP followers are like sheep when anyone waves a flag .
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 2:02 PM BST
Is it correct the dup went in today to sign the roll just to collect their wages?

Could be a huge backlash here,people struggling and this carry on?
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:16 PM BST
Oh , thanks for the reminder loyalhoncho
Of course it is not only the last 40 years that the IRA
terrorists have been bombing and murdering innocent
men , women and children in N Ireland - but for 100 years
And don’t talk nonsense about civil rights , everyone
in N Ireland had equal rights and as part of Great Britain and NI
were fortunate to live in a country with more freedoms and
opportunity than any other country in the world
That is the reality .
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:18 PM BST
By the way lapsy if the DUP are docked wages
everyone’s wages should be - Stormonts closed
Report Whisperingdeath May 13, 2022 3:19 PM BST
You are a clown lfc which is ok because people can laugh at you and also with you

but sometimes the rubbish you produce is really odious.
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:24 PM BST
The reality today is the dup went and signed the roll to collect wages with no intention of doing the job of serving the people.

They are lying,the British govt are lying with the reasons for this,the majority of the people want a functioning govt to help sort out bills,healthcare etc and are happy with the Protocol'

The people of NI are getting shafted by the poison of the dup and an incompetent British govt.
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:24 PM BST
what’s wrong wd , don’t like the truth ,  your ears too sensitive ?
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:26 PM BST
Lapsy did Sinn Fein collect their wages when they walked out of Stormont -
for three years ?
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:30 PM BST
Did they go in to sign a roll just to collect their wages,no,they didn't,that is scummy.
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:31 PM BST
Did they collect their wages and not attend Stormont - for 3 years ?

Now I’m getting tired of this hypocrisy from nationalists
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:34 PM BST
Did the dup? yes they did,the difference is they went in to sign today for that.
Report Whisperingdeath May 13, 2022 3:35 PM BST
Truth lfc?

The truth is usually the idiocy you write is so stupid as to be mildly amusing. I think most people cannot believe anybody can really be as stupid as you purport to be by your ramblings. Ordinarily one would think your your musing are those of a sad old man who wants some company but your continued lies, ignorance or both on this subject can only draw the conclusion that you are not a very nice human being and that saddens me.

Good day.
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:39 PM BST
wd - if you are going to continue to be so abusive I won’t be taking
any notice or replying to anything you might say in future

Good bye
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:41 PM BST
It is sad,the British Govt told Ian paisley jun that they signed the Protocol to worm out of it and you Lfc are defending that.
It is sad for democracy,the people of Northern Ireland and sad that the UK themselves are actually doing this.
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:41 PM BST
Lapsy Sinn Fein didn’t have to take their pay - for 3 years when they walked out

They did ..  now stop talking nonsense
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:43 PM BST
Actually I think it’s sad that the south of Ireland and the EU are not prepared to do their own work
That’s sad
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:44 PM BST
The pay is just a small point in the scheme of things,i did mention it however.
The other points above are what you are defending,shame on you.
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:46 PM BST
I’m not bothered about the pay - but you mentioned it in relation to the DUP
And tried to defend Sinn Fein with a ludicrous excuse
That’s hypocritical

Shame on you
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:47 PM BST
You don’t see that do you ?

That’s a big part of the problem right there .
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:47 PM BST
Start rambling about 50 years ago,it is all you have,you are a sad bitter old man.
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:51 PM BST
Lapsy I think it is you that is rambling
I’m not bothered about 50 years ago
That seems to be your problem
So I suggest you try and keep up
Report lapsy pa May 13, 2022 3:52 PM BST
3.16pm 'that is the reality'
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:54 PM BST
Now , if you can stop being so sad and bitter that might also help you to not be so hypocritical
That’s best
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:57 PM BST
Yes lapsy there you go again
Try and tell honcho - and yourself that’s history
Now come up to date
Report lfc1971 May 13, 2022 3:59 PM BST
Now I think you accept you were being hyocritical in relation to the DUP, good
Let’s move on
Report Whisperingdeath May 13, 2022 6:16 PM BST
lapsy,

I really think you ought to pay more due care and attention when quoting your 3:16's!


lfc 3.16

don’t talk nonsense about civil rights , everyone
in N Ireland had equal rights and as part of Great Britain and NI

were fortunate to live in a country with more freedoms and
opportunity than any other country in the world
That is the reality .


Not to be confused with John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

Contrast that to the Very Reverend Ian Paisley who will hopefully be burning in hellfire as we speak for his hate crimes and sins against God!
Report Whisperingdeath May 13, 2022 8:58 PM BST
Now did God have any daughters?
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